Let's Stop Requiring Advanced Math, A New Book Argues

[muwarrior69]

Hmmm, what do you all think.

http://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2016/03/02/468251401/lets-stop-requiring-advanced-math-a-new-book-argues

[GGGG]

As long as there are alternatives that require people to work with numbers, and numeracy looks as good as any, than I am fine with it.  I work with a couple of people who have college degrees, and therefore undoubtedly passed a college math course, who don't understand the basic concept of how you balance a checkbook. 

[CTWarrior]

As long as there are alternatives that require people to work with numbers, and numeracy looks as good as any, than I am fine with it.  I work with a couple of people who have college degrees, and therefore undoubtedly passed a college math course, who don't understand the basic concept of how you balance a checkbook.

I think basic Algebra, Algebra I in high school, is used more than you think and something that pretty much everyone should be proficient in.  That is plenty.  My wife is a very smart woman (she's awesome at Jeopardy), but I remember trying to help her get ready for the math portion of the graduate school exam and being stunned at how difficult it was to get her to understand basic concepts.  She's a wonderful speech therapist now and it would have been a shame if her inability to master math caused her to have to do something else.

[Benny B]

I think basic Algebra, Algebra I in high school, is used more than you think and something that pretty much everyone should be proficient in.  That is plenty.  My wife is a very smart woman (she's awesome at Jeopardy), but I remember trying to help her get ready for the math portion of the graduate school exam and being stunned at how difficult it was to get her to understand basic concepts.  She's a wonderful speech therapist now and it would have been a shame if her inability to master math caused her to have to do something else.

This.  The concept of a variable needs to be taught and understood as it has application beyond the world of mathematics. 

Geometry, trig, fx, calc/discrete, etc... all of that can be left for those who want to go into fields where such is required.

[ChicosBailBonds]

My son in AP Calculus right now, would agree with this statement.  He has never hated a class more in his life and see no usage for it in the future with what he wants to do.

[🏀]

Geometry and Algebra absolutely need to be taught to everyone. I think even Trig.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Math -  As an Engineering major I was just a few classes short of a math minor.  That being said Algebra & Geometry & Trigonometry are definitely used in the workplace and definitely need to be known.  If by Advanced Math he means Calculus & Differential Equations then he has some merit else his argument is extreme weak sauce.  I have never used or even seen Calculus or Differential Equations outside of what I took in high school & college.  One math class I ended up taking "on accident" is Statistics and they may be one of the most useful math classes I ever took.  I use all the time.

"On accident" - I took Calculus my Junior year of high school and Senior year took Calculus 3 across the street from my high school at the University of New Haven.  Like an idiot I waited until after my Senior year to take the Calc 1 AP Test and did little to no prep before the test.  Whatever I got, Marquette would only allow me to waive Calc 1, but my adviser never explained that it meant I still needed to make up 4 credits (Calc1 + a Math Lab) before graduation.  Before Senior year, I had a new adviser who happened to grow up near me in Connecticut.  He recommended I take Statistics and that he'd give me an Independent Study Project for 1 credit.  He needed some organizational help on some research he was doing. 

[jficke13]

I second having geometry as a requirement. The high school level stuff is not that complicated. I build furniture/do woodworking for a side gig, and it's the math I use the most by far.

[muwarrior69]

As a science major it was required that I take 4 semesters of a foreign language when I was at MU. What is good for the goose should be good for the gander. I guess we can all complain about a "rounded" education.

[keefe]

Differential Equations 

A world without Diffy Qs would not be a world worth living in...

[StillAWarrior]

We were talking about this at work the other day.  I went to a public school in Colorado where the "normal" (i.e, not honors or accelerated) math track was Algebra 1 (9th); Geometry (10th); Algebra 2 (11th).  I moved my senior year and don't recall what they taught that year -- perhaps Calculus.  I went to Guam where the senior year math class was called "Advanced Math" but it was anything but.  Mostly review from my prior year.  So my basic math education stopped after Algebra 2.  I had a stats class at Marquette.

I literally have no idea what Calculus, Trig, Differential Equations, etc. even are. None.  My kids are doing math that is completely beyond my level of education.  It's strange.  I'm not sure how I feel about the proposition in the linked article, but somehow I've managed to make do with my limited math knowledge.  I do think, however, that I'm fairly competent in "numeracy."

PS - Thank God my wife is a mechanical engineer/math minor so there is someone in the house who knows what the hell she's doing in math.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

I liked business stats 1 so much, I took it twice...

But, once the lightbulb went on, I loved stats class.  agree with probably the most useful math class.

[mu_hilltopper]

The educational process K-12, Bachelors, Masters .. is riddled with topics that students will barely master and forget quickly, skills never to be used again.

If I added up all the time I spent doing things like .. calc and stats (which I loved), art, chemistry, history, religion, Spanish, and frankly my time in endless English classes analyzing some stupid book and regurgitating some inanity about what the author was trying to say .. I'd have total up a mountain of wasted time.

..... but it all made me who I am today.

[reinko]

If K-12 taught Microsoft Excel @ a decent level, would make my job of hiring folks a crap load easier. 

#TEAMCONCATENATE

[Benny B]

I second having geometry as a requirement. The high school level stuff is not that complicated. I build furniture/do woodworking for a side gig, and it's the math I use the most by far.

But to CTW's earlier point... how does geometry play any role in training a social worker?  Or a chef?  Or an accountant?  Or a surgical technician?  Or a hotel manager?  Or a bus driver? 

If you're going to be an engineer or do any sort of building/construction, then by all means, you should take geometry.  But heck, I could teach someone who only had a third grade education what a 90 degree angle is - even if he spoke a different language - and it would take me less than a couple minutes to do.  I highly doubt the majority of electricians bending conduit or framers building roofs are relying on the geometry they learned in high school... what they need to know they learned on the job.

[Plaque Lives Matter!]

If K-12 taught Microsoft Excel @ a decent level, would make my job of hiring folks a crap load easier. 

#TEAMCONCATENATE

Seriously. When attending Marquette career fairs on campus, the thing I stress to prospective candidates over and over is to learn and master basic excel functions. The difference of interns/entry level I have encountered who can vs. can't is astounding.

[brandx]

If K-12 taught Microsoft Excel @ a decent level, would make my job of hiring folks a crap load easier. 

#TEAMCONCATENATE

Any spreadsheet or database software training would be invaluable to kids coming out of HS. Basic life skills in the 21st century.

I think basic math rote learning is necessary in the early grades the way it used to be done. If I had a dollar for every time I figured out answers in my head in seconds while others were busy scribbling .... I guess I'd have a lot of dollars.

By the teen years, it should be math skills that are useful in normal daily life. Let the math lovers get into Trig, Calculus, statistics, etc.

[warriorchick]

,

[mu_hilltopper]

Take that, brandx.

[brandx]

Take that, brandx.

Love to see what she said. I know I'm one of her faves.

[keefe]

..... but it all made me who I am today.

So studying Beowulf and the Miller's Tale is behind the genius that is Scoop?

[warriorchick]

Love to see what she said. I know I'm one of her faves.

I was tired last night and I accidentally quoted you instead of Heisy in the Henry's Ankle thread.   So my response was how Matty V works his a$$ off for us, which of course, makes no sense here .

[jficke13]

But to CTW's earlier point... how does geometry play any role in training a social worker?  Or a chef?  Or an accountant?  Or a surgical technician?  Or a hotel manager?  Or a bus driver? 

If you're going to be an engineer or do any sort of building/construction, then by all means, you should take geometry.  But heck, I could teach someone who only had a third grade education what a 90 degree angle is - even if he spoke a different language - and it would take me less than a couple minutes to do.  I highly doubt the majority of electricians bending conduit or framers building roofs are relying on the geometry they learned in high school... what they need to know they learned on the job.

Having a broad depth of knowledge is more than preparation for employment. Having some background in geometry is not going to help a social worker, but about 0 of the classes I took in law school help me be a lawyer. So why not just stop educating people entirely? Just have them pick a career and go straight to on-the-job training?

There's something to having had to engage these subjects that you don't use on a daily basis. A rudimentary knowledge of math and science might help us root out the actively harmful health fads, or lunatic-fringe conspiracy theories, etc.

[warriorchick]

but about 0 of the classes I took in law school help me be a lawyer.

Note to self....find out which law school jficke went to and forbid offspring from attending it...it apparently teaches nothing about the law...

[jficke13]

Note to self....find out which law school jficke went to and forbid offspring from attending it...it apparently teaches nothing about the law...

Marquette.

Law school is just organized hazing, legal vocabulary-learning, and a way for the legal professional cartel to extort those who wish to join.

That being said, it really wouldn't be a bad idea to forbid your offspring from attending law school generally speaking.

[warriorchick]

Marquette.

Law school is just organized hazing, legal vocabulary-learning, and a way for the legal professional cartel to extort those who wish to join.

That being said, it really wouldn't be a bad idea to forbid your offspring from attending law school generally speaking.

Done and done.

[Benny B]

Marquette.

Law school is just organized hazing, legal vocabulary-learning, and a way for the legal professional cartel to extort those who wish to join.

That being said, it really wouldn't be a bad idea to forbid your offspring from attending law school generally speaking.

Law school is merely a three-year prep session for the bar exam (which, in Marquette's case, you can see the irony if you plan to practice in WI).