Long Form on Jae

[BM1090]

I agree with this analysis.

Shocking.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Shocking.

This just in, Ners and MU fan in NY are the same person.

[Silkk the Shaka]

Loose Cannon & Taint - totally agree on Carter. He's got the goods.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Reinhardt?  Not sure I understand your statement.  My view is that he can contribute, yet that he wasn't at a position of need - AT ALL - assuming JJJ is staying.

JJJ and Reinhardt don't play the same position AT ALL. If anyone's playing time is hurt by Reinhardt, it's Sandy's

[naginiF]

Regarding JJJ:  Yes, I am still surprised he is at MU.  Think he's a real talent.  I feel Wojo's had far too short of leash on JJJ.  However, I will say that to Wojo's credit it did appear that JJJ was playing harder on both ends the last 1/4 of the year which I'd have to believe was borne out of JJJ's frustration with his playing time - which Wojo helped create.  That aside, I think somehow you have to figure out how to reach a player, other than just benching him during games - when the player is clearly one of your best players and most dynamic playmaker.

Classic, it's like you never left.  And your comments about TC playing 30+ last year sets you up to complain about Wojo if Howard is a shockingly mature 17 yr old, Rowsey earns more minutes than you deem worthy, or TC has an off 2 week stretch as 19yr olds are apt to have. 

I like the transition from DeezNuts to Taint because it means you are following an anatomical path to the ultimate honest user name of A$$hole in your next on-line life.  I'm puzzled by N'ers though because i don't know what it references, care to share any insight?

[Taint]

JJJ and Reinhardt don't play the same position AT ALL. If anyone's playing time is hurt by Reinhardt, it's Sandy's

This would be a good thing.  Hope you are right.  Perhaps we can start 3 wings who all like to dominate the ball - Haanif, JJJ and Reinhardt - yet I wonder if there will be enough shots to go around in that lineup? 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

This would be a good thing.  Hope you are right.  Perhaps we can start 3 wings who all like to dominate the ball - Haanif, JJJ and Reinhardt - yet I wonder if there will be enough shots to go around in that lineup?

If players are worried about that, they are not good teammates and I hope wojo it's able to coach that out of them

[Taint]

Classic, it's like you never left.  And your comments about TC playing 30+ last year sets you up to complain about Wojo if Howard is a shockingly mature 17 yr old, Rowsey earns more minutes than you deem worthy, or TC has an off 2 week stretch as 19yr olds are apt to have. 

I like the transition from DeezNuts to Taint because it means you are following an anatomical path to the ultimate honest user name of A$$hole in your next on-line life.  I'm puzzled by N'ers though because i don't know what it references, care to share any insight?

Let's talk basketball. Last year it was evident to MOST that the team played much better with Carter running the point, and that Cheatham was best off the ball.  Yet, repeatedly, Wojo continued to try to make Cheatham the PG.  Why?  How can it be that Sandy Cohen and JJJ played the same amount of minutes for the year - and Duane Wilson roughly 20% minutes than JJJ?

Can't win if you don't arrange your available talent in its best form.  Next year?  If Howard and or Rowsey show they are better than Carter - I have NO problem with Wojo playing either one of them ahead of Carter.  But considering we saw Wojo start both Juan Anderson and freshman Sandy Cohen ahead of Deonte Burton?  Well.  I wish I had more confidence in how Wojo uses his roster.

But hey - How dare anyone question Wojo or question "the process."  95% of this board predicted NIT or better for last year's team - and we didn't even sniff the NCAA much less make the NIT.  That in and of itself should warrant some scrutiny of the job turned in thus far.

And btw - Sincerely, sorry if my opinions make me an a$$hole in your world.  This is a message board - it shouldn't arouse anger by virtue of someone voicing a different opinion than your own.

[GGGG]

Ners, no one has ever said that Wojo shouldn't be questioned.  You are just very absolute on your opinions while others give more leeway to the guy running the program.

Carter for instance by and large was the best PG option.  However there were times in games were he got a little loose and Cheatham was a better option because he turned the ball over less.  JJJ was very good toward the end of the year, but was still struggling with playing both ends.  Glad that Wojo finally got through to him.

[Dawson Rental]

What the hell are you talking about. I know for a fact that Sam Worthen and Oliver Lee both said that sharing a room at McCormick and having access to Chez Saga three times a day was payment enough for their services.

So they thought that going to class on top of all that was just being greedy?  That would explain some things.

[brewcity77]

This whole "Sandy vs Jajuan minutes argument" is just ridiculous. Looking at the balance of the season is pointless.

Early on, Sandy was earning minutes with great defense. After Jajuan sat for 'Nova, he turned it around. Played better defense and found his shot. And with Jajuan turning it around (whole Sandy concurrently declined) the minutes reflected it.

Look at their minutes the last 16 games. Jajuan played starter minutes, 28.4 mpg while Sandy played just 16.1 mpg.

So, tell me again how Wojo is giving Sandy equal minutes...

[TSmith34, Inc.]

This just in, Ners and MU fan in NY are the same person.

No, the old unholy pair of Ners and Texas Western.  No matter how many times they are banned they just keep coming back.

[rocket surgeon]

  you guys are all caught up in dividing up playing times and rightly so, but one can never have enough solid contributors-i.e. a good problem to have.  a good coach, as i think wojo will become.  he now has his own recruits in his system. he should be able to get these guys playing off each other in a good competitive team way. reading one of those articles on jae, the thing that stood out for buzz when he was recruiting him,  he had his worst game?  so what did jae do?  did he mope and pout on the bench?  nope-he became the teams biggest fan-that's what we need from all of the guys, playing or not.   

   but back to the point i wanted to make-some of these projected playing times may all go for chit because of all the variables.  it's a long, physical season ripe for injuries, team issues, academics, family issues, etc.  really looking forward to this season.  this should be fun(i hope)

[GGGG]

  you guys are all caught up in dividing up playing times and rightly so, but one can never have enough solid contributors-i.e. a good problem to have.  a good coach, as i think wojo will become.  he now has his own recruits in his system. he should be able to get these guys playing off each other in a good competitive team way. reading one of those articles on jae, the thing that stood out for buzz when he was recruiting him,  he had his worst game?  so what did jae do?  did he mope and pout on the bench?  nope-he became the teams biggest fan-that's what we need from all of the guys, playing or not.   

   but back to the point i wanted to make-some of these projected playing times may all go for chit because of all the variables.  it's a long, physical season ripe for injuries, team issues, academics, family issues, etc.  really looking forward to this season.  this should be fun(i hope)

I agree with this. 

[MUfan12]

sorry if my opinions make me an a$$hole

I mean, you were DeezNuts, now Taint, so that would be the next step, ai'na?

 

[rocket surgeon]

This whole "Sandy vs Jajuan minutes argument" is just ridiculous. Looking at the balance of the season is pointless.

Early on, Sandy was earning minutes with great defense. After Jajuan sat for 'Nova, he turned it around. Played better defense and found his shot. And with Jajuan turning it around (whole Sandy concurrently declined) the minutes reflected it.

Look at their minutes the last 16 games. Jajuan played starter minutes, 28.4 mpg while Sandy played just 16.1 mpg.

So, tell me again how Wojo is giving Sandy equal minutes...

maybe i'm missed this discussion, but didn't sandy's drop in playing time also coincide with being suspended for a game for a "team" thingy?

[naginiF]

I mean, you were DeezNuts, now Taint, so that would be the next step, ai'na?

 

and i did point out an anatomical progression.  I think N'ers is interpreting my not understanding what 'N'ers' is as being angry and just didn't understand the anatomical progression.

Also, i completely agree with Rocket's last 2 posts - that's what i get for straying off the politics board

[Taint]

  you guys are all caught up in dividing up playing times and rightly so, but one can never have enough solid contributors-i.e. a good problem to have.  a good coach, as i think wojo will become.  he now has his own recruits in his system. he should be able to get these guys playing off each other in a good competitive team way. reading one of those articles on jae, the thing that stood out for buzz when he was recruiting him,  he had his worst game?  so what did jae do?  did he mope and pout on the bench?  nope-he became the teams biggest fan-that's what we need from all of the guys, playing or not.   

   but back to the point i wanted to make-some of these projected playing times may all go for chit because of all the variables.  it's a long, physical season ripe for injuries, team issues, academics, family issues, etc.  really looking forward to this season.  this should be fun(i hope)

Good post.

I mean, you were DeezNuts, now Taint, so that would be the next step, ai'na?

 

Good point

and i did point out an anatomical progression.  I think N'ers is interpreting my not understanding what 'N'ers' is as being angry and just didn't understand the anatomical progression.

Also, i completely agree with Rocket's last 2 posts - that's what i get for straying off the politics board

Nag - I did understand the anatomical progression, and applaud you on a clever and well conceived post.  Just wanted to clarify, however, that because I happen to be skeptcial of Wojo THUS FAR - doesn't make me an a$$hole.    

[Taint]

This whole "Sandy vs Jajuan minutes argument" is just ridiculous. Looking at the balance of the season is pointless.

Early on, Sandy was earning minutes with great defense. After Jajuan sat for 'Nova, he turned it around. Played better defense and found his shot. And with Jajuan turning it around (whole Sandy concurrently declined) the minutes reflected it.

Look at their minutes the last 16 games. Jajuan played starter minutes, 28.4 mpg while Sandy played just 16.1 mpg.

So, tell me again how Wojo is giving Sandy equal minutes...

Well, I happen to see the game against Butler on March 5th where we got destroyed by Butler and JJJ got 20 minutes and Sandy got 30.  Never mind, of course, that JJJ had an O-Rating of 149 in that game and had 9 points on 3 of 4 shooting.

Furthermore, JJJ broke 30 minutes exactly 8 out of 16 games after the Villanova game you reference. 

A CONSISTENT lineup of Traci, JJJ, Haanif, Henry and Luke would have done very good things last season.  Yanking guys in and out of the lineup on a consistent basis - Traci and JJJ - hurt the team's performance tremendously last year, again, IMO. 

Best teams and coaches develop a solid 8-9 man rotation with generally consistent substitution patterns - and rarely have emotionally reactive substitutions.

[brewcity77]

Well, I happen to see the game against Butler on March 5th where we got destroyed by Butler and JJJ got 20 minutes and Sandy got 30.  Never mind, of course, that JJJ had an O-Rating of 149 in that game and had 9 points on 3 of 4 shooting.

Was that the only game you watched after Valentine's Day? Picking the statistical outlier and trying to use it as proof of an overarching point is foolish.

Furthermore, JJJ broke 30 minutes exactly 8 out of 16 games after the Villanova game you reference.

He did...which is more times than any Marquette player other than Henry or Haanif. What's your point?

A CONSISTENT lineup of Traci, JJJ, Haanif, Henry and Luke would have done very good things last season.  Yanking guys in and out of the lineup on a consistent basis - Traci and JJJ - hurt the team's performance tremendously last year, again, IMO.

Those were the five most frequent guys on the court by season's end. What more were we going to do? We were a middle of the road team in the league. You think those guys getting 35+ mpg would have somehow changed that?

Best teams and coaches develop a solid 8-9 man rotation with generally consistent substitution patterns - and rarely have emotionally reactive substitutions.

Which is what we had. Our rotation was Luke, Henry, Jajuan, Haanif, Traci, and Duane all getting starting level minutes, with Cohen, Wally, and Matt contributing varying amounts off the bench.

You really seem to be making some big argumentative talking point out of an issue that doesn't exist. If it did, wouldn't JJ have transferred one of the 734 times you tried to play that card?

[brewcity77]

I'm puzzled by N'ers though because i don't know what it references, care to share any insight?

It was supposed to be BoNers, but he hated Wisconsin's coach so much he shortened it to Ners.

[Taint]

Was that the only game you watched after Valentine's Day? Picking the statistical outlier and trying to use it as proof of an overarching point is foolish.

He did...which is more times than any Marquette player other than Henry or Haanif. What's your point?

Those were the five most frequent guys on the court by season's end. What more were we going to do? We were a middle of the road team in the league. You think those guys getting 35+ mpg would have somehow changed that?

Which is what we had. Our rotation was Luke, Henry, Jajuan, Haanif, Traci, and Duane all getting starting level minutes, with Cohen, Wally, and Matt contributing varying amounts off the bench.

You really seem to be making some big argumentative talking point out of an issue that doesn't exist. If it did, wouldn't JJ have transferred one of the 734 times you tried to play that card?

The issue did exist.  My point is there was NO reason JJJ shouldn't have been playing 30 minutes per game ALL year.  No reason he shouldn't have been playing 30 in all 16 of the games we were discussing. We can also look to the Creighton game at home where we lost by 3 and Wojo had JJJ on the bench for basically the whole 2nd half.  He played 17 minutes in that game.  Cohen played 20.

Just because Wojo primarily played 8-9 guys does NOT mean he had a clearly defined rotation.  He didn't.  We had various starting lineups.  Mass substitution, with no consistent pattern.  And RARELY did the lineup of Carter, Cheatham, JJJ, Henry and Luke get to play together for LONG stretches of play.  By my research, that lineup was started only 2 times all year. 

It is nearly impossible to get any kind of consistent performance out of a team when there is virtually NO consistency to the lineup and rotation, and frequent substitution. 

[GGGG]

Just because Wojo primarily played 8-9 guys does NOT mean he had a clearly defined rotation.  He didn't.  We had various starting lineups.  Mass substitution, with no consistent pattern.  And RARELY did the lineup of Carter, Cheatham, JJJ, Henry and Luke get to play together for LONG stretches of play.  By my research, that lineup was started only 2 times all year. 

The bolded is absolutely not true.  Rotations changed at times, but it was quite consistent from about the time conference play started.  Adjustments were made in the second half based on performance, foul trouble, etc.  But by and large the same starting five were the same starting five.

I do not recall many instances of mass substitution either.

No team is going to have the same starting five, with the same players subbing in and out and the same exact times all season. 

[Taint]

The bolded is absolutely not true.  Rotations changed at times, but it was quite consistent from about the time conference play started.  Adjustments were made in the second half based on performance, foul trouble, etc.  But by and large the same starting five were the same starting five.

I do not recall many instances of mass substitution either.

No team is going to have the same starting five, with the same players subbing in and out and the same exact times all season.

I disagree  Our starting lineup (and lineup) was all over the place last season.  A quick review of Ken Pom's Top 20 teams, and their Most Frequent Lineups over the Past 5 Games statistic reveals the Most Frequent Lineup combination was used ~27% of the time.  Marquette?  10.9%  And, JJJ was not in that lineup - it comprised:  Traci, Duane, Haanif, Henry and Luke.

[GGGG]

I disagree  Our starting lineup (and lineup) was all over the place last season.  A quick review of Ken Pom's Top 20 teams, and their Most Frequent Lineups over the Past 5 Games statistic reveals the Most Frequent Lineup combination was used ~27% of the time.  Marquette?  10.9%  And, JJJ was not in that lineup - it comprised:  Traci, Duane, Haanif, Henry and Luke.

Past 5 games?  For Marquette that included two blowout losses.  That is going to screw with playing time decisions consistently.

For most top 20 teams that includes tournaments.  They are going to be much more consistent in those games.