NCAA Officials: Expansion To 96 Teams 'Will Happen,' Likely in '11, No More NIT

[chapman]

+1,786,535.6

[TallTitan34]

Chicos, you can't possibly believe this wouldn't take away from the regular season.

Part of the fun this year was watching Marquette battle for a NCAA spot.  Those three OT wins on the road. The Louisville blowout.  part of the excitement of all of those games was watching Marquette battle for their NCAA lives.  With 96 teams making the dance, the outcome of those games wouldn't have mattered.

I like not knowing if MU will make the tournament.  I like having MU fight to get in.  The day Northwestern makes the NCAA tournament is the day that it means nothing to be in the big dance.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Sorry Talltitan, I don't think it takes away from it.

I thought we were about competing for Big East championships....if so, then why would it take away from that goal?

Since it's also about seeding, why wouldn't you play your best all year long to get the best seed possible?

Are you suggesting that we just go into a season on cruise control?

As several of us have done, we looked back at the past 20 years and with the  inclusion of 32 more teams, I only see one additional year we would have gotten in.

So we'll have to agree to disagree....the regular season isn't meaningless in college football despite having 50% of their teams in the post season.  It won't be here either with only 27% being invited.

[TallTitan34]

Are you suggesting that we just go into a season on cruise control?

Yes, I think several teams will go on cruise control because they know whatever happens, that they will be in the tournament.  Coaches will mail it in as well.

A team slightly above .500 doesn't deserve to be in if that's the criteria. 

In the end though it will make money and that's all that matters.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Yes, I think several teams will go on cruise control because they know whatever happens, that they will be in the tournament.  Coaches will mail it in as well.

A team slightly above .500 doesn't deserve to be in if that's the criteria. 

In the end though it will make money and that's all that matters.

I think a team that does that will not be rewarded for the NCAAs and risks not making it.  Remember, my rule would be you have to be above .500 in your conference, not just overall.  This expansion is largely going to help the non BCS conferences so the BCS teams better play hard to the end or they won't be making it in.

I don't see teams "taking it easy", I just don't.  When you're talking about putting your post season lives into the hands of a committee, why on earth would you do this?  It's one thing to put it in cruise control in the NBA when you have clinched a playoff spot based on a certain record in comparison to your peers.  Quite a different thing when you're trying to convince 8 people to not only get you into the tournament but also put you in a high enough seeding that you can do some damage.  I don't think a recipe for success in that case would be to just put it in cruise control....do you?

[MerrittsMustache]

Yes, the play will be better.  For several reasons.  The NIT is a letdown, teams have cashed it in and some don't even bother to show up.

Plus, if they do this right, some of those teams in the NIT currently won't even get a shot at this thing....UCONN, UNC, etc.  It will be the 23, 24, 25 win teams from smaller conferences that will be out to prove they belong and will bring everything they can in a national tournament.

Yes, because if there's any organization that protects the little guys and doesn't favor the big guys, it's the NCAA 

[TallTitan34]

So a 8-10 Big East teams with quality non-conference and conference wins and no bad losses would be left out of a field of 96 because they were a game under .500?

I don't think that would happen considering 7-11 UConn would have got in the field of 65 if they won 2 or 3 Big East Tournament games.

Would 9-9 Seton Hall be left out of the 96 team field this year?

[mu_hilltopper]

Yes, I think several teams will go on cruise control because they know whatever happens, that they will be in the tournament.  Coaches will mail it in as well.

I don't buy that one bit.  Coaches are motivated to win, always.  They'll be strongly interested in winning titles, improving seeds, and simply adding to their win count.   All coaches and players are competitive in nature.  They like winning.  Losing sucks.  Those 40 minutes are what is important.

The only item I could see happening is on the player level, either by resting a player more, or not pushing an injured player if a bid was assured and seeding wasn't going to drop significantly.

The pressure for a bid will be shifted down 25+ teams, sure.  But the pressure to assure a 1st-round bye will be there.  The pressure to improve the seed, to have an easier path, will always exist.  Those who are slated for a #9-10-11 seed, will be working hard to get an #8.  Those who are around an #8 will be working hard to get a #7 or 6, and just keep their first round bye.

There's 334 D1 teams.  Do 250+ of them go on cruise control TODAY?  Hell, 90% of them don't have a chance for a bid the first day of the season.  Are they all just playing out the string?  Hell no.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Yes, because if there's any organization that protects the little guys and doesn't favor the big guys, it's the NCAA  

I really think you misunderstand what the NCAA is and who they represent based on your comments.  Most of the NCAA IS the little guys

[4everwarriors]

  The day Northwestern makes the NCAA tournament is the day that it means nothing to be in the big dance.


[/quote]


I keep telling you dudes not to sell the Wildcats short. This is not your father's Northwestern team. Carmody has it going on. Coble was out all year, yet they beat ND, Purdue, as well as Illinois. Last season, Michigan State, Wisconsin,  and Florida State felt the 'Cats' bite.
BTW, if you haven't seen Drew Crawford play, you're missing out on the Big Ten freshman of the year who could play for any team in the country.

[MerrittsMustache]

I really think you misunderstand what the NCAA is and who they represent based on your comments.  Most of the NCAA IS the little guys

So that's why so many deserving mid-majors get into the Tournament and why undefeated "non-BCS" teams get to play for the National Championship in football.

Just because it's mostly little guys doesn't mean they protect the little guys. The NCAA is all about money.

More big name schools = more money. Period.

[MarquetteDano]

I keep telling you dudes not to sell the Wildcats short. This is not your father's Northwestern team. Carmody has it going on. Coble was out all year, yet they beat ND, Purdue, as well as Illinois. Last season, Michigan State, Wisconsin,  and Florida State felt the 'Cats' bite.
BTW, if you haven't seen Drew Crawford play, you're missing out on the Big Ten freshman of the year who could play for any team in the country.

Agreed.  If everyone is healthy next year, Northwestern has a decent shot to make the dance.

[Moonboots]

Agreed.  If everyone is healthy next year, Northwestern has a decent shot to make the dance.

If there's 96 schools.

[ChicosBailBonds]

So that's why so many deserving mid-majors get into the Tournament and why undefeated "non-BCS" teams get to play for the National Championship in football.

Just because it's mostly little guys doesn't mean they protect the little guys. The NCAA is all about money.

More big name schools = more money. Period.

Again, why do you guys bring in the BCS?  Every time you do you show that you're not understanding the situation.  The BCS is NOT CONTROLLED BY THE NCAA.  AGAIN, THE BCS IS NOT CONTROLLED BY THE NCAA.

Secondly, the NCAA is made up of universities, most of which are small.  Division III, Division II, much of Division I.   Those are their constituents.

The expansion of the NCAA Tournament will allow for MORE....repeat....MORE of the smaller schools to get in.  So yes, they are going to be taking care of those schools.  

Now, do the big boys drive much of this?  Of course.  But much of the money you are complaining about is driven by the CONFERENCES, not the NCAA.  Your anger is placed in the wrong place and by reading many of the comments here, it is clear that people do not understand who runs the BCS (not the NCAA), who controls the NCAA Tournament (the NCAA) and where the television money goes for most college sports (the CONFERENCES, not the NCAA).  The NCAA is not the bogeyman you are making them out to be, you need to re-direct who controls MOST of the money if that is your concern.

[GOMU1104]

Chicos...Didnt this all start with the NCAA sending out an RFP to the networks to determine how valuable an expanded 68 or 96 team tournament is to them?

If the NCAA didn't/doesn't like what they hear back from the networks, wont they just keep the deal with CBS that pays them a significant amount over the next 3 years?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Chicos...Didnt this all start with the NCAA sending out an RFP to the networks to determine how valuable an expanded 68 or 96 team tournament is to them?

If the NCAA didn't/doesn't like what they hear back from the networks, wont they just keep the deal with CBS that pays them a significant amount over the next 3 years?

Correct.  The NCAA controls the television contract for the NCAA Tournament for men's basketball as they are responsible for running NCAA championships.  (The other contracts which many posters here seem to be considerably confused on, are not run by the NCAA but controlled by the conferences, the BCS, etc).

At any rate, there is an out clause in the current deal where the NCAA could void the remaining 3 years of the contract after this year's tournament.  The RFP was sent out to various entities (including my company) to determine what interest there is in expanding the tournament.

At the end of the day, it costs money to run the NCAA, etc, so they are doing their fiduciary responsibility to explore this option.

They could come back and say no, the  money isn't enough or the tournament should stay at 65 or whatever.

I believe that it will go to 96 either next year or in 2014.  It's not a matter of if, but when. 

I also believe you will see CBS keep the majority of the tournament or perhaps the most important components (the FINAL Four), but I could be wrong on that.  My guess is that ESPN will gobble up a good chunk of these games and you might see a 3rd party involved as well.

Interesting times ahead, but I honestly feel the negativity on this is short sighted....just my opinion.  Teams will keep playing hard, the margin for error to get into the tournament is not substantially reduced by adding 32 teams.  Clubs will still be playing for high seeds, conference championships, etc.  The beneficiaries will not just be the BCS conferences.

Most importantly, if MU people here would take two seconds to put on their Blue and Gold glasses, they would realize how critically important this could be for Marquette in a world where we don't have football.  Self preservation is key and a lot of people are missing this for some reason.

[Eye]

Disagree that it would be a blow to popularity.  Purists may be upset, but they aint turning the TV off.

The overwhelmingly largest reason for the popularity of the NC2A tournament is simple. Gambling. Anybody can throw $5 or $10 in the office pool and be part of the "in" crowd for three weeks. Making it harder to gamble on and make people feel like they're part of the "in" crowd for three weeks makes it that much more unpopular.

[Eye]

Okay here's a question... assuming that it has always been 96 teams since 1990, what years would we have NOT made the tourney?

I'll take a shot on this one. I'll say 16 of the last 18 years. Only year MU would have missed in those years would have been Deane's last year and Crean's second year.

[Eye]

Completely agreed on your last point though Chicos. While I think this is an awful idea for college basketball as a whole, it's probably good for MU.

[mu_hilltopper]

The overwhelmingly largest reason for the popularity of the NC2A tournament is simple. Gambling. Anybody can throw $5 or $10 in the office pool and be part of the "in" crowd for three weeks. Making it harder to gamble on and make people feel like they're part of the "in" crowd for three weeks makes it that much more unpopular.

Well, two things wrong with that.  Firstly, I believe you vastly overstate the "largest reason for the popularity .. gambling."   Certainly, as you suggest, people are popping a few bucks to get into a bracket .. but within 2 short rounds, a huge chunk of people's brackets are busted .. do they stop watching?  Some do.    A $10 investment is NOT what people are dedicating 4, 8, 12, 20 hours to.   Not saying it doesn't add some spice .. but it's a bell curve, with big bell being people who'd casually like to win, yet watch for the same reasons people watch sporting events, regular season games, playoff baseball, the superbowl, whatever.   It's entertainment with purpose and meaning (a championship.)

Second, the amount another 32 teams makes to "making it harder to gamble on" is a pittance.  Sure, if you're a die-hard, researching another 16 games will take time .. but most people are NOT doing that .. I'll bet the average time it takes to fill a bracket is about 6 minutes.  

[Eye]

Sounds like you and I are going to have to agree to disagree on this one Hilltopper. Could we at least agree that the vast majority of people are into the Super Bowl because of gambling and wanting to be part of the "in" crowd?

[SacWarrior]

This is not only a mistake, it's an absolute travesty. The NCAA tournament is the most perfect tournament in all of sports. It means a lot to get in, there are a great number of teams, and every game matters.

Now what? We're going to have the 1 seed facing the 24 seed? A 16 seed has never beaten a 1, so now we're going to have two rounds of pointless basketball? And what does this do to the regular season? If you're in a major conference like Marquette, all you need to do is win 7 games in the Big East and you're in. Each game means almost nothing until the tournament starts, and as a paying season ticket holder I don't want to be going to meaningless games. Season ticket sales will plummet across the nation. No one is going to care about games outside the tournament. Only schools like Duke, Kansas and Kentucky will sell out every game, we even saw the UNC crowds this year stat away from the Deandome once the team dropped to .500.

I really thought the NCAA was better than this. I expect this from the NBA, where David Stern expanded the playoffs to having an absurd 16 teams, over half the league, and even expanding the first round from best of 5 to best of 7 in order to get more money, but I thought the NCAAs realized just how perfect their tournament is. Apparently not. I guess nothing outside the TV Deal matters to these guys. 

And it's obvious the committee wasn't listening to the fans at all. A recent ESPN poll had only 11% in favor of expansion.

[GOMU1104]

This is not only a mistake, it's an absolute travesty. The NCAA tournament is the most perfect tournament in all of sports. It means a lot to get in, there are a great number of teams, and every game matters.

Now what? We're going to have the 1 seed facing the 24 seed? A 16 seed has never beaten a 1, so now we're going to have two rounds of pointless basketball? And what does this do to the regular season? If you're in a major conference like Marquette, all you need to do is win 7 games in the Big East and you're in. Each game means almost nothing until the tournament starts, and as a paying season ticket holder I don't want to be going to meaningless games. Season ticket sales will plummet across the nation. No one is going to care about games outside the tournament. Only schools like Duke, Kansas and Kentucky will sell out every game, we even saw the UNC crowds this year stat away from the Deandome once the team dropped to .500.

Damn...you can tell the future?

Why are you posting here? You should be telling the people in Indianapolis what is going to happen!

[tower912]

The tournament is perfect as is and a cash cow for everyone involved.   So now the genius move is to water it town and cheapen the regular season.     Just a bad idea.    Lets add two more majors to golf and make the NFL playoffs 8 teams in each conference and the MLB 8 teams in each league, too.    Shorten the regular season and add more playoff rounds.   Brilliant!

[Mayor McCheese]

If they expand to 96 teams... it will ruin this tournament

This year is proof that 64 team tournament is perfect... look how great this year has been, only to dilute it with below-average teams... awesome