MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: Tugg Speedman on July 03, 2008, 05:43:06 PM
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Is this why Holman was throwing plants? Crean knew letting him out would cost him a scholie and he was telling him he could not?
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/...tory?id=3471480
Giving up two scholarships for this season as being "proactive" for next year's APR.
It's total b.s. by Crean and IU. The truth is they can't get anyone else for the '08-'09 season anyway, so "giving up" two scholarships now is meaningless - a sham.
They then want to be back in good graces for the Class of '09. If the NCAA committee can't see through this ruse, then it's dumber than dumb.
For even trying to pull such a transparent fast one, I hope the NCAA nails IU's sorry ass to the wall. The more I read about IU (and Crean), the more nauseated I get.
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superbar?
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During the offseason I have a hard time understanding what belongs here? Why is this Superbar material but not "Austin Rivers to FL?" Once you start recalssifying in July, their will be nothing left on this board.
Save the reclassiying for after midnight October 17.
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I laughed when I read this as well. If I were working for the NCAA and reviewing this case I'd almost be insulted that IU pulled the crap they did (or allowed for it to be pulled) and then is trying this option as an out. It may do more harm than good in the long run.
Do you think the NCAA would ever go easy on IU because of their name and importance ($$$) to NCAA basketball ?-(
I wouldn't think so from their history of handling issues like this, but...
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IU stinks now. They will be lucky to win five games next year. Greenspan was axed and they offered up another scholie to keep the NCAA off them. They are in a panic over their situation.
From the NCAA's standpoint, why not hammer them? They are not good and are not about to be good. As of now they have no five-star recruits to attract attention. So, it's a great time to make an example of them percisely because "it's Indiana!"
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IU did the proactive thing and is showing they're ready to change by hiring Squeaky Crean (I made that one up :D) and cleaning house (bye, bye AD).
I think they hope that these moves will make them look more favorably in the eyes of the NCAA committee.
And, anything that is IU/Crean (non-MU) related DOES belong in the SuperBar.
Austin Rivers is still a prep...so technically, it's related to MU recruiting. ;)
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The NCAA's not going to hammer them because they sell tickets, have a great basketball tradition and are angels compared to some of their Big Ten brethren.
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Tne NCAA will probably out them and probation for one year, which is meaningless, because they will not make the tournament anyways.
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"giving up" two scholarships now is meaningless - a sham
The NCAA will probably put them and probation for one year, which is meaningless, because they will not make the tournament anyways.
What alternatives do you propose? The NCAA dishes out the punishment in response to the infraction or violation. In men’s basketball, under the Academic Progress Rate (APR) rules, two scholarship losses is the maximum penalty. So Indiana self-punishes at the max rate in the year following the APR shortfall -- why is that wrong?
The same thing for probation. It will occur -- IF it occcurs -- the year following the violations. Why is that wrong?
Are you proposing that the NCAA bank the penalties for a time when they will hurt more? I can just see it, four or so years from now, Indiana is about to win the Big Ten tournament and get the automatic bid, so the NCAA decides "let's drop that NCAA tournament ban on them now."
That is just not how this works.
The reality is that with the housecleaning IU has done, there are no more student-athletes to punish, no coaches to punish, and no athletic administrators to punish. IU is prepared to take its lumps, but to criticize them for taking pro-active measures is silly. Every school is expected to do that and every school does it.
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Actually giving up two scholies and ban from the tourney does hurt IU. And, it makes coach's idea they will win the Big Ten in four years less likely.
As it stands now, IU has a rag-tag bunch of three-star athletes, mostly Freshman. No one on the current roster is remotely clsoe to an Eric Gordon. Like I've said repeatedly, they look like a five win team next year.
What about the next few years? Unless Crean runs off some guys (entirely possible but at a risk of IU's repuation given they are now under the microscope), he's only got two spots for his 09 team. And with a ban against post season, don't expect him to sign to McDonald's AAs (like Motta just did as OSU) becuase they know they cannot particiapte in the big dance.
This loss of scholies and potential loss of a tourney bid means IU can START the process of re-building in three years.
I'm not suggest Crean cannot re-build IU into a power. I'm suggesting these sanctions turn a 2 to 3 year process into a 5 to 6 year process. So, it does hurt. THey risk is after being down 5 to 6 years, many will forget you were a power in the first place. See MU in the 1980s, see UM now.
Buzz's 6-year deal will be up before IU will be back.
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Superbar!!!!!!!! >:(
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Actually giving up two scholies and ban from the tourney does hurt IU. And, it makes coach's idea they will win the Big Ten in four years less likely.
As it stands now, IU has a rag-tag bunch of three-star athletes, mostly Freshman. No one on the current roster is remotely clsoe to an Eric Gordon. Like I've said repeatedly, they look like a five win team next year.
What about the next few years? Unless Crean runs off some guys (entirely possible but at a risk of IU's repuation given they are now under the microscope), he's only got two spots for his 09 team. And with a ban against post season, don't expect him to sign to McDonald's AAs (like Motta just did as OSU) becuase they know they cannot particiapte in the big dance.
This loss of scholies and potential loss of a tourney bid means IU can START the process of re-building in three years.
I'm not suggest Crean cannot re-build IU into a power. I'm suggesting these sanctions turn a 2 to 3 year process into a 5 to 6 year process. So, it does hurt. THey risk is after being down 5 to 6 years, many will forget you were a power in the first place. See MU in the 1980s, see UM now.
Buzz's 6-year deal will be up before IU will be back.
It'll hurt IU now, but not in the long run.
Look at it this way: They've decided to take ALL of their lumps in 1 to 2 seasons than have it spread out over 3 to 4 (or more).
They'll be fine, but I really do want teams like Northwestern to beat up on them!
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Players transfering in the future would effect the four year moving average and could result in additional loss of scholarships.Giving up the two now is trying to circumvent the penalty, which should occur next year. If NCAA accepts this Indiana gets away with not being penalized, since they will not use the scholarships this year anyways and will use them next year when they should not be allowed to.
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IU will ultimately not get the penalty that many of you here are hoping for. Let's not forget that IU self reported all of these violations. They could have buried them under the rug like so many schools do and hoped they never got caught, they didn't.
Clearly they lacked institutional control, the academics were a disgrace and the foxes were guarding the hen house, but because they self reported they are going to get a lot of love for that. The self imposed penalties, whether you guys like them or not, will be counted as a plus for them. Just the way it is. The NCAA is also filled with IU graduates as it's about an 1 hour from campus....that will also help them. Is what it is.
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Their biggest mistake was bringing in a known cheater like Sampson. One thing they don't have to worry about with Crean is there is cheating. He may be self-serving and a self-promoter but he will run a clean program and his kids will graduate. I just hope they graduate with records of 12-17 every year. :D
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Their biggest mistake was bringing in a known cheater like Sampson. One thing they don't have to worry about with Crean is there is cheating. He may be self-serving and a self-promoter but he will run a clean program and his kids will graduate. I just hope they graduate with records of 12-17 every year. :D
I think his kids will graduate more than previously experienced at IU, but I think there will still be transfers especially early if Crean decides to ink top talent but numbskulls.
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their team has been destroyed. They will suck for the next two years, they reported and penalized themselves as well as firing their coach midseason while their team was contending for a conference title. There is no reason for the ncaa to not be easy for them and take it into account. If they hired any other coach in the country no one here would care.
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IU hired Sampson and made its own bed. Let the NCAA dogs round these guys up. Self-reporting is BS because the phone calls were reported by many others. Total lack of institutional control. The NCAA has to play its hand here or it will look foolish.
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Ahhh not so fast Iu self reported minor violations, then the NCAA snooped around and found major!! correct Iu is trying to take the loss of schollies this year instaed of next year when they should be given, they should not be allowed to get away with that. Also, Tommy Naismith cannot run off too many of his 3 star guards as that will only further affect what has to be a horrendous APR. Used to be an IU fan i will now root against them 30 times ayear, and will for the first time in my life root for UW...well at least a couple times a year
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NCAA Rules must be followed for all schools, and if there are violations and impending penalties, the NCAA commitee must dole them out as they see fit. Self - imposed penalties are transparent - they are meant to head off more stringent penalties the school thinks might come down from the NCAA.
The NCAA committee should impose what they feel is a fair penalty regardless of what the university has already done.
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When the NCAA came out last week and raised the ante by saying that IU would also be investigated for
"failure to supervise", they gave the signal that this will be a major investigation with potentially major penalties.
From the NCAA standpoint this will be a good situation to come down hard on as a deterrent to other programs from similar abuses, as the IU BB program is one of the most visible around!
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From the NCAA standpoint this will be a good situation to come down hard on as a deterrent to other programs from similar abuses, as the IU BB program is one of the most visible around!
I agree. If this was last year's team, top 10 with a lottery pick in Eric Gordon, then all the "its Indiana" arguments would apply. But this is a terrible team that will finish 11th in the big 10 this year and probably next. It is the perfect time to "hammer" a high profile program to show that the NCAA means business.
Chico, yes the NCAA is headquartered in Indianapolis and yes they have lots of IU alum on their staff. But its not the staff that makes this call, it is an executive committee and their alligence in to the NCAA and its rules, not IU.
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Even if the IU grads were in a position of decision making on this, they would in all probability recuse themselves. Even if they did stick around and be part of the decision, they would go out of their way to show that they don't have an IU bias at the very least-----that is if they wanted to keep their jobs.
Careers are more important than aiding one's alma mater when they are wrong!
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Ahhh not so fast Iu self reported minor violations, then the NCAA snooped around and found major!! correct Iu is trying to take the loss of schollies this year instaed of next year when they should be given, they should not be allowed to get away with that. Also, Tommy Naismith cannot run off too many of his 3 star guards as that will only further affect what has to be a horrendous APR. Used to be an IU fan i will now root against them 30 times ayear, and will for the first time in my life root for UW...well at least a couple times a year
Would the NCAA have looked further if IU hadn't self-reported at first. Answer = NO.
There are very few investigators at the NCAA and they don't go around knocking down doors to turn things up.
Seriously, you should go seek some help if you have that much of a hang-up on any individual person, especially one that ran a very clean program at your alma mater at MU, graduated almost all of his kids and returned MU to winning ways. Yeah, do he's a jerk ....by your rationale a really nice guy that cheats his ass off would be ok because he didn't rub you the wrong way. Whatever.
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superbar?
Agreed. It is really getting annoying to see all IU updates posted to the main board.
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Would the NCAA have looked further if IU hadn't self-reported at first. Answer = NO.
There are very few investigators at the NCAA and they don't go around knocking down doors to turn things up.
Seriously, you should go seek some help if you have that much of a hang-up on any individual person, especially one that ran a very clean program at your alma mater at MU, graduated almost all of his kids and returned MU to winning ways. Yeah, do he's a jerk ....by your rationale a really nice guy that cheats his ass off would be ok because he didn't rub you the wrong way. Whatever.
Actually, chicos, IU's "self-reporting" came after numerous incidents of recruits and parents and other reps who said they had calls with Sampson that were not initiated by the recruits ( also reported in Indiana newspapers). IU really had no choice but to investigate. And, that my friend, is where the rub comes into play. IU hired Sampson while he was under the NCAA radar and the IU failed miserably in supervising Sampson when they should have been watching his every move. Then you have the academic fiasco on top. Lets face it, IU is in a tough spot and deserves to face whatever comes. The IU admin made its own bed and forgot to clean it and make it up on a regular schedule. I say shame on IU. "Self-reporting" here is a real misnomer.
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Actually, chicos, IU's "self-reporting" came after numerous incidents of recruits and parents and other reps who said they had calls with Sampson that were not initiated by the recruits ( also reported in Indiana newspapers). IU really had no choice but to investigate. And, that my friend, is where the rub comes into play. IU hired Sampson while he was under the NCAA radar and the IU failed miserably in supervising Sampson when they should have been watching his every move. Then you have the academic fiasco on top. Lets face it, IU is in a tough spot and deserves to face whatever comes. The IU admin made its own bed and forgot to clean it and make it up on a regular schedule. I say shame on IU. "Self-reporting" here is a real misnomer.
I don't disagree at all that they failed miserably at watching over Sampson. My point is and remains that IU still self reported the violations to the NCAA, not the other way around.
Let's put it this way....the press broke stories on Bush and others at USC and to this day NOTHING has happened. IU, however, was already looking into some of the issues that the press reported about Sampson when the press released those stories (IU was already acting...they had hired an independent law firm in Indy which revealed their report in October of 2007) and thus I don't concur with your statement.
http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/sports/hh/ks/?sid=226
The Herald Times has a nice timeline in the left margin of the link below
http://www.heraldtimesonline.com/sports/hh/ks/?sid=233
The incident you reference actually took place in February of 2008, but IU had already had the ball rolling months previously with the NCAA in October.
IU will get what they deserve, but they certainly self reported and the NCAA will chalk that up as a positive for them. Does it all really matter? They're going to be bad for two years and then they'll start to make progress....much like MU was pretty bad the first two years under Crean (though this IU team will be much worse) and then year three things will improve drastically for them.
I'd be shocked if the NCAA gives them any appreciable punishment beyond year two...maybe one scholarship in year three. We'll see.
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IU hired Sampson and made its own bed. Let the NCAA dogs round these guys up. Self-reporting is BS because the phone calls were reported by many others. Total lack of institutional control. The NCAA has to play its hand here or it will look foolish.
+1. When IU got rid of Knight, I was all for it as his time was up. But to get rid of Knight, who ran a clean program and graduated players, only to bring in Sampson who did neither, was beyond terrible. The NCAA should throw the book at IU for bringing in a guy who dirtied a clean program and a guy who couldn't care less about his players graduating. It's shameful and a disgrace.
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+1. When IU got rid of Knight, I was all for it as his time was up. But to get rid of Knight, who ran a clean program and graduated players, only to bring in Sampson who did neither, was beyond terrible. The NCAA should throw the book at IU for bringing in a guy who dirtied a clean program and a guy who couldn't care less about his players graduating. It's shameful and a disgrace.
Let's not get overboard....there was a guy named Davis in between. At the end of the day, we're also talking about phone calls here. There are transgressions and there are transgressions. "Throwing the book" is typically used for programs paying players (i.e. Michigan) or having someone else take tests for athletes (i.e. Minnesota), etc.
By the way, when I was at IU Knight's team would run practices in August and September AS A TEAM which is illegal per NCAA rules. How did they get away with it? They would use a football. I kid you not. They would run fast break drills throwing a football without using a basketball and thus it was a "football practice".
Breaking the rules or just being creative? You decide