MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: GoldenEagles03 on December 27, 2021, 04:19:50 PM

Title: How the Heck Do We Evaluate a Season Like This?
Post by: GoldenEagles03 on December 27, 2021, 04:19:50 PM
As fans we always want to evaluate year to year to see how we have improved, what we can improve on, and direction of the program.  That is especially the case in year 1 of Shaka Smart.

A young team that has already seen 1 of its 2 best players miss a game due to COVID. The rapidly changing schedule causes a mess for teams. We only see the games, but these kids have to do school work, travel, worry about protocols, etc. They may go a few weeks in between games with how things are going and for an inexperienced team (on the bubble!) looking to build chemistry that is a big deal.

That brings up the question: How the heck do we evaluate a season like this?
Title: Re: How the Heck Do We Evaluate a Season Like This?
Post by: NCMUFan on December 27, 2021, 04:23:19 PM
We seemed to do it last year with no problem.
This year should be a snap!
Title: Re: How the Heck Do We Evaluate a Season Like This?
Post by: Marquette4life on December 27, 2021, 04:25:03 PM
Every team is in the same boat. You either make the dance or you don’t. However, my expectations were to make the NIT this year and next year make the dance so as long as everyone keeps realistic expectations which may be hard for some on here, we should evaluate in the same way as you would in any other season
Title: Re: How the Heck Do We Evaluate a Season Like This?
Post by: Uncle Rico on December 27, 2021, 04:41:49 PM
As fans we always want to evaluate year to year to see how we have improved, what we can improve on, and direction of the program.  That is especially the case in year 1 of Shaka Smart.

A young team that has already seen 1 of its 2 best players miss a game due to COVID. The rapidly changing schedule causes a mess for teams. We only see the games, but these kids have to do school work, travel, worry about protocols, etc. They may go a few weeks in between games with how things are going and for an inexperienced team (on the bubble!) looking to build chemistry that is a big deal.

That brings up the question: How the heck do we evaluate a season like this?

You need to go back and see what Derrick Wilson did in games against top-50 defenses in 30 day months
Title: Re: How the Heck Do We Evaluate a Season Like This?
Post by: MU82 on December 27, 2021, 04:45:45 PM
You need to go back and see what Derrick Wilson did in games against top-50 defenses in 30 day months

I miss the Derrick/Jake backcourt. Good times.
Title: Re: How the Heck Do We Evaluate a Season Like This?
Post by: tower912 on December 27, 2021, 04:52:40 PM
We evaluated last season. 


Respect the process.
Title: Re: How the Heck Do We Evaluate a Season Like This?
Post by: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on December 27, 2021, 04:55:34 PM
Probably won't be a season to evaluate in a few weeks. Sucks, but just don't see how CBB survives this without major changes to testing and protocols.
Title: Re: How the Heck Do We Evaluate a Season Like This?
Post by: rocket surgeon on December 27, 2021, 04:57:48 PM
   8 good wins and 5 bad losses
Title: Re: How the Heck Do We Evaluate a Season Like This?
Post by: Uncle Rico on December 27, 2021, 04:58:19 PM
Probably won't be a season to evaluate in a few weeks. Sucks, but just don't see how CBB survives this without major changes to testing and protocols.
.

I find your lack of faith in the people that run college athletics remarkably correct
Title: Re: How the Heck Do We Evaluate a Season Like This?
Post by: Johnny B on December 27, 2021, 05:03:15 PM
Every team is in the same boat. You either make the dance or you don’t. However, my expectations were to make the NIT this year and next year make the dance so as long as everyone keeps realistic expectations which may be hard for some on here, we should evaluate in the same way as you would in any other season
kiss tournry bye bye next year with no lewis. dont have a ton a faith in the returning guys making huge jumps nor the transfer market
Title: Re: How the Heck Do We Evaluate a Season Like This?
Post by: Mu8891 on December 27, 2021, 05:17:04 PM
U evaluate it the way every other school does.  As pointed out above ... it’s the same for everyone. 

They had a very good start.  Bad last few weeks... and seem to be trending down.  Morsell missed a game ?  So what ?  Guys miss games all the time... on MU and every team.

I honestly don’t think Smart has brought in enough talent. I hope I’m wrong
Title: Re: How the Heck Do We Evaluate a Season Like This?
Post by: GoldenEagles03 on December 27, 2021, 05:23:39 PM
We seemed to do it last year with no problem.
This year should be a snap!

That was well into Wojo's tenure with none of his teams getting better aside from maybe the 2017 team.

I'm mostly looking at how do we evaluate a team in year 1 with a new coach when it is a far from normal season in terms of the layout.

It's difficult to measure a trajectory with stoppages and guys being forced to sit out. Right now Marquette is right in the mix for a bid with plenty of opportunities for good wins, but we don't have a clue what games will be played or who will be available for either team. Just makes evaluating a team extremely difficult or almost impossible.
Title: Re: How the Heck Do We Evaluate a Season Like This?
Post by: rocky_warrior on December 27, 2021, 05:42:16 PM
Like every year, we'll evaluate it at the end, and with stats!

I would say, the team has a lot of growing up to do.  To this point, this is the worst MU team since 2008, and worst team Shaka has ever coached.  But, there is time to improve - and they need to!

https://www.barttorvik.com/team-history.php?team=Marquette

https://www.barttorvik.com/coach-history.php?coach=Shaka%20Smart
Title: Re: How the Heck Do We Evaluate a Season Like This?
Post by: MU82 on December 27, 2021, 07:30:14 PM
So Torvik says this team isn’t just worse than Wojo’s first team but WAY worse? Hmm. To me that says more about Torvik than it does about anything else.
Title: Re: How the Heck Do We Evaluate a Season Like This?
Post by: mileskishnish72 on December 27, 2021, 08:36:10 PM
The thread title is a good question. Yeah, there are stats, and W's and L's. Bottom line, it looks like the season is going to be so disjointed, Shaka's likely to get a pass no matter the final numbers.

After the season, planning for next year, we'll get to see how effective the relationship-building and culture-creating are.
Title: Re: How the Heck Do We Evaluate a Season Like This?
Post by: MU82 on December 27, 2021, 09:14:01 PM
The thread title is a good question. Yeah, there are stats, and W's and L's. Bottom line, it looks like the season is going to be so disjointed, Shaka's likely to get a pass no matter the final numbers.

I know there was a discussion a little while back in which some Scoopers said Shaka wouldn't "get a pass" from them this season just because he's the new coach.

But for everybody who matters -- those who make the decisions at Marquette -- Shaka was gonna get a pass even if Covid had been cured and the season wasn't doomed to get "disjointed."
Title: Re: How the Heck Do We Evaluate a Season Like This?
Post by: rocky_warrior on December 28, 2021, 08:56:41 AM
So Torvik says this team isn’t just worse than Wojo’s first team but WAY worse? Hmm. To me that says more about Torvik than it does about anything else.

I get you don't like the numbers, but your argument is to just dismiss them?  Hah.  If they painted a rosy picture you'd probably use them all the time!

I mean, if you like Pomeroy better, only slightly better than the 2015 team, and worse than last year  But still worse than any other Shaka team.  Our efficiency numbers aren't pretty (offense for sure, but defense too).   Like I said, plenty of time to get better, and Shaka to work some magic.
Title: Re: How the Heck Do We Evaluate a Season Like This?
Post by: NCMUFan on December 28, 2021, 09:04:13 AM
A little question:
If Shaka repeats his Texas  level of success at Marquette, how long will he be MUs head coach?
Realistically, should we expect more?

Title: Re: How the Heck Do We Evaluate a Season Like This?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on December 28, 2021, 09:27:53 AM
A little question:
If Shaka repeats his Texas  level of success at Marquette, how long will he be MUs head coach?
Realistically, should we expect more?

He'd be at MU longer than Wojo if he repeats what he did at Texas
Title: Re: How the Heck Do We Evaluate a Season Like This?
Post by: NCMUFan on December 28, 2021, 09:33:40 AM
Here's to fingers crossed.
Title: Re: How the Heck Do We Evaluate a Season Like This?
Post by: rocky_warrior on December 28, 2021, 09:44:10 AM
He'd be at MU longer than Wojo if he repeats what he did at Texas

I disagree - 3 years without a NCAA win and I think the seat gets pretty hot.  But I also don't expect that to be the case.
Title: Re: How the Heck Do We Evaluate a Season Like This?
Post by: 4everwarriors on December 28, 2021, 09:55:03 AM
I disagree - 3 years without a NCAA win and I think the seat gets pretty hot.  But I also don't expect that to be the case.



If MU even thinks 'bout chit cannin' Shaka after 3 years, they're fookin' idiots. Dis iz a reclamation project and dat takes tyme. Dave got da write koach. Now, sit back and let 'im goe ta work. Y'all kneed ta consentrate on udder thangs, hey?
Title: Re: How the Heck Do We Evaluate a Season Like This?
Post by: rocky_warrior on December 28, 2021, 09:57:16 AM
Y'all kneed ta consentrate on udder thangs, hey?

Sweet, you put time and thought into answering a hypothetical question, and then ridicule others for doing the same thing.  Never change doc...
Title: Re: How the Heck Do We Evaluate a Season Like This?
Post by: GB Warrior on December 28, 2021, 09:58:18 AM
5 years to evaluate imo
Title: Re: How the Heck Do We Evaluate a Season Like This?
Post by: 4everwarriors on December 28, 2021, 09:59:41 AM
Sweet, you put time and thought into answering a hypothetical question, and then ridicule others for doing the same thing.  Never change doc...


Luv ya man. Watt yeers were ya in da MU Band, hey?
Title: Re: How the Heck Do We Evaluate a Season Like This?
Post by: rocky_warrior on December 28, 2021, 10:01:46 AM
Luv ya man. Watt yeers were ya in da MU Band, hey?

Hey I was in the Band, and Orchestra, and pep band.  Only 93-94 though. 
Title: Re: How the Heck Do We Evaluate a Season Like This?
Post by: 4everwarriors on December 28, 2021, 10:09:59 AM
Wuz Nick Contorno da director at da tyme, hey?
Title: Re: How the Heck Do We Evaluate a Season Like This?
Post by: rocky_warrior on December 28, 2021, 10:23:47 AM
Yup, RIP.  Good dude, probably the first person I casually referred to as "Doc".
Title: Re: How the Heck Do We Evaluate a Season Like This?
Post by: bilsu on December 28, 2021, 11:37:29 AM
You evaluate the season on whether you believe the program is moving in the right direction. A young team should get better as they age and get physically stronger. On that point I think we are okay.

Every coach needs to address his team's weak spot through recruiting. I am concern about MU's frontline next year, especially if Lewis goes pro. My judgement will be based on how Shaka strengthens MU in this area.
Title: Re: How the Heck Do We Evaluate a Season Like This?
Post by: MU82 on December 28, 2021, 12:13:28 PM
I get you don't like the numbers, but your argument is to just dismiss them?  Hah.  If they painted a rosy picture you'd probably use them all the time!

I mean, if you like Pomeroy better, only slightly better than the 2015 team, and worse than last year  But still worse than any other Shaka team.  Our efficiency numbers aren't pretty (offense for sure, but defense too).   Like I said, plenty of time to get better, and Shaka to work some magic.

It's not that I don't "like" the numbers. I just don't get them sometimes.

Ultimately, the only numbers I really care about are those attached to wins and losses. But we're nowhere near "ultimately" with Shaka yet, so I just want to see solid progress. Yes, "see," with my eyes, even though I know such a thing is frowned on today.

Here's hoping Year 2 at Marquette is nothing like Year 2 at Texas ... because Scoop will implode if we go 11-22 next season ... no matter what Torvik might say.
Title: Re: How the Heck Do We Evaluate a Season Like This?
Post by: DoctorV on December 28, 2021, 02:41:08 PM
Wuz Nick Contorno da director at da tyme, hey?

1- why do you always type like that?

2- iz it difikult or yore uzed to it by now so you doughnt know any udder wey hey?
Title: Re: How the Heck Do We Evaluate a Season Like This?
Post by: Jockey on December 28, 2021, 02:53:44 PM


If MU even thinks 'bout chit cannin' Shaka after 3 years, they're fookin' idiots. Dis iz a reclamation project and dat takes tyme. Dave got da write koach. Now, sit back and let 'im goe ta work. Y'all kneed ta consentrate on udder thangs, hey?

I'm not bilingual, but I think I agree.

Just not positive.
Title: Re: How the Heck Do We Evaluate a Season Like This?
Post by: NCMUFan on December 28, 2021, 03:01:06 PM


If MU even thinks 'bout chit cannin' Shaka after 3 years, they're fookin' idiots. Dis iz a reclamation project and dat takes tyme. Dave got da write koach. Now, sit back and let 'im goe ta work. Y'all kneed ta consentrate on udder thangs, hey?
How about a "Superfund site"?
Title: Re: How the Heck Do We Evaluate a Season Like This?
Post by: wildbillsb on December 28, 2021, 04:13:20 PM
1- why do you always type like that?

2- iz it difikult or yore uzed to it by now so you doughnt know any udder wey hey?

+100!  I found it so annoying, i put him on "ignore."
Title: Re: How the Heck Do We Evaluate a Season Like This?
Post by: Jockey on December 28, 2021, 06:19:33 PM
+100!  I found it so annoying, i put him on "ignore."

Yup.

It's interesting that the 2 most annoying things on Scoop (babbling and "Crean Sucks" come from the same person). He must be a blast at parties. ::)
Title: Re: How the Heck Do We Evaluate a Season Like This?
Post by: 4everwarriors on December 28, 2021, 06:21:57 PM
Rock Star status, again, hey?
Title: Re: How the Heck Do We Evaluate a Season Like This?
Post by: rocky_warrior on December 28, 2021, 08:12:20 PM
Rock Star status, again, hey?

Like an enema enigma!
Title: Re: How the Heck Do We Evaluate a Season Like This?
Post by: rocket surgeon on December 28, 2021, 08:44:08 PM
+100!  I found it so annoying, i put him on "ignore."

you're loss...missing out on some free golden nuggets you'd be able to tell your kids/grandkids about.  come on billy, let your hair down a little bit
Title: Re: How the Heck Do We Evaluate a Season Like This?
Post by: wildbillsb on December 28, 2021, 09:15:34 PM
Used to have hair.  It was long and black.  Haven't seen it in decades, except for a grungy, white growth that sticks out around the edges of my baseball cap.  Not a good look to say the least.
Title: Re: How the Heck Do We Evaluate a Season Like This?
Post by: tower912 on December 29, 2021, 06:12:12 AM
So, like so many of us, instead of letting your hair down, ypur hair as let you down.