Illinois

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

So to summarize: the metrics used by the GAO are wrong that Illinois citizens pay $20 billion more per year in taxes to Fed than they receive. And since IL politicians lied, IL citizens do not deserve any assistance from the Federal government presuming argument being morale hazard then every state would overspend and expect a bailout from Fed government?

You must admit, it's a very Chicosian line of thinking.

[Pakuni]

The pay in vs pay out by states depends how it is done.  Are only tax receipts used or are other factors?  An an example, federal monies going to Florida for Federal highway helps Florida but it also helps trucking / commerce for the entire region. Some of these states are the backbone of our military and receive funding for bases.  Illinois, is an example that does not fit that criteria in comparison to a Florida, Georgia or other states that receive more money.  If national defense is important, the bases have to be built somewhere and warmer weather allows for more training hours and less wear and tear on the equipment.

Naval Station Great Lakes near North Chicago is the Navy's only boot camp, pumping out about 40,000 sailors a year.
Surprised a Chicago guy wouldn't be aware of this.

As for transportation, between O'Hare (#1 or #2 in passenger traffic, #4 in cargo), its central location and its status as the freight train capital of the U.S., you'd have a hard time arguing Illinois isn't at least as important, if not important, to commerce in this country than a place like Florida.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Naval Station Great Lakes near North Chicago is the Navy's only boot camp, pumping out about 40,000 sailors a year.
Surprised a Chicago guy wouldn't be aware of this.

As for transportation, between O'Hare (#1 or #2 in passenger traffic, #4 in cargo), its central location and its status as the freight train capital of the U.S., you'd have a hard time arguing Illinois isn't at least as important, if not important, to commerce in this country than a place like Florida.

Are you not familiar with chico's?

[Hards Alumni]

Are you not familiar with chico's?

He's aware, he subtlety pointed out that a Chicago guy would know things about Chicago. 

[TSmith34, Inc.]

He's aware, he subtlety pointed out that a Chicago guy would know things about Chicago. 

No, I mean re the part I bolded, "you'd have a hard time arguing". It was a joke. Apparently not a very good one.

[Hards Alumni]

No, I mean re the part I bolded, "you'd have a hard time arguing". It was a joke. Apparently not a very good one.

Well it would help if I had saw that.  lol

[WarriorDad]

Or maybe "we" shouldn't have spent a couple of decades diverting pension contributions into pork projects that enrich our major campaign donors.
It's like you're not even trying anymore.

We agree.  We should not have done that.  Both sides.  And knowing that we have done it for so many years here is why the constituents were so skeptical of any reform efforts or new promises.  They are based on false premises.

[WarriorDad]

So to summarize: the metrics used by the GAO are wrong that Illinois citizens pay $20 billion more per year in taxes to Fed than they receive. And since IL politicians lied, IL citizens do not deserve any assistance from the Federal government presuming argument being morale moral hazard then every state would overspend and expect a bailout from Fed government?

Edit:  fixed morale hazard to moral hazard.  Well that definitely was Freudian.   

No, not wrong, but incomplete and the methodology is important.  If purely using tax dollars received and spent, the GAO is correct.

The arguments here come from the same old cast of characters.  Red states vs blue states.  Are we not all Americans?  Having lived in red states and blue states during my lifetime it would be nice to view it that way. 

Here are some for instances on why the methodology above is incomplete, but feeds into the takers and donators arguing which side is better.

Should we have a nuclear arsenal as a deterrent against others like Russia?   Is it unfair that billions of dollars over the years have gone to build silos in Kansas, South Dakota, North Dakota, Wyoming, Montana?  All are red states.  They were chosen because they are in the middle of the country and sparsely populated.  They give less (actually Wyoming is a net giver) than others, but the benefit they received protects all of us.

Should we have a national strategic petroleum reserve to buttress against OPEC or other energy scenarios?  Is it unfair that billions of dollars over the years have gone to Louisiana to build underground storage?  A red state (I think, though it has Democrat Governor and legislature a good amount of the time) that was chosen because of the salt caverns there that are environmentally needed for such a task.  Doesn't that benefit all of us even though Lousiana isn't giving as much in taxes to the federal gov't?

Should we have a space program?  Why does California, Texas and Florida get most of the benefits?   

I am not against the pension bailout my state is seeking because of the workers.  I am against the corruption in this state that led to its insolvency long before COVID 19 came into existence.  We don't do enough to stop the repeated mistakes that require our children to should the load for others actions.

[MarquetteDano]

The arguments here come from the same old cast of characters.  Red states vs blue states.  Are we not all Americans?  Having lived in red states and blue states during my lifetime it would be nice to view it that way. 

Here are some for instances on why the methodology above is incomplete, but feeds into the takers and donators arguing which side is better.

You are the one who stated the rest  of the country would not like a bailout. All of a sudden now we all need to pull together and ignore the money aspect.

So confused. I guess we can at least agree that Illinois needs to get their house in order. I would love if a Fed bailout included a condition that IL had to have a balance budget and if we didn't like it no $$.

[Galway Eagle]

Anyone else surprised J.B. is waiting to extend the stay at home order? I mean it's getting to the point where waiting is going to make a worse reaction.

[Pakuni]

Anyone else surprised J.B. is waiting to extend the stay at home order? I mean it's getting to the point where waiting is going to make a worse reaction.

I hear it may be coming Friday.

[mu_hilltopper]

In seriousness, what is the benefit to "early" extensions?

I think there's a good case for .. releasing metrics .. then 3-4 days before the Q is up, release the performance vs. those metrics and regretfully extend the Q.

Although (if I were a Gov) .. I would also release metrics for "low risk" businesses and activities and then release a list of those as well -- with a caveat: If you are a high-risk person, do not go out, do not let your immediate family go out.

[Galway Eagle]

I hear it may be coming Friday.

I think that's just asking for bad PR. I mean inside 10 days people are thinking "I can see the light at the end of the tunnel" last week people would've thought "yeah figured it'd be extended" but waiting 6 days before to extend it again? Uncool.

[mu_hilltopper]

I think that's just asking for bad PR. I mean inside 10 days people are thinking "I can see the light at the end of the tunnel" last week people would've thought "yeah figured it'd be extended" but waiting 6 days before to extend it again? Uncool.

I disagree.   Explain the process, the transparency, the data.   Certainly, telegraph what is likely to happen: extension.     "I wish we were in a different place, I suspect we'll need to extend and we'll do that a week before, and the extension will be limited to 14 days and we'll look at fresh data at that time."

.. I'm also not a fan of looking at events in 4-5-6 months and cancelling them.  There's a lot of game left. -- Frankly, I suspect every week that goes by past ~May, 3-5% of the population is going to start living their lives again, consequences be damned. 

[Skatastrophy]

With earnings season there is going to be a ton of bad news dropping at Friday EoB. I think the Illinois extension will get lost in the shuffle of the rest of the things people are reeling from.

Lightfoot said today that we're unlikely to hit our peak until mid-May, so I wouldn't be surprised by an end-of-May extension.

[mu_hilltopper]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-22/mcconnell-says-he-favors-allowing-states-to-declare-bankruptcy

So .. Illinois could declare bankruptcy and .. then what?  The pension problems can be erased? 

Did .. Detroit try this years ago?

[tower912]

The most important word there is McConnell.

[Pakuni]

The most important word there is McConnell.

The most important word not there is Constitution.

[tower912]

Coincidence?

[MarquetteDano]

The most important word there is McConnell.

If I were the GOP I might have chosen a Texan to make these comments.  Talking about cost to the US taxpayer from someone from a state that gets subsidized to the tune of $13 billion a year may fool the average Joe who knows nothing about economics, but no one else.

And if you use his home state (AL) that is $30 billion a year in cost.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

If I were the GOP I might have chosen a Texan to make these comments.  Talking about cost to the US taxpayer from someone from a state that gets subsidized to the tune of $13 billion a year may fool the average Joe who knows nothing about economics, but no one else.

And if you use his home state (AL) that is $30 billion a year in cost.

As someone else mentioned somewhere else, a lot of military in KY.  That skews the number somewhat.   Plus, the absolute poverty of Appalachia gets a lot of government aid.

If anyone is ever looking for a charity to support, the Christian Appalachian Project is an amazing charity doing a lot of good in eastern KY.

[MarquetteDano]

As someone else mentioned somewhere else, a lot of military in KY.  That skews the number somewhat.   Plus, the absolute poverty of Appalachia gets a lot of government aid.

If anyone is ever looking for a charity to support, the Christian Appalachian Project is an amazing charity doing a lot of good in eastern KY.

Military barely moves the needle.  The Fed rakes in nearly $12,900 per person in Illinois versus $7,780 in Kentucky.  And yet they spend more per person in Kentucky than Illinois.

Like I said,  If I Texan would have made the comment,  fare dinkum as the Australians would say.  Kentucky?  Not so much.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

may fool the average Joe who knows nothing about economics, but no one else.

So, 94% of Americans?

[Lennys Tap]

Illinois opening April 30th.

[Chili]

Illinois opening April 30th.

Where did you see this? I haven't seen anything in the news.