how to get into med school 101

[rocket surgeon]

http://www.bostonmagazine.com/health/blog/2015/04/06/mindy-kalings-brother-posed-as-a-black-man-to-get-into-med-school/


ya think these quotas need to be scrutinized  a little more thoroughly?  the short answer=YES!!  what do they need to require next, a dna test?  how, it exposes the sad truth of affirmative action-many african americans and other minorities do not want to be seen as getting "favors" in order to get accepted into grad programs-they want to earn it the old fashioned way. they want to be seen as getting in under the same circumstances/standards as ALL of the applicants.  many people assume minorities all get breaks. so the question becomes, who do you chose for YOUR doctor/dentist, etc?  one that had the standards lowered for him/her to be accepted?  or the BEST of the BEST  who do you want taking that 3 a.m. phone call?

[jesmu84]

While I disagree with affirmative action, I think it's dishonest to say that people who get in to med school, even by lower acceptance standards, are not competent doctors. After all, they still have to succeed/graduate once they're in.

[brandx]

http://www.bostonmagazine.com/health/blog/2015/04/06/mindy-kalings-brother-posed-as-a-black-man-to-get-into-med-school/


ya think these quotas need to be scrutinized  a little more thoroughly?  the short answer=YES!!  what do they need to require next, a dna test?  how, it exposes the sad truth of affirmative action-many african americans and other minorities do not want to be seen as getting "favors" in order to get accepted into grad programs-they want to earn it the old fashioned way. they want to be seen as getting in under the same circumstances/standards as ALL of the applicants.  many people assume minorities all get breaks. so the question becomes, who do you chose for YOUR doctor/dentist, etc?  one that had the standards lowered for him/her to be accepted?  or the BEST of the BEST  who do you want taking that 3 a.m. phone call?

Please, please, God, don't let a black man answer the phone.

Ooooh.... a minority did something wrong. Had to be either you or Chicos to point that out to everyone.

Does your hatred for minorities ever end?

[WellsstreetWanderer]

While I disagree with affirmative action, I think it's dishonest to say that people who get in to med school, even by lower acceptance standards, are not competent doctors. After all, they still have to succeed/graduate once they're in.

  What do you call the person who finished last in his class in medical school?

   DOCTOR!
 

   

[Eldon]

http://www.bostonmagazine.com/health/blog/2015/04/06/mindy-kalings-brother-posed-as-a-black-man-to-get-into-med-school/


ya think these quotas need to be scrutinized  a little more thoroughly?  the short answer=YES!!  what do they need to require next, a dna test?  how, it exposes the sad truth of affirmative action-many african americans and other minorities do not want to be seen as getting "favors" in order to get accepted into grad programs-they want to earn it the old fashioned way. they want to be seen as getting in under the same circumstances/standards as ALL of the applicants.  many people assume minorities all get breaks. so the question becomes, who do you chose for YOUR doctor/dentist, etc?  one that had the standards lowered for him/her to be accepted?  or the BEST of the BEST  who do you want taking that 3 a.m. phone call?

I'm not so sure that he thought that being black would help him as much as he thought that being Indian would hurt him.  Med schools receive LOTS of applications from Indians and Americans of Indian decent.  It is pretty clear that Asians applying to ivy schools are held to a higher standard (e.g., comparing their test scores to the test scores of other Asians not to the average applicant) and so maybe he thought that med schools would hold him to a higher standard because he is Indian.

[muwarrior69]

Please, please, God, don't let a black man answer the phone.

Ooooh.... a minority did something wrong. Had to be either you or Chicos to point that out to everyone.

Does your hatred for minorities ever end?

Ben Carson has done very well sir. When we evaluate people for jobs, placements for graduate, Law or Medical Schools on their achievements rather than what group their in we are all better off.

[Benny B]

Please, please, God, don't let a black man answer the phone.

Ooooh.... a minority did something wrong. Had to be either you or Chicos to point that out to everyone.

Does your hatred for minorities ever end?

How does the OP have anything to do with a black person answering the phone?  The Chicos bash is a nice touch, however.

[brandx]

How does the OP have anything to do with a black person answering the phone?  The Chicos bash is a nice touch, however.

Answering the phone at 3 AM? Memories of a Republican commercial from 3 years ago.

[brandx]

Ben Carson has done very well sir. When we evaluate people for jobs, placements for graduate, Law or Medical Schools on their achievements rather than what group their in we are all better off.

I would generally agree with what you are saying.

[rocket surgeon]

Please, please, God, don't let a black man answer the phone.

Ooooh.... a minority did something wrong. Had to be either you or Chicos to point that out to everyone.

Does your hatred for minorities ever end?

how many times do i have to tell you-i am a character guy-where do you get a "hatred for minorities" from my post?  nice try-classic-trying to shut me down-heyna?

i like everybody if they are nice!  PERIOD! 

[rocket surgeon]

While I disagree with affirmative action, I think it's dishonest to say that people who get in to med school, even by lower acceptance standards, are not competent doctors. After all, they still have to succeed/graduate once they're in.

completely agree.  my main point is not one of "hatred" as brandi continues to try to label it and my relationship to minorities.  i am merely pointing out that many minorities don't like affirmative action b/c unfortunately, they fear people will see dr. before their name and people will think they got in BECAUSE they were a minority.  rather, they want to be seen as earning their way in with hard work and ability-that's all.

[ChicosBailBonds]

How does the OP have anything to do with a black person answering the phone?  The Chicos bash is a nice touch, however.

I was bashed by Brand?  Let me guess, he played the race card.....again.

[ChicosBailBonds]

how many times do i have to tell you-i am a character guy-where do you get a "hatred for minorities" from my post?  nice try-classic-trying to shut me down-heyna?

i like everybody if they are nice!  PERIOD! 

It's his go to the well calling card.  I'm in your same camp, believe in character and meritocracy.   Quotas, AA, etc, is 100% bullshyte and all it does is WORSEN race relations.  It's racist at its very core.

[Pakuni]

It's his go to the well calling card.  I'm in your same camp, believe in character and meritocracy.   Quotas, AA, etc, is 100% bullshyte and all it does is WORSEN race relations.  It's racist at its very core.

I don't think being opposed to Affirmative Action is racist (though certainly plenty of racists are), but I do have to ask .... how do we as a nation level the playing field for fellow citizens who, through decades of systematic discrimination, do not have the same opportunities for success that the rest of us have?
If not a program like Affirmative Action, then what solution do you offer?
Or do you have no solution?
Do we just not try and say "Pfft... tough luck. Not my problem"?

[brandx]

It's his go to the well calling card.  I'm in your same camp, believe in character and meritocracy.   Quotas, AA, etc, is 100% bullshyte and all it does is WORSEN race relations.  It's racist at its very core.

Excuse me - I didn't start the thread.

And Quotas are not bullshyte. For many, many, many years Police and Fire Departments refused to hire minorities regardless of qualifications. And, of course, almost all whites were fine with that. I've certainly never heard you complain about whites having unfair advantages.

Yet they are now offended that blacks are being hired for these jobs that they they have been shut out of for most of our country's history.

Yes, Quotas suck. Hopefully, we can reach the point where they are no longer necessary. But there is a reason they are in place. Left to their own devices and without rules, whites refused to hire blacks for a long, long time.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I don't think being opposed to Affirmative Action is racist (though certainly plenty of racists are), but I do have to ask .... how do we as a nation level the playing field for fellow citizens who, through decades of systematic discrimination, do not have the same opportunities for success that the rest of us have?
If not a program like Affirmative Action, then what solution do you offer?
Or do you have no solution?
Do we just not try and say "Pfft... tough luck. Not my problem"?

Affirmative Action is racist.  Pure and simple

[forgetful]

Here are reasons for quotas, and I firmly disagree with the sentiment that the best performing students/MCAT scores are better equipped to be a doctor. 

1. Undergraduate grades do not reflect ability or intelligence.  Some students (from wealthy backgrounds) pay thousands and thousands of dollars on the best tutors to help them get better grades in their courses.  In these situations typically the better grades does not reflect a better mastery of the material, rather just being coached to do well on tests.

Poorer (typically minority) students do not have access to these resources.  They have to teach themselves often.  That leads to poorer test scores, but usually a better retention of knowledge and better preparation going forward.

2.  Poorer students do not have access to a lot of the volunteer (shadowing etc) opportunities as wealthy students who can use family friends as sources of training.

3.  Prepping for MCATs cost thousands of dollars.  They literally teach you how to beat the MCAT.  Those students that can afford top notch MCAT classes get scores that do not reflect their ability.  Meanwhile, minorities and other poor students have to again work on their own, leading to lower scores and less competitive applications.

In the end, the majority of med school students are ill prepared yet 98% graduate medical school regardless of ability.  That is why you see doctors prescribing antibiotics for Ebola and sending patients home.  Often the minority students with worse applications (numbers) are better prepared.

Affirmative action and quotas allow this to be taken into consideration and often improve doctor quality not subtract from it.

[Pakuni]

Affirmative Action is racist.  Pure and simple

You didn't answer the question.

[Aughnanure]

Affirmative Action is racist.  Pure and simple

Ha. The "racism" you see in Affirmative Action is nothing compared to institutionalized racism rampant across American society that brought about the need for a solution like AA.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Think about this for 2 minutes.


We want our doctors to be the best and brightest.....or maybe we don't.

So instead of taking the best candidates to med school, we have quotas for the best, and then quotas for the pretty good, and then quotas for the so-so.   It's just fundamentally wrong in any profession, but that one without question.

It does a TREMENDOUS disservice to minorities as well.   These types of stories get out there and extremely qualified, well educated, good doctors have to deal with the painting of a brush that they may not have gotten in on the merits.  That is awful, but unfortunately these things come up when you have BS nonsense where standards are different.

Same goes for certain people in the military, or the fire department, or whatever.  It used to be we had certain physical standards that absolutely could not be changed.  Then we started to change them, so some people could pass them.  As a result, you dilute some of the capabilities.  Not fair to anyone.

Judge people based on their abilities, not on their gender, color of their skin, ethnicity, etc.  This is paramount if we ever want to get to a society that is colorblind.  Is it realistic?  I don't know, but I think if you have absolute firm standards it can be.  You have to get X on the MCAT, or lift  pounds, etc, etc.  

[ChicosBailBonds]

Ha. The "racism" you see in Affirmative Action is nothing compared to institutionalized racism rampant across American society that brought about the need for a solution like AA.

Awesome...let's fight racism with racist policies.  That's a wonderful solution.

[ChicosBailBonds]

You didn't answer the question.

I answered how you don't do it....with a racist policy.

Problem with your picture you paint, who decides when it is solved?  When the cure is complete?  Too many people invested to NEVER let that happen.  Need a villan, a cause. 

That's a big part of the problem because you alienate perfectly reasonable and non racist folks who can't get a certain job, or their kids not into a school because of what some other a-holes did 150 years ago...or even 5 years ago.

Yup, life isn't fair and fundamentally unfair policies to bring about fairness is toxic from the start.

You want a race free society, you need to have race free policies.  If you keep going down the path of saying we need to "make good" or whatever the nonsense is, well that means you really want to use racist policies FOREVER because it will never end.  As long as racist policies are beign used, it will keep racism alive and well unfortunately.  It is fundamentally flawed.



(sorry, this iPad keyboard sucks...edit to fix errors)

[Pakuni]

I answered how you don't do it....with a racist policy.

Problem with your picture you paint, who decided when it is solved?  When the cure is complete?  To many people invested to NEVER let that happen.  That's a big part of the problem because you alienate perfectly reasonable and non racist folks so they can't get a certain job, or their kids not into a school because of what some other pretty boys did 150 years ago...or even 5 years ago.

Yup, life isn't fair and fundamentally unfair policies to bring about fairness is toxic from the start.

You want s race Fred society, you need to have race free policies. 

I find it a tad ironic that you're OK with life being unfair for many minority groups and the poor thanks to historical and systematic oppression, yet you rage on about the "unfairness" of Affirmative Action or the wealthy paying a larger share of their incomes to taxes.
Apparently when life is unfair to the poor and non white, tough luck. When life is unfair to the white and privileged, it's an outrage.

[MUsoxfan]

Think about this for 2 minutes.


We want our doctors to be the best and brightest.....or maybe we don't.

So instead of taking the best candidates to med school, we have quotas for the best, and then quotas for the pretty good, and then quotas for the so-so.   It's just fundamentally wrong in any profession, but that one without question.

It does a TREMENDOUS disservice to minorities as well.   These types of stories get out there and extremely qualified, well educated, good doctors have to deal with the painting of a brush that they may not have gotten in on the merits.  That is awful, but unfortunately these things come up when you have BS nonsense where standards are different.

Same goes for certain people in the military, or the fire department, or whatever.  It used to be we had certain physical standards that absolutely could not be changed.  Then we started to change them, so some people could pass them.  As a result, you dilute some of the capabilities.  Not fair to anyone.

Judge people based on their abilities, not on their gender, color of their skin, ethnicity, etc.  This is paramount if we ever want to get to a society that is colorblind.  Is it realistic?  I don't know, but I think if you have absolute firm standards it can be.  You have to get X on the MCAT, or lift  pounds, etc, etc.  

You should at least admit that higher test scores don't equate to higher professional worth/ability

[forgetful]

Think about this for 2 minutes.


We want our doctors to be the best and brightest.....or maybe we don't.

So instead of taking the best candidates to med school, we have quotas for the best, and then quotas for the pretty good, and then quotas for the so-so.   It's just fundamentally wrong in any profession, but that one without question.

It does a TREMENDOUS disservice to minorities as well.   These types of stories get out there and extremely qualified, well educated, good doctors have to deal with the painting of a brush that they may not have gotten in on the merits.  That is awful, but unfortunately these things come up when you have BS nonsense where standards are different.

Same goes for certain people in the military, or the fire department, or whatever.  It used to be we had certain physical standards that absolutely could not be changed.  Then we started to change them, so some people could pass them.  As a result, you dilute some of the capabilities.  Not fair to anyone.

Judge people based on their abilities, not on their gender, color of their skin, ethnicity, etc.  This is paramount if we ever want to get to a society that is colorblind.  Is it realistic?  I don't know, but I think if you have absolute firm standards it can be.  You have to get X on the MCAT, or lift  pounds, etc, etc.  

See above on my comments for why it is necessary.  Also, for the reasons I listed above, the best scores/grades mean very little. 

Even the applications to med school/interviews.  Students pay very high rates to have people coach them on writing the perfect purpose statement etc.  It is getting to the point that very little of their accomplishments are their own, but rather tutors, coaches etc.  All opportunities someone from a disadvantaged background doesn't have access to.