Baseball Stadiums

[dwj]

Toronto Skydome - Yeah, it's kind of a dump.  Location in downtown is nice, but I can't really compliment anything else about the ballpark.  These multipurpose venues always look awkward when they're used for baseball.

Detroit Comerica Park - Nice enough stadium, but nothing particularly special.  The abundance of tiger sculptures around the park is pretty neat though.  Perfectly acceptable as a baseball stadium, and I'd probably go again if I was in the area.  I'd give it a point for being downtown, but it's downtown Detroit.

Chicago US Cellular - Have made massive improvements in the past five years, and I commend them for that.  Still, it's about average, but way better than it used to be.  The centerfield area is pretty nice.

Texas Ballpark at Arlington - Pretty nice stadium, albeit it in the suburbs.  But hey, Six Flags is within walking distance.  Nice area for the kids in the outfield.  The few times I went I got some great deals on tickets, but that's probably because they weren't very good that year. The upper deck speakers were pumping in crowd noise that made a screeching sound when it faded out, and the whole thing kinda depressed me. Like Detroit, pretty much an average stadium.

Anaheim Angel Stadium - I like this park.  I can't say anything really sticks out, but it's nice and open, and hey, it's Anaheim.  Although when I attended there was a pretty big fight in the lower deck because apparently some drunk guy stepped on some drunk girls shoe and her drunk boyfriend took offense to it, and it culminated in a few fairly full beers being heaved down upon the fracas from the upper deck.  Couple that with the guy who got pushed down the stairs and died there this year, and I guess my only word of advice is to not start trouble.

Milwaukee Miller Park - I really like this place, sans, as other people have mentioned, the feeling that you're indoors even when the roof is open.  I haven't been there this season, but the concessions (read: beer) are much cheaper than the average ballpark (regular patrons of Miller Park may find that hard to believe).  Tailgating is always a good time, and the fans are pretty happy about that.

Cincinnati Great America Ballpark - Downtown, nice enough ballpark, but seems incredibly...plain.  There's some sort of steamboat thing they got going on in the outfield where you can have parties or something, but it looks faker than you'd expect.  Skyline Chili is real good.

Chicago Wrigley Field - This place just seems to be so dependent on the weather.  Go there in early April when it's overcast and the ivy is dead...not the greatest place to be.  About this time of year, however, it's great.  Nothing beats coming out from the concourse and seeing that ivy and grass along with the scoreboard.  Upper deck, like someone mentioned, is preferable to the terrace reserved.  Important part is to be in the sun.  They've tried to improve concessions, and while it is better, it's still not good.  Good pre and post game scene in the neighborhood though.

Pittsburgh PNC Park - Best park in the majors, in my opinion.  The Clemente bridge in the background along with the skyline are just fantastic.  Fantastic concessions, friendly ushers, everything about the place is great.  Well, except for the team on the field.

Houston Minute Maid Field - Pretty underrated in my opinion.  Good concessions, little details are neat as a visitor (train in the outfield, hill in center).  Sound of roof closing is akin to a pin dropping, or the opposite of Miller Park.  On the outskirts of downtown, but parking is cheap and ample (at least when I was there four years ago).

LA Dodger Stadium - Don't get the hype about this place.  It's a cookie cutter stadium in a neat location, but parking is more of a nightmare than Wrigley, and that place is in a neighborhood.  At least there's public transportation in Wrigley, and that doesn't seem to be an option in LA.  I even took their Dodger bus which didn't make things any quicker.  Concessions are nothing special, and dodger dogs are eh.  Sight line are fine. Raucous fans though, and they definitely love their team.

San Francisco AT&T Park - Probably second to PNC, but admittedly I went to a chilly night game late in the season when the half capacity crowd was dead.  Even though the atmosphere was less than stellar, I still thought it was a great park.  Best concessions I've had, and it's fun enough to simply wander about the park.  Like Minute Maid, there's just some neat little details around the place.

San Diego Petco Park - Nice place downtown, even if tickets are overpriced.  The warehouse building out in left field is a nice touch.  There's a nice picnic area as well, and a fish taco is always a welcome concession item.

Arizona Chase Field - Whoa, sensory overload.  From the screeching jumbotron to the flashing billboards to the abundance of advertisement, I kinda forgot I was at a baseball game.  The ballpark itself is fairly nice, but I think the owners realize they're not really dealing with true baseball fans.  They actually have a "nightclub" in the outfield with a bar and music.  I wouldn't mind getting in that pool suite though.

Denver Coors Field - Nice stadium in a fairly vibrant downtown, and the landscaping in the outfield is pretty cool. Good concessions.  Ushers seemed to take their jobs too seriously.  I was able to buy Miller when I went, so kudos to them for not making me drink that Coors swill.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I am a season Ticket holder and that's B.S. about being stabbed at Dodger Stadium if your wearing other gear. that happened one time. We even let Giant fans leave alive.

easily 80% of fans at a Dodger game are wearing team gear. Any other parks come close?

I was somewhat kidding, but not completely.  More stabbings just this year.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2009/04/man-stabbed-after-dodger-stadium-home-opener.html?cid=6a00d8341c630a53ef01156f254150970c

Of course there was the murder there a few years ago as well.   Multiple assaults last year and the year prior, including multiple stabbings.

Where are your season tickets?  Some of the nonsense going on in the bleachers and especially in the parking lot if you wear a Giants jersey has been eye opening.  I find the Petco and Angel Stadium to be a lot more safe generally speaking.

Sure things happen at all stadiums (someone was killed at Angels stadium this year when he was pushed and hit his head), but the Dodger Stadium days I grew up in have changed unfortunately.  Going to Dodger Stadium was always a very classy event, the fans were great, they cheered wildly for their team but were not disrespectful of the opposing team.  That has really changed.  Constant chants of "X sucks" (fill in Giants, Angels, Cubs), the fights in the bleachers and the parking lot, etc.

I'd rather take my kids to the ballpark where that isn't happening.  Just my opinion, but that's what I see.  

Do a search on Youtube with Dodger Stadium fights and do the same search for Petco stadium fight or Angel stadium fights.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=&search_query=fight+dodger+stadium&aq=f


I guess I'm just getting old, but when I have to protect my kids I'll choose to take them where the crowd is respectful (like the old days of Dodger Stadium), the cars aren't vandalized for being a fan of another team, and assaults don't happen as regularly.


Remember this?  I can't recall Angels or Padres ever having to do this.
http://thehaternation.blogspot.com/2005/06/two-things-about-dodger-stadium-fight.html

[GGGG]

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

A) tailgating without going to the game is fun for the experience now and again. You gotta have a quality tailgate with the finest potato salads to make it really worth while. Besides, the game sometimes cuts into my drinking. I remember days of cutting out on the brewer game if it was boring to go sit and listen to the packer games on the radio and re-fire up the grill.

B) clearly you've never been around the south side of miller park. There has been a boom in development, a lot of standard strip mall like places, but it's still a vast improvement over what it was. -There is even a sonic now

C) I don't think it would matter too much if was put downtown vs where it is now. Ever been to water street/3rd after a game? there are a ton of people in brewers gear downtown. If people want to go out before/after a game they do. My only complaint about where it is, is the freeway that divides a section of parking lot.

A-I'm glad you enjoy tailgating.  It just isn't really all that economically productive.

B-I know that area very well.  My wife is from West Milwaukee.  It was a barren wasteland due to an extension of the freeway that never went through on the west side of the road with the malting plants on the east.  However, that area started to be developed in the early to mid 90s when the Village started a TIF district to encourage development of the vacant land and the replacement of the malting plants.  Has the stadium helped?  Sure....I guess.

C-The impact would have been even greater with the Stadium downtown.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

A-I'm glad you enjoy tailgating.  It just isn't really all that economically productive.

B-I know that area very well.  My wife is from West Milwaukee.  It was a barren wasteland due to an extension of the freeway that never went through on the west side of the road with the malting plants on the east.  However, that area started to be developed in the early to mid 90s when the Village started a TIF district to encourage development of the vacant land and the replacement of the malting plants.  Has the stadium helped?  Sure....I guess.

C-The impact would have been even greater with the Stadium downtown.

I completely agree that a stadium downtown definitely would have made a large economic "splash". I hope everybody knows that.

However, Milwaukee is not Chicago, NYC, or Boston. There is not a large population of fans living in the downtown area (or as large of fan base period).

This means people will be driving into downtown to see a game. This is great for bars and restaurants, right? Right!

BUT, the logistics become much more complicated for people to see a game (ie drive 45 minutes from Waukesha (traffic), park, walk to a bar for something to eat, etc.) It also complicates the traffic flow and patterns for people who live or work downtown (you think the M-change is a mess now? add 40,000 people headed downtown at 6pm)

For hardcore fans, this isn't a big deal. For casual fans, this becomes a bit of a challenge. I don't think people will have a problem overcoming the challenge when the team is good (which means a large economic splash)... but when the team is bad, I'm afraid the attendance would drop (which would mean the neighborhood could end up looking like Grand Ave. mall).

The beautiful thing about Miller Park is that not a lot of stadiums offer the easy access and large parking lots anymore. A good "game experience" for a Brewers game is pretty simple.
-Stop by the grocery store on the way to the lot and pick up what you like
-Park your car in one of the lots (easy access, can't miss it)
-Enjoy your food/beers
-Go to the game
-Drive home
- (if you don't like tailgating, you can still just park at a bar up on bluemound, have your dinner and then walk down the hill to the game... easy peasy)

The logistics for a downtown stadium would make a good "game experience" a lot tougher. Where should I park? Where should I eat before the game? What place isn't too crowded? What time do I need to get there? How long will I have to wait in traffic? etc. etc.

Certainly downtown stadiums can provide a boost for a city... but I like Miller Parks placement because of the "ease of use" and proximity to the majority of the fan base (who live west of the city).

If you want an interesting case study, look at the Metrodome... and watch the new Target Field in Minneapolis. Target field will be a hit for the first 4-5 years... but it will be interesting to see if people get frustrated with the logistics of commuting to a downtown game if/when the team is bad.

[mu_hilltopper]

As for the Metrodome .. Twins fans have already proven (or at least the avg attendance of ~22k of them) that they will make it out to see games in downtown Minneapolis .. i.e. that many already deal with parking and pre-game dining issues.  (Whether another 10-15k more will do so consistently is a better question.)

.. As for the Valley vs. Downtown issue .. you know what?  Sometimes economic development isn't the the end-all/be-all goal.  The taxpayers paid (and continue to pay) for most of that stadium. 

A downtown stadium would have directly equated to a more expensive price-tag for going to a baseball game, whether that's paying 2-5x more for parking, or paying for food at a restaurant, not to mention the cost of the million man-hours lost from traffic for fans and downtown workers alike.

So, did the taxpayers pass up some economic development for the restaurant and parking industries?  Yep.  In return, they got a cheaper price-tag for going to games .. plus they got the enormous factor that many fans desire greatly: tailgating, which for many, is easily 50% of the reason they might even consider going to a game. 

There was a trade-off, yes.  And the citizens (and landlords) and fans who paid for the stadium maximized entertainment and value over economic development.   And that's OK.

[SaintPaulWarrior]

I can't believe those idiots are building an open air stadium.

Not a Twins fan at all....but I am ecstatic they are building an open air stadium.  I can actually go to baseball games again.

"5. The Cell-People who underrate the place don't know how to really enjoy it. If you go, sit in the outfield and enjoy great sightlines and some of the best concession food in baseball. If you have kids, they'll love the place. The renovations have only improved the place more. "

+1 Right on.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

As for the Metrodome .. Twins fans have already proven (or at least the avg attendance of ~22k of them) that they will make it out to see games in downtown Minneapolis .. i.e. that many already deal with parking and pre-game dining issues.  (Whether another 10-15k more will do so consistently is a better question.)

When the team was bad, they rarely drew more than 15,000.

The mid-late 90's for the Twins were pretty lean.

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teams/minnatte.shtml

Logistics obviously aren't the only factor for where to build a stadium, but I think it's one that gets overlooked.

Also, the dome is a terrible place for a game, so that has something to do with it.

A downtown Milwaukee stadium would have required additional road/infrastructure construction to accommodate the additional traffic flow (more tax $$). Also, you have to think that moving the stadium downtown could have helped that neighborhood, but hurt the bluemound bars. So really, you might not be bringing in a ton more $, just moving it downtown instead of out on Bluemound (which might die as a "neighborhood", and then you will need to build another stadium out there :-))

[SaintPaulWarrior]

When the team was bad, they rarely drew more than 15,000.

The mid-late 90's for the Twins were pretty lean.

Also, the dome is a terrible place for a game, so that has something to do with it.

Those late 90's numbers are total tickets sold.  A lot of the time there were only 4-5,000 people at those games.  Sort of like the mid to late 90's when the Vikings were blacked out and could not sell out games.

[WellsstreetWanderer]

Tickets are first row Loge on first base side. A number of us share four seats and love going. None have ever remarked seeing a confrontation.My son and his friends love the back and forth with Giant fans but it is respectful and they certainly get treated worse in San Fran. With  crowds regularly over 45,000 there will always be a few bad apples

I agree with parking sucking except we have reserved right next to entrance. when i go with others, their parking is all over the place. One friend with field tickets has parking on exact opposit side of park.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Those late 90's numbers are total tickets sold.  A lot of the time there were only 4-5,000 people at those games.  Sort of like the mid to late 90's when the Vikings were blacked out and could not sell out games.

Agreed.

The Saints were out-drawing the Twins for a while. It was bad.

However, for any apples to apples comparison (with other teams) I think we can really only look at the announced attendance.

[Brewtown Andy]

Not a Twins fan at all....but I am ecstatic they are building an open air stadium.  I can actually go to baseball games again.

I'm looking forward to all the snowed out games coming to Miller Park.

[mu_hilltopper]

What's crazy about the Twins is that .. while it may have been 15k attendance in the late 90s when they were bad .. the past ~9 years, the Twins have been in the playoff hunt nearly every year and only averaged 22k fans, even while marching toward a pennant.  -- I blame the Metrodome and its location, frankly.

I'm thrilled the new stadium will NOT have a dome of any sort.   That Metrodome has made hairy wet cats out of Minnesotans.   Football especially, should be played outdoors.   If it rains/snows, it rains.   

(Mind you, I grew up in St. Paul, the Twins are my #2 favorite sport team (MU #1) and consider myself a Minnesotan even though I've lived in Cheeseland for (sigh) 22 years.)

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

What's crazy about the Twins is that .. while it may have been 15k attendance in the late 90s when they were bad .. the past ~9 years, the Twins have been in the playoff hunt nearly every year and only averaged 22k fans, even while marching toward a pennant.  -- I blame the Metrodome and its location, frankly.

This is why the new stadium will be a great case study for other cities. Frankly, I'm excited about the new stadium, but I hate the location.

It's just not easy to get to, and the Twin Cities (much like Milwaukee) are full of fans in the 'burbs that drive their cars everywhere. If you don't make it easy for them to go, they won't go (see downtown shopping in both Minneapolis and Milwaukee).

I hope I'm wrong, and I hope my bias against "downtown stadiums" will go away.

[SaintPaulWarrior]

I'm looking forward to all the snowed out games coming to Miller Park.

The notion that MSP is like some Siberian waste land is actually quite comical.  I have lived in Chicago, Milwaukee and MSP and the weather is quite similar, except here there is no lake effect.

[mu-rara]

Bud made a great decision keeping the Park in the Valley.  Captive revenue is keeping the Brewers competitive.  Isn't that what really matters?

[Skatastrophy]

The notion that MSP is like some Siberian waste land is actually quite comical.  I have lived in Chicago, Milwaukee and MSP and the weather is quite similar, except here there is no lake effect.

Looking at historical averages, MSP is about 5 degrees colder than Milwaukee from November through February.    Milwaukee is about 3 degrees colder than Chicago through the same time period.

I don't know if MSP is the tundra, but it's a noticeable difference in temperature over the winter months without the lake.  I mean, even living in the west suburbs of MKE it's downright balmy going downtown for work during the winter. 

[BrewCity83]

The notion that MSP is like some Siberian waste land is actually quite comical.  I have lived in Chicago, Milwaukee and MSP and the weather is quite similar, except here there is no lake effect.

That's why Milwaukee built the retractible roof--beacuse we were sick of sitting in 40-degree weather and worse in April and at night in May.  That's what the Twins fans have to look forward to.

[mu_hilltopper]

After sitting in the Humptydome with that atrocious baggie for 28 years?

40 degree weather in the outdoors will be like manna from heaven.

[SaintPaulWarrior]

That's why Milwaukee built the retractible roof--beacuse we were sick of sitting in 40-degree weather and worse in April and at night in May.  That's what the Twins fans have to look forward to.

40 degrees outside is better than any sterile enclosed baggie.  Never been to the new County Stadium, so I cannot comment on retractable roofs.  Anything is better than the metrodome, weather included.

[jmayer1]

40 degrees outside is better than any sterile enclosed baggie.  Never been to the new County Stadium, so I cannot comment on retractable roofs.  Anything is better than the metrodome, weather included.

The metrodome does suck, but I guarantee Minnesotans will regret not having a retractable roof once a bunch of games get snowed/colded (I don't think that's a word) out during April every year.

[Skatastrophy]

The metrodome does suck, but I guarantee Minnesotans will regret not having a retractable roof once a bunch of games get snowed/colded (I don't think that's a word) out during April every year.

No joke.  Even the Marlins are putting in a dome.  It's beyond me why Minnesota wouldn't want to avoid having to make up games at Miller Park because the weather is too bad up there.

[MDMU04]

This is going to sound like sacrilege, but as a Cubs fan, I hate Wrigley Field.

The location of Wrigley Field has to be the most consistently overrated item in stadium ratings.  Granted, there is absolutely a great deal of fun to be had in Wrigleyville.  If you're a visitor/tourist it has to be an awesome place to visit.  The abundance of bars in the area can make for a great time before and after the game...and even through the rest of the non-baseball season part of the year.

But it's impossible to get to Wrigley Field. Want to drive there?  You are insane.  Parking is an expensive nightmare and traffic is worse.  Mass transit is a little more convenient, but if you come in from the suburbs for a night game you have to leave before the end of the game to catch the Metra train heading home.  Also the Red Line from downtown on a 90 degree summer afternoon can be a far less than pleasant experience packed in one of those cattle cars with your face jammed in someone's armpit to fit everyone on the train.

More than anything, the location of Wrigley Field attracts all the jerks that go to the ball game just to be seen on TV waving to their friends while on their cellphone/wear their popped collar polo shirts and hit on the drunk chicks in the bleachers/stack the mai-tai cups as high as possible and throw up on themselves while being carried out of the ballpark...etc.  These people aren't Cub fans, they're an annoyance.  They're not there to watch the game or participate in anything but a summer party.

Compare a trip to The Cell with a trip to Wrigley.  I'm one of the biggest Cub fans you'll ever meet, and I would so much rather go to a game at US Cellular Field than a Cubs game.  The ballpark is actually a really nice place, the sightlines are awesome, and the best part?  The food is really good.  It's actually a nice atmosphere to go to a game in comparison to all the nonsense that goes on at a Cubs game.  You can tailgate in the parking lot before the game there too, something unheard of around Wrigley Field.

I'm sure I will be berated for my feelings on this topic.  But I know for a fact that I'm not alone here.

[GGGG]

No joke.  Even the Marlins are putting in a dome.  It's beyond me why Minnesota wouldn't want to avoid having to make up games at Miller Park because the weather is too bad up there.

It's because it's Minnesota.  I always thought it was amusing that Wisconsin had three facilities (Miller Park, Lambeau Field and Camp Randall) better than the one place Minnesota used for all three.  Next year at this time, Wisconsin will have three facilties better than Minnesota's three facilities.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

No joke.  Even the Marlins are putting in a dome.  It's beyond me why Minnesota wouldn't want to avoid having to make up games at Miller Park because the weather is too bad up there.

I kinda of agree with you, but please realize it's not like everybody in MN had a choice and chose to go without a roof.

A retractable stadium plan was pitched about 10 years back (maybe a little more) and was voted down because politicians didn't support using tax dollars to fund a stadium. About 5 years ago the Twins were able to get a cheaper outdoor facility on the bill and it passed.

I don't think that it's an indication that "Minnesotans don't want a roof", but rather an indication of the political climate and timing. Big stadium bills are volatile topics for politicians, so trying to make sense of their voting is tough.

Either way, I think a lot of Twins fans know deep down that a retractable roof is a smarter play, but at this point they will take what they can get.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

It's because it's Minnesota.  I always thought it was amusing that Wisconsin had three facilities (Miller Park, Lambeau Field and Camp Randall) better than the one place Minnesota used for all three.  Next year at this time, Wisconsin will have three facilties better than Minnesota's three facilities.

Not to nitpick, but the Gophers stadium and Twins stadium haven't even opened yet.

How do we know that Wisconsin's stadiums are already better? Nobody has even seen the new stadiums yet.