MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: 94Warrior on August 02, 2019, 11:38:48 AM
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1. Joey
2. ODB
3. Trevor Mbawke
4. Harry Froling
5. Todd Mayo
6. Erik Williams
7. Dameon Mason
8. Reggie Smith
9. Jameel McKay
10. James Matthews
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I hate to criticize players individually because they are going through things that I’ll never know or understand.
With that said, the Jameel McKay situation was the most ridiculous thing I’ve seen out of player at Marquette, but from what I heard of some of his Iowa State antics, it was best for the MU program that he left.
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Deonte Burton
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It depends on what kind of "disappointing" you mean.
If you're asking who I was most upset to see transfer, it would be Sam. Not even close.
It you're asking who I felt was much less talented than advertised, it would probably be Harry.
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Harry froling. Maymon. None TBT Derrick Wilson
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JJJ based on ranking.
Transfer after seeing play would be Sam
Transfer and then seeing what they did would be McKay
Disappointing due to injury would be Travis or James.
Due to hype and then being very meh would be Jamil
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Deonte Burton
I left Burton off the list because of the tragedy he was forced to endure. But, solely from a ‘talent walking through that door’ lens, you are correct. Likewise, Liam McMorrow was not on my list.
Sam could/should be on the list, but I appreciated him so darn much for 3 years, I will remember him fondly.
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Ners.
He only averaged 30 ppg for us. I was expecting 50. I mean, he dunked in high school and everything!
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Rob Frozena.
21 points and 17 boards in four seasons is pathetic
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Todd Mayo -- Coulda, shoulda, clearly wasn't.
JJJ -- What did Al used to say about BT, "More wasted talent..."
Henry -- So much there. So little to show for it.
Joey -- What did Tiffany sing, "It all died on a cold November night," right about the time the Baby Hauser discovered the team was not "Joey and the Warriors..."
Harry -- "I come from the Land Down Under" and scurried back after he realized it takes more than size to compete here.
Derrick Wilson -- Even my cocker spaniel could shoot better than THAT!
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1. Joey
2. ODB
3. Trevor Mbawke
4. Harry Froling
5. Todd Mayo
6. Erik Williams
7. Dameon Mason
8. Reggie Smith
9. Jameel McKay
10. James Matthews
Disappointing that he left, but hard to say Joey was an absolute disappointment as a player. Suspect we would be happy to have more frosh have a first year like Joey had. Sure, he had some issues but overall did quite a bit.
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Disappointing that he left, but hard to say Joey was an absolute disappointment as a player. Suspect we would be happy to have more frosh have a first year like Joey had. Sure, he had some issues but overall did quite a bit.
In my mind, he single-handedly submarined what had the potential to be a very special season. Big East Championship thrown away.
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In my mind, he single-handedly submarined what had the potential to be a very special season. Big East Championship thrown away.
Your mind is incorrect. No one threw the season. Marquette lived through a certain playstyle and died through that certain play style.
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Your mind is incorrect. No one threw the season. Marquette lived through a certain playstyle and died through that certain play style.
And it was living very well until two brothers decided to write the coach a letter telling him how to do his job better. Oh, and tried to get their teammates to sign the letter as a petition behind a specific player's back. That's certain to do wonders for team chemistry!
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Your mind is incorrect. No one threw the season. Marquette lived through a certain playstyle and died through that certain play style.
I don't think he ranked the season but he certainly seemed to make a lot of turnovers and boneheaded plays which may have been because he was letting his frustrations and such impact his play.
And it was living very well until two brothers decided to write the coach a letter telling him how to do his job better. Oh, and tried to get their teammates to sign the letter as a petition behind a specific player's back. That's certain to do wonders for team chemistry!
What's the deal with this, did the team sign or no?
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Remember they hype with the kid from Israel? That was interesting.
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Never even heard of James Matthews, which probably explains why he’s on this list.
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Disappointing that he left, but hard to say Joey was an absolute disappointment as a player. Suspect we would be happy to have more frosh have a first year like Joey had. Sure, he had some issues but overall did quite a bit.
An asset on offense on both ends of the floor, just ask Murray State
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Ike Eke. ;)
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1. Joey
2. ODB
3. Trevor Mbawke
4. Harry Froling
5. Todd Mayo
6. Erik Williams
7. Dameon Mason
8. Reggie Smith
9. Jameel McKay
10. James Matthews
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1. Joey
2. ODB
3. Trevor Mbawke
4. Harry Froling
5. Todd Mayo
6. Erik Williams
7. Dameon Mason
8. Reggie Smith
9. Jameel McKay
10. James Matthews
Pretty good list. Has to be Froling, because he was expected to be a "huge difference maker" by some.
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Never even heard of James Matthews, which probably explains why he’s on this list.
I can’t remember who else was after him, but people were really excited about him. Big 6’8” dude from Detroit with the nickname “manchild.” Committed but never played here. Ended up having a pedestrian career at Eastern Michigan.
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/15235/james-matthews
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I can’t remember who else was after him, but people were really excited about him. Big 6’8” dude from Detroit with the nickname “manchild.” Committed but never played here. Ended up having a pedestrian career at Eastern Michigan.
https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/15235/james-matthews
Actually, he was here. Got booted after he punched a coach or teammate.
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It depends on what kind of "disappointing" you mean.
If you're asking who I was most upset to see transfer, it would be Sam. Not even close.
It you're asking who I felt was much less talented than advertised, it would probably be Harry.
Sam's transfer is easily the biggest disappointment for me. It was great to see his game develop over his first three years, and he was set for what could have been a very special season. That was far tougher than seeing someone transfer early on (or before they ever took the court for Marquette).
Joseph Chartouny was probably the biggest disappointment from the standpoint of expectations. He didn't have to be a star coming in. He didn't even have to start. But he was a turnover machine, the last thing you want in a reserve point guard.
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Never even heard of James Matthews, which probably explains why he’s on this list.
Brian Wardle knows him.
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Jameel McKay
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1. Joey
2. ODB
3. Trevor Mbawke
4. Harry Froling
5. Todd Mayo
6. Erik Williams
7. Dameon Mason
8. Reggie Smith
9. Jameel McKay
10. James Matthews
Two late additions, thanks for jogging my memory:
11. Niv Berkowitz
12. Joe Chartouny
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Niv Berkowitz
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Vander Blue. Not disappointing as a player, but for a decision against what might have been.
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Ike eke
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I question, Sam and Joey Hauser. I’m most disappointed.
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(http://www.encestando.com.ar/encestando/images/Ryan%20Amoroso.jpg)
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For me it's Vander... who left for what ultimately amounted to not much.
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Little different list, some guys on here for different reason, as someone said earlier, depends a lot of what your definitely of disappointing is:
Derrick Wilson - in a tough spot, asked to play big-time out of role, I like the Derrick Wilson in the TBT a lot, but that was far from his role at MU
Hauser X 2 - self-explanatory
Juan Anderson - expectations higher, left, came back
Scott Merritt and Jamil Wilson - pretty good Tonto's/Robins, far from great Lone Rangers/Batman's
Jeronne Maymonn - probably more Mr. Maymonn
Dameon Mason - kind of in same category on Hauser's
Odartey Blankson - definitely in same category as Hauser's
John Cliff - always seem to turn it over/miss a shot in big spot
Others considered for various reasons - Froling, Cheatham, JJJ, Steve Taylor, Mayo, Jake Thomas, Buycks (probably cause I was at the game at UL in '11 where he inexplicably tried to score late instead of holding the ball), Tyshawn Taylor (probably more Bob Hurley), Mbakwe, Amaroso, Grimm.
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Some of the players named and singled out are asinine. It’s being personalized to disappointments about decisions players made.
Vander Blue was arguably our best and certainly most clutch player on team that went to Elite 8. Without him, no way are we conference champs that year.
McKay didn’t play a single minute for us. Joey was a major reason for team being top 2 all season in conference.
Judge performance for crying out loud, not a players decision off the court.
For me-
Chartouny- thought we were getting established player who would step in, start at PG and give us all kinds of intangibles that winning teams require.
Terry Sanders- role player at best, but coming out of high school, that was not how he was being projected.
Jay Zulauf- transferred in with Ron Curry, where it seemed he amd Ron would be major pieces in O’Neill’s rebuild. Jay couldn’t play a lick
Froling and Berkowitz, I understand why they’ve been named, but international players are mostly going to be flyers. Otherwise they play pro overseas until their NBA eligible. Neither was any good certainly.
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Forgot Jamail Jones. Believe he was a top 100, maybe even scratching top 50 recruit, rode the bench mostly for Buzz.
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I definitely agree with Eye about Cheatham. I thought he was going to be excellent. He had a nice freshman year and never improved after.
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(http://www.encestando.com.ar/encestando/images/Ryan%20Amoroso.jpg)
He had one stellar night in Alaska. I’ve always felt that was on Crean it didn’t work out for Amoroso at MU. He could play.
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He had one stellar night in Alaska. I’ve always felt that was on Crean it didn’t work out for Amoroso at MU. He could play five card monte.
FIFY
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Wade. I'll never forgive him for declaring early and ruining what should've been a special '03-'04 season.
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For me it was Lloyd Moore. Anybody remember him?
http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2009/05/look-back-marquettes-history-with-top.html (http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2009/05/look-back-marquettes-history-with-top.html)
There may not have been a bigger miss in MU history. Coming out of high school, nearly everyone thought Moore would be great. In addition to the Street and Smith ranking, he was an Adidas and Parade All American as a senior and many predicted that Moore would be the next great MU big man. Instead, he was the biggest bust in MU history, both literally and figuratively.
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For me it was Lloyd Moore. Anybody remember him?
http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2009/05/look-back-marquettes-history-with-top.html (http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2009/05/look-back-marquettes-history-with-top.html)
Yeup, Chocolate Moose!
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Yeup, Chocolate Moose!
I had a friend who called him 'Dinty' Moore. His first game against Minnesota is burned into my memory.
MU lost 100-66 and Lloyd got owned by Randy Breuer in the paint on his first shot attempt.
Gallows humor from the MU hopeful ensued until he transferred to Rutgers.
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Amo
JjJ
Froling
Chartouny
James Matthews
Dameon Mason
Mbakwe
Gardner never figuring out how to be a two way player
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Chardonnay......no doubt.
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Amo
JjJ
Froling
Chartouny
James Matthews
Dameon Mason
Mbakwe
Gardner never figuring out how to be a two way player
Mbakwe- Crean stupidly lifted his redshirt when he was nowhere near 100% healthy and then he decided to transfer. What was disappointing about him other than you wished he would have stayed?!
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I’m going with JJJ. He was ranked 40- something coming out of HS if I recall correctly.
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I’m going with JJJ. He was ranked 40- something coming out of HS if I recall correctly.
#32
https://247sports.com/player/jajuan-johnson-19409/
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#32
https://247sports.com/player/jajuan-johnson-19409/
Now I’m even more disappointed! Never had any intensity. I recall him getting benched for poor practice performance.
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Now I’m even more disappointed! Never had any intensity. I recall him getting benched for poor practice performance.
After beating #1 Villanova, the team swooned during the next couple of games. There was a week off before the next game and Wojo announced that every position was up for grabs and would be decided by how hard a player worked the next week in practice. JjJ reportedly showed up late for practice, which led to a DNP-CD in the following game.
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Some of the players named and singled out are asinine. It’s being personalized to disappointments about decisions players made.
Vander Blue was arguably our best and certainly most clutch player on team that went to Elite 8. Without him, no way are we conference champs that year.
McKay didn’t play a single minute for us. Joey was a major reason for team being top 2 all season in conference.
Judge performance for crying out loud, not a players decision off the court.
For me-
Chartouny- thought we were getting established player who would step in, start at PG and give us all kinds of intangibles that winning teams require.
Terry Sanders- role player at best, but coming out of high school, that was not how he was being projected.
Jay Zulauf- transferred in with Ron Curry, where it seemed he amd Ron would be major pieces in O’Neill’s rebuild. Jay couldn’t play a lick
Froling and Berkowitz, I understand why they’ve been named, but international players are mostly going to be flyers. Otherwise they play pro overseas until their NBA eligible. Neither was any good certainly.
Agree with almost all of this post, Hutch.
Given expectations, biggest disappointments for me were Jamil, Chartouney and a maybe couple of Buzz's top-100 recruits who never panned out. So far, I'd call Cain at least a mild disappointment; I was really expecting him to take his game up a notch as a sophomore after he ended his freshman season quite strongly.
And Froling. I hear what you're saying about international players, but even Bilas -- whose opinions I usually respect -- was talking up Froling. Even if he was just parroting his buddy Wojo, that means Bilas AND Wojo were hyping a player who ended up sucking bigly.
As for Lloyd Moore ... the thread is asking for post-2000 players. But sure, if you look up "bust" in the dictionary, Lloyd's huge melon would be pictured there.
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After beating #1 Villanova, the team swooned during the next couple of games. There was a week off before the next game and Wojo announced that every position was up for grabs and would be decided by how hard a player worked the next week in practice. JjJ reportedly showed up late for practice, which led to a DNP-CD in the following game.
And that was his senior year. He was already a pretty big disappointment prior for being the #32 recruit.
In fact I'm just going to say the whole 2013 class JJJ, Duane, Deonte, Fischer, Dawson.
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As for Lloyd Moore ... the thread is asking for post-2000 players.
Oops, thanks for pointing that out, scratch out Zulauf.
My final list is Chartouney, T Sanders, Jamail Jones, amd Cheatham
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After beating #1 Villanova, the team swooned during the next couple of games. There was a week off before thje next game and Wojo announced that every position was up for grabs and would be decided by how hard a player worked the next week in practice. JjJ reportedly showed up late for practice, which led to a DNP-CD in the following game.
Wojo has become an expert at swoons.
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No Erik Williams mention yet? Top 100 recruit who ended up being a meh player at Sam Houston State
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Yeup, Chocolate Moose!
Lloyd Moore Food
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No Erik Williams mention yet? Top 100 recruit who ended up being a meh player at Sam Houston State
Jamal Jones was ranked higher to my recollection but both are probably equal in that regard.
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No Erik Williams mention yet? Top 100 recruit who ended up being a meh player at Sam Houston State
2 games does not even qualify for a “meh”. ;)
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As for Lloyd Moore ... the thread is asking for post-2000 players. But sure, if you look up "bust" in the dictionary, Lloyd's huge melon would be pictured there.
Sorry, got riled up! :-[
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The thing I remember about Erik Williams is his high school coach saying he couldn't play man to man defense but would be able to learn it.
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Agree with almost all of this post, Hutch.
Given expectations, biggest disappointments for me were Jamil, Chartouney and a maybe couple of Buzz's top-100 recruits who never panned out. So far, I'd call Cain at least a mild disappointment; I was really expecting him to take his game up a notch as a sophomore after he ended his freshman season quite strongly.
And Froling. I hear what you're saying about international players, but even Bilas -- whose opinions I usually respect -- was talking up Froling. Even if he was just parroting his buddy Wojo, that means Bilas AND Wojo were hyping a player who ended up sucking bigly.
As for Lloyd Moore ... the thread is asking for post-2000 players. But sure, if you look up "bust" in the dictionary, Lloyd's huge melon would be pictured there.
No you don't just judge performance to be disappointed. It can be off the court too. A guy who did not fulfill any of the expectations on or off the court. If you meant just as a player, then specify that.
What are you typing about here? Why are you telling people how to answer? In fact, for me Dameon Mason is up there for me and he lasted for only two weeks in college....he was still a disappointment that he did not continue as an MU player.
Jamail Jones
Dameon Mason
Traci Carter
Ousmane Barro
Froling
Todd Townsend
Todd Mayo* Probably heads my list of being the guy who disappointed me most on not meeting my expectations for him or the teams.
These are just some that come to mind. In the case of Ousmane Barro I think they should have played him more and got more of the raw deal of anyone while he was here even if all he could do was be long. He was a great guy so I was more disappointed in how he was handled.
On the flip side the player I am most proud of guy on MU since 2000 to me had to be Chris Otule. Hands down...in case anyone cares.
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can't imagine why otule is on this list. don't remember him coming in as a top 50 or anything. chris was a decent role player who adapted well to his shortcomings
chartouney , frohling and mayo
nothing personal here-they were built up for us to have higher expectations than were not even close to being met.
harry-i remember the excuse making for harry-oh, he is just nervous or is getting used to the system or the life outside of the down under or...he's spending too much time down unda :D
chartouney-we kept getting highlight films of him playing against little sisters of the poor and had us all geeked up. then he comes to play with the big dogs and...
mayo-showed flashes of meeting expectations when he showed some discipline, but that seemed to be difficult for him to abide by
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Crean sucks
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The Hausers!!!
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No you don't just judge performance to be disappointed. It can be off the court too. A guy who did not fulfill any of the expectations on or off the court. If you meant just as a player, then specify that.
What are you typing about here? Why are you telling people how to answer? In fact, for me Dameon Mason is up there for me and he lasted for only two weeks in college....he was still a disappointment that he did not continue as an MU player.
Mason, who is #1 on my list, played for us for two years, not weeks (remember the game winner against L-ville on senior day?). I knew many who had him rated above Chicago HS rival, Shannon Brown, who went on to Michigan State and eventually the Lakers. Mason believed he was the next Dwyane Wade and just had to show up and play that way. His teammates, justifiably, hated his attitude.
Mayo, for me, wasn’t a disappointment, Buzz was taking him and allowing him to get away with everything. He was was who he was and never should have been a Golden Eagle.
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He had one stellar night in Alaska. I’ve always felt that was on Crean it didn’t work out for Amoroso at MU. He could play.
No, it was on Amo. He had a massive entitlement complex. The staff said the worst thing that happened was that 30 and 13 in Alaska as his ego grew out of control. The last we saw him was when Sam Young posterized him at the BC.
DJ was a bit of a disappointment to me. He peaked as a freshman and never improved his FT stroke. 46% as a senior is brutal., even worse for a PG.
I don’t get the Derek Wilson hate. He was never anything more than a role player coming out of HS. A backup PG was all he was meant to be and that’s how he performed.
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No you don't just judge performance to be disappointed. It can be off the court too. A guy who did not fulfill any of the expectations on or off the court. If you meant just as a player, then specify that.
What are you typing about here? Why are you telling people how to answer? In fact, for me Dameon Mason is up there for me and he lasted for only two weeks in college....he was still a disappointment that he did not continue as an MU player.
Jamail Jones
Dameon Mason
Traci Carter
Ousmane Barro
Froling
Todd Townsend
Todd Mayo* Probably heads my list of being the guy who disappointed me most on not meeting my expectations for him or the teams.
These are just some that come to mind. In the case of Ousmane Barro I think they should have played him more and got more of the raw deal of anyone while he was here even if all he could do was be long. He was a great guy so I was more disappointed in how he was handled.
On the flip side the player I am most proud of guy on MU since 2000 to me had to be Chris Otule. Hands down...in case anyone cares.
I think you meant to address this to Hutch, but you certainly are allowed your opinion.
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Letter writers
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No, it was on Amo. He had a massive entitlement complex. The staff said the worst thing that happened was that 30 and 13 in Alaska as his ego grew out of control. The last we saw him was when Sam Young posterized him at the BC.
DJ was a bit of a disappointment to me. He peaked as a freshman and never improved his FT stroke. 46% as a senior is brutal., even worse for a PG.
I don’t get the Derek Wilson hate. He was never anything more than a role player coming out of HS. A backup PG was all he was meant to be and that’s how he performed.
Remember that idiotic foul Amo had on a FT rebound situation late game against Louisville.
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Remember that idiotic foul Amo had on a FT rebound situation late game against Louisville.
I do now, thanks! I attributed that to roid rage.
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Mbao
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These are just some that come to mind. In the case of Ousmane Barro I think they should have played him more and got more of the raw deal of anyone while he was here even if all he could do was be long. He was a great guy so I was more disappointed in how he was handled.
Excellent point. Agree 100%.
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Mbao
I just never expected anything from the guy. So I really couldn't be disappointed.
To me this is Harry Froling in a runaway.
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To me this is Harry Froling in a runaway.
When I thought of Froling first, I wondered if I was guilty of recency bias. But facts are facts: He was hyped considerably, including by Bilas, and then he (Froling, not Bilas) delivered a big, fat turd.
Not many bigger disappointments since 2000 IMHO.
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Mine are all players that transferred, just really disappointed it didn't work out.
ODB
Dameon Mason
Mbkwe
Maymon
Hauser's
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Here's my list:
PG: Reggie Smith Smith was a high 3-star, but left unexpectedly despite getting starts as a freshman and never caught on anywhere else. Just edges out Traci Carter, who at least was able to earn D1 minutes.
SG: Jamal Ferguson He was a top-100, 4-star player when he committed. By the time he got to campus, he had dropped to a 2-star who we apparently offered too early, and by the next year he was gone. He tried to reboot at NC Central, but even there couldn't earn many minutes.
SF: Jamail Jones Top-100 recruit who, on paper, looked ideal. He could shoot, dunk, and had great length. And yet on the court, he never really did anything. He was okay at FGCU, but a disaster here.
PF: Erik Williams Top-100 recruit whose most significant role was getting thrown out there for a few token minutes so Jae Crowder didn't get an early foul. Was bad here and not much better at Sam Houston State. Wildly overrated.
C: Harry Froling Definitely felt like we were sold a bill of goods. Listening to the staff and Jay Bilas, he sounded like a physical guy who could rebound, shoot the three, and basically replace Henry Ellenson. Instead he didn't look like he belonged on the floor and was gone by the year's end. It's not all bad, though, he's still an entertaining Twitter follow.
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Here's my list:
PG: Reggie Smith Smith was a high 3-star, but left unexpectedly despite getting starts as a freshman and never caught on anywhere else. Just edges out Traci Carter, who at least was able to earn D1 minutes
Smith transferred to Eastern Illinois and averaged 13.1 points and 3.3 assists a game as a junior.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/reggie-smith-2.html
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Here's my list:
PG: Reggie Smith Smith was a high 3-star, but left unexpectedly despite getting starts as a freshman and never caught on anywhere else. Just edges out Traci Carter, who at least was able to earn D1 minutes.
SG: Jamal Ferguson He was a top-100, 4-star player when he committed. By the time he got to campus, he had dropped to a 2-star who we apparently offered too early, and by the next year he was gone. He tried to reboot at NC Central, but even there couldn't earn many minutes.
SF: Jamail Jones Top-100 recruit who, on paper, looked ideal. He could shoot, dunk, and had great length. And yet on the court, he never really did anything. He was okay at FGCU, but a disaster here.
PF: Erik Williams Top-100 recruit whose most significant role was getting thrown out there for a few token minutes so Jae Crowder didn't get an early foul. Was bad here and not much better at Sam Houston State. Wildly overrated.
C: Harry Froling Definitely felt like we were sold a bill of goods. Listening to the staff and Jay Bilas, he sounded like a physical guy who could rebound, shoot the three, and basically replace Henry Ellenson. Instead he didn't look like he belonged on the floor and was gone by the year's end. It's not all bad, though, he's still an entertaining Twitter follow.
Didn't realize Ferguson was that highly rated when he committed. I only remember him being lowly rated coming in
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C: Harry Froling Definitely felt like we were sold a bill of goods. Listening to the staff and Jay Bilas, he sounded like a physical guy who could rebound, shoot the three, and basically replace Henry Ellenson. Instead he didn't look like he belonged on the floor and was gone by the year's end. It's not all bad, though, he's still an entertaining Twitter follow.
I enjoyed all of the articles this spring/summer about Froling's NBA chances. He apparently worked out for 16 NBA teams, none of them bit, but (supposedly) that's just because teams are waiting a year until he's out from under his NBL contract. Basically, every article still reads like he's the second coming of Bogut, but those darn college coaches just wouldn't let him play his game and use his superior basketball IQ...
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I enjoyed all of the articles this spring/summer about Froling's NBA chances. He apparently worked out for 16 NBA teams, none of them bit, but (supposedly) that's just because teams are waiting a year until he's out from under his NBL contract. Basically, every article still reads like he's the second coming of Bogut, but those darn college coaches just wouldn't let him play his game and use his superior basketball IQ...
Which is the entire basis of my disappointment. This wasn't a college freshman who flamed out. That happens all the time.
This was a guy who was a transfer from another D1 program who was hyped up big time. Not only could the dude not really play, but he was basically a pud that everyone wanted out of the program.
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Which is the entire basis of my disappointment. This wasn't a college freshman who flamed out. That happens all the time.
This was a guy who was a transfer from another D1 program who was hyped up big time. Not only could the dude not really play, but he was basically a pud that everyone wanted out of the program.
When you say this, do just mean posters here, or were there people within the program that wanted him gone as well, because he seemed like a decent teammate, he just didn't have the skillset necessary.
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When you say this, do just mean posters here, or were there people within the program that wanted him gone as well, because he seemed like a decent teammate, he just didn't have the skillset necessary.
A number of players and coaches were tired of his lack of effort and attitude.
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A number of players and coaches were tired of his lack of effort and attitude.
Really? I don't remember any stories about that. I do remember comments about how he used his year off to drop a lot of his baby fat, and actually get into shape.
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Let's just say Harry's view of himself was a little... inflated. Had heard stopped going to class because he was leaving anyway, and was told by the staff to get his sh*t together or be launched during the season.
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Let's just say Harry's view of himself was a little... inflated. Had heard stopped going to class because he was leaving anyway, and was told by the staff to get his sh*t together or be launched during the season.
I knew that the endgame in his eyes was to get paid, I just assumed he figured out that he'd never make the NBA and wanted to start making Aussie money earlier. If he really started ditching class then it was probably best for all parties to move on.
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Here's my list:
PG: Reggie Smith Smith was a high 3-star, but left unexpectedly despite getting starts as a freshman and never caught on anywhere else. Just edges out Traci Carter, who at least was able to earn D1 minutes.
SG: Jamal Ferguson He was a top-100, 4-star player when he committed. By the time he got to campus, he had dropped to a 2-star who we apparently offered too early, and by the next year he was gone. He tried to reboot at NC Central, but even there couldn't earn many minutes.
SF: Jamail Jones Top-100 recruit who, on paper, looked ideal. He could shoot, dunk, and had great length. And yet on the court, he never really did anything. He was okay at FGCU, but a disaster here.
PF: Erik Williams Top-100 recruit whose most significant role was getting thrown out there for a few token minutes so Jae Crowder didn't get an early foul. Was bad here and not much better at Sam Houston State. Wildly overrated.
C: Harry Froling Definitely felt like we were sold a bill of goods. Listening to the staff and Jay Bilas, he sounded like a physical guy who could rebound, shoot the three, and basically replace Henry Ellenson. Instead he didn't look like he belonged on the floor and was gone by the year's end. It's not all bad, though, he's still an entertaining Twitter follow.
Interesting take, brewski. That's 4 Buzz recruits, including 3 top-100s. I still think Buzz was a very good coach at MU. Stuff happens.
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Interesting take, brewski. That's 4 Buzz recruits, including 3 top-100s. I still think Buzz was a very good coach at MU. Stuff happens.
Off the floor that list was a disappointment too.
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Interesting take, brewski. That's 4 Buzz recruits, including 3 top-100s. I still think Buzz was a very good coach at MU. Stuff happens.
Buzz did a great job of getting Jucos and other transfers. That was his legacy at MU.
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Buzz fell in love with an archetype that didn't always pan out. Especially at the high school level.
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Buzz did a great job of getting Jucos and other transfers. That was his legacy at MU.
And those count, for sure, just as transfers do.
I don't like it when some say Wojo is only a "mediocre" recruiter but don't count Rowsey, Reinhardt, Carlino, etc. That's 3 good players, in addition to the HS recruits he signed.
Same with Buzz. He built a team his way, and did so using the rules that the school allowed at the time. Mostly very fond memories of his time at MU and the players he brought in.
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And those count, for sure, just as transfers do.
I don't like it when some say Wojo is only a "mediocre" recruiter but don't count Rowsey, Reinhardt, Carlino, etc. That's 3 good players, in addition to the HS recruits he signed.
Same with Buzz. He built a team his way, and did so using the rules that the school allowed at the time. Mostly very fond memories of his time at MU and the players he brought in.
Guess I should have been clearer in distinguishing between HS recruits and transfer of varying kinds. Both work, just noting that Buzz earned his chops here via the transfer route.
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Buzz has the biggest disappointments. And the best teams/most success. Speaks volumes.
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Interesting take, brewski. That's 4 Buzz recruits, including 3 top-100s. I still think Buzz was a very good coach at MU. Stuff happens.
I don't think Buzz was a good high school recruiter at all. He focused too much on effort guys, which didn't work when the talent didn't match the effort. He's grown in that regard, which was seen in his last couple classes here (Burton/Duane/JJ & Hill/Shayok/Cohen) but he missed more often than not early on, even on top-100s.
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In my book there is no such thing as a disappointing player. All these kids work their a&*sses off to be the best they can be. I am 100 percent for the players.
I reserve my grievances for the coaches.
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In my book there is no such thing as a disappointing player. All these kids work their a&*sses off to be the best they can be. I am 100 percent for the players.
I reserve my grievances for the coaches.
So coaches don't work their a&*sses off to be the best they can be? Or are they just not deserving of the same respect?
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So coaches don't work their a&*sses off to be the best they can be? Or are they just not deserving of the same respect?
The coaches are not deserving of the same respect. The coach has complete dominion over the player . So the relationship is not one of perfect symmetry.
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In my book there is no such thing as a disappointing player. All these kids work their a&*sses off to be the best they can be. I am 100 percent for the players.
I reserve my grievances for the coaches.
Yeah, no. Dameon Mason was a perfect example of that.
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The coaches are not deserving of the same respect. The coach has complete dominion over the player . So the relationship is not one of perfect symmetry.
What does that have to do with anything? Because the players have a boss they deserve respect but because the coaches have a different boss they don't deserve respect?
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Interesting take, brewski. That's 4 Buzz recruits, including 3 top-100s. I still think Buzz was a very good coach at MU. Stuff happens.
Which makes my point exactly...people get so excited about "top 100" recruits...even if they are ranked 89 or 94...You have to be careful with those types of guys. The higher up the rankings you go, the LESS chance(though never guaranteed) of being a bust.
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What does that have to do with anything? Because the players have a boss they deserve respect but because the coaches have a different boss they don't deserve respect?
I don't think Herman means they don't deserve respect, only that given their age, experience, control and compensation they are subject to scrutiny and criticism that (in his opinion) players aren't. Agree or disagree, it's not unreasonable.
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I don't think Herman means they don't deserve respect, only that given their age, experience, control and compensation they are subject to scrutiny and criticism that (in his opinion) players aren't. Agree or disagree, it's not unreasonable.
I agree with the idea that coaches should be under way more scrutiny than the players, but I completely disagree with Herman's assertion that "there is no such thing as a disappointing player," and that "All these kids work their a&*sses off to be the best they can be."
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I agree with the idea that coaches should be under way more scrutiny than the players, but I completely disagree with Herman's assertion that "there is no such thing as a disappointing player," and that "All these kids work their a&*sses off to be the best they can be."
Sums up where I am on this, too.
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It saddens me to see Chartouny's name on so many of these lists. Personally I never had big expectations for him based on everything I read at the time of his transfer, and to their credit, I don't recall the MU Athletics Press Staff making THAT big of a deal about it either. At least that was my interpretation. Of course they had to issue a release with the usual obligatory quotes from the head coach about what a fine young man he is, his impressive stats and distinguished career at another Jesuit D1 institution, but admittedly in a much less competitive conference, and how much his experience will help our younger players blah blah blah.
From my vantage point, Joe was an experienced and intelligent back up player who performed his duties as well as expected. As with everyone, he had some really solid games and a few duds. If nothing else, he proved that he could hold his own on the court and that there was a meaningful, if not impactful, role for him to play on a high major D1 roster. If one were to ask him, was transferring to a high major D1 program for that PG year worth it, there's no doubt he would say yes absolutely!
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Buzz did a great job of getting Jucos and other transfers. That was his legacy at MU.
Buzz's real forte was riding a Texas longhorn and screaming "yippie kye yeh"
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Due to hype and then being very meh would be Jamil
I just can't include Jamil in the disappointing ratings because while the stats we're certainly below expectations, he was part of a great Elite 8 run. Everyone seems so sour on the year after, but Derrick was asked to change from defensive stopper to floor general - which let defenses double with Jamil or someone else,.the schedule was set up before knowing such a key player would bail etc. I just always felt like Jamil and his classmates should have been celebrated for the elite 8 and instead it seemed like many said they were happy to see them go with the "what have you done for me lately?" Approach.
Jamil also did only score a couple a game that freshman yr at Oregon, so I did t have the same expectations I would have had if he came to MU as a freshman.
Just my (likely minority).opinion.