Wojo

[Pakuni]

I posted the link in another thread

That link doesn't say Howland is out of the picture, nor does it say it's Martin's job if he wants it. It says MU is talking with Martin, something we've known would occur for some time now.

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

Let's be more worried about getting the right guy than the guy who's name is going to be most recognizable on SportsCenter.

Agreed, but let's create an addendum that states:  New coach should be able to solidify in-state recruiting efforts and be able to keep those top 100 in-state recruits @ MU.  In other words, get the Dynamic Dominican Duo of Diamond Stone and Kostas Antetokounmpo to sign @ MU.  I don't care who it is anymore.  If the person they get can do that, I"m on board 100%, even if I have sandbagged them in the past.  

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Agreed, but let's create an addendum that states:  New coach should be able to solidify in-state recruiting efforts and be able to keep those top 100 in-state recruits @ MU.  In other words, get the Dynamic Dominican Duo of Diamond Stone and Kostas Antetokounmpo to sign @ MU.  I don't care who it is anymore.  If the person they get can do that, I"m on board 100%, even if I have sandbagged them in the past.  

I agree that their ability to recruit should be a major factor. I think Wojo has plenty of experience reeling in guys like Stone and Ante...holy crap that's a lot of letters...mpo. Marquette isn't Duke but I think Wojo understands how these kids' minds work

[Pakuni]

TAMU, my concern is that when you are at DUKE things are just a lot easier.  You select, you don't recruit.  It's a bubble.  He, in particular, has NEVER been outside of that bubble which is concerning.

This just isn't true. Quite the opposite ... Duke goes against the best recruiters from the best schools - Kentucky, UNC, Florida, Kansas, Arizona, Syracuse, etc. - for the top talent in the country. Recruiting battles with Bo Ryan and John Groce should be a piece of cake compared to Bill Self, Billy Donovan and John Calipari.

And while the coaching ability of other Duke assistants can be questioned, most of them were very good recruiters as head coaches. Amaker landed McDonald's AAs at Seton Hall. Capel landed four of them at Oklahoma. Brey has landed four McDonald's AAs at Notre Dame. Snyder landed a bunch of top 50 players (and one Burger Boy) at Mizzou. Chris Collins' first class at Northwestern includes a top 100 kid.

Is the Duke bubble a soft bubble?  

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

This just isn't true. Quite the opposite ... Duke goes against the best recruiters from the best schools - Kentucky, UNC, Florida, Kansas, Arizona, Syracuse, etc. - for the top talent in the country. Recruiting battles with Bo Ryan and John Groce should be a piece of cake compared to Bill Self, Billy Donovan and John Calipari.

And while the coaching ability of other Duke assistants can be questioned, most of them were very good recruiters as head coaches. Amaker landed McDonald's AAs at Seton Hall. Capel landed four of them at Oklahoma. Brey has landed four McDonald's AAs at Notre Dame. Snyder landed a bunch of top 50 players (and one Burger Boy) at Mizzou. Chris Collins' first class at Northwestern includes a top 100 kid.

Is the Duke bubble a soft bubble?  

Based on Duke's recruiting and their recent NCAA tourney debacles, I'm quite skeptical.  For all of the top 10 classes they recruit, they sure as hell haven't had equivalent success in the tournament. 

[Marqus Howard]

Based on Duke's recruiting and their recent NCAA tourney debacles, I'm quite skeptical.  For all of the top 10 classes they recruit, they sure as hell haven't had equivalent success in the tournament. 

Didn't they win the tournament 4 years ago?

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

Didn't they win the tournament 4 years ago?

2010–11   Mike Krzyzewski   32–5   13–3   2nd   NCAA Sweet Sixteen
2011–12   Mike Krzyzewski   27-7   13-3   2nd   NCAA Round of 64
2012–13   Mike Krzyzewski   30-6   14-4   2nd   NCAA Elite Eight
2013–14   Mike Krzyzewski   26-8   13-5   3rd   NCAA Round of 64

My point is that..... Wojo isn't going to have the same level of success.  With the amount of top talent Duke gets.....  They should be elite 8 consistently.  They've been knocked out in the first round 2 out the last 4 years. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

This just isn't true. Quite the opposite ... Duke goes against the best recruiters from the best schools - Kentucky, UNC, Florida, Kansas, Arizona, Syracuse, etc. - for the top talent in the country. Recruiting battles with Bo Ryan and John Groce should be a piece of cake compared to Bill Self, Billy Donovan and John Calipari.

And while the coaching ability of other Duke assistants can be questioned, most of them were very good recruiters as head coaches. Amaker landed McDonald's AAs at Seton Hall. Capel landed four of them at Oklahoma. Brey has landed four McDonald's AAs at Notre Dame. Snyder landed a bunch of top 50 players (and one Burger Boy) at Mizzou. Chris Collins' first class at Northwestern includes a top 100 kid.

Is the Duke bubble a soft bubble?  

Duke day in and day out is recruiting for 5 star kids with some 4 stars.  We'll have to agree to disagree on how much easier it is.  There are only 3 to 4 spots open on a roster each year, you aren't going to get them all and when you go after kids in their backyard that has a strong appeal, of course that is tough to get them.  The point remains that when Duke is interested, the athlete is going to listen to that call 99% of the time and that isn't the case at MU.  It's a different world.

To put it in different terms, coaches at Duke are in a silver spoon in mouth world vs many other schools.  That has nothing to do with the socio economic conditions at Duke, even if that lines up nicely as well.  I'm talking about access to the best recruits in the nation and what the Duke name brings.  Sure, they have to slug it out with Kentucky, UCLA and local kids in Illinois or Texas or Florida.  At the end of the day, when they lose a 5 star kid to Kentucky, they land a 5 star kid of their own.  They are essentially selecting and when they miss the end up with a great kid anyway.

This isn't the case at MU.  Duke is in a bubble.  When you have 7 five star kids targeted and all your efforts are on those 7 kids, you only land 3 of them....less than 50% but you ended up ........ all 5 star kids.   

[Aughnanure]

When you are a recruiting assistant at Duke University, shouldn't you be a little higher than 17th?  Shouldn't you be top 10 at a minimum and maybe top 5?

It's Duke for crying out loud.

I think you may have just answered your own question. He may not be as highly ranked because people see "DUKE" behind his name.

[Aughnanure]

Yes, got in some recruiting trouble.  He resigned and hasn't coached in DI since, instead opting for the NBA and other teams.

Snyder could have been a very good coach if he didn't become a Coke addict. I still think Mizzou gets too much crap for hiring him. Was a great hire that jut didn't work out, unfortunately in a terribly embarrassing way for the university.

[Silkk the Shaka]

Snyder could have been a very good coach if he didn't become a Coke addict. I still think Mizzou gets too much crap for hiring him. Was a great hire that jut didn't work out, unfortunately in a terribly embarrassing way for the university.

Was that what went down there? I wasn't as plugged in to college hoops at that point.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I think you may have just answered your own question. He may not be as highly ranked because people see "DUKE" behind his name.

Maybe, but then why are some people at brands like Duke rated higher  Wouldn't the same logic apply?

One site, called NextUpRecruits ranks the top 5 assistants per conference in recruiting.  The number one assistant in the ACC is from Duke, so that goes counter to what you and Pakuni are stating.  By the way, it isn't Wojo, it's Jeff Capel.  Wojo doesn't make the top 5 in the ACC.

Wojo might be the guy, I worry he has never been anywhere else but stuck in the bubble of Duke which is different than 95% of the college basketball world.  How good is he at tracking down talent that isn't there for him to select.  Not that hard when you recruit at a school and the players you go after are also targeted by Florida, UCLA, Kentucky, etc....it's a given they are really good.  How is his eye for talent for guys that are the next level or two levels down, kids that Duke doesn't waste their time with but MU has to.

[Aughnanure]

Maybe, but then why are some people at brands like Duke rated higher  Wouldn't the same logic apply?

One site, called NextUpRecruits ranks the top 5 assistants per conference in recruiting.  The number one assistant in the ACC is from Duke, so that goes counter to what you and Pakuni are stating.  By the way, it isn't Wojo, it's Jeff Capel.  Wojo doesn't make the top 5 in the ACC.

Wojo might be the guy, I worry he has never been anywhere else but stuck in the bubble of Duke which is different than 95% of the college basketball world.  How good is he at tracking down talent that isn't there for him to select.  Not that hard when you recruit at a school and the players you go after are also targeted by Florida, UCLA, Kentucky, etc....it's a given they are really good.  How is his eye for talent for guys that are the next level or two levels down, kids that Duke doesn't waste their time with but MU has to.

Wait, where is this ranking? I only see the Paint Touches link...

I also think the fact that he's been there so long, some may not get the credit he deserves...but also that works vice-versa. Some may be giving him more credit that he deserves because it's Duke. It's hard to cut through the fog. If we go assistant, Stephens from MSU intrigues me more.

[ChicosBailBonds]

http://nextuprecruits.com

On the Paint Touches comment about him being 17th, would love to know who the other 16 are.

Honestly, however, who does one even come up with these rankings, from any of these sites? 

[Aughnanure]

Was that what went down there? I wasn't as plugged in to college hoops at that point.

I'm from Kansas City, so it was a HUGE scandal when it came down and took over sports talk for almost a whole season. The Ricky Clemons thing was what brought him down completely, but that wasn't all on Quin - the Mizzou President and higher-ups had a lot to do with that (literally got injured riding around in the President's ATV at his home).

And yeah, the big rumor was the Quin was on coke.

[Pakuni]

Duke day in and day out is recruiting for 5 star kids with some 4 stars.  We'll have to agree to disagree on how much easier it is.  There are only 3 to 4 spots open on a roster each year, you aren't going to get them all and when you go after kids in their backyard that has a strong appeal, of course that is tough to get them.  The point remains that when Duke is interested, the athlete is going to listen to that call 99% of the time and that isn't the case at MU.  It's a different world.

I don't disagree with this.
However, those five-star kids that are taking Duke's phone calls are also taking phone calls from Kentucky, Kansas, Florida, Louisville, etc.  Simply put, while the Duke name helps getting access to a recruit, the level of recruit they go after means the quality of competition that a Duke assistant faces on the recruiting trail is significantly better than that a Marquette assistant (or, say, a Wichita State head coach) faces.

To land Sandy Cohen, MU had to beat out  Creighton, Green Bay and Minnesota.
MU's main competiton for Ahmed Hill was Mizzou. To land Malek Harris, MU beat out DePaul and Kansas State.

To land Jahlil Okafor and Tyus Jones, Duke had to beat Kansas and Kentucky. To land Justise Winslow, Duke had to beat Arizona and Florida. To get Grayson Allen, Duke had to beat out a homestate Florida.

So yeah, the Duke name helps a ton, but it also means they're competing for recruits at a different level than MU. (obligatory Opening Day reference) Duke assistants go up against top of the rotation starters on the recruiting trail; MU assistants face #5 guys and AAA call-ups.

[ChicosBailBonds]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=pearlman/080418


http://sports.yahoo.com/news/last-shot-snyders-second-chance-175600637--nba.html


http://mizzoufans.blogspot.com/2006/02/lowlights-of-quins-career.html