Buzz has got to learn....

[Stretchdeltsig]

Let's leave it, that Buzz simply coached poorly this year. 

[willie warrior]

They could have kept Derrick's minutes the same and simply played Gardner and Mayo more consistently and had 4-6 more wins this year.  EVERY statistical measure bears it out and yet we're 17-14.

I hope Buzz truly believes what he says about making these kids better men because if he continues to ignore the concrete evidence regarding the real talent on this team he'll be making sure his highschool players are becoming better men rather than coaching at the Division 1 level in college.  He doesn't get paid 2.5M/year to make sure his guys are slightly better people before they got here.  You can rationalize that thought if you wish but he's getting paid to win first, foremost and only for that matter.

And 17-14 deserves a pay cut.

[Stretchdeltsig]

True.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

And 17-14 deserves a pay cut.

Only if we gave him a pay raise for the Elite 8

[Golden Avalanche]

Only if we gave him a pay raise for the Elite 8

Of course he got a pay rise. It's the only way MU can fend off the vultures.

[Stretchdeltsig]

There's no concern after this season.  Maybe he will volunteer for a pay cut.  We need him to up his coaching next year.

[Lennys Tap]

They could have kept Derrick's minutes the same and simply played Gardner and Mayo more consistently and had 4-6 more wins this year.  EVERY statistical measure bears it out and yet we're 17-14.

I hope Buzz truly believes what he says about making these kids better men because if he continues to ignore the concrete evidence regarding the real talent on this team he'll be making sure his highschool players are becoming better men rather than coaching at the Division 1 level in college.  He doesn't get paid 2.5M/year to make sure his guys are slightly better people before they got here.  You can rationalize that thought if you wish but he's getting paid to win first, foremost and only for that matter.

Matty, I agree with you on Mayo. His game demands more PT. But he has been academically ineligible for a semester and suspended for his behavior twice. He got the most minutes Buzz has ever given a freshmen and then screwed himself and his teammates with his performance in the classroom and off the court. I think for the long range good of the program (and for Todd) it's only right that he earned his way back to big minutes.

Regarding Davante's minutes, assuming 30 "offensive" minutes and all the offense/defense switching Buzz does with he and Chris (who is statistically slightly better on D) what % of "O" minutes does Gardner actually play. Aren't his total minutes somewhat dececeptive?

Thanks.

[mattyv1908]

Matty, I agree with you on Mayo. His game demands more PT. But he has been academically ineligible for a semester and suspended for his behavior twice. He got the most minutes Buzz has ever given a freshmen and then screwed himself and his teammates with his performance in the classroom and off the court. I think for the long range good of the program (and for Todd) it's only right that he earned his way back to big minutes.

Regarding Davante's minutes, assuming 30 "offensive" minutes and all the offense/defense switching Buzz does with he and Chris (who is statistically slightly better on D) what % of "O" minutes does Gardner actually play. Aren't his total minutes somewhat dececeptive?

Thanks.

Great question with regards to Gardner.  I guess the answer requires a couple of follow up questions and this is only speculation so please don't take this as factual.

How many offensive possessions does Gardner miss with the offensive defensive substitutions with Otule?  I'd venture to say he probably misses 8-12 offensive possessions due to game flow that doesn't result in a stoppage.  Let's say it's 1/7th of of our entire offensive possessions (68.6 average).  That's roughly 1.4-1.7 points/game.  That may seem small, but it's a significant number especially how close our ppg compared to our opponent's ppg have been.

My suggestion all along would not be so much to switch the substitution strategy late in games.  I would recommend starting Gardner both halves where he can pick up those 'lost' offensive possessions that occur from the substitution strategy.  An extra 2.5 minutes each half before the end of game substitution strategy would be around a net 2.5 ppg increase for our team, which this season would be about another 5 wins.

[Lennys Tap]

Great question with regards to Gardner.  I guess the answer requires a couple of follow up questions and this is only speculation so please don't take this as factual.

How many offensive possessions does Gardner miss with the offensive defensive substitutions with Otule?  I'd venture to say he probably misses 8-12 offensive possessions due to game flow that doesn't result in a stoppage.  Let's say it's 1/7th of of our entire offensive possessions (68.6 average).  That's roughly 1.4-1.7 points/game.  That may seem small, but it's a significant number especially how close our ppg compared to our opponent's ppg have been.

My suggestion all along would not be so much to switch the substitution strategy late in games.  I would recommend starting Gardner both halves where he can pick up those 'lost' offensive possessions that occur from the substitution strategy.  An extra 2.5 minutes each half before the end of game substitution strategy would be around a net 2.5 ppg increase for our team, which this season would be about another 5 wins.

Great question with regards to Gardner.  I guess the answer requires a couple of follow up questions and this is only speculation so please don't take this as factual.

How many offensive possessions does Gardner miss with the offensive defensive substitutions with Otule?  I'd venture to say he probably misses 8-12 offensive possessions due to game flow that doesn't result in a stoppage.  Let's say it's 1/7th of of our entire offensive possessions (68.6 average).  That's roughly 1.4-1.7 points/game.  That may seem small, but it's a significant number especially how close our ppg compared to our opponent's ppg have been.

My suggestion all along would not be so much to switch the substitution strategy late in games.  I would recommend starting Gardner both halves where he can pick up those 'lost' offensive possessions that occur from the substitution strategy.  An extra 2.5 minutes each half before the end of game substitution strategy would be around a net 2.5 ppg increase for our team, which this season would be about another 5 wins.

I would be interested with what the real stats show. Gardner plays two thirds of the total minutes. All things being equal that would be (in a 66 possession game) 44 for Davante and 22 for Chris. If Buzz switches them 8 times in a game (is that about right?) it's 52 offensive possessions for Gardner and 14 for Otule. All of a sudden, Davante is a 31 minute a game player instead of a 26 minute guy. Again, I don't know if my guesses are accurate but it seems to me we should identify what % of offensive possessions Gardner actually plays and then argue whether it's enough rather than use flawed numbers.

[mattyv1908]

Six minutes of playing time is equal to 10.29 possessions ((68.6/40)x6).

Leave the late game substitutions alone as I think it is the right decision from Buzz.

Garner getting the extra six minutes to start the game and the second half equates to the team scoring 13.11 points with him in those 10.29 possessions instead of 11.25 points the team would score with Otule.

That's almost two extra points a game, close to my estimate and would still add an additional 4-5 wins for this year's team.

Any more brain buster's 

[MU82]

Six minutes of playing time is equal to 10.29 possessions ((68.6/40)x6).

Leave the late game substitutions alone as I think it is the right decision from Buzz.

Garner getting the extra six minutes to start the game and the second half equates to the team scoring 13.11 points with him in those 10.29 possessions instead of 11.25 points the team would score with Otule.

That's almost two extra points a game, close to my estimate and would still add an additional 4-5 wins for this year's team.

Any more brain buster's 

Do the stats allow for how many more points Marquette gives up when it uses a poor defensive post player vs. one who can block or alter shots? Not trying to be a wise-ass -- I genuinely don't know.

In general, I've been pleased with the Gardner-Otule split of minutes. As a combination, they are averaging 21 points, 10 rebs and 1.5 blocks per game, and that's pretty darn productive from the center position.

Otule and Gardner provide very different looks to an opponent and each has a fairly defined role, with definite strengths and weaknesses. Logically, using both would figure to keep each fresher and less likely to be in foul trouble.

Could Davante play a few more minutes? Sure. Should he? Perhaps. But of all the things to complain about with Buzz's allocation of minutes, this seems more of a minor quibble compared to, say, Buzz choosing to make Derrick and Jake our two highest-minute guys.

[Lennys Tap]

Six minutes of playing time is equal to 10.29 possessions ((68.6/40)x6).

Leave the late game substitutions alone as I think it is the right decision from Buzz.

Garner getting the extra six minutes to start the game and the second half equates to the team scoring 13.11 points with him in those 10.29 possessions instead of 11.25 points the team would score with Otule.

That's almost two extra points a game, close to my estimate and would still add an additional 4-5 wins for this year's team.

Any more brain buster's 

Thanks, Matt

[MUHoopsFan2]

LOL....now what does Buzz have to "learn?"

You all tickle me...Buzz knows what he is doing. What's wrong now...? Is there no pleasing you? Man have we gotten spoiled rotten around here?

I won't even read a single post of this thread because I know it is a rant fest and I will be in here all day on some nonsense. I am just commenting on the title and getting out of dodge..

Just stop. Good day, fan assistant coaches.  

[brandx]

Do the stats allow for how many more points Marquette gives up when it uses a poor defensive post player vs. one who can block or alter shots? Not trying to be a wise-ass -- I genuinely don't know.

In general, I've been pleased with the Gardner-Otule split of minutes. As a combination, they are averaging 21 points, 10 rebs and 1.5 blocks per game, and that's pretty darn productive from the center position.

 

I think the minutes for those two have been about where they should be - although your averages are slightly misleading because of the times they were on the floor together. Without doing any math, I would guess it would be closer to 18 & 8 from the actual center position - but your point is well taken.

[Class71]

There is no rhyme or reason to some of those lunatic lineups. You don't go from starting JJJ to several DNP's, or playing Juan Anderson for 3 minutes a half--same with Reggie Smith and Erik Williams. Hell Buzz did stuff like this with Crowder his Jr. year, and people ridiculously defended Buzz by saying this was done to prevent Crowder from getting early fouls which is hogwash, as he does not have the foul prone Ja. Wilson coming off the bench. This is just Buzz being irrational.

Agreed. IMHO Buzz could have benefited earlier on with more minutes for Todd, Deonte an to a lesser degree John and JJJ. Buzz tried alot of options but too fragmented and sporatic. What he used was a defensive oriented line-up that could not set up a play or hit a shot. Safe but no chance to be a winner IMHO.

[MU82]

Buzz tried alot of options but too fragmented and sporatic. What he used was a defensive oriented line-up that could not set up a play or hit a shot. Safe but no chance to be a winner IMHO.

Indeed, in all sports at all levels, coaches who play not to lose instead of to win often lose a lot. It's a cruel irony.

[NersEllenson]

Indeed, in all sports at all levels, coaches who play not to lose instead of to win often lose a lot. It's a cruel irony.

Well said...and much like you se what happens when teams go into a stall offense/bleed clock approach when up 10 points with 3-4 minutes left...

[Bo Ryan's Massage Therapist]

Wouldn't surprise me if Buzz leaves soon.  I'd hate to see him leave, but he's a hot commodity given recent success and after talking to some close to the program, he is for once under pressure... Doesn't take a genius to see what he has done isn't working and the big names will see this as a chance to poach him.  Hope I am wrong!

Gulp.  some in the administration saw this coming.  I guess they were right.