Trevor Powell---Where is he now?

[ChicosBailBonds]

This is a spectacular thread.  I got a bad vibe from Crean at the CUSA tourney in Memphis and it never changed.  I don't live in Milwaukee, but do have one connection to the program on the medical staff.  Let's just say the docs that work with the program detested the tan one. 

I do agree with Chicos that his tenure was fairly successful on a won/loss perspective and we certainly managed to enter the Big East on a very competitive basis.

I have no doubts whatsoever from the docs that worked with him.  He was very demanding and some would say other things (I never encountered that personally but I wasn't there long enough to experience it under his tenure), that is not a surprise to me at all.  Not an easy person to work for or with.  Then again, neither was Bobby, neither was Roy, neither were most coaches, Mike Scioscia being one of the glowing exceptions to the rule.

[ChicosBailBonds]

This discussion is about whether the guy would be welcomed back with open arms after a certain amount of time. Hayward simply said no.

Incidentally Chicos, when you make statements about Doug Melvin and Doc Rivers singing his praises -- on top of stories of the guy spreading his legs and growing a tail on top of a gymful of pre-pubescent campers and their parents -- it only strengthens our argument over what a complete ass the guy is and why a TON (is that OK?) of people will boo him with their last breadth.

I'd like to know -- for all you guys (bma, 2002, Chicos) denying this -- what you think the reaction would be to him coming to a game would be?

If so many people love him and stopped donating to the B&G Fund...do you think he'd get cheered at a game? Is it because of how he left? Nobody cares about that. Was it his recruiting? Doubtful? How about the fact that his assistants and incoming freshman more often than not ran out the door like their hair was on fire. Getting closer...

...it's that people generally DON'T LIKE HIM! And it's why he won't be welcome back even after 10 years.

I have no idea what people's reactions would be, probably mixed.  There would be those that would scream at the top of their lungs, the same kind that screamed that Deane sucked or yelled at Cords during the reseating process I was part of.  You're always going to have some people like that.  Then there would be people that would just sit on their hands not willing to show any emotion at all in some kind of protest.  There would be those that give him the Midwest polite clap hello, and then those that would wildly cheer for him.  Probably a pretty good mix.   But I don't think you would have more than 10% that would scream bloody murder about him.    That would be pretty classless and most MU and Milwaukee fans don't fall into that category.  If this was Philadelphia, then maybe so.

Would UWM fans jeer Bruce Pearl if he came back?  Successful coach who was controversial, a complete prick and left for another school.  I'd say no.

[tower912]

Second most successful coach in MU history, graduated all of his players, never a hint of NCAA violations vs. some viewed him as a phony, as abrasive, as self promoting.    Hmmmm.    Give me the first every single time.  

[4everwarriors]

He will absolutely 100% be cheered when he comes back for some sort of reunion.  People forget the bad things as time goes on.  In a few years, since very few even know about his attitude, very few will even remember it.  Instead they'll remember returning the program to prominence after Deane, they'll remember the C-USA title, the Final Four, the 5 NCAA tournaments in 9 years, Wade, Diener, James, etc.  They'll remember the 2nd most successful coach in the history of this university, and they'll cheer for him. 

No need to fret this one. He won't be back. Doesn't have the nads for it. Let's not forget he pulled an Irsay by cleaning out his MU office in the dead of night. He'll never be back and I'm thrilled.

[ChicosBailBonds]

No need to fret this one. He won't be back. Doesn't have the nads for it. Let's not forget he pulled an Irsay by cleaning out his MU office in the dead of night. He'll never be back and I'm thrilled.

He'll be back at some point, unless he's dead.  He'll be back.  When they honor the Final Four team in 2013 or 2018 or 2023 at some point he'll be back.  You can guarantee that he'll be back for one of those and people who have a huge axe to grind will have moved on.  If he tanks at IU or is successful at IU, it won't matter, he'll be back at some point.

[4everwarriors]

Would UWM fans jeer Bruce Pearl if he came back?  Successful coach who was controversial, a complete prick and left for another school.  I'd say no.

Bruce took UWM to levels they never dreamed possible. It wasn't that long ago that they were a D-III school stuck in neutral and he had them playing in the Sweet 16 with an exciting brand of basketball. Haidet and the entire athletic department knew they could never keep him. I can tell you, however, the decision to leave Milwaukee was not that easy for him. He felt an obligation to the school for giving him a chance. I, for one, encouraged him to go. Flat out told him, "there's no real decision to be made." And Bruce knew that anyway, but he does have a heart and there were second thoughts. Funny how he still returns each summer to spend time with some of his Milwaukee buds. Gotta disagree, JD, Bruce would be wildly welcomed for a UWM reunion.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Bruce took UWM to levels they never dreamed possible. It wasn't that long ago that they were a D-III school stuck in neutral and he had them playing in the Sweet 16 with an exciting brand of basketball. Haidet and the entire athletic department knew they could never keep him. I can tell you, however, the decision to leave Milwaukee was not that easy for him. He felt an obligation to the school for giving him a chance. I, for one, encouraged him to go. Flat out told him, "there's no real decision to be made." And Bruce knew that anyway, but he does have a heart and there were second thoughts. Funny how he still returns each summer to spend time with some of his Milwaukee buds. Gotta disagree, JD, Bruce would be wildly welcomed for a UWM reunion.

That's entirely my point, he would be wildly welcomed back at UWM (despite leaving his school, despite being a prick to many, despite being a pompous self absorbed self promoter, he would still be welcomed back).

Just as Crean would by most people.    And just as Crean admitted a few days later having second thoughts as well after he left MU.  And Crean didn't even tamper with players from other schools like Bruce did.   

[The Lens]

Can we get back to the fact that SJS itimated that KO left the MU program in a bad way...

Lets see with Kevin's players we were NIT runner-up, NCAA 2nd Round (4 seed) and NCAA (plus CUSAT champs) the 3 years after he left.  Seems to me he had MU pretty well positioned.  B/C I know Mike can't be credited with any of those accomplishments.

[Marquette84]

But let us not forget Marquette 84 actually stated that Dukiet was abetter coach than Oneill.  that plus the recruiting theory calls for a straight jacket.

Let's also not forget that you were tried to pin O'Neill's team being swept by Butler in 91 on Dukeit.  At least I get my facts straight.

Then, lets focus on what I actually said:  I pointed out was that it was it took far better coaching for Dukiet to coax a 10-18 season in 88 than O'Neill to go 11-18 in 91.   

If you want to respond, respond specifically to that.  Tell me why you think 91 represented a better coaching performance.

I've already given you my view--in 88 with loss of Flory and Posey from the roster before the season started, Reeder and Nethen mid-year, and the fact that 9 of 12 rostered players were either freshmen or sophomores, I think coaching 10 wins out of that team was nothing short of a miracle.   

When you couple that with Dukiet's success at St. Peters pre-MU and Gannon post-MU, and I think its fair to say that the complaints about Dukiet's coaching are grossly exaggerated.

Can we get back to the fact that SJS itimated that KO left the MU program in a bad way...

Lets see with Kevin's players we were NIT runner-up, NCAA 2nd Round (4 seed) and NCAA (plus CUSAT champs) the 3 years after he left.  Seems to me he had MU pretty well positioned.  B/C I know Mike can't be credited with any of those accomplishments.

Please note that my comment wasn't that O'Neill left the roster depleted, but rather than he recommended a weak recruiter as his replacement knowing that he built no established recruiting pipeline. As O'Neil's recruits left, MU declined--and by 1999 we wern't much better off then when O'Neill arrived.

I don't consider a 6-10 CUSA record and last place in the division while counting on Krunti Hester to lead the rebuilding effort to be "pretty well positioned".  If you do, then we'll just have to disagree.






 

[lurch91]

Then, lets focus on what I actually said:  I pointed out was that it was it took far better coaching for Dukiet to coax a 10-18 season in 88 than O'Neill to go 11-18 in 91.  

In 87-88 we were playing low D1 teams like Stetson, Iona and Fordham to fill the schedule.  While the 90-91 schedule wasn't filled with all ACC or Big East teams, we were at least playing mid-major talent every game.

Btw, in 87-88 we lost to that "never-was" SEC school that KO left for - by 16.

It's all subjective, but KO did do a better job.  If I remember correctly KO was giving Mac, Key and Logterman tons of minutes - and they were freshmen.  Logterman played the entire season out of position at PG.

While the 87-88 team certainly didn't have more talent, it at least had a PG in Michael "Pop" Sims.

[StillAWarrior]

All i know is i have dozens and dozens of MU grads that I speak to from accross the country and to a person they have dtested the guy for long before 4/2008.  You may even recall the poll in the JS onlineform a few dyas after he left  "glad or sad"  it was about at 50/50.  pretty telling...that half the people were glad he was gone for a guy that supposedly did so much ...

A couple of things.  First of all, most of the people I talk to are generally favorable about him. Like a lot of other people, I think he was arrogant and was always exploring to find a better option, but I think he did a lot for the school and the program and I appreciate it.

Second, your comment about the poll simply countersyour overall point.  If the poll was 50/50 right after he left -- when you would expect emotions to be running most high -- that really suggests to me that he was a very, very popular coach.  Honestly, as I was reading your post I was expecting you to say 80/20 or 90/10.  That's what I'd expect in the days after a coach left.  Face it -- even as you're trying to make the point that everybody hates him, the numbers you cite suggest that, at worst, it's a 50/50 split.

[bma725]

In 87-88 we were playing low D1 teams like Stetson, Iona and Fordham to fill the schedule.  While the 90-91 schedule wasn't filled with all ACC or Big East teams, we were at least playing mid-major talent every game.

You mean mid-major talent like Mississippi Valley State and Prairie View A&M?  Oh wait no, those were schedule fillers just like Iona and Fordham. 

Look at the two schedules again, the 1987-88 schedule was much tougher than you think.

1987-88:
High Majors(12): Tennessee, Wisconsin, Northwestern, Minnesota, Kansas State, Notre Dame(2), Miami, DePaul(2), Wake Forest, Virginia Tech
Mid Majors(11): Air Force, Dayton(2), Loyola-Chicago, Loyola Marymount, Creighton, Valpo, Evansville, Cleveland State, Western Michigan, Xavier
Low Majors(5): Fordham, Iona, Stetson, Canisius, Hartford

1990-91
High Majors(11): Duke, Kansas, Wisconsin, Michigan, Oklahoma State, Virginia, DePaul(2), Notre Dame(2), NC State,
Mid Majors(15): Dayton(2), Xavier(2), Loyola-Chicago(2), Evansville(2), SLU(3), Detroit(2), Butler(2),
Low Majors(3): Arkansas Little Rock, Mississippi Valley State, Prarie View

[The Lens]

Please note that my comment wasn't that O'Neill left the roster depleted, but rather than he recommended a weak recruiter as his replacement knowing that he built no established recruiting pipeline. As O'Neil's recruits left, MU declined--and by 1999 we wern't much better off then when O'Neill arrived.

I don't consider a 6-10 CUSA record and last place in the division while counting on Krunti Hester to lead the rebuilding effort to be "pretty well positioned".  If you do, then we'll just have to disagree.






 

[/quote]

I have it on good authority that he told Cords to hire Dick Bennett.  And if a coach leaves in 94 and the program flounders in 99 (or even 98) can you really blame that coach?

[MR.HAYWARD]

stilla warrior.....you are missing the point ...the Cream lovers ala 2002 and chicos keep say he would get a rousing ovation or that maybe 10% would be unapproving.  My point simply was if 50% said "glad"  how is it then that only 10% would be un approving.

I actually think as time goes on Crean becomes less and less liked by Mu people.  As Buzz is successful and genuine it makes Crean look less and less "good"  and given him leaving and how he left and being a prick in general people will in general just think he is the loser that he is. Sort of like a Monson at Gonzaga...a you thought you were so great and left us for a bigger program...BTW thanks you prick.  Maybe not a totally apt comparison I have never met him and do not know what the general feeling of him before he left.  My guess is he was not as widely hated at Gonzo. as Crean was at MU, seems most people Cream came in contact simply hated the guy, doctors, admins, players, coaches , fans etc.

[lurch91]

1987-88:
High Majors(12): Tennessee, Wisconsin, Northwestern, Minnesota, Kansas State, Notre Dame(2), Miami, DePaul(2), Wake Forest, Virginia Tech
Mid Majors(11): Air Force, Dayton(2), Loyola-Chicago, Loyola Marymount, Creighton, Valpo, Evansville, Cleveland State, Western Michigan, Xavier
Low Majors(5): Fordham, Iona, Stetson, Canisius, Hartford

1990-91
High Majors(11): Duke, Kansas, Wisconsin, Michigan, Oklahoma State, Virginia, DePaul(2), Notre Dame(2), NC State,
Mid Majors(15): Dayton(2), Xavier(2), Loyola-Chicago(2), Evansville(2), SLU(3), Detroit(2), Butler(2),
Low Majors(3): Arkansas Little Rock, Mississippi Valley State, Prarie View

bma, I think you proved my point.  MU played 5 cupcakes in 87-88, and only 3 in 90-91.  Yet in 87-88 Dukiet only won one more game then KO did in 90-91.  We also played 23 mid majors or higher in 87-88, and 26 in 90-91.  

[Marquette84]

In 87-88 we were playing low D1 teams like Stetson, Iona and Fordham to fill the schedule.  While the 90-91 schedule wasn't filled with all ACC or Big East teams, we were at least playing mid-major talent every game.

We were in the MCC in 91 for gods sake! Over half the schedule was filled with such low D1 teams--not Fordham or Iona, but  Loyola, Butler, Evansville, Detroit etc.  

Both years we had a mix of good and bad teams.  In 91 we had big names like Duke, Kansas, Michigan, Oklahoma State, Notre Dame-- but we also had the MCC schedule, Mississippi Valley State, Prairie View A&M, Arkansas Little Rock.

In 88 we had big names like Minnesota, Xavier (an NCAA team that year), Kansas State, Tennessee, Wake Forest--and the MCC-like teams you cited above.
 
I don't buy the schedule argument--there were a mix of tough and easy game each season, and it looks like they were in about the same ratio.

Btw, in 87-88 we lost to that "never-was" SEC school that KO left for - by 16.

Funny, you just got through telling me that we only played low D1 teams like Iona and Fordham.

Perhaps your point is that Tennesse is also a low major, similar to Fordham and Iona.  

Doesn't that makes the fact that O'Neill left for such a program even more galling.  

It's all subjective, but KO did do a better job.  If I remember correctly KO was giving Mac, Key and Logterman tons of minutes - and they were freshmen.  Logterman played the entire season out of position at PG.

While the 87-88 team certainly didn't have more talent, it at least had a PG in Michael "Pop" Sims.

Well this at least has the makings of an argument.  A point guard is important.  

However, you are not correct when you claim Logtermann played point the entire season.   Keith Stewart was kicked off the team prior to the game at Dayton--which was 10 games into the season.  By that point, we had played the most of the difficult teams on the schedule.

Logtermann was the PG for the MCC schedule and the later part of the non-conference schedule.

[bma725]

bma, I think you proved my point.  MU played 5 cupcakes in 87-88, and only 3 in 90-91.  Yet in 87-88 Dukiet only won one more game then KO did in 90-91.  We also played 23 mid majors or higher in 87-88, and 26 in 90-91.  

Not exactly.  The schedule was slightly tougher in 1990-91, but the talent was exponentially better.  Winning 10 games against that schedule in 1987-88 with the talent that was on that team is quite honestly overachieving.  Winning 11 games in 1990-91 with the talent that was on the team is under performing quite a bit.

[Marquette84]

bma, I think you proved my point.  MU played 5 cupcakes in 87-88, and only 3 in 90-91.  Yet in 87-88 Dukiet only won one more game then KO did in 90-91.  We also played 23 mid majors or higher in 87-88, and 26 in 90-91.  

I think BMA is probably a bit too charitible when he classifies the entire MCC schedule as "mid-majors" in his 1991 analsyis.  If that were true, we would have had no reason to leave.

I hope you would grant that at very least, the 7th and 8th place teams in the MCC in 1991 were on a par with the likes of Fordham, Iona, or Stetson. 

[MR.HAYWARD]

Not exactly.  The schedule was slightly tougher in 1990-91, but the talent was exponentially better.  Winning 10 games against that schedule in 1987-88 with the talent that was on that team is quite honestly overachieving.  Winning 11 games in 1990-91 with the talent that was on the team is under performing quite a bit.

We started 4 Freshmen in 90-91, please.  And more importantly had no PG...remeber 2005 when Mu had no PG now surround the no PG scenario with 4 freshman starting ...yet you argue we under acheived due to our talnet.  BMA i usually agree with you but that is a head scrathcer.

[NYWarrior]

We started 4 Freshmen in 90-91, please.  And more importantly had no PG...remeber 2005 when Mu had no PG now surround the no PG scenario with 4 freshman starting

co-sign for the most part....Stewart's issues killed that team. Rob and Mark couldn't play the point and there was nobody else on the roster with a decent handle.   The group had tons of talent relative to the previous year but absent a PG it didnt matter as much.  Also, KO struggled with the senior vs freshman issue a bit -- the newcomers had a lot more talent than the outgoing seniors but the minutes didnt necessarily reflect that.  

Keep in mind -- MU did not start four freshman in 90-91.  Trevor and Mark were 4-year starters on that team, and Curry was also a starter (redshirt sophomore).  Damon was a starter, Rob was forced into it while Jim played more as the season moved along and his concussion issues were resolved.

[StillWarriors]

The 90-91 team was woefully undermanned at that point. Logtermann, a shooting guard in high school, had to step in at the point at Kansas and at Duke in the first few games of the season. It was downright embarrassing, especially when Logtermann was flopping around in his socks having blown out a shoe.  O'Neil told me that no one had any idea how much Tony Smith carried the team the year before. He said when the other team pressured MU, it was "Tony bring the ball up." We needed a bucket, "Tony, get a bucket." The other team had a big scorer, "Tony shut him down." The talent level was exposed without Smith there.

[StillAWarrior]

My guess is he was not as widely hated at Gonzo. as Crean was at MU, seems most people Cream came in contact simply hated the guy, doctors, admins, players, coaches , fans etc.

Yet right after he left, when you would expect most people to be extremely angry with him because he left in the middle of the night, only 50% of the people were glad he was gone.  I don't disagree with your contention that he was pompous and a lot of people didn't like him.  I just think you're overestimating the number.  I think he wil be generally fondly remembered, and I think the overall reception if he comes back to a game in 10 years will be favorable.

And you need to read the thread more carefully ... unless, of course, you're intentionally throwing straw men out there.  Neither Chico nor 2002 said Crean would receive a "rousing ovation."  That term was used by PRN to describe the reception that Deane would receive.  PRN said that Crean would be "booed out of the building" if he returned, and 2002 merely disagreed.  BMA said he thought Crean would be cheered, and I agree.  The "Crean lovers" have argued only that they think Crean, on average, would be favorably received (even while admitting that he was an egotistical jerk who is hated by a lot of people).  Not a particularly extreme position to take.  You and PRN are the ones taking the extreme positions.  I wonder if you and/or PRN really believe that Deane ("rousing ovation") would be more warmly received than Crean ("booed out of the building") by the average fan if they returned.  I think that's crazy.  Honestly, I think a lot of casual fans (I'm married to one) either forget that there was someone between KO and Crean or they would remember Deane only as "that coach between O'Neill and Crean."

Edited to add:  I want to be clear that I don't think that is a fair characterization of Deane.  I just think that he was not nearly as "colorful" as KO and/or Crean, and many casual fans would't remember him too vividly.  As I've said in the past when discussing the nickname debate, I think those of us who post here  overestimate how invested most "casual fans" are.

[bma725]

We started 4 Freshmen in 90-91, please.  And more importantly had no PG...remeber 2005 when Mu had no PG now surround the no PG scenario with 4 freshman starting ...yet you argue we under acheived due to our talnet.  BMA i usually agree with you but that is a head scrathcer.

We didn't start 4 freshman in 90-91.  Most games it was 2, for a couple games it was 1.  Anglavar and Powell were seniors.  Curry was a 3rd year sophomore.  Heck, when he started Keith Stewart was a 3rd year sophomore as well.

Second, if you don't think that team had a ton of talent you are kidding yourself.  When you actually look at the roster, it was extremely talented.  Key as a freshman was better than all but two players on the 1987-88 team....heck Key as a hs junior was better than all but two players on the 1987-88 team.  Anglavar and Powell were better as seniors than they were as freshman in 1987-88, Curry in his first year with MU was an immediate impact player, Logterman averaged double figures as a freshman despite playing out of position, and for the first time in quite awhile MU was deep enough that they could keep a Top 100 freshman in McIlvaine on the bench.

Talent is talent, doesn't matter whether a player is a freshman or a senior, if they've got it you'll know, and those guys all had it right away.

[PJDunn]

stilla warrior.....you are missing the point ...the Cream lovers ala 2002 and chicos keep say he would get a rousing ovation or that maybe 10% would be unapproving.  My point simply was if 50% said "glad"  how is it then that only 10% would be un approving.

I actually think as time goes on Crean becomes less and less liked by Mu people.  As Buzz is successful and genuine it makes Crean look less and less "good"  and given him leaving and how he left and being a prick in general people will in general just think he is the loser that he is. Sort of like a Monson at Gonzaga...a you thought you were so great and left us for a bigger program...BTW thanks you prick.  Maybe not a totally apt comparison I have never met him and do not know what the general feeling of him before he left.  My guess is he was not as widely hated at Gonzo. as Crean was at MU, seems most people Cream came in contact simply hated the guy, doctors, admins, players, coaches , fans etc.

I live in a sea of Zags and can tell you that Monson is still beloved by their fans.  When he left the program he turned the keys over to his long time assistant coach (who worked out pretty well) and still kept in touch with the program.  He was at more than a couple of GU games last year sitting next to Judd Heathcote cheering on the pretty impressive program that he helped build.

[Coach Norman Dale]

As I read all this puffing and bickering about Crean and the positive or negative reception he may or may not get from the fans at some point in the future I cannot help but wonder, . . .   

Trevor Powell -- Where is he now?  Did he come back to Milwaukee?

Any of you -- especially those who *clearly* talk to [and from what I have gleaned on behalf of] hundreds and hundreds of Marquette alums and fans on a regular basis -- know anything about Trevor's whereabouts?