2015-16 NFC North/NFL thread

[brandx]

I thought the Bears played fine today, have to measure it against expectations. I don't know anyone who thought the Bears had any shot of actually winning going in to today.

They looked competent overall, their secondary is horrendous, and they didn't make mistakes. I think it was Steve Young (could be wrong) who said "every INT has its own story". To put that pick on Cutler is foolish, any QB in the league would have made that same throw. Bennett was wide open, give all the credit in the world to Matthews. That play by Matthews is the type of play you put on your DPOY resume film. Watch it from different angles, what Matthews did there was awesome, he came from the other side of the tackle box, recognized what was happening, was athletic enough to make the play. Maybe like 3-4 other LB's in this league make that play at best.

The Pack have probably the most talented roster in the league, the Bears are near the bottom. On to week 2.

These are the throws Jay always makes when the game is on the line.

Cutler's QB rating for the game was 67.5 with a 50% completion rate. He was bad before the interception. He "led" them to one TD only after a penalty on their field goal attempt and a TD in garbage time.

Same ole Jay.

[cheebs09]

These are the throws Jay always makes when the game is on the line.

Cutler's QB rating for the game was 67.5 with a 50% completion rate. He was bad before the interception. He "led" them to one TD only after a penalty on their field goal attempt and a TD in garbage time.

Same ole Jay.

@zachkruse2: Cutler never looked inside, threw late down the middle. Broke two of Rodgers' rules for not throwing interceptions.

[NavinRJohnson]

These are the throws Jay always makes when the game is on the line.

Cutler's QB rating for the game was 67.5 with a 50% completion rate. He was bad before the interception. He "led" them to one TD only after a penalty on their field goal attempt and a TD in garbage time.

Same ole Jay.

No doubt. It amazes me that people still try to rationalize the guy's turnovers, when he has such a rich tradition of committing them (this guy has more I tw that aren't his fault than any QB in the history of the league).  Matthews definitely made a nice play, but it really wasn't that difficult. He knew exactly where that ball was going. Jay either didn't see him, or thought he couldn't make a play on the ball. It was a bad decision.  If you aren't going to put that pick on Cutler, who is it on?

[JWags85]

Matthews definitely made a nice play, but it really wasn't that difficult. He knew exactly where that ball was going. Jay either didn't see him, or thought he couldn't make a play on the ball. It was a bad decision.  If you aren't going to put that pick on Cutler, who is it on?

It wasn't that difficult?  That was an insane break and read by Matthews.  Some turnovers are just REALLY REALLY good defensive plays, not blame on WR or QB.  That was a timed, quick throw.  I was very upset about the timing of the TO, but I wasn't like "dammit Jay", more like "I hate how good Matthews is".

Fox's gameplan was fantastic.  Cutler was ok, but very good on 3rd down.  Packers have a way more talented roster.  If the Bears play like that all year, they end up closer to 8-8 than 4-12.

[brandx]

Keeping Cutler will come back to haunt them.

They should've packaged Cutler with their #1 and a #2 or #3 to move up and grab Mariotta. I'm not basing that on yesterday as they played TB and that will easily be Mariotta's best game of the year. But long term, I see him as a more mobile Matt Ryan type. A year-in, year-out top 10 QB once he gets a couple years of experience.

Then use the money from cutting Cutler and go get a good OL and a good DB in free agency.

The decision to keep Jay sets the whole re-build back at least one year. Probably more, since I don't think they will cut him after this year either with no other option available.

[Spotcheck Billy]

Next year the GB will trade Tolzien to da Bears and move Hundley up to #2.   

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

They should've packaged Cutler with their #1 and a #2 or #3 to move up and grab Mariotta.

Was this even a possibility?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

It wasn't that difficult?  That was an insane break and read by Matthews.  Some turnovers are just REALLY REALLY good defensive plays, not blame on WR or QB.  That was a timed, quick throw.  I was very upset about the timing of the TO, but I wasn't like "dammit Jay", more like "I hate how good Matthews is".

Fox's gameplan was fantastic.  Cutler was ok, but very good on 3rd down.  Packers have a way more talented roster.  If the Bears play like that all year, they end up closer to 8-8 than 4-12.

My guess is that it was the result of film study where he deduced that Cutler likes to go in the TEs direction, and as soon as he saw him glance that way sprinted over there.

So yes, that was a great defensive play.  But also it means that Cutler has his security blanket and a good player figured that out.

[mu03eng]

My guess is that it was the result of film study where he deduced that Cutler likes to go in the TEs direction, and as soon as he saw him glance that way sprinted over there.

So yes, that was a great defensive play.  But also it means that Cutler has his security blanket and a good player figured that out.

You are correct.  It was an atheletic play no doubt, but it was entirely based on pre-snap read.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000529139/Bears-Jay-Cutler-pass-intercepted-by-Packers-Clay-Matthews

Here is the link to the NFL reply.  The most interesting angle is from behind Cutler in which you can see Matthews read the TE release at the snap and head that way.  In the defense GB was running, Matthews had responsibility for the central 5-15 yard area for crossing routes and he went the way of the tight end based purely on read.

If Cutler had looked off the TE, he had Royal on a shallow drag where Matthews had abandoned the zone

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Yes.  And that reminds me of the Raji interception in the Championship Game.  He went back into coverage, read the QBs eyes, and the rest was history.  If the QB simply looked over, Devin Hester was wide open.  But that quarterback was Caleb Hanie. Not a guy being paid like a franchise player.

[MerrittsMustache]

Matthews is a guesser (like Seau and Polomalu before him). Sometimes he's right and makes a big play, other times he's wrong and finds himself wildly out of position. On the biggest play of yesterday's game, he guessed right and made a big play. That's just how it goes sometimes.

Overall, I'm pleased with how the Bears played. GB is a significantly more talented team and the Bears were a play or two away from potentially winning the game. Having a legit NFL coaching staff makes a world of difference. Having legit NFL talent would help too 

[Benny B]

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/e/-DPBgqKwvDs" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/e/-DPBgqKwvDs</a>

[wadesworld]

Matthews is a guesser (like Seau and Polomalu before him). Sometimes he's right and makes a big play, other times he's wrong and finds himself wildly out of position. On the biggest play of yesterday's game, he guessed right and made a big play. That's just how it goes sometimes.

Overall, I'm pleased with how the Bears played. GB is a significantly more talented team and the Bears were a play or two away from potentially winning the game. Having a legit NFL coaching staff makes a world of difference. Having legit NFL talent would help too 

I think you're right about Clay when he is/was on the outside and was just pinning his ears back and trying to wreak havoc in the backfield.  I like Clay a lot more on the inside.  He is a lot more disciplined but his motor is always going so he still makes plays where he runs down the RB that has a wide open TD from the back side (although he was on the outside that play).

It wasn't that difficult?  That was an insane break and read by Matthews.  Some turnovers are just REALLY REALLY good defensive plays, not blame on WR or QB.  That was a timed, quick throw.  I was very upset about the timing of the TO, but I wasn't like "dammit Jay", more like "I hate how good Matthews is".

Fox's gameplan was fantastic.  Cutler was ok, but very good on 3rd down.  Packers have a way more talented roster.  If the Bears play like that all year, they end up closer to 8-8 than 4-12.

It was a good play, but it wasn't some insane play that only Clay Matthews makes.

If Jay continues to follow the gameplans that Fox creates to minimize his deficiencies Jay can be an okay quarterback.  But if the Bears fall to 1-3 or something early, what are we going to see from Jay?  I guess we will see.  He played a good game yesterday, especially by his standards, because he followed a very smart gameplan.  But, at the end of the day, Jay turned the ball over inside 4 minutes left down by 8 well into Packers territory.  It's what Jay has always done (that or red zone turnovers), and until it changes the Bears will not be going anywhere significant.

[DegenerateDish]

Keeping Cutler will come back to haunt them.

They should've packaged Cutler with their #1 and a #2 or #3 to move up and grab Mariotta. I'm not basing that on yesterday as they played TB and that will easily be Mariotta's best game of the year. But long term, I see him as a more mobile Matt Ryan type. A year-in, year-out top 10 QB once he gets a couple years of experience.

Then use the money from cutting Cutler and go get a good OL and a good DB in free agency.

The decision to keep Jay sets the whole re-build back at least one year. Probably more, since I don't think they will cut him after this year either with no other option available.

It's well known the Bears actively shopped Cutler this past offseason.

[brandx]

I never heard any talk that they were using him and draft choices to get the #1 or #2 pick, but I could be wrong.

Jay alone would bring a 5th rounder at best.

[JWags85]

It was a good play, but it wasn't some insane play that only Clay Matthews makes.

If Jay continues to follow the gameplans that Fox creates to minimize his deficiencies Jay can be an okay quarterback.  But if the Bears fall to 1-3 or something early, what are we going to see from Jay?  I guess we will see.  He played a good game yesterday, especially by his standards, because he followed a very smart gameplan.  But, at the end of the day, Jay turned the ball over inside 4 minutes left down by 8 well into Packers territory.  It's what Jay has always done (that or red zone turnovers), and until it changes the Bears will not be going anywhere significant.

I don't disagree, but also thats a throw that only a few QBs don't make.  As I said before, I just call out the skill of the play by Matthews cause its not a blame game.  I'm less aggravated by that then if that pick game on a forced throw to a double covered WR cross field as has happened enough. 

As I said, the timing is annoying cause of the result and how neatly it fits into an old  narrative, but otherwise, it didn't resemble a lot of the "classic Jay" INTs of the past.   If that had hit Bennett in the ass or the drive otherwise stalled, it would be a storyline of the Bears playing well, Cutler playing pretty good, but not having enough talent.  The fact that they were even in the game at that point was a testament to Fox and a more patient Cutler.  Lets hope it continues just for watchability sake.

[Benny B]

Time for the first "caught-on-video" fight of the NFL season.  Be forewarned, the video is taken from the upper rows of the top-level, corner endzone seats.  Lots of human decency up there.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/e/vJZUoqDe4VQ" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/e/vJZUoqDe4VQ</a>

Apparently the lady was pissed off that Tony Romo was sitting behind her instead of being down on the field getting ready for the game.  Given the way the game turned out, I think she feels pretty stupid this morning.

[Benny B]

I never heard any talk that they were using him and draft choices to get the #1 or #2 pick, but I could be wrong.

Jay alone would bring a 5th rounder at best.

Look at the talent gap between the top and bottom starting QBs in the NFL... hell, look at the talent divide between starter and backup on any NFL team.  There has always been an extreme dearth of either talent and/or parity at QB in the NFL (there always has been), not to mention, right around the middle of the pack there is always a huge drop-off.  Put it this way, the difference between a guy like Rodgers and Cutler isn't even half of what the difference is between Cutler and someone like Bortles.

Moreover, a lot of otherwise "average" QBs in the NFL have been turned into elite players - if only for a season or two - because of the guys around them (e.g. Kurt Warner immediately comes to mind).  The opposite is also true.  Look at the current poster-child for this phenomenon, Tony Romo... the guy has been a top ten (possibly a top-five) fantasy QB over the past God-knows-how-many seasons, but like Cutler, his reputation is not commensurate with his actual accomplishments because he also trends towards "Tony being Tony" moments at the most inopportune times (or at least the moments that remain in fans' memories).

In short, Cutler may not be among the 8-10 "elite" QBs in the NFL, but a) there are 32 NFL teams and b) the QBs at the bottom are pretty lousy... much lousier than Cutler.

So give Cutler some credit; things could be worse.... a LOT worse.  In another year where a team like Jacksonville had two elite veteran WRs and a lousy starting QB (i.e. the window of opportunity is closing), Cutler could easily be worth a 1st or 2nd round pick.  The fact that he simply wasn't worth it this year has little, if any, indication on what kind of QB he is (or can be).

And this coming from a Packer fan.

[NavinRJohnson]

Time for the first "caught-on-video" fight of the NFL season.  Be forewarned, the video is taken from the upper rows of the top-level, corner endzone seats.  Lots of human decency up there.

What really don't understand is why anyone would pay money, let alone go to a game and sit up there.

[MU B2002]

Time for the first "caught-on-video" fight of the NFL season.  Be forewarned, the video is taken from the upper rows of the top-level, corner endzone seats.  Lots of human decency up there.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/e/vJZUoqDe4VQ" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/e/vJZUoqDe4VQ</a>

Apparently the lady was pissed off that Tony Romo was sitting behind her instead of being down on the field getting ready for the game.  Given the way the game turned out, I think she feels pretty stupid this morning.

Be forewarned the video is 7 minutes long.

[MU82]

It's such a bad spot when you have a QB like Cutler or Dalton or Flacco or Russell Wilson.

Your only options are to overpay or draft a rookie QB and start over.

(BTW, I don't need to know how Flacco & Wilson won SBs. Just like McMahon, their defense won for them.)

I think it is WAAAAY too early to link Wilson to Cutler. The kid has made a lot more plays and a lot fewer mistakes, and, in general, he has done well in the clutch vs stinkin' up the joint. Flacco has rarely impressed me but I have to admit that he has come through many times. Cutler and Dalton? Maybe.

[brandx]

Look at the talent gap between the top and bottom starting QBs in the NFL... hell, look at the talent divide between starter and backup on any NFL team.  There has always been an extreme dearth of either talent and/or parity at QB in the NFL (there always has been), not to mention, right around the middle of the pack there is always a huge drop-off.  Put it this way, the difference between a guy like Rodgers and Cutler isn't even half of what the difference is between Cutler and someone like Bortles.

Moreover, a lot of otherwise "average" QBs in the NFL have been turned into elite players - if only for a season or two - because of the guys around them (e.g. Kurt Warner immediately comes to mind).  The opposite is also true.  Look at the current poster-child for this phenomenon, Tony Romo... the guy has been a top ten (possibly a top-five) fantasy QB over the past God-knows-how-many seasons, but like Cutler, his reputation is not commensurate with his actual accomplishments because he also trends towards "Tony being Tony" moments at the most inopportune times (or at least the moments that remain in fans' memories).

In short, Cutler may not be among the 8-10 "elite" QBs in the NFL, but a) there are 32 NFL teams and b) the QBs at the bottom are pretty lousy... much lousier than Cutler.

So give Cutler some credit; things could be worse.... a LOT worse.  In another year where a team like Jacksonville had two elite veteran WRs and a lousy starting QB (i.e. the window of opportunity is closing), Cutler could easily be worth a 1st or 2nd round pick.  The fact that he simply wasn't worth it this year has little, if any, indication on what kind of QB he is (or can be).

And this coming from a Packer fan.

Cutler's reputation is commensurate with his actual accomplishments, though.

He's 32 with one Pro Bowl (after throwing 18 INTs), and one playoff win (against a sub-.500 team, if I recall).

And Warner wasn't an elite player for just one or two seasons. I believe he had 7 or 8 years where his QB rating was higher than Jay's highest one.

[wadesworld]

QUEENS!!!!!!!!!

Not sure I can make it through this snooze fest.  It'd be nice to wake up tomorrow to see everyone chasing the Packers already after 1 week.  Not exactly what you want to do if you're anyone else in the division.

[brandx]

Vikings!!!     Super Bowl!!!!


                    

[ChicosBailBonds]

Time for the first "caught-on-video" fight of the NFL season.  Be forewarned, the video is taken from the upper rows of the top-level, corner endzone seats.  Lots of human decency up there.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/e/vJZUoqDe4VQ" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/e/vJZUoqDe4VQ</a>

Apparently the lady was pissed off that Tony Romo was sitting behind her instead of being down on the field getting ready for the game.  Given the way the game turned out, I think she feels pretty stupid this morning.

Hoping #19 can fill in on the line with the injury last night.  Looks like she could mix it up a bit.