P U thoughts

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

jsemu84

I do not think MU is the MU of the 70's or Duke, Kansas or Kentucky of today. I think MU is a top 70 program that has been limping slightly forward for three years. I just looked up USC record prior to Andy Enfield coming on board and they were horrible for a decade and in year four they currently are ranked #10 in the country. IMO that is turning around a program.

I definitely know that for every USC turnaround there are 10 x the number of schools that don't have that turnaround. My point is simple, a faster rebuild could have happened and probably should have happened. The continued talk about how hard a rebuild is and how long it should take is getting old. Honestly, Wojo has not gotten done to this point. That could change but he does not get a passing grade from me.

And one of their assistants was just arrested by the FBI. Not sure if that's the example I would go with.

[Goose]

TAMU

I did not know a Southern Cal assistant was arrested by the FBI.

[Hards Alumni]

I also think fan expectations are higher (rightfully so) due to the insane amount of money Marquette spends to be a below-average Big East team.

Also, we are going to be "young" again next season -- Wojo's fifth season. Clearly, he needs 5-7 experienced, fantastic basketball players to be competitive. He's never "coached up" any team to exceed expectations.

What players have gotten better under his tutelage? Duane Wilson? Haney? His best players have arrived on campus good, and stayed good.

This is a great point.

[Disco Hippie]

Is anyone really surprised by Tuesday's result?  If the pundits' predictions are accurate, and they generally tend to be, we're predicted to finish 7th in the BE with .500 conf record at best and maybe a couple of games over 500 overall.  We were very lucky to dance last year, and are less experienced this year so what is the surprise here?
I'm as frustrated as anyone but we are who we are.   All that said, I agree with TAMU Eagle and believe we're on the right track with WOJO at the helm.  At least for now.  If we're not a top 25 team and at least an 8 seed in the dance in 2018 /2019, I'll change my tune but don't feel a leadership change is warranted just yet.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Also, we are going to be "young" again next season -- Wojo's fifth season.

How are we doing to be young next season?

4th year players
Haanif
Morrow
Heldt
Sacar

3rd year players
Markus
Sam
Harry

2nd year players
Elliott
Cain
John
Eke

1st year players
Joey
Bailey (who will be 20 or 21)

Assuming no major defections, we will have more upperclassmen than underclassmen and one of our underclassmen will be the age of our upperclassmen.

Clearly, he needs 5-7 experienced, fantastic basketball players to be competitive. He's never "coached up" any team to exceed expectations.

His first season he met expectations. His second season he fell short of expectations. His third season he exceeded expectations (very few if any pundits had us making the tournament). His fourth season is only two games and so far has won a game everyone expected him to and lost a game everyone expected him to.

What players have gotten better under his tutelage? Duane Wilson? Haney? His best players have arrived on campus good, and stayed good.

Juan, Car3no, Teve, Luke, JJJ, Heldt, and Rowsey all significantly improved under Wojo. Henry improved greatly from the beginning of his season to the end. Katin and Wally were about the same players they were at their first schools. Duane and Sandy seemed to fade under Wojo though I think Duane was due to lingering injuries. Haanif did not improve after his first season. Jury is still out on Markus, Sam, and Sacar.

[jesmu84]

jsemu84

I do not think MU is the MU of the 70's or Duke, Kansas or Kentucky of today. I think MU is a top 70 program that has been limping slightly forward for three years. I just looked up USC record prior to Andy Enfield coming on board and they were horrible for a decade and in year four they currently are ranked #10 in the country. IMO that is turning around a program.

I definitely know that for every USC turnaround there are 10 x the number of schools that don't have that turnaround. My point is simple, a faster rebuild could have happened and probably should have happened. The continued talk about how hard a rebuild is and how long it should take is getting old. Honestly, Wojo has not gotten done to this point. That could change but he does not get a passing grade from me.

Beyond the USC bball scandal, currently under investigation... do you want to be the type of program that straddles the line constantly with "squirmy" actions? I don't. And if you do, that's okay too. Though I think you'd be better off realizing that our admin doesn't want to be that program either.

[Goose]

TAMU

Carlino improved under Wojo? That is a stretch. Only thing that happened is after six weeks everyone on here realized without him they would not have won 7-8 games. Wojo did not make Matt a better player.

[brewcity77]

TAMU

Carlino improved under Wojo? That is a stretch. Only thing that happened is after six weeks everyone on here realized without him they would not have won 7-8 games. Wojo did not make Matt a better player.

In his one season here, Carlino posted his highest career offensive rating, highest eFG%, highest FT%, and highest 3P%. He also posted career highs in points, minutes, and did so against the highest level of competition he played in his 4 years as a college player.

Whether he improved through the season is up for debate. I suppose you could also argue whether he improved as the season progressed. But he unquestionably had his best year in his one year under Wojo and it's not really close.

Now, what I meant to post before Carlino was brought up. It seems the consensus is that next year we should be a top-20 program and contending for a second weekend appearance. Say we are ranked in the top-15 most of the season, finish top-3 in the Big East, and make the Sweet 16. Would that have us on a rebuild path that matches your expectations?

[DCHoopster]

In his one season here, Carlino posted his highest career offensive rating, highest eFG%, highest FT%, and highest 3P%. He also posted career highs in points, minutes, and did so against the highest level of competition he played in his 4 years as a college player.

Whether he improved through the season is up for debate. I suppose you could also argue whether he improved as the season progressed. But he unquestionably had his best year in his one year under Wojo and it's not really close.

Now, what I meant to post before Carlino was brought up. It seems the consensus is that next year we should be a top-20 program and contending for a second weekend appearance. Say we are ranked in the top-15 most of the season, finish top-3 in the Big East, and make the Sweet 16. Would that have us on a rebuild path that matches your expectations?

I do not think yet that MU is a Top 15 team, not sure how anybody can think that?  Really have no point guard yet,  center might be an issue after watching Purdue game, the 3 small forwards are questionable and if you put Sam at the 3 is he quick enough to guard the 3?   Not sure where Joey fits and really how good is he?  It is
one thing to play at SP, it is another game playing active athletes every game in college.  Where do they all play?  As I do see Morrow starting, he is a load physically? 
If he plays center, then Joey and Sam at the forwards, Howard at one guard and a very big question mark at the other.  Bailey is the X factor in my mind.  Now if Elliott
or Cain really improve, then maybe.  Lots of ifs for a top 15 team.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

TAMU

Carlino improved under Wojo? That is a stretch. Only thing that happened is after six weeks everyone on here realized without him they would not have won 7-8 games. Wojo did not make Matt a better player.

See what Brew posted. Carlino posted his best season in both raw numbers and advanced stats despite being surrounded by a mediocre supporting cast. I call that improvement. What would you call it?

[Goose]

TAMU

I call Matt's Sr. year what a former top 30 recruit and fifth/sixth year player looks like. His numbers were better, but he was pretty consistent across the board his whole career. While I am a big Matt fan, and biased, he pretty much did whatever he wanted at MU. The fact he made more baskets in second half of the year changed a lot of opinions of him with Scoopers.

[brewcity77]

I do not think yet that MU is a Top 15 team, not sure how anybody can think that?  Really have no point guard yet,  center might be an issue after watching Purdue game, the 3 small forwards are questionable and if you put Sam at the 3 is he quick enough to guard the 3?   Not sure where Joey fits and really how good is he?  It is
one thing to play at SP, it is another game playing active athletes every game in college.  Where do they all play?  As I do see Morrow starting, he is a load physically?
If he plays center, then Joey and Sam at the forwards, Howard at one guard and a very big question mark at the other.  Bailey is the X factor in my mind.  Now if Elliott
or Cain really improve, then maybe.  Lots of ifs for a top 15 team.

You totally misunderstand my post. I don't care what anyone sees in next year's team. I am saying if the following happens:

• Top-15 ranking all year long
• Top-3 Big East finish
• Sweet 16

If all of those happen, is the rebuild on track? Is that acceptable for year 5?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

TAMU

I call Matt's Sr. year what a former top 30 recruit and fifth/sixth year player looks like. His numbers were better, but he was pretty consistent across the board his whole career. While I am a big Matt fan, and biased, he pretty much did whatever he wanted at MU. The fact he made more baskets in second half of the year changed a lot of opinions of him with Scoopers.

You seem to be implying that his numbers only got better because he was a volume scorer. If that was the case, he wouldn't have improved stats like eFG%, 3P%, .ppp, etc. Carlino increased his raw numbers while simultaneously increasing his efficiency. He did that despite having arguably the worst supporting cast he had ever had in college and playing against the toughest competition he ever saw. That is significant improvement.

I don't know many things, but I do know that Carlino was a significantly better player at Marquette than he was at BYU. I don't think Wojo deserves all the credit for that. But I can't see any way anyone could argue that Carlino improving under Wojo is a "stretch."

[brewcity77]

I don't know many things, but I do know that Carlino was a significantly better player at Marquette than he was at BYU. I don't think Wojo deserves all the credit for that. But I can't see any way anyone could argue that Carlino improving under Wojo is a "stretch."

Matt came in with the chucker reputation, but he had 0.80+ ppg in 25/28 games and 1.00+ ppg in 17/28 games. He was remarkably consistent, something that went against the reputation he came in with. And as you mention, his efficiency numbers were better, which is in diametric opposition to the notion that he "did whatever he wanted" because in that describes a high-volume, low-efficiency player, which Matt was not while he was here. The career high in scoring came with his second lowest career percent of shots taken.

[Goose]

Brew

I meant he did whatever he wanted as a compliment. He did whatever he could to try and save a season. Early on, everyone hear called him a chucker. He played same style of ball from day one, just made more shots in latter half of season. I said back then, Matt has very high ball IQ and did not need a ton of coaching.

[Hards Alumni]

You totally misunderstand my post. I don't care what anyone sees in next year's team. I am saying if the following happens:

• Top-15 ranking all year long
• Top-3 Big East finish
• Sweet 16

If all of those happen, is the rebuild on track? Is that acceptable for year 5?

As long as there isn't a huge drop off in year 6.  I'd really hate to be 'good' every couple of years.

[DCHoopster]

As long as there isn't a huge drop off in year 6.  I'd really hate to be 'good' every couple of years.

They should be fine the following 2 years, again, Top 15,  I do not think so.  Hope I am wrong.    Lose only Heldt, average center and Cheatham, below average 3,
they should be able to recruit better players than those 2, new arena will be done, that alone should sell a recruit.  I do not know if you have seen the front yet, but
the stadium is huge, towers the Bradley Center, it will be the nicest arena in the country.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Next year's roster looks like a top 25 roster to me. I'll admit I am concerned about the PG position, but were only two games into the season and both Howard and Elliott are nursing injuries. I'm not ready to declare that neither can be a solid PG next season.

[GGGG]

Brew

I meant he did whatever he wanted as a compliment. He did whatever he could to try and save a season. Early on, everyone hear called him a chucker. He played same style of ball from day one, just made more shots in latter half of season. I said back then, Matt has very high ball IQ and did not need a ton of coaching.

"Wojo hasn't really developed anyone.  And those players who have improved?  They're just smart and figured it out on their own."

[jesmu84]

"Wojo hasn't really developed anyone.  And those players who have improved?  They're just smart and figured it out on their own."

Seems accurate. No questionable logic here

[GGGG]

I think the biggest issue is that Wojo has not built a well balanced team. The lack of a quality front line outside of Sam has been a big problem. However I think he has figured it out with John, Morrow and maybe even Cain. Probably took him too long however.

[Goose]

Sultan

Matt Carlino was born a basketball player and raised in a 24/7 basketball environment. Wojo did not coach him up one bit. I was specifically talking about one player. This is one argument I can say I know what the hell I am talking about.

[Galway Eagle]

Sultan

Matt Carlino was born a basketball player and raised in a 24/7 basketball environment. Wojo did not coach him up one bit. I was specifically talking about one player. This is one argument I can say I know what the hell I am talking about.

Goose,

Could you tell me the recruiting service that had him top 30? I’m unable to find it and am just curious.

Thank you,

BB

[Goose]

Bagpiping

He was in Time magazine as an eighth grader. Had offers to major, major D1 as an eiight grader. Through Jr year he and Austin Rivers were neck in neck as class rankings. Again, I know what I am talking about it.

[GGGG]

Sultan

Matt Carlino was born a basketball player and raised in a 24/7 basketball environment. Wojo did not coach him up one bit. I was specifically talking about one player. This is one argument I can say I know what the hell I am talking about.

So you think his statistical improvement was simply a coincidence then?  Even though he stated one of the reasons he wanted to come here was to play for Wojo?  And that he was complementary of Wojo throughout the year and after he left?

I doubt that.