P U thoughts

[muguru]

Duke game last night was extremely interesting for what Coach K did. This is the ultimate man defense coach who came out and played zone most of the game.

Reason was simple. 4 freshmen were starting. If guys can't play man D, then try something else.

Bingo!!! If Coach K can do it, why the hell can't Wojo?? I remember a year when Buzz was here, they pulled out a zone in a game because nothing else was working, lo and behold, they got back into the game, and eventually won it. I BELIEVE in the post game show, Buzz had mentioned that they had practiced zone very little, if at all, but he felt he needed to change it up, and see if it worked. Zone is easy to play, you could explain it during a time out. If you are too stubborn to do that, then what about trapping out high, trying to get them to panic, throw the ball away, or at the very least, keep them from getting it inside so easily.

Wojo isn't creative, at all. If it doesn't work, oh well, you at least tried something other than what you typically do, man to man, or double team. When something isn't working, why keep doing it?? It's like he thinks the rules state they can either play man to man defense, or double team and that's it.

[muguru]

We will not know, if this team has a chance to be a good team until Froling gets a couple of games under his belt. He will make a huge difference,  if he can adequately back up Heldt at center and Sam at power forward. Sam should not have to play center or 30+ minutes a game.

As far as point guard for this year. Rowsey did a good job bringing the ball up. Where he got in trouble was taking the ball in to deep.

The problem is, it could be too late already by then. They could bury themselves too deep in the non conference by the time Froling comes for it to even matter...unless maybe the NIT is important.

[1318WWells]

I know someone else has already said it in this thread somewhere, but the hope is that Froling can bring more of a outside game to the center position. A simple pick and pop with either Rowsey or Howard could be real nice. If he’s a threat from the corner that brings the big out of the paint on defense and opens the drives that weren’t there last night for our guards. Make the opposing center have to cover more ground on D and they’ll pick up more fouls being out of position. If Heldt or John is within 8 ft of the basket, the opposing center can stay within 8ft.

5 more fouls on the defensive end will help too.

[bilsu]

The problem is, it could be too late already by then. They could bury themselves too deep in the non conference by the time Froling comes for it to even matter...unless maybe the NIT is important.

I do think we could go 5-5 and still be okay, if we won 70% of the games with Froling. The NCAA will realize that we were a different team with Froling. 5-5 + 14-6 = 19-11. We would need to win a conference tournament game.
Of course Froling is likely to not make that much difference. However, I do believe his size would of helped against Purdue.

[BM1090]

Bingo!!! If Coach K can do it, why the hell can't Wojo?? I remember a year when Buzz was here, they pulled out a zone in a game because nothing else was working, lo and behold, they got back into the game, and eventually won it. I BELIEVE in the post game show, Buzz had mentioned that they had practiced zone very little, if at all, but he felt he needed to change it up, and see if it worked. Zone is easy to play, you could explain it during a time out. If you are too stubborn to do that, then what about trapping out high, trying to get them to panic, throw the ball away, or at the very least, keep them from getting it inside so easily.

Wojo isn't creative, at all. If it doesn't work, oh well, you at least tried something other than what you typically do, man to man, or double team. When something isn't working, why keep doing it?? It's like he thinks the rules state they can either play man to man defense, or double team and that's it.

We played zone almost the entire year in Wojo's first year. He isn't unwilling to adjust. We didn't play zone last night because Purdue is a terrible team to zone against and going to zone would have been a terrible coaching decision.

[GGGG]

We played zone almost the entire year in Wojo's first year. He isn't unwilling to adjust. We didn't play zone last night because Purdue is a terrible team to zone against and going to zone would have been a terrible coaching decision.

Yeah people who want him to “do something” for the sake of simply doing something really don’t know a lot about basketball.

[Jockey]

We went on our skid last season when Wojo fell in love with the zone after the Nova game. We went on our run at the end of the season when Wojo finally killed the zone.

Our guards are too small for a zone and it bogs our offense down. For better or worse, we are a run and gun offense first team. Personally, I think our defense is improved from last season.

I generally agree and even though we had issues with the Purdue bigs, I too thought our defense was better.

But when we struggled so badly on Defense in the 2nd half it was worth a try.

[muguru]

We played zone almost the entire year in Wojo's first year. He isn't unwilling to adjust. We didn't play zone last night because Purdue is a terrible team to zone against and going to zone would have been a terrible coaching decision.

Because you can guarantee me, they would have made every single 3 point shot against the zone?? That's interesting, because I'm pretty sure teams don't make every shot they take from 3, no matter how open they are...kinda like Nova last year. They scored on almost every possession in the 2nd half the way it is, what was gonna happen going zone?? They score on every one?? 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Again,  Wojo switched to zone after we beat Nova with it. The result was losing 4 of 5. We started winning again when he killed the zone and bright back man.  We do not have a good roster for zone. Guards are too small and it bogs down our offense. A prolific three point shooting team like Purdue would have eviscerated us.

[muguru]

Yeah people who want him to “do something” for the sake of simply doing something really don’t know a lot about basketball.

I've forgotten more about basketball, then you will every know. I can GUARANTEE you that my friend. Prove 100% to me that zone would absolutely NOT have worked, and I will stop talking about it, how's that for a deal?? I will hang up and wait for your answer. Now, let's play devil's advocate...let's say Zone would NOT have worked..there's other things you can do...you can trap out high, and maybe force some panic, or make feeding the post tougher, you can use some full court pressure to disrupt the flow of their offense and make them play faster then they'd like with those two bigs. Obviously, if you don't realize that, then you don't know a lot about basketball, right??

Maybe this will help...let's say in the manufacturing industry, you are making bad product doing it the way you have always done it. So, you realize this isn't optimal, and you try something different, and that still doesn't work. So at that point, do you just say "ah f it, we tried two different things, and neither worked, this just must be the way it is", and keep producing bad parts, or would the more optimal solution be to keep trying things until you find one that works better, or..if it doesn't, what exactly did you lose??

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

This whole zone thing by guru, guru of what?! is just stupid!!!  We go man he wants zone and on and on and on.  Made zero sense to zone. 
Bottom line is Purdue had the 3 best players on the court yesterday and they are all vastly bigger stronger and more experienced than Marquette.  Realy hung with them for most of the game and made it a battle.
They shoot the three as well or better than us and rebound extremely well but we should zone them. 
Guru ur really not coming off well u sound ignorant to the game

[muguru]

Again,  Wojo switched to zone after we beat Nova with it. The result was losing 4 of 5. We started winning again when he killed the zone and bright back man.  We do not have a good roster for zone. Guards are too small and it bogs down our offense. A prolific three point shooting team like Purdue would have eviscerated us.

Wait...what?? MU beat the #1 team in the country last year playing a zone?? Say it isn't so..Yet, people seem to forget that and INSIST it wouldn't work against Purdue..Yet, Nova was clanking three's in that game. Huh. go figure.

A prolific 3 point shooting team like Nova would have eviscerated them with it...oh...wait. 

[muguru]

This whole zone thing by guru, guru of what?! is just stupid!!!  We go man he wants zone and on and on and on.  Made zero sense to zone. 
Bottom line is Purdue had the 3 best players on the court yesterday and they are all vastly bigger stronger and more experienced than Marquette.  Realy hung with them for most of the game and made it a battle.
They shoot the three as well or better than us and rebound extremely well but we should zone them. 
Guru ur really not coming off well u sound ignorant to the game

Mr Sand knit, how did MU beat Nova last year?? Do you remember?? How did Nova shoot from 3 in that game?? I'm just curious..

[GGGG]

I've forgotten more about basketball, then you will every know.

LOL...ok dude.

Prove 100% to me that zone would absolutely NOT have worked, and I will stop talking about it, how's that for a deal??

So now you are asking me to prove a negative after it occurred?  Your knowledge of logic is even worse than your knowledge of basketball.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Nova had a bad 5 minute stretch from 3.  Ur insistance that MU change its defensive philosophy in quite honestly a five minute lucky stretch is pretty dumb, par for you but dumb for anyone else

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Yes.  Nova had a historically bad shooting night. I prefer to not use strategies that require opponents to have historically bad shooting nights. And purdue is a better three point shooting team than Nova.

Playing Haas 1 on 1 and locking down everyone else was working. It broke down when foul trouble forced Wojo to start doubling Haas. Letting a center get a bunch of two pointers is fine when you have the shooters that we do. Teams did the same thing to us last season,  let Fischer get his but lockdown the shooters.

I've forgotten more about basketball, then you will every know. I can GUARANTEE you that my friend.

And Wojo has forgotten more about basketball than you will ever know but that doesn't stop you so why should it stop sultan?

[fjm]

Look at Guru starting the "I know more about basketball than you" big dick contest.

[muguru]

LOL...ok dude.


So now you are asking me to prove a negative after it occurred?  Your knowledge of logic is even worse than your knowledge of basketball.

I'm just sayin'...Your attitude is always of the "smartest man in the room". You flat out said a zone wouldn't have worked..I'm just curious how you know that for sure...or is that merely your opinion??

[GGGG]

I'm just sayin'...Your attitude is always of the "smartest man in the room". You flat out said a zone wouldn't have worked..I'm just curious how you know that for sure...or is that merely your opinion??

Well of course it's an opinion.  How the hell can anyone say for sure it would have worked?

I could say "play Ike Eke at point guard" and no one could possibly prove it would (or wouldn't) have worked.

[TedBaxter]

We will not know, if this team has a chance to be a good team until Froling gets a couple of games under his belt. He will make a huge difference,  if he can adequately back up Heldt at center and Sam at power forward. Sam should not have to play center or 30+ minutes a game.

As far as point guard for this year. Rowsey did a good job bringing the ball up. Where he got in trouble was taking the ball in to deep.

I'll be surprised if Froling isn't garnering 20 plus minutes a game once he becomes eligible with Matt and Theo in reserve at the 5.

[muguru]

Well of course it's an opinion.  How the hell can anyone say for sure it would have worked?

I could say "play Ike Eke at point guard" and no one could possibly prove it would (or wouldn't) have worked.

Exactly! Yet you state it as fact to be condescending...that's how you are. You have this "I'm smarter then you" complex around here. if it's your opinion, then state it as such..."I don't think zone would have worked", rather then with certainty "zone would not have worked". I don't know for sure that it would have worked...but you know what?? I know what Wojo was doing(in both instances) was NOT working. In that instance, I either...concede it's not going to work and basically wave the white flag, or..I try everything that I possibly can to get my kids a chance at a win, and there was exactly ZERO harm in doing so. As i said, it didn't have to be a zone necessarily, it could have been pressure, trapping, whatever...something other then the 2 things he did try.

[muguru]

I'll be surprised if Froling isn't garnering 20 plus minutes a game once he becomes eligible with Matt and Theo in reserve at the 5.

Ted is exactly right...Maybe Harry doesn't save the season so to speak, but he will give them a far better chance at winning games then Matt and Theo currently do.

[jesmu84]

Ted is exactly right...Maybe Harry doesn't save the season so to speak, but he will give them a far better chance at winning games then Matt and Theo currently do.

How can you say that with certainty? Or is that just opinion? Seems quite condescending to make a statement like that

[4everwarriors]

Y’all are ‘pectin’ two much outta Frolin’. He ain’t no second cummin’, hey?

[GGGG]

Exactly! Yet you state it as fact to be condescending...that's how you are. You have this "I'm smarter then you" complex around here.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

if it's your opinion, then state it as such..."I don't think zone would have worked", rather then with certainty "zone would not have worked".

LOL.  Try to be less of a hypocrite.