P U thoughts

[TheyWereCones]

During practice,  I think I would run the offense and forbid Rowsey and Howard to shoot.    Force the other players to get in the habit of making plays.

+1

To me, it was glaring how much the offense relied on Rowsey and Howard.  Sam stepped up occasionally, but literally no one else even looked like they wanted to shoot.  Well except Haani a few times but that didn’t work out so well.  He continues his stat stuffing against the cupcakes and disappearing act against the big boys.  I hope that changes at some point this season.

But back to the point, I would run drills in practice that force the others to shoot and make plays.  So what if they turn it over, etc.  That’s what practice is for.  We can’t have 3 scorers only every game.  Someone else mentioned that against teams that aren’t as good as Purdue, maybe others would have been able to step up more...could be some truth to that but really need these young guys to gain confidence, and fast, with all the important upcoming games.

We used to have really good big guys in practice who could score at will but didn’t seem interested in offensive rebounding.  So our coach instructed the offense (without telling the bigs), to not pass them the ball.  If they wanted to score, they had to do it off of an offensive rebound.  Let’s just say that the bigs figured it out quickly, got really mad, and coach yelled at them and said to get a rebound then.  Point is, I hope Wojo is doing things like this in practice.

[GoldenDieners32]

unrelated to the PU game but VCU plays Virginia next hopefully Virginia can smack them

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

TAMU

What gives you optimism that things are going the right direction? I am not saying they are not, but curious on what you think the progress has been the last two years. I have stated several times that I like that Wojo swung for the fences on Grimes. IMO, getting Henry, Marcus and Joey are positives in the big picture. That said, Henry season was a bust, it will at least be two bust years for Marcus and we will see how Joey is as college player.

I am trying to be a glass half full guy, but struggling on how to get there. I'm hoping you can share tangible insights and not the typical Scoop talk.

You can go back and check my posts if you like but I have always held that my expectation when Wojo was hired was a dismal first season, an improved second season, back in the tournament by the third season, a step back in the fourth season, and return to the tournament in the 5th season with an established foundation for a long tournament streak with deep runs in the tournament. So far, we have been right on schedule.

The step back in the fourth season might seem odd, but at the time I was expecting that our highly ranked 2013 class + Luke was going to be graduating at the end of the 3rd season. With such a big class departing it seemed likely that we might take a step back. Especially given how historically hard it has been for us to find a center like Luke.

I posted this a while back but I believe there are three ways to win at a high level in today's college basketball:

1. Recruit one and done talent. The only two schools that can legitimately do this in today's game is Kentucky and Duke.
2. Get good, non-one and done talent and get old. This is your Villanovas, Louisvilles, Purdues, Wisconsins, etc.
3. A combo of the two. Kansas, Michigan State, Arizona, North Carolina, etc.

I know the waiting is excruciating, but we haven't been allowed to get old yet. Wojo's first class are juniors, our best players are sophomores, and our bench is primarily freshmen. With us only losing Rowsey next season and gaining Morrow, Joey, and Bailey, I see a team that is going to be a top 25 team and have a chance to make a deep run in the tournament. The year after that, I see  us only losing two meh seniors in Haanif and Heldt and likely gaining some quality freshmen given the players we are in on for the 2019 class. We will be in position to make a deeper run then. I can't see beyond that at the moment, but it has the makings of a strong foundation for high level success.

We are only two games into this season. Until I see something that disrupts my vision of the 18-19 and 19-20 seasons, I am still on board. I'm tired....because rebuilding is exhausting...but I still like where we are heading.

The one concern I have at the moment for the future is the PG position. Howard and Elliott haven't earned my confidence as primary ballhandlers with these first two games. But it has also only been two games and both are nursing nagging injuries so I'm not ready to declare that we need a new PG next year yet.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

unrelated to the PU game but VCU plays Virginia next hopefully Virginia can smack them

Actually, it would be better for us if VCU smacks Virginia. Makes our game against them look a lot better.

That being said, I expect VCU to get smacked.

[GoldenDieners32]

#TrustWojosProcess

[brewcity77]

Technically, two 3fg would have tied it.  That is how I read it.

I get that, but we never had the ball in that position. When you get it to 6 and it's back to 9 before you have a chance to cut the lead further, it's not like it's really a two-possession game because by the end of the possession (their turn with the ball) it's already extended back to three.

[Big Papi]

Pomeroy and Vegas are great for "in general here's how far apart these two teams are talentwise." They don't look at matchups at all. I was expecting a 25 point Iowa-style coast to coast beatdown. Instead, we were down 2 (should have been tied) at halftime, down 1 with 15 minutes left, and down 6 with less than 10 minutes left. The game always felt in reach until the last 5 minutes. Our two bigs and our best offensive player fouled out and Purdue was able to extend the lead at the end. I don't consider this a blow out at all.

To me, that game never felt in reach last night even when we made the run at the end of the first half when both bigs were on the bench.  I knew they were going to dominate the second half as it was obvious from the get go that Purdue was just bigger, stronger, more experienced and an overall better team.

Sadly, I thought we played as good as we could play against them and still lost by 15.  I get Purdue is a very good team but the "bad matchup" mantra is an excuse.  I expected a bigger, better, more skilled Marquette team at this stage of the Wojo era.  Instead it is wait until next year.

[brewcity77]

To me, that game never felt in reach last night even when we made the run at the end of the first half when both bigs were on the bench.  I knew they were going to dominate the second half as it was obvious from the get go that Purdue was just bigger, stronger, more experienced and an overall better team.

+1

It felt like Wisconsin last year when Happ sat nearly the entire first half. We came out with a 5-point lead and my first response at halftime was that it wasn't enough. Not surprisingly, they decimated us in the second with Happ available.

[tower912]

The physical domination felt like the South Carolina game. Marquette competed, but the other team was physically bigger and stronger while being equally skilled.

[DCHoopster]

You can go back and check my posts if you like but I have always held that my expectation when Wojo was hired was a dismal first season, an improved second season, back in the tournament by the third season, a step back in the fourth season, and return to the tournament in the 5th season with an established foundation for a long tournament streak with deep runs in the tournament. So far, we have been right on schedule.

The step back in the fourth season might seem odd, but at the time I was expecting that our highly ranked 2013 class + Luke was going to be graduating at the end of the 3rd season. With such a big class departing it seemed likely that we might take a step back. Especially given how historically hard it has been for us to find a center like Luke.

I posted this a while back but I believe there are three ways to win at a high level in today's college basketball:

1. Recruit one and done talent. The only two schools that can legitimately do this in today's game is Kentucky and Duke.
2. Get good, non-one and done talent and get old. This is your Villanovas, Louisvilles, Purdues, Wisconsins, etc.
3. A combo of the two. Kansas, Michigan State, Arizona, North Carolina, etc.

I know the waiting is excruciating, but we haven't been allowed to get old yet. Wojo's first class are juniors, our best players are sophomores, and our bench is primarily freshmen. With us only losing Rowsey next season and gaining Morrow, Joey, and Bailey, I see a team that is going to be a top 25 team and have a chance to make a deep run in the tournament. The year after that, I see  us only losing two meh seniors in Haanif and Heldt and likely gaining some quality freshmen given the players we are in on for the 2019 class. We will be in position to make a deeper run then. I can't see beyond that at the moment, but it has the makings of a strong foundation for high level success.

We are only two games into this season. Until I see something that disrupts my vision of the 18-19 and 19-20 seasons, I am still on board. I'm tired....because rebuilding is exhausting...but I still like where we are heading.

The one concern I have at the moment for the future is the PG position. Howard and Elliott haven't earned my confidence as primary ballhandlers with these first two games. But it has also only been two games and both are nursing nagging injuries so I'm not ready to declare that we need a new PG next year yet.

I agree with you, this year MU is to young and not deep.  Physically small, different next year and the following.  Better look for a grad point guard for next year, it might help to get a seasoned player instead of a frosh.  Ellenson hurt Wojo leaving early as well as Carter.  Has some talent but not enough.  Bailey could be the X
factor next year.  One thing I must say, I do not think there is a better team in the Big East better then Purdue.  No team has there size.  One stat discouraging is 26 out of 29 possessions in the second half they scored.  I do not know why but they come out of the locker room in the second half and get squashed.  Happened a great deal of the time last year as well, 54 points in the second half???

[fjm]

A bunch of you pissed and moaned that we WERENT doubling the 7'3" center.

So we double him.... and then the same guys piss and moan that they are hitting open shots on kick outs.... whaaaaat did you think was going to happen??

I get the D is a concern. But we were playing a team that is almost equal to us in shooting abilities. Were you really expecting them to miss open 3's?


Sorry I've been at work all day and haven't gotten to read the rest of the posts and this is probably a small subset of people. But it's a sentiment I am seeing frequently.

[Goose]

TAMU

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Some of your points are quite valid, but not quite sure on how going backwards in year four makes sense in the big plan. On paper next year would appear to look better, but many on here were saying that last year. I guess the over the top optimism of some clouds the big picture to me.

I have said many times that I can stomach a rebuild if the end product is a new and improved version of the previous guys. Aside from recruiting nice kids, which is fine, a long way to go to match previous guy's bar. I expect a losing season this season and hope you are right on the future.

[cheebs09]

The defense to start the year worries me. Rowsey, Cheatham, Sacar, Heldt have been in the program 3 years. Howard and Hauser are on their second year. That's our main 6 players.

I guess at what point does Wojo change the scheme to his players. Maybe he has and we just are that bad collectively on defense. I just have a tough time reading that "Wojo doesn't have the players to fit his defensive system." At some point, it may just be a poor system.

I also don't like the roster construction. We have 2.5 red shirts on the team right now and an open roster spot. That really hurts the depth. We saw that last night with the foul trouble. Even when Froling gets back, it won't be a very deep team. We've never had a full 13 with Wojo, have we?

[brewcity77]

Here's the problem. If this were an isolated incident, I'd be a lot more forgiving of the defense. But just 5 days ago, Mount St. Mary's shot 16/23 on two-point field goals against us. Our interior defense is terrible. Yes, we have been better defending the three, but if we are allowing teams to score at will on us, and we are and it isn't just Purdue, then we are back in last year's boat where we have to outscore every opponent.

[DCHoopster]

Here's the problem. If this were an isolated incident, I'd be a lot more forgiving of the defense. But just 5 days ago, Mount St. Mary's shot 16/23 on two-point field goals against us. Our interior defense is terrible. Yes, we have been better defending the three, but if we are allowing teams to score at will on us, and we are and it isn't just Purdue, then we are back in last year's boat where we have to outscore every opponent.

Lets see how they play against VCU, different team, quick smaller pressing team, no real bigs.  New coach have no idea how they play

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

TAMU

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Some of your points are quite valid, but not quite sure on how going backwards in year four makes sense in the big plan. On paper next year would appear to look better, but many on here were saying that last year. I guess the over the top optimism of some clouds the big picture to me.

I have said many times that I can stomach a rebuild if the end product is a new and improved version of the previous guys. Aside from recruiting nice kids, which is fine, a long way to go to match previous guy's bar. I expect a losing season this season and hope you are right on the future.

Oh I don't think going backwards in year 4 is a good thing, I just looked at our roster and said "I think we are going to graduate 4 starters (including our first true center in years) in 2017." Most programs will take at least a small step backwards if that happens. Now due to transfers and such it only ended up being three starters graduating in 2017. I'm sure there were people last season who said we would be better this season. I personally wasn't one of them. Losing Katin, Luke, and JJJ and gaining a bunch of three star freshmen is unlikely to result in a better season. That being said, I think it is too early to be able to definitively say how good this team is.

Agreed on your second paragraph. Wojo cannot hold a candle to Buzz' on court success yet. I'm hopeful that he will eventually surpass him and will not be satisfied until he does. I think when all is said and done, Wojo will be viewed as the better hire of the two of them. Fair or not, I put a lot of weight when I judge a coach in the state he leaves the program. Buzz had great on court success and then left the program a mess in need of a rebuild. Cuonzo just did the same thing at Cal. My hope is that Wojo will have that level of on court success and build the program so it can sustain that level of success for years to come.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Here's the problem. If this were an isolated incident, I'd be a lot more forgiving of the defense. But just 5 days ago, Mount St. Mary's shot 16/23 on two-point field goals against us. Our interior defense is terrible. Yes, we have been better defending the three, but if we are allowing teams to score at will on us, and we are and it isn't just Purdue, then we are back in last year's boat where we have to outscore every opponent.

Most of that 16/23 occurred after Marquette had built a 36 point lead. I'm not saying the interior defense is good by any stretch, but I'm not sure that particular stat is that meaningful.

The guarding the three better is why I'm encouraged about the defense. Last season we couldn't stop people inside or outside. This season it seems like we might be able to stop people on the outside at least.

[Jockey]

Duke game last night was extremely interesting for what Coach K did. This is the ultimate man defense coach who came out and played zone most of the game.

Reason was simple. 4 freshmen were starting. If guys can't play man D, then try something else.

[tower912]

I saw what Coach K and smiled a little, thinking he got it from Wojo.   However, it is tough to zone with two little guys up top.    Syracuse is successful year in and out with long athletes who use their length to disrupt passing lanes and collapse the post.    It has been decades since Syracuse had guards the size of Markus and Andrew. 

[fjm]

Most of that 16/23 occurred after Marquette had built a 36 point lead. I'm not saying the interior defense is good by any stretch, but I'm not sure that particular stat is that meaningful.

This. Exactly this TAMU. Everyone is upset but they forget that we had the freshman playing 5 straight minutes to end the game.
People would prefer we win by 50 and have a great D% against a crummy team than get any freshman play time.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Duke game last night was extremely interesting for what Coach K did. This is the ultimate man defense coach who came out and played zone most of the game.

Reason was simple. 4 freshmen were starting. If guys can't play man D, then try something else.

We went on our skid last season when Wojo fell in love with the zone after the Nova game. We went on our run at the end of the season when Wojo finally killed the zone.

Our guards are too small for a zone and it bogs our offense down. For better or worse, we are a run and gun offense first team. Personally, I think our defense is improved from last season.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

I get that, but we never had the ball in that position. When you get it to 6 and it's back to 9 before you have a chance to cut the lead further, it's not like it's really a two-possession game because by the end of the possession (their turn with the ball) it's already extended back to three.

I will acknowledge your viewpoint and avoid any more of a semantics debate.

[brewcity77]

Most of that 16/23 occurred after Marquette had built a 36 point lead. I'm not saying the interior defense is good by any stretch, but I'm not sure that particular stat is that meaningful.

The guarding the three better is why I'm encouraged about the defense. Last season we couldn't stop people inside or outside. This season it seems like we might be able to stop people on the outside at least.

Andrei noted the 9/16 before MSM went 7/7 at the end, but the early part of the second half included a 5/5 2PFG stretch from MSM when our starters were still in.

Clearly it's early and there's still a lot of season to play. I agree that how we do in Maui will be a better indicator than these first two games. That said, there were warning bells in the MSM game that continued in the Purdue game, and it wasn't just because of the late stretch with 3 freshmen playing.

[#UnleashSean]

Andrei noted the 9/16 before MSM went 7/7 at the end, but the early part of the second half included a 5/5 2PFG stretch from MSM when our starters were still in.

Clearly it's early and there's still a lot of season to play. I agree that how we do in Maui will be a better indicator than these first two games. That said, there were warning bells in the MSM game that continued in the Purdue game, and it wasn't just because of the late stretch with 3 freshmen playing.

There have been warning bells for 4 years that haven't gotten fixed.

[bilsu]

We will not know, if this team has a chance to be a good team until Froling gets a couple of games under his belt. He will make a huge difference,  if he can adequately back up Heldt at center and Sam at power forward. Sam should not have to play center or 30+ minutes a game.

As far as point guard for this year. Rowsey did a good job bringing the ball up. Where he got in trouble was taking the ball in to deep.