P U thoughts

[MU82]

What does surprise me, though, is that TAMU, 82 and others feel better about this year's team after watching last night's game.

I feel our defense improved (until we just got worn down late). I feel we competed really hard. I feel we hung in very well against the defending BT champs who just might win it again. I feel if Froling is any good we will have a winning BE record and be a bubble team. We have weaknesses that will be exposed, but we also have strengths that I'm hopeful can help overcome the weaknesses most games. Haani remains troublesome, and Matt is a 10-15 min backup, but I liked what I saw from John.

Maybe I'm wrong about all of that. But I still prefer it to the alternative: We're 1-1; ipso fatso, we're doomed!

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

What does surprise me, though, is that TAMU, 82 and others feel better about this year's team after watching last night's game. Pomeroy had us losing by 1, Vegas by 4 or 5. Instead we were blown out.

Pomeroy and Vegas are great for "in general here's how far apart these two teams are talentwise." They don't look at matchups at all. I was expecting a 25 point Iowa-style coast to coast beatdown. Instead, we were down 2 (should have been tied) at halftime, down 1 with 15 minutes left, and down 6 with less than 10 minutes left. The game always felt in reach until the last 5 minutes. Our two bigs and our best offensive player fouled out and Purdue was able to extend the lead at the end. I don't consider this a blow out at all.

[MerrittsMustache]

Pomeroy and Vegas are great for "in general here's how far apart these two teams are talentwise." They don't look at matchups at all. I was expecting a 25 point Iowa-style coast to coast beatdown. Instead, we were down 2 (should have been tied) at halftime, down 1 with 15 minutes left, and down 6 with less than 10 minutes left. The game always felt in reach until the last 5 minutes. Our two bigs and our best offensive player fouled out and Purdue was able to extend the lead at the end. I don't consider this a blow out at all.

I agree that MU didn't get blown out. However, I'd disagree that the game felt "in reach" for most of the second half.

MU cut the lead to 1 with about 15 to play and Purdue quickly responded with a 9-1 run and that was pretty much that. MU got within 6 a couple times but, to me, it never felt like MU was poised to make a run down the stretch.

[brewcity77]

I agree that MU didn't get blown out. However, I'd disagree that the game felt "in reach" for most of the second half.

MU cut the lead to 1 with about 15 to play and Purdue quickly responded with a 9-1 run and that was pretty much that. MU got within 6 a couple times but, to me, it never felt like MU was poised to make a run down the stretch.

+1

The second half never really felt close, and after that run the game was over. After that run, we scored on 5 straight possessions. You would think that would cut into the lead, but it was at 9 before those 5 possessions and it was at 9 after those 5 possessions because we couldn't stop them to save our lives. No matter how hot we got, we were never going to catch them.

[warriorchick]

I agree that MU didn't get blown out. However, I'd disagree that the game felt "in reach" for most of the second half.

MU cut the lead to 1 with about 15 to play and Purdue quickly responded with a 9-1 run and that was pretty much that. MU got within 6 a couple times but, to me, it never felt like MU was poised to make a run down the stretch.

Any time you are within two buckets of tying the score, you are within reach.

[MerrittsMustache]

Any time you are within two buckets of tying the score, you are within reach.

What about when you can't stop the other team from scoring? 

[GrimmReaper33]

The game was only close in the first half because Purdue couldn't get a three to drop.  I believe they were 0-6 from three in the first half and I don't think it was because of great defense by MU.  They hit just 2 of those and they are up 8 at half, and the game never feels all that close.  Once Purdue finally got a couple 3's to drop, they essentially were blowing MU out the rest of the way.

I'm surprised how many people on here are more encouraged after last night's game.  Purdue is a good team and a tough matchup, but MU's help defense was awful, double teams were weak and late, rotations were late and slow, Heldt/John combined for 1 rebound in 26 minutes, and Rowsey/Howard still can't stay in front of anybody.  Seems like the defense hasn't improved at all, IMO. 

Another big concern is the lack of offense outside of Howard, Rowsey, and Hauser.  Howard & Rowsey are ridiculous offensive players but this team is not going to beat a quality opponent when one of those two has an off night.  They are damn good, but it's a lot to ask them to combine for 50 points every game.  I guess we can hope Froling cures all weaknesses, but it's no sure thing.

Seems to me the offense will be worse than last year and no real improvement defensively.  I see the ceiling of this team as sneaking into the tourney as a 10 seed or worse. 

[Goose]

Lenny

I am not surprised that folks were encouraged by last night. The same crowd that is always optimistic. IMO, you have to be a big time optimist to not be discouraged after last night.

[brewcity77]

Any time you are within two buckets of tying the score, you are within reach.

We were never within two buckets of tying the score with the ball after the 9-1 run. We cut it to 6 twice, both times Purdue answered with an immediate three. Anyone that felt close after the 13:00 mark is way more optimistic than I am, and I'm about as optimistic a Marquette fan as they come.

[mayfairskatingrink]

I know Rowsey is frustrating, but MU fans should thank the Lord every night that he's there, because without him, MU would be lucky to win a few BE games this season.  Where are all those points going to come from next season?

Few will agree, but it looks like MU has 3 legit, high D1 players on the roster.  None of the Freshman look to have a high ceiling, and when you're rebuilding with four year players, you can't afford a dud class.

IMO, Wojo still isn't a good coach overall, but having season tickets in a prime location now really lets you see the difference in talent between Purdue and MU.

Did Heldt do any weight training in the off-season?

[muguru]

1.) For all the credit that Todd Smith gets (and rightfully so in many cases) I'm amazed that Haney is still a well-below-the-rim player. No improvement on his athleticism. Does he have knee/leg problems we don't know about? No explosion to the rim. His role is better suited as the Duane Wilson role -- come in to provide defense for 10-15 minutes, and can possibly get 10-12 points against lesser competition.

2.) We need to ban "bad matchup" from our vocabulary on this board. Any team that has experience and/or is talented at the game of basketball will be a bad matchup for MU this season.

Amen! I know everytime i read the after game thread here after a loss the term "bad matchup" will be prevalent. I find it tiring and all it is is an excuse. Plain and simple.

Another one is "next year". I get the optimism, and rightly so..but I'm tired of hearing "next year" under Wojo's tenure. How about the "right now"? Do we keep waiting for "next year"?

Yes..it's one loss early in the year, but I saw someone in a post earlier say "I was expecting a loss". Stop and think about that for a minute..that's what this fanbase has become, because the product is such that it's resorted to "expecting a loss"? Oh how the mighty have fallen..that's truly sad.

That being said..I think we will learn a lot more about this team in Maui..a first game loss and that would be very telling..oh wait..Nvm, it will be because VCU was a "bad matchup"..so that will excuse it. 

[BM1090]

I know Rowsey is frustrating, but MU fans should thank the Lord every night that he's there, because without him, MU would be lucky to win a few BE games this season.  Where are all those points going to come from next season?

Few will agree, but it looks like MU has 3 legit, high D1 players on the roster.  None of the Freshman look to have a high ceiling, and when you're rebuilding with four year players, you can't afford a dud class.

IMO, Wojo still isn't a good coach overall, but having season tickets in a prime location now really lets you see the difference in talent between Purdue and MU.

Did Heldt do any weight training in the off-season?

Completely disagree with the freshmen having a high celing. Elliot and Cain have a ton of potential. Super high ceiling. Unfortunately, they also have lower floors.

[Goose]

MUeagle

What was your take on HC during his freshman season? Many on here thought the sky was the limit. Some on here stated he was at his ceiling. Curious on what you thought of HC two years ago. If memory serves me, my self, and possibly Lenny or another old guard poster, stated he looked like Rony Eford to us.

[Nukem2]

MUeagle

What was your take on HC during his freshman season? Many on here thought the sky was the limit. Some on here stated he was at his ceiling. Curious on what you thought of HC two years ago. If memory serves me, my self, and possibly Lenny or another old guard poster, stated he looked like Rony Eford to us.

Haanif was never going to be more than a solid role player.

[MerrittsMustache]

MUeagle

What was your take on HC during his freshman season? Many on here thought the sky was the limit. Some on here stated he was at his ceiling. Curious on what you thought of HC two years ago. If memory serves me, my self, and possibly Lenny or another old guard poster, stated he looked like Rony Eford to us.

Cheatham brings a lot to the table but it just doesn't all add up. He's got some herky-jerky penetrating ability but he still struggles to kick/dish when he drives. He can get to the rim but his lack of athleticism often prevents him from scoring. He's a good spot-up shooter but he shoots a set-shot that is   s  l  o  w   to get out of his hand. The tools are there but he still has the same limits as when he got to MU.

Additionally, despite his talent, he's not an ideal fit for this current MU team. He's obviously not a big body, he's not a slasher, he can't go get his own shot and when he penetrates his inability to pass (along with Heldt clogging the lane) limits his impact offensively. He's missing a pull-up game but, again, there's not a whole lot of "up" to his game. When MU had Henry and Luke drawing defenders, it really opened things up for Haanif. With an offense based around a couple of under-sized guards, there's no one drawing that type of attention that would free things up for HC to utilize his strengths.

[79Warrior]

Lenny

I am not surprised that folks were encouraged by last night. The same crowd that is always optimistic. IMO, you have to be a big time optimist to not be discouraged after last night.

I think the next three games will give us a much better snapshot of how the non- Froling part of the schedule will pan out. Hard not to be disappointed with HC.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Amen! I know everytime i read the after game thread here after a loss the term "bad matchup" will be prevalent. I find it tiring and all it is is an excuse. Plain and simple.

Another one is "next year". I get the optimism, and rightly so..but I'm tired of hearing "next year" under Wojo's tenure. How about the "right now"? Do we keep waiting for "next year"?

Yes..it's one loss early in the year, but I saw someone in a post earlier say "I was expecting a loss". Stop and think about that for a minute..that's what this fanbase has become, because the product is such that it's resorted to "expecting a loss"? Oh how the mighty have fallen..that's truly sad.

That being said..I think we will learn a lot more about this team in Maui..a first game loss and that would be very telling..oh wait..Nvm, it will be because VCU was a "bad matchup"..so that will excuse it. 

1. I don't know about others, but when I say bad matchup I only use it when it is truly a bad matchup. Go read my preview on Purdue on PaintTouches from a month ago. Was saying it long before the results of last night.

2. VCU is not a bad matchup, it's a good matchup for us. If we lose, that would be devastating to our potential for this season.

3. I have been expecting losses in certain games since I was old enough to understand sports. It's called being realistic. I have never been fortunate enough to be a fan of team that was the favorite to win every game in a season.

4. I understand being tired of hearing "next year." I'm tired of it too. If it doesn't happen after year 5, that's when I personally will move from tired to impatient.

[GoldenDieners32]

We're going to be fine, bad matchup

[THRILLHO]

Completely disagree with the freshmen having a high celing. Elliot and Cain have a ton of potential. Super high ceiling. Unfortunately, they also have lower floors.

Floors are always lower than ceilings.

[Windyplayer]

IMO, Wojo still isn't a good coach overall, but having season tickets in a prime location now really lets you see the difference in talent between Purdue and MU.

Neck girth?

[cheebs09]

Floors are always lower than ceilings.

The ceiling is the roof.

[Goose]

TAMU

What gives you optimism that things are going the right direction? I am not saying they are not, but curious on what you think the progress has been the last two years. I have stated several times that I like that Wojo swung for the fences on Grimes. IMO, getting Henry, Marcus and Joey are positives in the big picture. That said, Henry season was a bust, it will at least be two bust years for Marcus and we will see how Joey is as college player.

I am trying to be a glass half full guy, but struggling on how to get there. I'm hoping you can share tangible insights and not the typical Scoop talk.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

One interesting thing I noticed about Purdue. Only one of their starting 5 from last night was a top 100 player per the 247 Composite. Haas was #87 in 2014. The two Edwards were both in the top 150. Mathias was around 250 and Thompson was sub 350. Painter has done a good job identifying talent that works in his system and developing them over the years.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

We were never within two buckets of tying the score with the ball after the 9-1 run. We cut it to 6 twice, both times Purdue answered with an immediate three. Anyone that felt close after the 13:00 mark is way more optimistic than I am, and I'm about as optimistic a Marquette fan as they come.

Technically, two 3fg would have tied it.  That is how I read it.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

TAMU

What gives you optimism that things are going the right direction? I am not saying they are not, but curious on what you think the progress has been the last two years. I have stated several times that I like that Wojo swung for the fences on Grimes. IMO, getting Henry, Marcus and Joey are positives in the big picture. That said, Henry season was a bust, it will at least be two bust years for Marcus and we will see how Joey is as college player.

I am trying to be a glass half full guy, but struggling on how to get there. I'm hoping you can share tangible insights and not the typical Scoop talk.

Goose - I agree, this year is going to somewhere between ok to not great (same as last year really but probably more difficult without Luke and KR)...hopefully the team improves as the year goes on and we make a step change with Froling.  IMO this is all about next year at this point with some strong reinforcements with Morrow and hopefully Joey.   

I hope the boys see how much stronger they need to get....compare pictures of Divincenzo year to year and then do the same with HC and Heldt as examples.