MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: 1SE on November 29, 2019, 03:37:02 AM
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Any theories about why the refs are so hard on Theo? Last night was another example of 2 or 3 barely or ghost fouls that severely limited his time on court. Arguably had Theo been able to put in 25 min, Davidson wouldn't have been +22 (or whatever) in the paint.
My theory is this - Theo is a huge, strong and fierce looking dude. Refs see any contact and figure it must be him initiating. When he DOES actually foul it's usually pretty hard so that brings closer scrutiny and then I wonder if having a reputation for fouling probably leads to getting more fouls called. Do refs have "scout sheets"?
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I’m optimistic he will get more freedom in the Big East.
He got completely screwed in the Garden last year.
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Because he has a tendency to extend his arms forward when he thinks he's straight up. I would argue only one of those fouls wasn't legit by a fair reading of the rules. Another couple should have been let go
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Because he has a tendency to extend his arms forward when he thinks he's straight up. I would argue only one of those fouls wasn't legit by a fair reading of the rules. Another couple should have been let go
Bingo. The refs anticipate on that call as it is. Stan was talking to him on the bench about that exact thing. However, that fifth foul looked all phantom.
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Bingo. The refs anticipate on that call as it is. Stan was talking to him on the bench about that exact thing. However, that fifth foul looked all phantom.
I don’t know. He looked straight up, but he jumped into him with the body. I feel like that foul gets called a lot.
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I don’t know. He looked straight up, but he jumped into him with the body. I feel like that foul gets called a lot.
You are 100% correct on the last foul. A couple of the others were really ticky tack but I think were at least defensable from the refs point of view.
I have been saying this for a couple of years now, but the NCAA wants games called like this. And it means a ton of whistles and games that are choppy and not watchable.
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But doesn't it seem Theo gets called tighter than most? I guess Jaycee had 4 too...
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You are 100% correct on the last foul. A couple of the others were really ticky tack but I think were at least defensable from the refs point of view.
I have been saying this for a couple of years now, but the NCAA wants games called like this. And it means a ton of whistles and games that are choppy and not watchable.
I saw it live versus TV so I could be wrong but I saw a lot of space between Theo and the shooter (and I thought the ref anticipated the foul). Theo did do a weird deke in and then moved out. The person next to me thought that earned him the foul. I will go with the TV version then and retract.
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I don’t know. He looked straight up, but he jumped into him with the body. I feel like that foul gets called a lot.
That was one that easily could've been let go, but as soon as Theo left his feet he put himself at risk. I felt it was a bad foul both in regards that the ref didn't need to make the call, but also that Theo didn't need to give them a reason to even consider it.
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Theo is big. Theo is strong. Theo is scarey.
The refs are afraid of Theo. The ticky tac stuff is a way of stopping an assertive foul before it gets started.
Given his size and strength, Theo has to learn imaginary fouls are going to be called. He needs to make sure that he is NOT giving the refs a reason to call imaginary fouls.
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Similarly, refs called moving picks on Heldt before he even stepped on the floor. It was an easy call to make that the refs knew they could make without a backlash. I believe Theo is marked for a foul the first sign of contact.
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The idea Theo is infallible and for three years the refs have been out to get him is crazy.
Every player experiences bad calls. The problem with Theo is that he leans into defenders and tries to block every shot. He’s Uber athletic but not a smart shot blocker.
Until he improves on his defensive IQ, he’ll always be in foul trouble. It’s not the refs people cmon.
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Last night aside,.....many of Theo’s fouls are fouls. He has needed to do better with positioning his feet and lower half. And he needs to improve his finesse game as well to go along with the things he does well. Some teams will go right at him. He has to adjust.
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The idea Theo is infallible and for three years the refs have been out to get him is crazy.
Every player experiences bad calls. The problem with Theo is that he leans into defenders and tries to block every shot. He’s Uber athletic but not a smart shot blocker.
Until he improves on his defensive IQ, he’ll always be in foul trouble. It’s not the refs people cmon.
It’s both - the refs absolutely play a part in it.
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Last night the refs were just bad. Way to quick with the whistle, which really disrupted the flow of the game. When officials are that quick with the whistle, Theo is going to be in trouble.
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It’s both - the refs absolutely play a part in it.
It has been 3 years with Theo now and yes he has improved but he is a liability on the offensive end and so foul prone you wonder how he
has improved. I do not like that Wojo has recruited 3 centers that can not face up on the basket. Hopefully this will change with Dawson, and
the lane will be opened instead of the center always to the back of the basket, there is no such thing as pick and pop with our centers. Rather
have Reuvers, hopefully that is how Dawson plays. At least somebody in the middle that can hit a 10 foot J. It will interesting how they play
USC tonight who is not that good but has some size.
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Theo is big. Theo is strong. Theo is scarey.
The refs are afraid of Theo. The ticky tac stuff is a way of stopping an assertive foul before it gets started.
Given his size and strength, Theo has to learn imaginary fouls are going to be called. He needs to make sure that he is NOT giving the refs a reason to call imaginary fouls.
Wait... Is Theo...Feared? Isn't that exactly what we've wanted?
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Theo had only 2 fouls total in each of our first two games, and was huge in the Purdue comeback, playing 34 minutes and getting only 2 fouls all night. He had 3 fouls total in 23 minutes against Robert Morris. He unfortunately had foul trouble against F%cky and Davidson, meaning 40% of our games so far.
Theo has stopped getting the kind of 35-feet-from-basket offensive foul that Jayce got last night, and he also has improved at establishing his vertical space on defense. He still tends to leave his feet easily, putting himself at risk of fouls, and as others note he still tends to move his arms forward, which looks like a foul to refs even if it might not be one. Add in a bad call or two, and he will get in foul trouble sometimes -- as is the case with most shot-blockers.
I like having an intimidating center who challenges most shots. So far this season, there has been improvement. We don't win the Purdue game without him being The Man on D. I'll take Theo John on my team every day of the week.
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It has been 3 years with Theo now and yes he has improved but he is a liability on the offensive end and so foul prone you wonder how he
has improved. I do not like that Wojo has recruited 3 centers that can not face up on the basket. Hopefully this will change with Dawson, and
the lane will be opened instead of the center always to the back of the basket, there is no such thing as pick and pop with our centers. Rather
have Reuvers, hopefully that is how Dawson plays. At least somebody in the middle that can hit a 10 foot J. It will interesting how they play
USC tonight who is not that good but has some size.
He has just improved in every statistical category including fouls per game and minutes per game so there is that. He had one game where he fouled out so we should declare that he is a liability and somehow hasn’t gotten better.
Theo’s role is not on the offense. His role is defense and protect the rim. A lot of Theo’s fouls come not because of himself but that he is covering for a teammate. When you have a guard coming at you full speed, you jump up, bring your arms down to swat the ball and there is any contact it will be called a foul. There will be contact because the guard is jumping into your chest.
His role on offense is to rebound, set picks and be ready for a dump off pass as his defender rotates to help. Occasionally they work the ball to him on the post and he is to take the shot or throw it to the teammate whose defender rotates for help.
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He needs a less noticeable haircut.
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The refs continued to hate Theo today, but they pretty much hated everybody else too.
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The refs continued to hate Theo today, but they pretty much hated everybody else too.
They mostly hated the fans.
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They mostly hated the fans.
Haha...it was mutual.
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Any thought of starting Jayce for the first 4 minutes to prevent Theo from foul #1 in the first 30 seconds...ie Williams for Crowder?
TJ again picked up his first foul yesterday less than a minute in, and another foul (his 3rd?) 30 seconds into the 2nd half. Need to maximize his time on the floor....other than just saying he’s got to play smarter.
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Any thought of starting Jayce for the first 4 minutes to prevent Theo from foul #1 in the first 30 seconds...ie Williams for Crowder?
TJ again picked up his first foul yesterday less than a minute in, and another foul (his 3rd?) 30 seconds into the 2nd half. Need to maximize his time on the floor....other than just saying he’s got to play smarter.
I don't know about that, but it's not crazy.
When he coached Illinois, Bill Self had a "first foul and out" rule for his bigs. As soon as Cook, Augustine, Archibald, Smith, etc, got a foul, he would come out for a few minutes. Self's reasoning was that fouls sometimes come in bunches, or out of frustration, and he didn't want one of them to pick up 2 in just a few minutes. Plus, he had the depth at the position to do it.
Frankly, I haven't watched Kansas closely enough to know if he does anything similar.
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Any thought of starting Jayce for the first 4 minutes to prevent Theo from foul #1 in the first 30 seconds...ie Williams for Crowder?
TJ again picked up his first foul yesterday less than a minute in, and another foul (his 3rd?) 30 seconds into the 2nd half. Need to maximize his time on the floor....other than just saying he’s got to play smarter.
I would actually consider this. Not only would this take some of the early emotion out of the game for Theo, but it would also give him a look at how the refs are calling the game.
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I would actually consider this. Not only would this take some of the early emotion out of the game for Theo, but it would also give him a look at how the refs are calling the game.
I like this. Also lets a 7 footer do tip-off.
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I like this. Also lets a 7 footer do tip-off.
Agreed, plus it would let Jayce get in the flow a bit for if/when needed later. Starting is a badge of honor though, even though I know we all know it's who gets more minutes that actually matters.
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The idea Theo is infallible and for three years the refs have been out to get him is crazy.
Every player experiences bad calls. The problem with Theo is that he leans into defenders and tries to block every shot. He’s Uber athletic but not a smart shot blocker.
Until he improves on his defensive IQ, he’ll always be in foul trouble. It’s not the refs people cmon.
Exactly! Theo gets called for a lot of fouls because he commits a lot of fouls.
That being said, I am glad he is on our team.
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Part of the problem for Theo is that his reputation has preceded him.
Once guys are perceived to be foul-prone, refs seem to keep a keen eye on their movements, especially big guys in the paint.
As a result, Theo does not get the benefit of the doubt in close calls.
What I like about Theo is his aggressiveness. I don't want him to lose that by being overly concerned with fouling.
Go Warriors!
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Sat near Jimmy Mac for the USC game. Mac said that he needs to stop going for blocks on his man altogether. He is a good weak side shot blocker but should never attempt to block his man. Just use his footwork and stay vertical.
Without fail two of Theo's fouls was him partially leaving his feet when his man made a move or when he was the main defender after penetration.