Jake Thomas 3 Point Shooting

[Stretchdeltsig]

Shoot what?  Ducks?

[MarquetteDano]

Shoot what?  Ducks?

A bit harsh.  I think at this point I have been pleasantly suprised by his defense & rebounding. Obviously his shooting has been a disappointment but when someone is a shooter and does not get 20+ minutes they can struggle for extended periods.

If the man is open I still want him to shoot.

[gjreda]

For reference, DJO shot 26% from three through his first 11 games in 2010, and then went on to shoot 40% through the rest of the season.

I feel like there was similar panic at the time.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

The guy can shoot and he's fairly athletic. But a shooter with no confidence should be dominating at the Rec Center not wasting everybody's time at the BC.

He's passing up shots and, for that reason alone, he should be glued to the bench.

[LA]

I still think Jake can shoot. Everything looks ok, but for whatever reason they aren't going down.

He's competing at this level and is a good role player.

A good role player is a Joe Chapman type. Makes open shots, rebounds, plays tough D. Jake has been a below average role player.

[Markusquette]

I still think Jake can shoot. Everything looks ok, but for whatever reason they aren't going down.

He's competing at this level and is a good role player.

Agreed.

[Spaniel with a Short Tail]

Hmmmm...Stud of the UW-GB Game!?!   

[jsglow]

Sultan, I think we are destined to disagree here.   You and I haven't agreed in a thing we have seen out of Lockett or Thomas this year.    To me, it appears that neither one is used to playing at MU's game speed.   It affects Lockett when he puts the ball on the floor, it affects Jake when he rushes his 3.   I have been more pleased with Jakes defense than Lockett's, though I admit that Trent has rebounded well.   But TL was flat out awful in the second half today.  I think we CAN agree that having Mayo back playing in rhythm will be a benefit to the team.  

+1

I believe that one of the keys to the season is if Buzz can find a way to make both of these guys more productive in what they do.  The mark of a truly great coach is to build around the talent he has.  My thinking is that Jake has been asked to do more than he is capable of doing at this level and his shot has suffered.  It's not only the misses, it's now the fact that his shots are now 'outside the rim' misses. 

Hey coach, let's ask Jake to do less but to do what he does well better.  If ALL he gives you is B- defense, ball handling and rebounding but can provide A- zone busting from his favorite spots, then learn how to use that effectively.  Steve Kerr won multiple championships doing that next to Jordan on the Bulls.

[Lazer Sound]

I think at this point I have been pleasantly suprised by his defense & rebounding. Obviously his shooting has been a disappointment but when someone is a shooter and does not get 20+ minutes they can struggle for extended periods.

If the man is open I still want him to shoot.

I agree with you.  My biggest problem with Jake however is that when he has been open, and I mean like a shooter is open, not the average player, he still defers.  I assume this is because he wants to mesh into this team and not make mistakes (Trent does the same).  But shooters hurt the team when they pass open looks up and give the ball to people who are going to have to drive to be open.  If Jake would just take more attempts, I think his %s would actually go up.  Right now a big part of the problem is probably game reps.  Let it fly JT!

[Dr. Blackheart]

I agree with you.  My biggest problem with Jake however is that when he has been open, and I mean like a shooter is open, not the average player, he still defers.  I assume this is because he wants to mesh into this team and not make mistakes (Trent does the same).  But shooters hurt the team when they pass open looks up and give the ball to people who are going to have to drive to be open.  If Jake would just take more attempts, I think his %s would actually go up.  Right now a big part of the problem is probably game reps.  Let it fly JT!

He has had to play the role as the primary back-up guard versus the situational trey launcher.  His stats show a highly efficient player because his role has been the exchange guard, whose role is to move the ball rapidly from point to point first and look to shoot second. With Todd back, Jake's value with less minutes may actually make him more effective as a shoot first situational.

[bilsu]

As Mayo gets up to speed, Thomas should rarely see the floor. Lord knows he won't be playing much next year.

I am not sure that is correct. In the first half against LSU, both Mayo and Thomas were on the floor at the same time. The play I specifically remember was Thomas was on the left wing and Mayo was on the right wing. What happen? Derick Wilson drove down the middle and made a basket. Playing both at once spreads the floor and I suspect we will see a lot of that. Mayo coming back does not take away many minutes from Thomas. Mayo's playing time will mostly come at the expense of Lockett and Taylor.

[MU82]

Thomas' job is to spread the court, make it hard for opponents to double-team Gardner by packing the lane and to make a 3-pointer if an opportunity comes his way. If he can't make wide-open 3s -- and he hasn't been able to do so for weeks -- he simply cannot be given playing time. Especially not after Mayo shakes off the rust, because Mayo has the potential to shoot every bit as well as Thomas (or better, we hope) while also playing D and rebounding.

[bilsu]

Thomas' job is to spread the court, make it hard for opponents to double-team Gardner by packing the lane and to make a 3-pointer if an opportunity comes his way. If he can't make wide-open 3s -- and he hasn't been able to do so for weeks -- he simply cannot be given playing time. Especially not after Mayo shakes off the rust, because Mayo has the potential to shoot every bit as well as Thomas (or better, we hope) while also playing D and rebounding.

It is easy to keep track of one three point shooter. The real spreading of the court comes from having one on both sides and that is what I think is going to happen. I think it also improves Thomas's three point shooting, because the other team also having to worry about Mayo will give Thomas more time to shoot.

[keefe]

A good role player is a Joe Chapman type. Makes open shots, rebounds, plays tough D. Jake has been a below average role player.

I think two role players who rose above were Cubillan and Acker. Who would have thought those two would have done as much as they did. Look at the season Marquette had with them at the 1 and 2. Coobie is playing in Venezuela. Where is Junior Mint? Did he go to Europe?

[MU82]

It is easy to keep track of one three point shooter. The real spreading of the court comes from having one on both sides and that is what I think is going to happen. I think it also improves Thomas's three point shooting, because the other team also having to worry about Mayo will give Thomas more time to shoot.

Jake couldn't have been more wide open in that LSU game and he still missed pretty badly. Is it possible that he actually has too much time to shoot sometimes?

But I do agree with your basic point. The more legit 3-point threats a team has on the perimeter, the better. Problem for us is that no well-coached opponent worries too much about our "threats" right now. If I'm playing against Marquette, I'm packing the lane until they prove they can make a few treys.

[bilsu]

Jake couldn't have been more wide open in that LSU game and he still missed pretty badly. Is it possible that he actually has too much time to shoot sometimes?

But I do agree with your basic point. The more legit 3-point threats a team has on the perimeter, the better. Problem for us is that no well-coached opponent worries too much about our "threats" right now. If I'm playing against Marquette, I'm packing the lane until they prove they can make a few treys.

I agree with you on this. However, there will be a time when a team is collapsing on Gardner and both Thomas and Mayo start hitting threes. At least that is what I am hoping for.

[keefe]

Junior Mint is playing in Europe. I notice he did a stint in Holland. I would think that would be his favorite place! Man loved his weed.

http://www.eurobasket.com/player.asp?PlayerID=90177

[jsglow]

He has had to play the role as the primary back-up guard versus the situational trey launcher.  His stats show a highly efficient player because his role has been the exchange guard, whose role is to move the ball rapidly from point to point first and look to shoot second. With Todd back, Jake's value with less minutes may actually make him more effective as a shoot first situational.

+1

My sincere hope is that Jake can assume that new role and be very effective in it.  His D and rebounding have been a pleasant surprise; certainly good enough on many days to allow him some minutes.  6-9 points a game would pay huge dividends for guys like DG. One/two threes a half with 40% accuracy.

[Stretchdeltsig]

Come on.  A shooter that can't shoot in the pre-season is useless in the Big East.  Jake had his chances and showed that he can't shoot under pressure in non-conference games. 

[jsglow]

Come on.  A shooter that can't shoot in the pre-season is useless in the Big East.  Jake had his chances and showed that he can't shoot under pressure in non-conference games. 

Your forgetting that he has a track record of strong 3 point ability.  (Many thought that might be his ONLY high D-1 skill.)

[🏀]

Your forgetting that he has a track record of strong 3 point ability.  (Many thought that might be his ONLY high D-1 skill.)

Still waiting for his high D-1 skills to warrant conference playing time.

[GGGG]

Your forgetting that he has a track record of strong 3 point ability.  (Many thought that might be his ONLY high D-1 skill.)

If you go back and look at his statistics, he had one good year as a 3 point shooter.  His freshman year where he played limited minutes.  (44%).  His last year at USD he shot about 35%, which is roughly Jae's percentage from last year and JFB's from the year before.  So while that was a threat, that is hardly a top level three point threat.

Now that he has stepped up in class, it isn't rocket science to see why his percentage has dropped even further.

[MU82]

If you go back and look at his statistics, he had one good year as a 3 point shooter.  His freshman year where he played limited minutes.  (44%).  His last year at USD he shot about 35%, which is roughly Jae's percentage from last year and JFB's from the year before.  So while that was a threat, that is hardly a top level three point threat.

Now that he has stepped up in class, it isn't rocket science to see why his percentage has dropped even further.

Great point, Sultan.

It's hard to see how Jake qualifies as a Big East-level player. Just because we want something to be true doesn't mean it will be true.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

If you go back and look at his statistics, he had one good year as a 3 point shooter.  His freshman year where he played limited minutes.  (44%).  His last year at USD he shot about 35%, which is roughly Jae's percentage from last year and JFB's from the year before.  So while that was a threat, that is hardly a top level three point threat.

Now that he has stepped up in class, it isn't rocket science to see why his percentage has dropped even further.

That's not exactly fair.

Even 35% for a high volume shooter is pretty good. He took almost 250 3pters as a soph. Some people act like Mayo is a "shooter" because he made 30 out of 100 last year.

% is a great measure, but volume needs to be considered as players usually become less efficient when their usage goes up. 

With this said, Jake hasn't taken or made many open looks this year. It could be the "speed of the game" as you have described several times, or maybe some bad luck.

Either way, I think he's adequate defensively and athletically, but if he can't make shots, his value is greatly reduced.
 

[GGGG]

That's not exactly fair.

Even 35% for a high volume shooter is pretty good. He took almost 250 3pters as a soph. Some people act like Mayo is a "shooter" because he made 30 out of 100 last year.

% is a great measure, but volume needs to be considered as players usually become less efficient when their usage goes up. 

With this said, Jake hasn't taken or made many open looks this year. It could be the "speed of the game" as you have described several times, or maybe some bad luck.

Either way, I think he's adequate defensively and athletically, but if he can't make shots, his value is greatly reduced. 

Couple things.  I'm not trying to be unfair, but I have always thought that people's expectations for his shooting ability exceeded what he is capable of doing.  On the other hand, his defense and rebounding is better than I thought it was.

Also, while comparisons to Mayo are valid, Mayo (like DJO who was a slightly better shooter) is a dual threat.  He can take it to the basket as well.  Jake hasn't shown that ability.