David Brown a top priority of Buzz Williams

[ChicosBailBonds]

http://mystateline.com/content/fulltext/?cid=9172

[4everwarriors]

So far there is little evidence Buzz can go toe to toe with coaches at big time programs for the same recruits. Then again, maybe our departed is "advising" him on who to target.

[Skatastrophy]

So far there is little evidence Buzz can go toe to toe with coaches at big time programs for the same recruits. Then again, maybe our departed is "advising" him on who to target.

Which of the other schools that are recruiting Brown are you considering "big time programs?"

DePaul, Loyola-Chicago, Ilinois State, NIU, Eastern Illinois, and Western Michigan?

If we can't recruit against them then we're in for some trouble.

[77ncaachamps]

From IL Prep Bullesye:

"6'2 guard Darius Smith from Marshall High School in Chicago and 6'3 guard David Brown from Hononegah High School in Rockton, IL are both high priority recruits for Marquette University.  In fact, Golden Eagles head coach Buzz Williams and his entire coaching staff are evaluating both Smith and Brown most intently and as of now let's just say that there is an extremely high level of interest.  At the present time Smith has offers from Bradley, Illinois State, Baylor, and Loyola-Chicago and is also receiving serious attention from Indiana, Iowa, Wisconsin, Southern Illinois and Kent State among others.  Brown, meanwhile, already has offers in the fold from DePaul, Loyola-Chicago, Wright State, Illinois State, Northern Illinois, Eastern Illinois and Western Michigan.  In addition, Northwestern is also a school that is showing increased interest in Brown.  We expect the number of offers for both of these players to increase at a rapid pace between now and the end of July. "

http://ilprepbullseye.com/page27.html

[4everwarriors]

Which of the other schools that are recruiting Brown are you considering "big time programs?"

DePaul, Loyola-Chicago, Ilinois State, NIU, Eastern Illinois, and Western Michigan?

If we can't recruit against them then we're in for some trouble.

You misunderstood my point. What I mean is now we're recruiting against mid major programs. Is that the state of the program? I want to see him go after top recruits that can compete in the BE. Otherwise, Buzz is doomed to fail. 

[dwaderoy2004]

So far there is little evidence Buzz can go toe to toe with coaches at big time programs for the same recruits. Then again, maybe our departed is "advising" him on who to target.

I think it is a little premature to make statements such as this.  Buzz is in on plenty of "big-name" recruits.  The fact that he is going after an under recruited guy right now is no cause for concern.  Rivals has him as a 3 star in their updated 2009 rankings, so it's not like the guy is a chump.  We won't really know if he can go toe-to-toe with other high-majors until the Fall when the recruits actually sign.  At that point, we'll have a better idea of who are high-priority recruits actually are, and we'll see if he can land them.  As of now, it is still mostly speculation as to who Buzz is really targeting.

[HarveysWallbangers]

You misunderstood my point. What I mean is now we're recruiting against mid major programs. Is that the state of the program? I want to see him go after top recruits that can compete in the BE. Otherwise, Buzz is doomed to fail. 

Unfortunately, he apparently has Crean advising him. What Williams needs to understand is that Crean couldn't land big names because of his personality. If Williams is as likable as we're being led to believe, he should be able to get much better guys than Crean, who had two good recruiting classes in 9 years.

[4everwarriors]

Unfortunately, he apparently has Crean advising him. What Williams needs to understand is that Crean couldn't land big names because of his personality. If Williams is as likable as we're being led to believe, he should be able to get much better guys than Crean, who had two good recruiting classes in 9 years.

Funny you should say that. Just yesterday it was confirmed to me, by a very credible source, that Jerry Smith crossed MU off his list because "Crean turned him off." Some here liked to believe Smith chose UL because he was unlikely to get playing time. Nothing could be further from the truth.

[MR.HAYWARD]

Smith is rated #62 in the country, when is the last time Crean landed a guy that highly rated at MU?  Not saying Williams has landed the guy but to say he is going after low level guys is just another one of your comment to cut down Williams.  Additionally anyone that knows anything about  recruiting would not make such a comment about who else is recruitng a kid at such an early point.  Small schools by nature need to get out on more kids early to set an impression they also offer early to attempt to land a commitment.  the higher ranked biger schools have more time to watch kids and determine which ones have taken it to the next level, they can always offer after the smaller schools that have already offered becuase those kids will always wait for bigger offers and the bigger schools know that.  The only time big time schools offer is when the kid is an absolute cannot miss stud.  If these so called nobody players play well everyone will offer, if they do not we wont either.

[bma725]

So far there is little evidence Buzz can go toe to toe with coaches at big time programs for the same recruits. Then again, maybe our departed is "advising" him on who to target.

So far there is also little evidence that he can't go toe to toe with them either.  

In a month he has basically started from scratch and put MU on the map with a lot of top prospects that weren't even looking at the school when Crean was here.  MU has made the list of top 25 Center Prospect Shawn Kemp Jr. a guy they weren't involved with at all a month ago.  Just at the point guard position alone, MU is now on the list of 6 different top 100 players, only one of whom was being looked at prior to the coaching change.  

His involvement with David Brown doesn't show that he can't compete with the big boys, in fact in the opinion of a lot of people that have watched Brown recently, it shows that he can spot great talent before it blows up. If the Bullseye Brother love Brown and expect him to shoot up the rankings as the summer goes on, you can bet that he is a damn good player. Buzz is just getting in early.

[Henry Sugar]

I am confident that Buzz will bring a recruiting class at least as good as any of the classes that Crean brought in during his nine years, and possibly better.

One could make an argument that Erik Williams will end up being rated higher than any of the Crean recruits, and that's a nice place to start.

[THEGYMBAR]

Erik Williams is a great foundation recruit. Getting guys like him make recruiting guys like Wilson and Maymon easier. If these three all sign and come than Buzz gets an "A" for 1st recruiting class.

[1990Warrior]

I think it is also promising that the Wiki 2009 PG is now populated with 3 other 4 star PGs besides Lacy.  Considering that Buzz got into the game late (obviously not his fault), I feel a little better than the Lacy or bust situation I thought we were in at PG.

Also - nice work by whoever updated the Wiki!

[Pakuni]

So far there is little evidence Buzz can go toe to toe with coaches at big time programs for the same recruits. Then again, maybe our departed is "advising" him on who to target.

I'm pretty sure you can say that about any MU coaching candidate.
That said, Buzz was helped land top 10/15 player DeAndre Jordan for A&M.
Jordan also had offers from Kansas, Florida, Texas, LSU and Indiana.

[Pakuni]

Funny you should say that. Just yesterday it was confirmed to me, by a very credible source, that Jerry Smith crossed MU off his list because "Crean turned him off." Some here liked to believe Smith chose UL because he was unlikely to get playing time. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Smith may or may not have been turned off by Crean.
But to saying his unlikeliness to get playing time is "nothing further from the truth" is just plain silly. Smith would be getting Cubillan's minutes behind DJ and McNeal.

[MR.HAYWARD]

Actually Eric Williams ranking will probably drop due to the fact that he is still rehabbing a broken ankle and is not getting the notoriety.  No Matter he is a fine fine player and more higly rated than anyone Crean signed in his last 3 years at MU.  What does that say about Buzz...well let's see if you are 4evercomplaining then it says crean sucked and you should do better, but it probably still isnt good enough and when Buzz fails remeber he was the first one to say he would....WoW 4 ever can we hang out?  you seem real cool!

[Pakuni]

I wouldn't make much right now of where Brown is ranked or who's offered him so far.
He's a small-school kid from the middle of nowhere who really blew up this past season and only now is starting to garner much attention. The "gurus" that have seen him play, i.e. the Bullseye Brothers, Brian Stinnette of Chicago Hoops, think very highly of him. Stinnette rates him the fifth best 2009 player in Illinois, ahead of guys like Darius Smith, Chris Colvin and Joseph Bertand. Also, reports are he's been offered by Wake Forest, Oklahoma State and DePaul.

[nola03]

In a month he has basically started from scratch and put MU on the map with a lot of top prospects that weren't even looking at the school when Crean was here.  

While that is true, the opposite is also true: namely, that a lot of top prospects that Crean was recruiting are no longer truly interested.

This would have happened with any coach. What remains to be seen, and what he will judged on, is what kind of talent he actually lands as a commitment rather then what kind of talent he can talk with on his Swatch phone.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Smith is rated #62 in the country, when is the last time Crean landed a guy that highly rated at MU? 

Uhm, about 5 months ago...TT, NW and Erik Williams. Like it or not, the head coach is the one that gets credit for landing recruits.  It's not like when Ben Howland lands Jrue Holliday they say Howland didn't add the kid but the assistant did, that's not how it works.  If Crean was still at MU, EW still comes to MU and Crean would be given credit for that recruit.

So to answer your question, depending on the rating used, here are the most recent players that Crean landed around #62 (again, depends on the rating system used ESPN, Scout, Rivals, PrepStar, Hoopscoop, etc).  The rankings below are their HIGHEST rankings by an agency/firm, not an RSCI aggregate total.  But Crean has certainly landed players of that calibre, and higher.

Tyshawn Taylor #77
Nick Williams #35
Erik Williams #44
Jerel McNeal #36
Dominic James #29
Wes Matthews #40
Trevor Mkbakwe #71

That's just in the last few years...go back further to Diener, Mason, Merritt, etc. to add to the list.

[Henry Sugar]

RCSI rankings of players going back to Crean's first class

2008 Class
Nick Williams #95

2007
Trevor Mbakwe #91

2006
Zero

2005
Dominic James #36
Jerel McNeal #57
Wes Matthews #61

2004
Zero

2003
Dameon Mason #71

2002
Steve Novak #57

2001
Travis Diener #40

2002
Scott Merritt #85

[bma725]

So to answer your question, depending on the rating used, here are the most recent players that Crean landed around #62 (again, depends on the rating system used ESPN, Scout, Rivals, PrepStar, Hoopscoop, etc).  The rankings below are their HIGHEST rankings by an agency/firm, not an RSCI aggregate total.  But Crean has certainly landed players of that calibre, and higher.

Tyshawn Taylor #77

Unless they updated them recently and he dropped for some unknown reason, Taylor's highest ranking is higher than that.  He was #56 by HoopScoop prior to the season and I believe went up to #48 during their mid season update.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Unless they updated them recently and he dropped for some unknown reason, Taylor's highest ranking is higher than that.  He was #56 by HoopScoop prior to the season and I believe went up to #48 during their mid season update.

Could be, the highest I could find was #77 currently.

[bma725]

Could be, the highest I could find was #77 currently.

Can't find the current ranking but the updated Recruiting Class Rankings shows that he is at least 70th, because it has him as a 6-Star player which according to Francis is between 41-70 in the class as a whole(meaning HS, Prep and JUCO combined).

http://www.hoopscooponline.com/members/toprecruitingclasses-classof2008.asp

Interestingly, Jimmy Butler is also rated as a 6-Star player, and Fulce is still a 4 Star player according to Francis meaning he's in the 71-100 range

[MR.HAYWARD]

Well then by using the rcsi the last time Crean got a guy thet highly rated was the 3 amigos,  TT nor NW never enrolled so counting them is sort of like counting 2 birds in the bush.  Crean went 2 years before this year without landing a kid as high as Eric Williams yet people aree already complaining about buzz's recruiting?  sheesh.  Buzz has his hands full trying to fix creans mistakes and the void of talent we will have after next year due to Creans screw ups.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Well then by using the rcsi the last time Crean got a guy thet highly rated was the 3 amigos,  TT nor NW never enrolled so counting them is sort of like counting 2 birds in the bush.  Crean went 2 years before this year without landing a kid as high as Eric Williams yet people aree already complaining about buzz's recruiting?  sheesh.  Buzz has his hands full trying to fix creans mistakes and the void of talent we will have after next year due to Creans screw ups.

Well then you should compare apples to apples....since you used an individual ranking for Williams, I used individual rankings for the other guys that Crean signed....apples to apples.  Let's see what Williams RSCI ranking is at the end of the year.

Not counting TT or NW is a bit odd, since if Crean was still here they would both be here as well.  You see, those guys didn't want to play for MU without Crean.  Buzz should have an easier time, he has playing time to offer..let's see how he does.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Actually Eric Williams ranking will probably drop due to the fact that he is still rehabbing a broken ankle and is not getting the notoriety.  No Matter he is a fine fine player and more higly rated than anyone Crean signed in his last 3 years at MU.  What does that say about Buzz...well let's see if you are 4evercomplaining then it says crean sucked and you should do better, but it probably still isnt good enough and when Buzz fails remeber he was the first one to say he would....WoW 4 ever can we hang out?  you seem real cool!

He'll be on stage at the Sugar Shack in Lake Genevathis weekend performing for the ladies.   

[Pakuni]

He'll be on stage at the Sugar Shack in Lake Genevathis weekend performing for the ladies.   

 
Which one is he?

[MR.HAYWARD]

Not counting TT or NW is a bit odd, since if Crean was still here they would both be here as well.

Pure speculation...no different than saying all the negative speculation about Buzz. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Not counting TT or NW is a bit odd, since if Crean was still here they would both be here as well.

Pure speculation...no different than saying all the negative speculation about Buzz. 

It's speculation to say if Crean was at MU TT and NW would be at MU?  How is that speculation?  They were bound by a LOI that Crean would not have let them out of if there was no coaching change, of course they would be at MU.  No speculation at all.

[77ncaachamps]

Any thoughts or more news about Brown?

This seems like the debate of recruits and their rankings belong in a separate thread.