Losing Formula: Kneejerk Substituting (Wojo's forte)

[Floorslapper]

Then why do you keep bringing it up???

I explained that in the post you quoted. (Because when volleyball players like Wade act as if their takes are 100% Gospel and spot on), there is a slight credibility issue. 

When you haven't actually played basketball at just the high school level, it is impossible to understand what it is like as a player to get yanked in and out of a game, yanked for mistake, not having a consistent role, not knowing from one game to the next how much/little you'll play.  (I lived that life was a junior in HS.  We got a new coach my senior year, and it was night and day difference...and yes..All Conference - albeit at a Division 2 school that lost to eventual State Champion in Sectional Semi-Final)

So, when guys like Wade want to belittle the point of getting into a flow, they don't speak from experience.

Hell, I just grabbed the post for Blue Man group that quoted Juan Anderson as saying as much..

[GGGG]

So it does sound like you actually do "give a sh$t if posters here played basketball or not."

(Hint:  It really doesn't matter if you played HS basketball or not.  It gives you too many biases considering the HS game is very much different than the college game.)

[moomoo]

I explained that in the post you quoted. (Because when volleyball players like Wade act as if their takes are 100% Gospel and spot on), there is a slight credibility issue. 

When you haven't actually played basketball at just the high school level, it is impossible to understand what it is like as a player to get yanked in and out of a game, yanked for mistake, not having a consistent role, not knowing from one game to the next how much/little you'll play.  (I lived that life was a junior in HS.  We got a new coach my senior year, and it was night and day difference...and yes..All Conference - albeit at a Division 2 school that lost to eventual State Champion in Sectional Semi-Final)

So, when guys like Wade want to belittle the point of getting into a flow, they don't speak from experience.

Hell, I just grabbed the post for Blue Man group that quoted Juan Anderson as saying as much..

One who slaps floors,

Instead of slapping the floor, please slap that good looking fellow in the mirror.

Perhaps the violent trauma to his visage will awaken him enough to realize that people can understand flow and consistency without having played at your (incredibly high) high school level.

Thanks

Moomoo

[Floorslapper]

So it does sound like you actually do "give a sh$t if posters here played basketball or not."

(Hint:  It really doesn't matter if you played HS basketball or not.)

No.  Just the handful of PROLIFIC posters here who act as if Wojo is above reproach.  The rich irony of course, is that they are using Wojo's playing days at Duke as justification for him knowing what he is doing.

[Floorslapper]

One who slaps floors,

Instead of slapping the floor, please slap that good looking fellow in the mirror.

Perhaps the violent trauma to his visage will awaken him enough to realize that people can understand flow and consistency without having played at your (incredibly high) high school level.

Thanks

Moomoo

Totally agree.  Most reasonable and logical people would understand this. Sadly we have a handful of posters here who really struggle with the concept. 

[GGGG]

No.  Just the handful of PROLIFIC posters here who act as if Wojo is above reproach.  The rich irony of course, is that they are using Wojo's playing days at Duke as justification for him knowing what he is doing.

Nobody believes that Wojo is above reproach. 

[real chili 83]

In before the lock, and Ners getting another timeout.

[tower912]

Wojo isn't above reproach.   

[Loose Cannon]

The key to Joseph today was that he relaxed and let the game come to him.  He was awful his first couple outings because he was clearly trying too hard.  And when Markus slid to the #2 he relaxed too.  We're so much better when those guys are in their natural positions and letting it flow.

Plus Tax.

[Floorslapper]

In before the lock, and Ners getting another timeout.

Pretty sure I've not broken any Scoop rules here dude.  Sorry you take offense to my posts, and me being a critic of Wojo.

[wadesworld]

I explained that in the post you quoted. (Because when volleyball players like Wade act as if their takes are 100% Gospel and spot on), there is a slight credibility issue. 

When you haven't actually played basketball at just the high school level, it is impossible to understand what it is like as a player to get yanked in and out of a game, yanked for mistake, not having a consistent role, not knowing from one game to the next how much/little you'll play.  (I lived that life was a junior in HS.  We got a new coach my senior year, and it was night and day difference...and yes..All Conference - albeit at a Division 2 school that lost to eventual State Champion in Sectional Semi-Final)

So, when guys like Wade want to belittle the point of getting into a flow, they don't speak from experience.

Hell, I just grabbed the post for Blue Man group that quoted Juan Anderson as saying as much..

You do realize you can play more than one sport in high school right?

Also, you realize that at a minimum there will be a stoppage every 4 minutes in college basketball, right?  So crying that a player can't get into the flow of a game when he's being yanked every 4 minutes is hilarious, because whether he's getting yanked every 4 minutes or he's going to the bench for a 2 minute TV timeout every 4 minutes, his "flow" is being "ruined" every 4 minutes.  So according to your logic, it's impossible for any college basketball player to ever get into a flow.

I'm not using Wojo's experience to say he's above reproach.  I'm using your exact logic for claiming that you are above reproach to show that if you are above reproach, then Wojo is above being above reproach.  It's hilarious that you realize how ridiculous these claims are...because that's what it's meant to be!  Ridiculous!  You can see they're ridiculous claims...yet you fail to realize they're the exact claims you're making about yourself lol.

Crying about Wojo not knowing how to ride the hot hand is hysterical.  He's just had one of the best offenses in the country the last 2 years.  With 0 surefire pros, no less.

[Floorslapper]

Nobody believes that Wojo is above reproach.

Wojo isn't above reproach.   

You two have improved your objectivity over the past year.  Yet there definitely are many cases where threads such as the "What If" thread get created and some try to associate Wojo with Jay Wright.  Wades still struggles. 

[wadesworld]

You two have improved your objectivity over the past year.  Yet there definitely are many cases where threads such as the "What If" thread get created and some try to associate Wojo with Jay Wright.  Wades still struggles.

Or Wades is just pointing to the ridiculousness of the argument, which you continue to struggle to realize.  Glad you realize it is a ridiculous argument, though.  Next step is to realize the ridiculous arguments are the exact ones you are making.  Maybe the next time you get banned and returned with a new nickname you'll catch on.  I'm not holding my breath though.

[tower912]

Yes/no, the offense has been among the best the last few years?
Yes/no, MU has held three cupcakes to worse than 32% shooting and an average of 55 puts a game?

Yep, Rowsey was important to the offense.  He also was a primary factor in the abysmal defense.

A coach gets criticized for anything that doesn't work.   Rotations are like bullpens.  One batter or minute to long, criticism.  Pull them too soon and it doesn't work, meltdown.   Let somebody play though two early fouls and they pick up their third, Hiroshima.   Leave them on the bench until the second half and the other team builds a lead, Nagasaki.

The team had no flow for 28 minutes.  A group finally found their groove and Wojo rode them.   Something to be celebrated.  He kept shuffling players in and out when there wasn't a flow.  THAT IS WHAT A COACH IS SUPPOSED TO DO.  If the team isn't playing well, keep shuffling until a line up clicks.   

[Floorslapper]

You do realize you can play more than one sport in high school right?

Also, you realize that at a minimum there will be a stoppage every 4 minutes in college basketball, right?  So crying that a player can't get into the flow of a game when he's being yanked every 4 minutes is hilarious, because whether he's getting yanked every 4 minutes or he's going to the bench for a 2 minute TV timeout every 4 minutes, his "flow" is being "ruined" every 4 minutes.  So according to your logic, it's impossible for any college basketball player to ever get into a flow.

I'm not using Wojo's experience to say he's above reproach.  I'm using your exact logic for claiming that you are above reproach to show that if you are above reproach, then Wojo is above being above reproach.  It's hilarious that you realize how ridiculous these claims are...because that's what it's meant to be!  Ridiculous!  You can see they're ridiculous claims...yet you fail to realize they're the exact claims you're making about yourself lol.

Crying about Wojo not knowing how to ride the hot hand is hysterical.  He's just had one of the best offenses in the country the last 2 years.  With 0 surefire pros, no less.

What high school's basketball team were you on Wades? 

Your 4-minute time TV timeout argument is just silly.  You don't lose your flow when you've been playing 4-6 minutes (depending on when dead ball occurs after 4) consistently, sit down for a 2 minute timeout, and go back into the game lathered up and loose for another 4-6 minutes.  That aside, Wojo's hook is much quicker than 4 minutes.  2 minutes can be standard fare.

I don't cry about "Wojo riding the hot hand."  I "cry" about him yanking guys in and out of the lineup, and players rarely getting a consistent role.

As for all of the "reproach" stuff, we can leave it as is:

You think Wojo is a good coach/has the goods.  I don't.

 

[Floorslapper]

Yes/no, the offense has been among the best the last few years?
Yes/no, MU has held three cupcakes to worse than 32% shooting and an average of 55 puts a game?

Yep, Rowsey was important to the offense.  He also was a primary factor in the abysmal defense.

A coach gets criticized for anything that doesn't work.   Rotations are like bullpens.  One batter or minute to long, criticism.  Pull them too soon and it doesn't work, meltdown.   Let somebody play though two early fouls and they pick up their third, Hiroshima.   Leave them on the bench until the second half and the other team builds a lead, Nagasaki.

The team had no flow for 28 minutes.  A group finally found their groove and Wojo rode them.   Something to be celebrated.  He kept shuffling players in and out when there wasn't a flow.  THAT IS WHAT A COACH IS SUPPOSED TO DO.  If the team isn't playing well, keep shuffling until a line up clicks.

Yes - Prolific offensively in 2017 and 2018 (yet tragically only NIT worthy)
Yes - We've been prolific defensively this year against the one Division III team we played and the two Sub 300 cupcakes.

Yes, Rowsey was a poor defender.  It didn't help choosing to play Markus and Andrew together.  As we saw against IU, we are still a sieve defensively against high major athletic talent.  Andrew wasn't the exclusive problem.

You saw it going into the IU game - our athleticism is a concern.  Why in Year 5 of the regime, are all of us expecting to get shellacked on a neutral floor to Kansas?

[wadesworld]

What high school's basketball team were you on Wades? 

Your 4-minute time TV timeout argument is just silly.  You don't lose your flow when you've been playing 4-6 minutes (depending on when dead ball occurs after 4) consistently, sit down for a 2 minute timeout, and go back into the game lathered up and loose for another 4-6 minutes.  That aside, Wojo's hook is much quicker than 4 minutes.  2 minutes can be standard fare.

I don't cry about "Wojo riding the hot hand."  I "cry" about him yanking guys in and out of the lineup, and players rarely getting a consistent role.

As for all of the "reproach" stuff, we can leave it as is:

You think Wojo is a good coach/has the goods.  I don't.

You asked me this with one of your old screen names from before one of your numerous bannings, and I believe you PM'd me about it.  You can go back and find my answer...wait, nevermind, you were banned and that username is no longer with us.  RIP.

The answer remains the same, I'm secure enough with myself to not need to recite my athletic accomplishments to a bunch of people I don't know on a Marquette basketball forum, people who don't, and shouldn't, care.  You aren't, which is cool too.  You think what you did on a high school basketball court 20+ years ago against schools with 200 total kids at the school still means something.  I don't.  To each their own.

I could be someone who's never shot a basketball in his life and it doesn't make my opinion any less relevant on MUScoop than it makes yours.

But go win another dunk contest brother, someone so athletically superior to me shouldn't be wasting his time with a peon like me!

[tower912]

Many teams get beat up by really good teams.    Kentucky lost by how much to Duke?    How big was MSU down to Kansas before a late run that made the game seem closer than it was?    My expectation for Kansas game is based more on how good I think Kansas is versus anything 'wrong' with Marquette.   


Watching games that don't involve MU, I find myself noticing that for many highly regarded coaches and teams, after the first few minutes, there is a substitution at nearly every dead ball play stoppage.     *Unless it is one of those games where there is no flow to excessive play stoppages.*

[wadesworld]

By the way, Jamal didn't leave the court from 2:45 left in the first half through 13:38 left in the second half.  What are we even crying about here?  Asking as a guy with no experience in getting "lathered up" on a basketball court, how long does it take to get "lathered up," Mr. Ners, if Jamal is being unfairly subbed out by Wojo?

We had 3 guys play 35+ minutes and we're crying about Wojo not giving kids enough consecutive minutes to get "lathered up and loose."

Sheesh.

[Floorslapper]

You asked me this with one of your old screen names from before one of your numerous bannings, and I believe you PM'd me about it.  You can go back and find my answer...wait, nevermind, you were banned and that username is no longer with us.  RIP.

The answer remains the same, I'm secure enough with myself to not need to recite my athletic accomplishments to a bunch of people I don't know on a Marquette basketball forum, people who don't, and shouldn't, care.  You aren't, which is cool too.  You think what you did on a high school basketball court 20+ years ago against schools with 200 total kids at the school still means something.  I don't.  To each their own.

I could be someone who's never shot a basketball in his life and it doesn't make my opinion any less relevant on MUScoop than it makes yours.

But go win another dunk contest brother, someone so athletically superior to me shouldn't be wasting his time with a peon like me!

To set the record straight:

1) That's odd.  I never got an answer or PM from you. You wouldn't lie about something so silly, would you? 

2)  Regarding my "accomplishments."  A few years back posters asked what they were.  I responded.  You (and some others) chose to belittle them.  That's your prerogative.  As for reciting my "accomplishments," here?  I don't.  You bring them up (albeit it inaccurately - my school had 750.)   We played SPASH annually - nobody quite as good as the Hauser's there back in the 90s - but I get your rationale for the diss. (Teams from upstate could never be any good, right?)

P.S. - The guy who says he's secure enough with himself?  He rarely is.

PSS - If I end up being "wrong' about Wojo, I'll admit it, and you and the other members of the dwindling Wojo Fanboy Club will have the last laugh.

[wadesworld]

To set the record straight:

1) That's odd.  I never got an answer or PM from you. You wouldn't lie about something so silly, would you? 

2)  Regarding my "accomplishments."  A few years back posters asked what they were.  I responded.  You (and some others) chose to belittle them.  That's your prerogative.  As for reciting my "accomplishments," here?  I don't.  You bring them up (albeit it inaccurately - my school had 750.)   We played SPASH annually - nobody quite as good as the Hauser's there back in the 90s - but I get your rationale for the diss. (Teams from upstate could never be any good, right?)

P.S. - The guy who says he's secure enough with himself?  He rarely is.

PSS - If I end up being "wrong' about Wojo, I'll admit it, and you and the other members of the dwindling Wojo Fanboy Club will have the last laugh.

I definitely sent you one and you definitely responded. But fair enough. We’ll go with you being the only poster ever to have played basketball and the rest of us being unqualified to comment here.

Go Nimrods!

[WarriorDad]

I explained that in the post you quoted. (Because when volleyball players like Wade act as if their takes are 100% Gospel and spot on), there is a slight credibility issue. 

Let me see if I have this straight.  You have a keen insight because you played high school ball?  Didn't Wojo play high school ball?  And college ball?  And pro ball overseas?  And coach college and our international teams?  Doesn't he see our guys play every single day?  Would he not have more insight, than say you would despite playing high school ball?

[Floorslapper]

I definitely sent you one and you definitely responded. But fair enough. We’ll go with you being the only poster ever to have played basketball and the rest of us being unqualified to comment here.

Go Nimrods!

Yea.  Just logged back into the Ners Account.  No PM from you on stating where you played high school basketball.  (Comes as no shock because I know its total B.S.)  You sent me one voicing your disdain for Todd Mayo.  Want me to copy and paste the content of that one here, just to back up what I'm saying?

And to clarify, there are plenty of non-basketball playing posters here that have good insight and good takes on matters.  But, generally you haven't been one of them, since you went all in on Wojo and #trusttheprocess.

[Floorslapper]

Let me see if I have this straight.  You have a keen insight because you played high school ball?  Didn't Wojo play high school ball?  And college ball?  And pro ball overseas?  And coach college and our international teams?  Doesn't he see our guys play every single day?  Would he not have more insight, than say you would despite playing high school ball?

He sure as hell should, yes!  But this is the coach that:

Maxed Derrick Wilson's playing time, while having Matt Carlino, Duane Wilson, and John Dawson as potential options to play guard positions.

Started Sandy Cohen ahead of Burton to start the 2015 season, and played the most talented guy on that roster, and returning All Big East Freshman, an average of 16 minutes per game.

Both of which led us to a 4-14 Big East campaign and missed NIT

Started Haanif Cheatham at PG frequently while Traci Carter was on the roster, and Traci played only 58% of available minutes.

We also missed the NIT that year, with a One and Done talent.

And now this year, after bringing in a grad transfer that is the caretaker/distributor type of PG, we see Markus Howard operating at PG, when nearly everyone could see from the last two seasons, and again early out the gate this year, Markus is without question best off the ball?

**Think the key word you use is "insight."  Wojo knows more than any of us regarding X's and O's of basketball by the sheer volume of his time in the game, around the game, as a player as an assistant, etc.  BUT, that is not translating as to having shown good judgement or good insight into how to manage his roster/personnel.
 

[Galway Eagle]

He sure as hell should, yes!  But this is the coach that:

Maxed Derrick Wilson's playing time, while having Matt Carlino, Duane Wilson, and John Dawson as potential options to play guard positions.

Started Sandy Cohen ahead of Burton to start the 2015 season, and played the most talented guy on that roster, and returning All Big East Freshman, an average of 16 minutes per game.

Both of which led us to a 4-14 Big East campaign and missed NIT

Started Haanif Cheatham at PG frequently while Traci Carter was on the roster, and Traci played only 58% of available minutes.

We also missed the NIT that year, with a One and Done talent.

And now this year, after bringing in a grad transfer that is the caretaker/distributor type of PG, we see Markus Howard operating at PG, when nearly everyone could see from the last two seasons, and again early out the gate this year, Markus is without question best off the ball?

**Think the key word you use is "insight."  Wojo knows more than any of us regarding X's and O's of basketball by the sheer volume of his time in the game, around the game, as a player as an assistant, etc.  BUT, that is not translating as to having shown good judgement or good insight into how to manage his roster/personnel.

I don't get the reference that Duane was a solid PG option. He was as prone to chucking bad shots as Markus