Moving your Wojo Needle

[Badgerhater]

Strong conference showing—top 3.  Tournaments are a crapshoot but a great big east season without a late season collapse is the mark of a well-coached team.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Is moving a "Wojo Needle" akin to a "Buzz Woody" (to quote Wee Willie)?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I guess I don’t get this...are you saying Cain and Theo aren’t good, or just inexperienced?

Theo has appeared in 108 career games, starting 74.

Cain has appeared in 104 games, starting 16.  He averaged 17mpg as a freshman and 18mpg last year.  He has been a rotation guy for two of his three seasons at Marquette.

Koby, our fifth year senior, was a starter for two years at Utah State.  He’s played in 102 career games and started 101.

We are not an inexperienced team, and I actually think we have quite a bit of talent.  And if it’s the talent that’s lacking, well, that’s on Wojo.

I'm saying that being a 4th or 5th year senior doesn't mean anything.

We have exactly one guy on the roster who's averaged more than 21 minutes a game in a season (unless you count Jose's minutes at Gardner-Webb). Age helps. Experience helps. Age with experience matters the most.

An unbiased evaluator of our team's roster would say we are somewhere between a bubble team who makes the tourney and a team that just makes the NIT. If we finish towards the top end of that range, I think that means Wojo was able to get the most out of his roster and should be given a modest extension. If we finish towards the back of that, it means he got the minimum out of his roster and should be on the chopping block. If we finish above or below that range, I think he either needs a significant extension or to be fired out of a cannon. Knowing Wojo, he'll finish squarely in the middle leaving us in no-man's land again.

I'm fine with being in this range a season after graduating a consensus All-American and our second best player. Most teams that graduate that much talent end up in this range the following year. I know you don't like talk about "down years" but any unbiased observer could have told you that MU was heading into a down year this season. If a down year means an NCAAT appearance, we're on the right track.

[Shooter McGavin]

First five is a guy who's played 25 collegiate games, a guy who's in his second year with the program, a guy who's never been a regular starter, a rookie, and a foul prone big.

Off the bench is a rookie, a sophomore PG, and a walking injury.

What kind of results are you expecting with "this team"?

Your description describes many NCAA tournament teams.  Wojo has talent on this team.  Some of the best talent may be young but here is a good mix of veterans.  Finishing under .500 in a down Big East year where we are only predicted to get four teams in the tournament as of now would be a negative in my opinion.  More of the same mediocrity.  I want to see evidence that Wojo can coach this team up.  I have not seen that for previous teams.  I want evidence that he is getting better as a coach.  An under .500 record with our talent would not convince me he is the right guy.

I am a projo right now. I want this to work because he runs the program with class and I like his recruiting to date.  But now I want evidence he can coach.  If he can’t get this team to a 500 conference record and an NCAA bid it will be a mark in the negative column for me with several other negatives already in it. 

I understand why someone would feel otherwise. 

[Spotcheck Billy]

Your description describes many NCAA tournament teams.  Wojo has talent on this team.  Some of the best talent may be young but here is a good mix of veterans.  Finishing under .500 in a down Big East year where we are only predicted to get four teams in the tournament as of now would be a negative in my opinion.  More of the same mediocrity.  I want to see evidence that Wojo can coach this team up.  I have not seen that for previous teams.  I want evidence that he is getting better as a coach.  An under .500 record with our talent would not convince me he is the right guy.

I am a projo right now. I want this to work because he runs the program with class and I like his recruiting to date.  But now I want evidence he can coach.  If he can’t get this team to a 500 conference record and an NCAA bid it will be a mark in the negative column for me with several other negatives already in it. 

I understand why someone would feel otherwise. 

I wonder about the rankings, without much non-conference play are the rankings justified with so many teams from just the power conferences?

Big Ten   10
ACC   9
SEC   6
Big 12   6
Big East   5
Pac-12   4
American   2
Mountain West   2
Atlantic 10   2

[Lennys Tap]

First five is a guy who's played 25 collegiate games, a guy who's in his second year with the program, a guy who's never been a regular starter, a rookie, and a foul prone big.

Off the bench is a rookie, a sophomore PG, and a walking injury.

What kind of results are you expecting with "this team"?

Gee, Lanche, the team you describe sounds awful. Who are they and who put them together?

[mu_hilltopper]

I'd add an option .. "3 years of top 5 BE finishes, plus 3 NCAA appearances, 2 years with at least 1 NCAAT win" will move my needle on Wojo.  Yeah, my bar is high after 7 years of failure.

At this point, one season with some success at the end is .. just a fluke.

I don't think that (3 seasons) will happen, and I don't want to wait 3 years for it to not happen to realize a wasted decade of MUBB .. which is where it's heading.

[Billy Hoyle]

A sub .500 conference record with this team would turn me into a nojo (the needle would go from middle toward a solid negative direction).

I picked bottom three finish. There is no way this roster should finish behind Gtown, Butler, DePaul, or St. John’s. We should be ahead of PC too.

Now, unless Nate Oats openly says he wants the job, anything else than the above would be enough for me to keep Wojo.

[Golden Avalanche]

Your description describes many NCAA tournament teams.  Wojo has talent on this team.  Some of the best talent may be young but here is a good mix of veterans.  Finishing under .500 in a down Big East year where we are only predicted to get four teams in the tournament as of now would be a negative in my opinion.  More of the same mediocrity.  I want to see evidence that Wojo can coach this team up.  I have not seen that for previous teams.  I want evidence that he is getting better as a coach.  An under .500 record with our talent would not convince me he is the right guy.

I am a projo right now. I want this to work because he runs the program with class and I like his recruiting to date.  But now I want evidence he can coach.  If he can’t get this team to a 500 conference record and an NCAA bid it will be a mark in the negative column for me with several other negatives already in it. 

I understand why someone would feel otherwise.

Don't agree with "many" Tournament teams having this makeup but it's clear a bubble team could have this makeup.

I asked on results because most everyone writes in generalities about Wojo and not the actual team. The way this squad is constructed screamed eight to 11 wins this season and nothing to this point has changed that outlook.

[Golden Avalanche]

Gee, Lanche, the team you describe sounds awful. Who are they and who put them together?

I don't think that team sounds awful.

[NCMUFan]

Some needles may have moved tonight.

[Judge Smails]

Some needles may have moved tonight.

Needle moved for me. In the Nojo camp now.

[1SE]

It's really hard to see how anyone can still think this is the guy for the long term.

At this point the only real conversations are what is the strategy to get him gone and who can we bring in.

Scholl also needs the ax for getting us into a contract that is too expensive to get out of at the end of this year.

I really thought we had turned the corner as of February 23rd 2018-2019. But, other than pulling lighting out of the hat a few odd times, the program has been a dumpster fire since that date.

Since then

11-19 against conference foes (.366 win pct)
25-24 overall

With rosters entirely of his own making. With a 1st team All-American for the bulk of those games.

Brutal.

[vogue65]

No.
The team looked tired, they had tired legs.
A lot of standing around and watching.
Also some obvious freshman mistakes which will be corrected.
They are a work in progress.
The best is yet to come.
Can the double teaming be corrected in game?
Finding the open man needs to be worked on.
It is two steps forward, one step back.

[dgies9156]

Some needles may have moved tonight.

Mine did. Went from 3/4 in the Projo camp to about 7/8ths in the Nojo camp.

I fear he has lost this team.

[vogue65]

I remember earlier this year when this team could not handle the press, it has been corrected.
I remember when this tean had problems inbounding the ball, it has been corrected.
Now we have freshman making freshman mistakes, a few defensive bad habits and tired legs.
These and a few other shortcomings will be corrected.
The best is yet to come.
There will be time to change coaches, now is not the time.

BTW, how is Buzz doing with all his Texas connections and metric management?    Mr. analytics has been struggling for 7 years.  Perhaps its not in the numbers after all. 

[tower912]

Everyone tries to portray me as a ProJo.   Honestly, my needle on Wojo is where it has always been.     Looking back on my posts from when he was hired, I expressed concern that he would ever grow out of his Duke roots, as winning at MU and in the Big East is different.    I suspended my skepticism as it turned out he landed a number of good recruits.    I said that I wasn't thrilled, but I could see the foundation he was building, could see the road map.     Those were the early years.   
   I have never thought he was a great game coach.    I have compared him multiple times to Crean without Wade and I do not consider that a compliment.    Well, he is also Crean without the used car salesman vibe, which is a point in Wojo's favor.  I recently started a thread about the hole in Wojo's recruiting, the lack of switchables, and that was exposed again last night.    Old Herm had a phrase in recruiting, 'pogo sticks'.    MU doesn't have them.   
   I broke with Wojo when the letter story came out.   If it was true, then he made the worst decision of his tenure by allowing those two to stay on his team.   And if it were true, it was better that they left.   But, because he doesn't recruit the way Buzz did, he didn't have back up plans and couldn't just dial up and get a couple of JUCO's.   
  So, I look back at my initial concerns and realize that I was probably right then.    He really hasn't grown past the Duke roots.   But, and this is the big one, it really doesn't matter what I think.    I try to see the big picture, particularly from the university's standpoint.    Wanting a clean program.   Wanting to stay off the front pages for negative reasons.    In a financial situation that would make it difficult to buy him out.      I get it all.    And I firmly believe that Wojo is not going anywhere anytime soon.   

But that doesn't mean I think he is a great coach.   I never have.    I just choose to not rake him over the coals for the Kennedy assassination.     

[The Big East]

Killings for Head Coach

[willie warrior]

Everyone tries to portray me as a ProJo.   Honestly, my needle on Wojo is where it has always been.     Looking back on my posts from when he was hired, I expressed concern that he would ever grow out of his Duke roots, as winning at MU and in the Big East is different.    I suspended my skepticism as it turned out he landed a number of good recruits.    I said that I wasn't thrilled, but I could see the foundation he was building, could see the road map.     Those were the early years.   
   I have never thought he was a great game coach.    I have compared him multiple times to Crean without Wade and I do not consider that a compliment.    Well, he is also Crean without the used car salesman vibe, which is a point in Wojo's favor.  I recently started a thread about the hole in Wojo's recruiting, the lack of switchables, and that was exposed again last night.    Old Herm had a phrase in recruiting, 'pogo sticks'.    MU doesn't have them.   
   I broke with Wojo when the letter story came out.   If it was true, then he made the worst decision of his tenure by allowing those two to stay on his team.   And if it were true, it was better that they left.   But, because he doesn't recruit the way Buzz did, he didn't have back up plans and couldn't just dial up and get a couple of JUCO's.   
  So, I look back at my initial concerns and realize that I was probably right then.    He really hasn't grown past the Duke roots.   But, and this is the big one, it really doesn't matter what I think.    I try to see the big picture, particularly from the university's standpoint.    Wanting a clean program.   Wanting to stay off the front pages for negative reasons.    In a financial situation that would make it difficult to buy him out.      I get it all.    And I firmly believe that Wojo is not going anywhere anytime soon.   

But that doesn't mean I think he is a great coach.   I never have.    I just choose to not rake him over the coals for the Kennedy assassination.     

Spoken like a true Wojo homer

[tower912]

Thanks for the laugh, Willie.

[Silent Verbal]

Killings for Head Coach

The only way I could see this happening is if they got rid of Wojo mid-season and gave Killings the rest of the year to see if he could right the ship, sort of like a Greg Gard situation.  Short of that, I say burn it all to the ground and start from scratch before it’s too late.

[willie warrior]

The only way I could see this happening is if they got rid of Wojo mid-season and gave Killings the rest of the year to see if he could right the ship, sort of like a Greg Gard situation.  Short of that, I say burn it all to the ground and start from scratch before it’s too late.

Wondering if it is not already too late.

[GoldenWarrior11]

What is the most interesting thought to me long-term about the program is that Bill Scholl did not hire Wojo.  Scholl was hired after Wojo was in 2014.  It was Cords and the BOT that oversaw the hiring of Wojo.  I'd be curious what a true head coaching search under Scholl would look like, if it ever came to be.  He did hire James Whitford at Ball State, which is uninspiring to say the least, but Ball State is not Marquette.  Scholl's other hires at Marquette have been very strong IMO, especially Carolyn Kieger and Megan Duffy for the women's side. 

[WarriorFan]

I doubt Doc will last the full year in Philly, especially if they trade for Harden.  As soon as Doc tries to hold Harden accountable for anything, he'll be out.  Which means he'd be available. His availability would move my Wojo needle to "don't let the door hit you on the way out".

[WarriorPride68]

Now, unless Nate Oats openly says he wants the job, anything else than the above would be enough for me to keep Wojo.

What would the temperature be on Stan Johnson being in play, whether after this year or in a couple, ala what Wisconsin football did with Chryst. Let him leave to get feet wet as HC and come back next opportunity?