MU Coaching Candidates

[brewcity77]

If we're going to use Howard's 2019 injury as an excuse for the collapse (an injury where he still played max minutes with max usage) and also say that 2017 was a good year for Wojo, it needs to be said that in 2017 Marquette played Creighton and Xavier *after* Maurice Watson and Edmond Sumner got hurt, and went 4-0 against those teams.  Both X and Creighton were really good that year, and had it not been for those injuries, we may well have gone 1-3 or 0-4 against those teams and been in the NIT.  Wojo got really lucky that year.  Sure, Markus was injured to end 2019 when Wojo had his best squad (even though Markus still played max minutes with max usage), but Wojo's had some great good fortune at Marquette, too.

You missed my point, or maybe I didn't make it clearly enough. I'm simply making the case of why the decision makers at Marquette could justify to themselves that this is fine and Wojo is good enough.

I'm all in on replacing him ASAP and feel the points you raise are valid ones that add to my own causes for concern, but from an administrative perspective, I understand how they could justify keeping him on even though I personally think it would be a mistake.

And from a results perspective, if he was performing at a DePaul/Georgetown level, I think this would be easier, but he's clearly above that, even if it's not as high as the fans desire.

[Silent Verbal]

You missed my point, or maybe I didn't make it clearly enough. I'm simply making the case of why the decision makers at Marquette could justify to themselves that this is fine and Wojo is good enough.

I'm all in on replacing him ASAP and feel the points you raise are valid ones that add to my own causes for concern, but from an administrative perspective, I understand how they could justify keeping him on even though I personally think it would be a mistake.

And from a results perspective, if he was performing at a DePaul/Georgetown level, I think this would be easier, but he's clearly above that, even if it's not as high as the fans desire.

No, I agree with pretty much everything you said.  If the results had been DePaul/Georgetown level (which is where Deane was taking us by his fifth year), Wojo would've been shown the door.  Until the last two games, he'd done just enough to skate by, but I think the loss to DePaul, followed by Providence, might be the beginning of a tipping point.

[Jables1604]

If we are going to have scoopers, I nominate $5 pitcher.

I agree, Tower. Clearly 5DollarBitcher has the necessary answers.

[Jables1604]

I agree, Tower. Clearly 5DollarBitcher has the necessary answers.

Pitcher*

Sorry. Autocorrect.

[Spaniel with a Short Tail]

[Johnny B]

Pitcher*

Sorry. Autocorrect.

it was funny the first ten times...

[Silent Verbal]

it was funny the first ten times...

Agreed.  How can someone have such a minimal understanding of comedy that they would just keep repeating the same joke over and over again?  Not even any variations, just the same damn thing over and over.  Well, hey, some people are just dullards I suppose.

[Jables1604]

Agreed.  How can someone have such a minimal understanding of comedy that they would just keep repeating the same joke over and over again?  Not even any variations, just the same damn thing over and over.  Well, hey, some people are just dullards I suppose.

Apparently me and 4ever...

[Spaniel with a Short Tail]

[DFW HOYA]

And from a results perspective, if he was performing at a DePaul/Georgetown level, I think this would be easier, but he's clearly above that, even if it's not as high as the fans desire.

So that's the bar now...

[Viper]

Wojo is simply a very bad coach. Decent recruiter, sure, but coach? Awful. Not to mention Marquette does a good job of recruiting itself with the new arena, NBA alum, excellent facilities, etc.
which players have come to MU based on facilities and nba alum? I thought Fiserv would help recruiting, but I’m not sure it’s necessarily made a significant difference.
Wojo Sucks. FIRE WOJO

[The Lens]

I regularly text with 16 MU fans, about 6 different text threads.  Throughout the years we’ve all differed on our love of TC or Buzz.  It’s a wide range of opinions.  Wes vs Jerel, Markus vs Sam, TC vs modern fashion etc. 

Everyone wants Wojo gone now. And most of these guys are STHs or 5 pack holders.  I’ve never experienced so much common thought on MU. 

If he’s back for year 8 and we don’t make a run...it will be UGLY at the FF. 

[MU82]

I regularly text with 16 MU fans, about 6 different text threads.  Throughout the years we’ve all differed on our love of TC or Buzz.  It’s a wide range of opinions.  Wes vs Jerel, Markus vs Sam, TC can modern fashion etc. 

Everyone want Wojo gone now. And most of these guys are STHs or 5 pack holders.  I’ve never experienced so much common thought on MU. 

If he’s back for year 8 and we don’t make a run...it will be UGLY at the FF.

What will y'all do? Will all of you not renew your ST?

[Dr. Blackheart]

But you don't know this. First off meet Matheus Pereira (https://gomarquette.com/sports/mens-soccer/roster/matheus-pereira/5255) Proud graduate of Marshalltown Community College and member of the men's soccer team. I honestly haven't checked the roster for other programs over the past 7ish years but I knew this one off the top of my head. He's been brought up here before but I assume you missed it the last time this discussion was had.

Second, Niko Medved doesn't have any JUCOs on his team. Not a one. In fact, he's never recruited a JUCO to Colorado State. I don't know what he did in his one year at Drake or his previous years at Furman but unless you know something else about him there was no reason to include him here.

Devries does have three jucos on his team. I have no idea what their academic situation is, but if they could graduate before their eligibility ran out, they would be welcome at MU.

Moreover, Marquette wouldn't disqualify a coach for recruiting a JUCO in the past. There might be a concern that if all of a coach's success was based on getting the best JUCOs that it might not translate to the high major level given the low number of high major ready JUCOs (which was my concern with Forbes at Wake) but neither Devries or Medved match that description.

This isn't true. One, Mr. Pereira. Two, Jameel McKay was admitted after the so called Crowder rule was instated. He left without ever playing in a game, but that was because of Buzz not the admin.

There is nothing to admit. Marquette's standard is that it needs to be possible for a player to graduate before their eligibility expires. That's the bar. It's not a high one. And its a standard that many schools have, not just Marquette or ND. It does disproportionally impact JUCOs because many of them major in PE and Marquette doesn't have a comparable program to transfer those credits into and with only 2 years of eligibility left for many of them, graduating is impossible. I know for a fact that Wojo has offered several JUCOs, some who didn't major in PE, some who had three years of eligibility and could catch up, and others who were offered on the condition that they would take a redshirt year. Wojo even had one on campus for an official visit but couldn't seal the deal.

There is no blanket ban on JUCOs like you have repeatedly implied. Whoever told you this gave you bad information. The reality is, the amount of high major ready talent is limited at the JUCO level and many majored in a program that Marquette doesn't have so their credits don't transfer. But there is a population of JUCOs that meet the standard and are high major ready and Wojo is free to recruit those, and has. Some coaches have strong inroads at the JUCO level, Wojo doesn't.

Unless you know something not publicly known about Medved or Devries, there is no reason to think they couldn't be candidates for Wojo's job it it were to open.

I am happy MU now has one JUCO player on a sports team after 10 years. I do see he is from Marshalltown via Brazil. I do hope he gets his first game in. And I do appreciate MU advancing diversity and rediscovering their original mission after a decade. One SA is a good first step.

I won’t relitigate my well worn feelings on this topic again here any more, and I vote with dollars after my discussions with MU. Maybe in a small way I may have been heard. I will say where we disagree is the pool of JUCOs (see Drake, Loyola, Virginia, Kansas in the past few years, links I provided in the past you can look up). CSU has JUCOS and preps all over their sports teams. Billy’s foe, Steve Cottingham, overseas the basketball program. There isn’t just one on ALL sports teams.

As to my main point on Billy’s list, all of those coaches dip into areas Wojo can’t, but past MU coaches did going back to Al. Actions, whether written in policy or not, speak the reality (I have had a stronger term for it). MU admin wants a ND approach. Just like Cuonzo and Ben were bad fits for what they wanted, so would those on Billy’s list, as would Moser and Wardle. We are left with Todd Golden after Wojo. Billy says his good friend isn’t ready yet...so I guess Lovell keeps Wojo but potentially loses the room. I hope Wojo turns it around (and no, it isn’t on Wojo to turn to Jucos...it’s not why he was hired nor is it his network).

[Johnny B]

Agreed.  How can someone have such a minimal understanding of comedy that they would just keep repeating the same joke over and over again?  Not even any variations, just the same damn thing over and over.  Well, hey, some people are just dullards I suppose.

is this freaking sarcasm

[The Lens]

What will y'all do? Will all of you not renew your ST?

The disgust & displeasure is at an all time high.  And there are some serious optimistic ppl in this lot.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I am happy MU now has one JUCO player on a sports team after 10 years. I do see he is from Marshalltown via Brazil. I do hope he gets his first game in. And I do appreciate MU advancing diversity and rediscovering their original mission after a decade. One SA is a good first step.

It hasn't been a decade and Marquette rediscovered their mission when they stopped admitting players that had zero chance of graduating, not the other way around. Marquette has steadily increased diversity at the university  under Lovell. Admitting basketball players who can't graduate has nothing to do with advancing diversity.

I won’t relitigate my well worn feelings on this topic again here any more, and I vote with dollars after my discussions with MU. Maybe in a small way I may have been heard. I will say where we disagree is the pool of JUCOs (see Drake, Loyola, Virginia, Kansas in the past few years, links I provided in the past you can look up).

I have addressed those in the past. Virginia has had ONE juco under Bennett (and he's the last guy in their rotation this season). Kansas has had ONE juco under Self (and he isn't part of their regular rotation despite being the top ranked juco in his class), Loyola and Drake are mid-Majors, plus Loyola only has one JUCO on their roster (and he's a bench player). That's hardly evidence that there's a wealth of high major talent hiding in the JUCO ranks. I never said there was no high major ready JUCOs, just that the pool is small.

CSU has JUCOS and preps all over their sports teams. Billy’s foe, Steve Cottingham, overseas the basketball program. There isn’t just one on ALL sports teams.

So your argument is that any coach that coaches at a university that allows JUCOs would not be welcome at MU...even if the coach has never recruited a JUCO? Is the admin afraid they got cooties?

As to my main point on Billy’s list, all of those coaches dip into areas Wojo can’t, but past MU coaches did going back to Al.

Where are they dipping that Wojo can't? Even if it was true that they couldn't hire Devries because he's recruited a juco before (its not true), where is Medved dipping? He's never recruited a juco to Colorado State.

Just like Cuonzo and Ben were bad fits for what they wanted, so would those on Billy’s list, as would Moser and Wardle.

Cuonzo was a bad fit because he was running from Tennessee rather than to Marquette. Howland falls into the Greg Marshall brand of coaching. What are the issues with Devries, Medved, Moser, and Wardle?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

It hasn't been a decade and Marquette rediscovered their mission when they stopped admitting players that had zero chance of graduating, not the other way around. Marquette has steadily increased diversity at the university  under Lovell. Admitting basketball players who can't graduate has nothing to do with advancing diversity.

Marquette has increased their students of color from 20% to about 25% since Buzz left, but people think they strayed from their original mission because they haven't admitted Jucos into the men's basketball program?   

Not to mention, Wojo has recruited Jucos AND has had them on campus for official visits.

[mu_hilltopper]

I regularly text with 16 MU fans, about 6 different text threads.

Stop stealing page views from MUScoop.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Marquette has increased their students of color from 20% to about 25% since Buzz left, but people think they strayed from their original mission because they haven't admitted Jucos into the men's basketball program?   

Not to mention, Wojo has recruited Jucos AND has had them on campus for official visits.

The US undergraduate population for people of color today is 47.1%. Marquette's is 29%. MU indexes at 61. In your wokeness, if you think that is even a D grade for a faith-based school, then good god.

Back to the topic of potential coaches, I see all sorts of flairs going up around this with a lot of words. The simple fact is, that for a decade not one JUCO player has set foot in The Al, when they have in the past.

Between Larry and Scholl and the current president, we have heard about the raised academic standards. This board thinks our best candidate coaches, who all currently and in the past recruit JUCOS, and see JUCOS, preps and transfers as a quick way to rebuild and balance a program. That's not in line with those standards, written or otherwise, MU had switched to.

Nate Oats, Otz, I mean come on people. Get a clue on how they recruit and their fit to the new MU.

[We R Final Four]

Has the administration said anything regarding Wojo either during this year or in the last off season? There is an assumption on here that the admin absolutely loves him because he’s good enough and runs a clean program.
The admin isn’t going to comment on Wojo after every loss...as is done here.
I guess we will see their position once his contract is due.

[We R Final Four]

I regularly text with 16 MU fans, about 6 different text threads.  Throughout the years we’ve all differed on our love of TC or Buzz.  It’s a wide range of opinions.  Wes vs Jerel, Markus vs Sam, TC can modern fashion etc. 

Everyone want Wojo gone now. And most of these guys are STHs or 5 pack holders.  I’ve never experienced so much common thought on MU. 

If he’s back for year 8 and we don’t make a run...it will be UGLY at the FF.

Similar, but different.
I have several Bucky bball buddies who we text with about each other’s teams.
They don’t even text after losses to DePaul anymore. We are becoming irrelevant even to our haters.

[The Lens]

Stop stealing page views from MUScoop.

These guys have all either been banned by you or can’t afford these outrageous monthly dues.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

The US undergraduate population for people of color today is 47.1%. Marquette's is 29%. MU indexes at 61. In your wokeness, if you think that is even a D grade for a faith-based school, then good god.

Back to the topic of potential coaches, I see all sorts of flairs going up around this with a lot of words. The simple fact is, that for a decade not one JUCO player has set foot in The Al, when they have in the past.

Between Larry and Scholl and the current president, we have heard about the raised academic standards. This board thinks our best candidate coaches, who all currently and in the past recruit JUCOS, and see JUCOS, preps and transfers as a quick way to rebuild and balance a program. That's not in line with those standards, written or otherwise, MU had switched to.

Nate Oats, Otz, I mean come on people. Get a clue on how they recruit and their fit to the new MU.

LOL.  Talk about a goalpost shift. 

You claim that MU wasn't advancing diversity by not admitting Jucos in the men's basketball program.  Which is absurd.  When I point out that MU has actually made more strides in diversity since Buzz left, you then compare to nationwide stats.  Which I never did...TAMU never did...and YOU never did.

It has nothing to do with the laziness of using adjectives like "woke."  It has to do with logically consistent arguments.

The fact is that MU has recruited Jucos under Wojo.  He has hosted them on campus.

It is approximately 43rd on the list of the top 50 reasons why Wojo hasn't succeeded.

[4everwarriors]

As fore recruits, MU should take anywon of dem hoo kan pay tuition, aina?