MU Coaching Candidates

[brewcity77]

It's not a matter of capability at all, but I don't think a high major will be where such a hire takes place.  In my opinion, it will be a mid-major.

I don't. I think it will take a high major, or even NBA team showing the courage before it filters down.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Not only that but why would an NBA assistant go mid major?

[brewcity77]

Not only that but why would an NBA assistant go mid major?

Exactly. Hammon interviewed for the Bucks job. She's not taking Fresno State instead. And like I said, you only try to interview her if you're serious. Marquette would be a step down from jobs she's been interviewed for.

[Galway Eagle]

What about this past decade? Both schools made the NCAA's four times. Results not all that extreme in difference this past decade as well.

Before we continue, let's not miss my point here. The point of course is MU is not really in a position then or this past decade to be so dismissive.

It's a slow day at work so I'm going to indulge some data.

I could be wrong here but 10, 11, 12, 14, 17, 19 seems like it adds up to six. And 6>4

Also I could be wrong here but I'd call Rds 64, 16,  16, 8, 64, 64 better than 32, 32, 32, 64.

Finally let's not stop at one decade let's go from 2000, where they've made an astounding 1 additional and last I checked 12 including FF, E8, 2 S16, 2 RD 32, 6 Rd 64 > 3 Rd 32, 2 Rd 64.

Let's also not forget to factor in average Kenpom rating during this last decade either:

10: SLU- 98, MU- 24
11: SLU- 127, MU- 26
12: SLU- 14, MU- 18
13: SLU- 19, MU- 26
14: SLU- 35, MU- 68
15: SLU- 289, MU- 93
16: SLU- 226, MU- 97
17: SLU- 273, MU- 32
18: SLU- 148, MU- 53
19: SLU- 106, MU- 33

I don't want to draw conclusions for you, so you can tell me if those numbers look like a mid major with a few great teams or a high major. But if you think SLU's 2010 team is good then you'd better have loved the Ellenson team as well.

[Cheeks]

Not only that but why would an NBA assistant go mid major?

She may not.  I believe the first female head coach of a men’s D1 program will be at a mid major, whether that’s is Hammon or not...I don’t know.

[Babybluejeans]

How do you know this?  Just an opinion.  Yes, Hammon would be a big "splash", of course no one knows if any 17-18 year old talented boys basketball players would ever be willing to play for her (maybe yes, maybe no), but that would be a big splash for sure....not the splash a program like MU should be the first to make.  If she is the one, Pop should retire and the Spurs should make her head coach on his recommendation.  I don't see that happening.

Some are leaders and some are followers. You’ve proven yourself the latter. So it’s not surprising you’d advocate for the benign comfort of watching others lead (on Hammon or any other issue for that matter). She’s trained under the best coach in basketball and plenty of folks relish, rather than resist, the idea that MU would be the first to “make a splash.” I’d trust the BoT doesn’t think as myopically as you.

[🏀]

Tom Crean return.

[shoothoops]

It's a slow day at work so I'm going to indulge some data.

I could be wrong here but 10, 11, 12, 14, 17, 19 seems like it adds up to six. And 6>4

Also I could be wrong here but I'd call Rds 64, 16,  16, 8, 64, 64 better than 32, 32, 32, 64.

Finally let's not stop at one decade let's go from 2000, where they've made an astounding 1 additional and last I checked 12 including FF, E8, 2 S16, 2 RD 32, 6 Rd 64 > 3 Rd 32, 2 Rd 64.

Let's also not forget to factor in average Kenpom rating during this last decade either:

10: SLU- 98, MU- 24
11: SLU- 127, MU- 26
12: SLU- 14, MU- 18
13: SLU- 19, MU- 26
14: SLU- 35, MU- 68
15: SLU- 289, MU- 93
16: SLU- 226, MU- 97
17: SLU- 273, MU- 32
18: SLU- 148, MU- 53
19: SLU- 106, MU- 33

I don't want to draw conclusions for you, so you can tell me if those numbers look like a mid major with a few great teams or a high major. But if you think SLU's 2010 team is good then you'd better have loved the Ellenson team as well.

I started in 2011. So 5 and 4. KenPom top 35 is what 5 and 3? .....making the point that it isn't quite as extreme as presumed the past decade neither at the other time period as well.

The dismissive attitude regarding the topic seems misplaced to me.

[Billy Hoyle]

Some are leaders and some are followers. You’ve proven yourself the latter. So it’s not surprising you’d advocate for the benign comfort of watching others lead (on Hammon or any other issue for that matter). She’s trained under the best coach in basketball and plenty of folks relish, rather than resist, the idea that MU would be the first to “make a splash.” I’d trust the BoT doesn’t think as myopically as you.

It could potentially be a great hire, but why would she pass up the opportunity to likely be the next HC of the Spurs?

[Galway Eagle]

I started in 2011. So 5 and 4. KenPom top 35 is what 5 and 3? .....making the point that it isn't quite as extreme as presumed the past decade neither at the other time period as well.

The dismissive attitude regarding the topic seems misplaced to me.

Right, I get your point. But high major teams don't have Kpom numbers that bad. They're indicative of a team that had a few good runs in a weaker conference (ie Murray st). For reference lowly Depaul in the past decade hasn't fallen below 190.

[Cheeks]

Some are leaders and some are followers. You’ve proven yourself the latter. So it’s not surprising you’d advocate for the benign comfort of watching others lead (on Hammon or any other issue for that matter). She’s trained under the best coach in basketball and plenty of folks relish, rather than resist, the idea that MU would be the first to “make a splash.” I’d trust the BoT doesn’t think as myopically as you.

I think through life that has proven incorrect for me.  My entire staff sans one is female...19 in all, now.  Mostly minority as well. But feel free to take the cheap shot.

To make the best COLLEGE coaching hire they have to be able to recruit, too.  That would be my concern with Hammon.  Carry on and Happy New Year

[shoothoops]

Right, I get your point. But high major teams don't have Kpom numbers that bad. They're indicative of a team that had a few good runs in a weaker conference (ie Murray st). For reference lowly Depaul in the past decade hasn't fallen below 190.

SLU was competitive in every conference with Marquette. During the decade, A-10 was one of the better leagues out there getting many invites at the time.  If former MU alum, assistant Rick Majerus didn’t have health problems the numbers would be a bit different. SLU hired Crews because that is who Rick wanted. Rick was a great coach but he never had the Xavier, Butler coaching hand off system in place so to speak. Whitesell left for St. John’s with Lavin. Moser to be a head coach again in the Valley, and Jensen left as well. SLU would have been better off to go their own way after Rick i stead of Crews..  So those weren’t exactly usual circumstances. So comparing that with some 90’s MU KenPom etc...you either make the tourney or you don't ...DePaul would not be good enough to be comparable to SLU dueing the same time periods based on basic make the NCAA's criteria instead of debating 90's 100's KenPom vs 200's over a few year period.....again, the dismissiveness seems very misplaced here.

[Silent Verbal]

Wojo is the guy. 

Those of you who think otherwise have a very warped sense of reality.

Teal?

[Mike Deane's Seat Belt]

Thinking D wade could ever be bothered to coach in milwaukee while he is enjoying the fruits of retirement is insane.  Hes gonna be a pretty face on TNT before long.   Maybe when hes like 55 or something he would have some interest in coaching. 

Wardle shows some promise but honestly his level is basically appropriate for the old conference usa type league, essentially back to an insignificant program on the national level with a bunch of die hards in the fan base that hope for a tourney birth every few years. 

Diener (nah , see above with less proven record)

Honestly I would welcome back crean with open arms at this point but he is shunned from campus I think. 

D wade would be amazing I think on the recruiting end , great personality, all time great player at the pro level , could recruit anybody but he is too bright a star to ever come back to lowly milwaukee for anything other than a final four reunion or a nba hall of fame induction thank you half time special.   

The market is very very bleak for coaches at this time.  But wojo needs to gojo cuz he has no mojo!

[Uncle Rico]

Thinking D wade could ever be bothered to coach in milwaukee while he is enjoying the fruits of retirement is insane.  Hes gonna be a pretty face on TNT before long.   Maybe when hes like 55 or something he would have some interest in coaching. 

Wardle shows some promise but honestly his level is basically appropriate for the old conference usa type league, essentially back to an insignificant program on the national level with a bunch of die hards in the fan base that hope for a tourney birth every few years. 

Diener (nah , see above with less proven record)

Honestly I would welcome back crean with open arms at this point but he is shunned from campus I think. 

D wade would be amazing I think on the recruiting end , great personality, all time great player at the pro level , could recruit anybody but he is too bright a star to ever come back to lowly milwaukee for anything other than a final four reunion or a nba hall of fame induction thank you half time special.   

The market is very very bleak for coaches at this time.  But wojo needs to gojo cuz he has no mojo!

Great rhyming

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

SLU has a nice little program.

They last went to a S16 in 1957.  Every BE program has been to a Final Four since that time, except Xavier (multiple Elite 8s) and Creighton.  SLU is not a high major.  They're a mid major who had the foresight to hire a good coach now and then.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Teal?

I think he means for next year. I think he is right. You have to be strategic when changing coaches. Barring scandal or losing pretty much every remaining game, I think Wojo is the coach next season.

[cheebs09]

I think he means for next year. I think he is right. You have to be strategic when changing coaches. Barring scandal or losing pretty much every remaining game, I think Wojo is the coach next season.

I think if Wojo misses the NCAAT this year, his seat is warm, but no way fired. Unless, we have a big scandal, he’s here next year. Next year he’s able to play the youth card after losing Sacar and Markus.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I think if Wojo misses the NCAAT this year, his seat is warm, but no way fired. Unless, we have a big scandal, he’s here next year. Next year he’s able to play the youth card after losing Sacar and Markus.

If you look around, programs will often wait until years where the "youth card" is a legitimate excuse to make a coaching change. Unless you are a blue blood, you can't fire a guy who just made the NCAA tournament (barring scandal). They will wait until the next year when the team is young and misses the tournament to make the move. It gives the school a legitimate performance issue and barring mass transfers (which is a risk) you provide the new coach with a solid young core rather than starting with a roster that just graduated it is entire starting lineup.

[shoothoops]

SLU has a nice little program.

They last went to a S16 in 1957.  Every BE program has been to a Final Four since that time, except Xavier (multiple Elite 8s) and Creighton.  SLU is not a high major.  They're a mid major who had the foresight to hire a good coach now and then.

SLU's results haven't been all that different than Marquette during the time periods discussed in that conversation.

There seems to be a defensive irrational fear of a few when comparing MU to some of these schools during specific periods of time. The other poster mentioned Drew Diener as a coaching candidate and used his experience there as a positive in his suggestion. I said I wasn't an advocate for him to be an MU candidate at this time.

No one is discussing 1957 or the one MU Final Four in the past 43 years

[Mike Deane's Seat Belt]

Wojo's seat temperature is kinda like the krebs cycle or something like that. 

With each year of disappointment there is just enough upside that he buys himself another year. 

Its early he needs time-----
We made the tourney but got destroyed------ hurray we made it back can only go up from here
We land a huge fish(HE) -  see if he would have stayed we would have been elite, its not his fault needs more time
Get blown out by Morant ---- next year is the year all the pieces will come together
Two starters leave for greener pastures --- its the hausers fault we need to give him more time its hard to lose two players unexpectedly
2020(to be determined ---- looking like we will finish behind depaul for the first time in forever ------  but we have a great class coming in we cant pull the emergency chute cord just yet.     
and onnnn and onnnnn and onnnn

[brewcity77]

To make the best COLLEGE coaching hire they have to be able to recruit, too.  That would be my concern with Hammon.  Carry on and Happy New Year

That wouldn't worry me terribly. She can pull out references from numerous NBA players (look at Pau Gasol's glowing reference) and as we've seen with Wojo, it's just as much about the right assistants (Stan, Dwyane) as anything.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

SLU's results haven't been all that different than Marquette during the time periods discussed in that conversation.

There seems to be a defensive irrational fear of a few when comparing MU to some of these schools during specific periods of time. The other poster mentioned Drew Diener as a coaching candidate and used his experience there as a positive in his suggestion. I said I wasn't an advocate for him to be an MU candidate at this time.

No one is discussing 1957 or the one MU Final Four in the past 43 years

No one has an irrational fear of SLU.  They have an irrational fear of dumb comparisons. 

[Billy Hoyle]

SLU has a nice little program.

They last went to a S16 in 1957.  Every BE program has been to a Final Four since that time, except Xavier (multiple Elite 8s) and Creighton.  SLU is not a high major.  They're a mid-major who had the foresight to hire a good coach now and then.

There were only 24 teams in the tourney in 1957 and they got a bye to the round of 16 and proceeded to lose the regional third place game.  So yeah, they did make the "sweet 16" but did so without having to win a game.

SLU has caught lightning in a bottle a couple of times.  The hire of Spoon and a strong local class (like KO's first class) helped them in the mid 90's the machinations they pulled to get Hughes for that one year got them a NCAA tourney win in 1998 but they didn't sustain.  Who knows what happens to them if Majerus stays healthy. Instead, they made a few bad coaching hires (Soderberg and Crews) and squandered any momentum they had been building.

Their biggest blunder though was rejecting the MVC invite in 2003. Had they taken it and upheld the agreement they had with Creighton they may be in the NBE. Instead, they burned bridges when they turned down the MVC (their President at the time was pretty much despised in sports circles too which was another factor in being rejected for the NBE) and are now pretty much locked into the A-10.

[Galway Eagle]

SLU was competitive in every conference with Marquette. During the decade, A-10 was one of the better leagues out there getting many invites at the time.  If former MU alum, assistant Rick Majerus didn’t have health problems the numbers would be a bit different. SLU hired Crews because that is who Rick wanted. Rick was a great coach but he never had the Xavier, Butler coaching hand off system in place so to speak. Whitesell left for St. John’s with Lavin. Moser to be a head coach again in the Valley, and Jensen left as well. SLU would have been better off to go their own way after Rick i stead of Crews..  So those weren’t exactly usual circumstances. So comparing that with some 90’s MU KenPom etc...you either make the tourney or you don't ...DePaul would not be good enough to be comparable to SLU dueing the same time periods based on basic make the NCAA's criteria instead of debating 90's 100's KenPom vs 200's over a few year period.....again, the dismissiveness seems very misplaced here.

Correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds like your argument is stat based metrics be dammed because you either make the tournament or don't, but the fact is high major teams don't fall that low in metrics. It's basically saying 18 or 16 may have well been the 15 season for us or even worse. Even though we weren't bad by the metrics just not good enough (or in 18 not good in the archaic rpi)

Then it seems like you're saying Post season success metrics be dammed because you either make it or you don't doesn't matter how you do when you get there.

It also sounds like you're saying Excuse the bad seasons because they lost Rick. Thus they are a high major? 

By that logic I'm just gonna sit back and say MU is as good as Duke because Al retired and told us to give Hank the job, but who knows would've happened if Al stayed. This is a very odd platform to die on when every conceivable metric says otherwise. Whether you choose the last decade or two or even three.