MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: GoldenWarrior11 on October 07, 2014, 02:29:24 PM
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Some tweets from Jon Rothstein who was at practice today:
Jon RothsteinVerified account
@JonRothstein
Greetings from Milwaukee! Here for Marquette practice. The new era begins now!
Jon RothsteinVerified account
@JonRothstein
It won't be this season, but Marquette's Luke Fischer will eventually develop into one of the best big men in the Big East. 6-11 + skilled.
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@JonRothstein
Marquette won't have a player on its roster taller than 6-7 until Luke Fischer is eligible. Undersized team for first eight games of 14-15.
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@JonRothstein
Early prediction on Marquette's initial starting five --- Derrick Wilson, Matt Carlino, Jajuan Johnson, Deonte Burton, Steve Taylor...
Jon RothsteinVerified account
@JonRothstein
Marquette needs multiple players to have breakout seasons to be a surprise Big East team. Likeliest candidates --- Johnson, Burton, Taylor.
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Jon RothsteinVerified account
@JonRothstein
Expect Matt Carlino to potentially challenge D'Angelo Harrison as one of the top scorers in the Big East. Should put up gaudy numbers.
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Jon RothsteinVerified account
@JonRothstein
Marquette has named Derrick Wilson and Juan Anderson as captains for the 14-15 season, per Golden Eagles SID Scott Kuykendall.
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Derrick Wilson to start? Somebody call 911 and get an ambulance to Ners' house.
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Think Derrick will be much more suited to play with the other four projected starters. All four of them are aggressive offensive players. It was never going to work with Derrick, Juan, Jake, and Chris on the floor.
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Not surprised at all that Derrick would be starting.
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Derrick haters about to become Wojo haters if this proves to be true?
Honeymoon is over.......lol
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Rothstein's stuff is always great. Works as hard as anyone.
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With no bigs, Derrick is a physical type player, I see it. Duane has not played one game yet. Need somebody to play some D.
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Derrick starting (if it happens) would not surprise me at all. Didn't surprise me last year to start either. We all assumed he would probably begin the year there with Duane eventually taking over, but obviously injuries didn't allow that to happen... i would assume if everyone is healthy we would see something similar this year as well, or at least that's what i am hoping...
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Jon RothsteinVerified account
@JonRothstein
This is the first Marquette team I can remember that doesn't have a clear cut alpha dog. Who steps into that role in 14-15? TBD.
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Doesn't Ners have a bet with someone about derricks minutes?
Things gonna get real interesting, real quick
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Didn't somebody on this board guarantee that Juan was going to start?
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Not surprised at all that Derrick would be starting.
+1
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Jon RothsteinVerified account
@JonRothstein
This is the first Marquette team I can remember that doesn't have a clear cut alpha dog. Who steps into that role in 14-15? TBD.
I expect it will be Burton.
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Not surprised at all that Derrick would be starting.
Not sure anyone should be surprised a high character senior who just logged 937 minutes the previous year is starting. What will surprise me is if he plays more than 17 minutes per game conference play.
If he does, it will only be the result of his hard work having improved his jump shot to the point he is a threat to shoot and score from the perimeter. Simply won't see him playing 17 minutes or more if he's defended the way he was last year.
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Derrick Wilson starting doesn't necessarily mean Derrick getting more minutes than Duane.
I don't mind having Duane come off the bench as the first sub at the 1 or the 2.
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Remember Carlino's interview from early this summer. There may not be a designated point guard. Just a bunch of guards. Could end up switching who brings the ball up every time down the court.
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Doesn't Ners have a bet with someone about derricks minutes?
Things gonna get real interesting, real quick
Check the sig!
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Think Derrick will be much more suited to play with the other four projected starters. All four of them are aggressive offensive players. It was never going to work with Derrick, Juan, Jake, and Chris on the floor.
[/b]
Truth. Yet with all of his basketball acumen and experience in the game, Buzz couldn't seem to figure the last part out. (Right.)
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Not sure anyone should be surprised a high character senior who just logged 937 minutes the previous year is starting. What will surprise me is if he plays more than 17 minutes per game conference play.
If he does, it will only be the result of his hard work having improved his jump shot to the point he is a threat to shoot and score from the perimeter. Simply won't see him playing 17 minutes or more if he's defended the way he was last year.
Well, if you think he'll get 17 mpg you'll lose our wager - want out for 450?
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Derrick was ineffective on offense last year.
However, he does several things really well.
#1 Defense
#2 Rebound
#3 Doesn't turn it over
That type of PG can be effective, but he needs guys around him that can shoot and score.
So, while I understand some of the frustration last season, we should also keep in mind that Derrick might be a good fit in a young line-up with some offensive potential. Let Derrick manage the game, and let the other guys do the shooting and scoring.
Mix and match with Duane as applicable.
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I'm surprised with Derrick starting talk. I suppose it's a name versus starters minutes but with as small as the line-up is without Fischer I would think Derrick's issues would be even more pronounced. I think Derrick becomes more valuable once Luke is available, but maybe I'm an idiot.
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Well, if you think he'll get 17 mpg you'll lose our wager - want out for 450?
No thanks. I wouldn't get too excited if I were you - not until you see Derrick draining some 3's and perimeter jump shots at a 25+% clip - then you may have some hope. Being named a starter isn't worth a whole lot - you should know as your guy Buzz started guys like Jake and Juan over Todd and Deonte. LOL.
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Derrick was ineffective on offense last year.
However, he does several things really well.
#1 Defense
#2 Rebound
#3 Doesn't turn it over
That type of PG can be effective, but he needs guys around him that can shoot and score.
So, while I understand some of the frustration last season, we should also keep in mind that Derrick might be a good fit in a young line-up with some offensive potential. Let Derrick manage the game, and let the other guys do the shooting and scoring.
Mix and match with Duane as applicable.
Let's hope so...
And let's not get carried away with Number 3 - when you never push the ball in transition and rarely penetrate to the paint, and your defender is 5' off of you - it's pretty hard to turn the ball over. Even a wrestler wouldn't turn the ball over much when defended as Derrick was last year. LOL
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Jon RothsteinVerified account
@JonRothstein
This is the first Marquette team I can remember that doesn't have a clear cut alpha dog. Who steps into that role in 14-15? TBD.
Who was our clear cut alpha dog last season? Jamil? Davante? Big drop off/disappointment from a string of Hayward, Butler, Crowder and Blue.
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Let's hope so...
And let's not get carried away with Number 3 - when you never push the ball in transition and rarely penetrate to the paint, and your defender is 5' off of you - it's pretty hard to turn the ball over. Even a wrestler wouldn't turn the ball over much when defended as Derrick was last year. LOL
I know he never met your eye test as he protected the ball and set up his teammates but the numbers say he did both better that Cadougan. Derrick last year: 4.2 apg, 1.5 tpg, 2.8 - 1 assist to turnover ratio. Junior's senior season: 3.8 apg, 2.5 tpg, 1.5 assist to turnover ratio. More assists, fewer turnovers, much, much better ratio. Not even close. Not even at the rec center.
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I know he never met your eye test as he protected the ball and set up his teammates but the numbers say he did both better that Cadougan. Derrick last year: 4.2 apg, 1.5 tpg, 2.8 - 1 assist to turnover ratio. Junior's senior season: 3.8 apg, 2.5 tpg, 1.5 assist to turnover ratio. Not really very close.
The difference being that Junior caused defenses to play differently because he was a threat to get to the rim.
Not disagreeing with you, just pointing out that stats aren't everything.
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What are the terms of the big bet again?
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The difference being that Junior caused defenses to play differently because he was a threat to get to the rim.
Not disagreeing with you, just pointing out that stats aren't everything.
Shouldn't he have had a bunch more assists then?
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What are the terms of the big bet again?
D Wilson vs J Dawson - minutes played.
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Shouldn't he have had a bunch more assists then?
Junior gets it in easily to Gardner, who gets double teamed by Vander's guy. Kicks to Vander, who scores. No assist for Junior, but an easy basket.
Meanwhile, Derrick's guy is already doubling Davante. That's what I'm attempting to explain.
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Two more.
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@JonRothstein
It would have been interesting to see Marquette's team last year with Duane Wilson. Still learning but has a chance to be a very capable PG.
Jon RothsteinVerified account
@JonRothstein
The guy that's made an impression today for Marquette? Sandy Cohen. 6-6 freshman makes open shots and is a ball mover. Good "blend" player.
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Two more.
Jon RothsteinVerified account
@JonRothstein
It would have been interesting to see Marquette's team last year with Duane Wilson. Still learning but has a chance to be a very capable PG.
Jon RothsteinVerified account
@JonRothstein
The guy that's made an impression today for Marquette? Sandy Cohen. 6-6 freshman makes open shots and is a ball mover. Good "blend" player.
I think Sandy Cohen will give us what we thought we were getting from Juan....god I hope I didn't curse him....has Sandy been to any Brewer games this year????
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D Wilson vs J Dawson - minutes played.
Interesting that there aren't many mentions of John Dawson anywhere. I'm wondering if this might be a tough year for him given the guards in front of him. Next year he may end up being a starter, or at least a solid rotation guy, with Derrick and Carlino graduating. But unless he really surprises me, I can see him getting caught up in a minutes shortage.
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Who was our clear cut alpha dog last season?
Had the exact same question, Lenny. That was one of the main issues last year.
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Let's hope so...
And let's not get carried away with Number 3 - when you never push the ball in transition and rarely penetrate to the paint, and your defender is 5' off of you - it's pretty hard to turn the ball over. Even a wrestler wouldn't turn the ball over much when defended as Derrick was last year. LOL
Yes and no.
Yes, Derrick is a bad shooter, but no, it's not that easy to do what he does.
We've seen what MU looks like without a PG. Remember Marcus Jackson, Point Center? Derrick would have been incredible for that team. AND, if Derrick is just standing around, how is he amassing assists on a team without shooters? He might be doing something, right?
We don't need to rehash this whole topic again, but I'll just say that I still think Derrick can be an effective player if he's put in the right spots.
Hopefully this year's line-up and rotation can help with that.
That's my HOT TAKE on Derrick Wilson. STEAMY.
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http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1808594-marquette-media-day-takeaways-golden-eagles-ready-for-new-challenges
Buzz says it in the first paragraph. Everything else, every other quote, is seashells and balloons. None of which panned out. But that first paragraph sure did. There was no alpha dog. The seniors did not step up. It was supposed to be Vander's team, but he left.
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Yes and no.
Yes, Derrick is a bad shooter, but no, it's not that easy to do what he does.
We've seen what MU looks like without a PG. Remember Marcus Jackson, Point Center? Derrick would have been incredible for that team. AND, if Derrick is just standing around, how is he amassing assists on a team without shooters? He might be doing something, right?
We don't need to rehash this whole topic again, but I'll just say that I still think Derrick can be an effective player if he's put in the right spots.
Hopefully this year's line-up and rotation can help with that.
That's my HOT TAKE on Derrick Wilson. STEAMY.
Why should we have to settle for a guy to be effective if put in the right spot? This backcourt should be plenty deep this year.
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Interesting that there aren't many mentions of John Dawson anywhere. I'm wondering if this might be a tough year for him given the guards in front of him. Next year he may end up being a starter, or at least a solid rotation guy, with Derrick and Carlino graduating. But unless he really surprises me, I can see him getting caught up in a minutes shortage.
9 Players the first quarter, all 9 will get a chance, that is for sure. He will play himself into more time or bench time. Fisher will see immediate playing time even if he does not deserve it just because he is tall. Dawson or Cohen could be 9 and 10, so there time will depend on what happens early in the season.
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Derrick haters about to become Wojo haters if this proves to be true?
Honeymoon is over.......lol
:)
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9 Players the first quarter, all 9 will get a chance, that is for sure. He will play himself into more time or bench time. Fisher will see immediate playing time even if he does not deserve it just because he is tall. Dawson or Cohen could be 9 and 10, so there time will depend on what happens early in the season.
Agree with that. With the small roster, guys are going to get time, especially early in the season.
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https://twitter.com/JonRothstein/status/519575612206219266
100% agree with this one.
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Derrick was ineffective on offense last year.
However, he does several things really well.
#1 Defense
#2 Rebound
#3 Doesn't turn it over
That type of PG can be effective, but he needs guys around him that can shoot and score.
So, while I understand some of the frustration last season, we should also keep in mind that Derrick might be a good fit in a young line-up with some offensive potential. Let Derrick manage the game, and let the other guys do the shooting and scoring.
Mix and match with Duane as applicable.
Then get ready for some .500 ball and low scoring games.
I think this is more of Wojo championing the grizzled senior who's had to deal with his shortcomings, stays true to the team, and is a strong and reliable defender.
Otherwise, watch out for Dawson!
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Rothstein's stuff is always great. Works as hard as anyone.
So much Jon Rothstein in Mike Hunt.
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Then get ready for some .500 ball
That is what I am expecting.
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Some good Wojo quotes from Rothstein's Twitter page:
Jon Rothstein @JonRothstein · 2h 2 hours ago
@steve_wojo on Luke Fischer and Duane Wilson "I think those two guys are going to be good players, they just haven't proven it yet."
Jon Rothstein @JonRothstein · 2h 2 hours ago
@steve_wojo on the keys to Marquette's season "We need our seniors to set the tone and we need our young guys to step forward."
Jon Rothstein @JonRothstein · 2h 2 hours ago
@steve_wojo on Sandy Cohen "Once he adds strength, he's going to be a really good player in the Big East."
Jon Rothstein @JonRothstein · 2h 2 hours ago
@steve_wojo on Matt Carlino "He's been great. It helps that he's got experience. He's serious about the game."
Jon Rothstein @JonRothstein · 2h 2 hours ago
@steve_wojo on Marquette "I think we have good kids. We just have to learn to play together. We're unproven."
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Two PG's starting? That makes sense! Derrick starting and garnering major minutes will be a huge downfall for the team. Oh well, there is always next year.
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With no bigs, Derrick is a physical type player, I see it. Duane has not played one game yet. Need somebody to play some D.
Yeah right. Derrick is the perfect guy for a lack of bigs. Guess he can play down low for those awesome putbacks that he will miss.
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Think Derrick will be much more suited to play with the other four projected starters. All four of them are aggressive offensive players. It was never going to work with Derrick, Juan, Jake, and Chris on the floor.
But that was what the phony one put out there all year long!!!!!!!!
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Derrick starting (if it happens) would not surprise me at all. Didn't surprise me last year to start either. We all assumed he would probably begin the year there with Duane eventually taking over, but obviously injuries didn't allow that to happen... i would assume if everyone is healthy we would see something similar this year as well, or at least that's what i am hoping...
So you are hoping for something similar to last year, like 17-15?
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Derrick haters about to become Wojo haters if this proves to be true?
Honeymoon is over.......lol
How long until Willie calls him the lonesome Polack?
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Just because some sports reporter predicts that Derrick will be starting, doesn't mean it is guaranteed. I remember a couple weeks ago, Big Daddy revealed what he thought was going to be the starting five and Derrick wasn't in it.
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How long until Willie calls him the lonesome Polack?
My money's on Willie using PP, the Phony Polock.
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Just because some sports reporter predicts that Derrick will be starting doesn't mean it is guarenteed. I remember a couple weeks ago Big Daddy revealed what he thought was going to be the starting five and Derrick wasn't in it.
Correct. Also, the guy starting early in the year may not be starting later. The starter may not be the finisher. But I can easily envision Derrick starting with those 4, with Duane being the scorer on the second unit at the point when Juan, John, and Sandy (and eventually Luke) enter the game. What I took in total from the tweets is (A) Pretty boilerplate. (Everybody working hard) (B) Wojo still doesn't really know how the pieces are going to fit together (C) Luke and Duane continue to be talented works in progress. (D) One player not mentioned. The most important point is B. Wojo still doesn't know how the pieces fit and may not for some time.
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Derrick Wilson to start? Somebody call 911 and get an ambulance to Ners' house.
Derrick starting isn't THAT big of a deal as long as there are other shooters on the floor. Without shooters they (the defense) basically have all 5 guys in the key and nothing good can happen.
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There's a lot of possibilities, as long as we go undefeated and try and start every pleaser MUscoop deems worthy nobody transfers and Wojo lands Henry then the honeymoon will continue!
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How long until Willie calls him the lonesome Polack?
Let's make a bet.
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Two PG's starting? That makes sense! Derrick starting and garnering major minutes will be a huge downfall for the team. Oh well, there is always next year.
God you are already bitching?
Carlino mentioned earlier in the year that Wojo is going to have multiple guards bringing up the ball. So having Carlino and Derrick on the floor makes plenty of sense.
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God you are already bitching?
Carlino mentioned earlier in the year that Wojo is going to have multiple guards bringing up the ball. So having Carlino and Derrick on the floor makes plenty of sense.
Having an offensive liability on the floor will never make any sense.
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The good news is there is some Marquette basketball being played!
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Having an offensive liability on the floor will never make any sense.
That is absolutely not true. Not everyone on the floor needs to be a scorer. The problem with last year is that you usually had multiple players on the floor that weren't scorers.
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My money's on Willie using PP, the Phony Polock.
There are guys catching Pollock on fly rods. Magnificent!
(http://www.whitbyseaanglers.co.uk/images-fish/the%20pollock%20master.jpg)
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Let's make a bet.
Willie, we may not always agree but you have a sense of humor.
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Having an offensive liability on the floor will never make any sense.
The NBA has guys in or headed to the Hall of Fame who couldn't score 20 points if they were in any empty gym for 10 minutes.
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That is absolutely not true. Not everyone on the floor needs to be a scorer. The problem with last year is that you usually had multiple players on the floor that weren't scorers.
They don't have to be a scorer, but they at least need to be a threat to score to keep defenses honest.
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The NBA has guys in or headed to the Hall of Fame who couldn't score 20 points if they were in any empty gym for 10 minutes.
Really? Like who?
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Not surprised at all that Derrick would be starting.
Put it in sharpie
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They don't have to be a scorer, but they at least need to be a threat to score to keep defenses honest.
I guess someone who shoots 39.1% is a "threat to score" in my eyes. It looks like Wojo might feel the same.
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Really? Like who?
KC Jones. Career FG% lower than Derrick's last year.
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KC Jones. Career FG% lower than Derrick's last year.
And Dennis Rodman
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Rodman actually shot over 50%. He just didn't shoot much.
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Rodman actually shot over 50%. He just didn't shoot much.
Put backs and tip ins. Bad, bad shooter.
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Eventually, Ben Wallace.
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Yeah right. Derrick is the perfect guy for a lack of bigs. Guess he can play down low for those awesome putbacks that he will miss.
We can use his 5 fouls on the block!!!
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The basketball hall of fame is notoriously the easiest hall to be enshrined in. I can't speak to KC Jones as he was well before my time. Dennis Rodman and Ben Wallace were both perennial defensive player of the year candidates, though I don't think it's a given that Wallace gets in. Both of these were post players, not players who are expected to facilitate the offense. It is a much different scenario having an offensively challenged PG versus a post player. Anyways, I don't want to travel down this road again...hopefully things are much improved this season and time will tell. Ready for the season to start!!
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Maybe, just maybe...someone has taught Derrick how to drain jump shots. We don't know who's been working with him or how hard he's been working in the off season. Maybe we should wait and see.
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Jon RothsteinVerified account
@JonRothstein
This is the first Marquette team I can remember that doesn't have a clear cut alpha dog. Who steps into that role in 14-15? TBD.
Didnt have one last year either
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Not sure anyone should be surprised a high character senior who just logged 937 minutes the previous year is starting. What will surprise me is if he plays more than 17 minutes per game conference play.
If he does, it will only be the result of his hard work having improved his jump shot to the point he is a threat to shoot and score from the perimeter. Simply won't see him playing 17 minutes or more if he's defended the way he was last year.
If Derrick does play 17+ mpg, it will only mean we are in serious trouble. Just as him and Jake playing major minutes last season signaled trouble. A good team doesn't have its least talented players garnering big minutes.
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I know he never met your eye test as he protected the ball and set up his teammates but the numbers say he did both better that Cadougan. Derrick last year: 4.2 apg, 1.5 tpg, 2.8 - 1 assist to turnover ratio. Junior's senior season: 3.8 apg, 2.5 tpg, 1.5 assist to turnover ratio. More assists, fewer turnovers, much, much better ratio. Not even close. Not even at the rec center.
This is a classic example of stats being almost completely meaningless.
Junior could break down a defender and aggressively drive to the hoop. Even if he missed a shot, usually good things happened because defenses collapsed on him and one of our guys could get the rebound. He could make a free throw. Junior could hit the occasional jumper. He made one of the biggest shots of the season, that 3 against UConn; Derrick has no chance with that kind of shot. Junior wasn't as good a man-to-man defender as Derrick but turned more of his steals into the kind of easy fast-break hoops that just about never happened last season.
Turnovers? Junior took advantage of small cracks in the defense to be aggressive while Derrick mostly stood 30 feet from the basket and passed safely to a teammate on the perimeter 10 feet away from him. Of course Junior had more turnovers.
Junior's talent level was the absolute minimum a good college program should expect from its PG. Derrick wasn't even close to that minimum last year because he could neither shoot nor drive. I mean, come on, defend Derrick if you want, but please don't be silly.
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This is a classic example of stats being almost completely meaningless.
Junior could break down a defender and aggressively drive to the hoop. Even if he missed a shot, usually good things happened because defenses collapsed on him and one of our guys could get the rebound. He could make a free throw. Junior could hit the occasional jumper. He made one of the biggest shots of the season, that 3 against UConn; Derrick has no chance with that kind of shot. Junior wasn't as good a man-to-man defender as Derrick but turned more of his steals into the kind of easy fast-break hoops that just about never happened last season.
Turnovers? Junior took advantage of small cracks in the defense to be aggressive while Derrick mostly stood 30 feet from the basket and passed safely to a teammate on the perimeter 10 feet away from him. Of course Junior had more turnovers.
Junior's talent level was the absolute minimum a good college program should expect from its PG. Derrick wasn't even close to that minimum last year because he could neither shoot nor drive. I mean, come on, defend Derrick if you want, but please don't be silly.
Completely agree with your analysis. Also agree if Derrick plays major minutes we are in trouble. I think he is best suited for high intensity short burst. 10-15 minutes max. I am okay with him being a starter, he works hard and is a leader. However, we really need Duane in for major minutes. He is a serious athlete who has the ability to make things happen. I am sure Wojo is pushing him hard to take his game to a higher level.
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Interesting that there aren't many mentions of John Dawson anywhere. I'm wondering if this might be a tough year for him given the guards in front of him. Next year he may end up being a starter, or at least a solid rotation guy, with Derrick and Carlino graduating. But unless he really surprises me, I can see him getting caught up in a minutes shortage.
Good observation. Interestingly enough, Rothstein didn't make one comment on Deonte Burton either...other than naming him in the starting lineup...which everyone here of course knows Deonte will be a starter. I'm not going to get too carried away with Rothstein observations as to who was named/wasn't named in individual tweets. I know what I saw last year and I saw that Dawson has a very good feel for the game and a high ceiling. Whether that is this year or next, or as a senior, when it is all said and done - he will have been a good player at MU.
Nonetheless, should be interesting to see how it all plays out once the lights come on and the guys are playing in games. Lots to look forward to this season with the underclassmen and Wojo leading the ship.
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Maybe Deonte didn't get mentioned because he wasn't at the practice Rothstein watched? His Mom just died.
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This is a classic example of stats being almost completely meaningless.
Junior could break down a defender and aggressively drive to the hoop. Even if he missed a shot, usually good things happened because defenses collapsed on him and one of our guys could get the rebound. He could make a free throw. Junior could hit the occasional jumper. He made one of the biggest shots of the season, that 3 against UConn; Derrick has no chance with that kind of shot. Junior wasn't as good a man-to-man defender as Derrick but turned more of his steals into the kind of easy fast-break hoops that just about never happened last season.
Turnovers? Junior took advantage of small cracks in the defense to be aggressive while Derrick mostly stood 30 feet from the basket and passed safely to a teammate on the perimeter 10 feet away from him. Of course Junior had more turnovers.
Junior's talent level was the absolute minimum a good college program should expect from its PG. Derrick wasn't even close to that minimum last year because he could neither shoot nor drive. I mean, come on, defend Derrick if you want, but please don't be silly.
If we didn't get steals and convert those into easy transition baskets and Derrick just stood 30 feet from the hoop and passes safely to someone 10 feet from him then how did he end up with so many assists? If my memory serves me correct our team couldn't shoot, so I don't recall us making 4 20+ footers a game, all being assisted from a safe pass from Derrick.
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If Derrick does play 17+ mpg, it will only mean we are in serious trouble. Just as him and Jake playing major minutes last season signaled trouble. A good team doesn't have its least talented players garnering big minutes.
+1000000
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Having an offensive liability on the floor will never make any sense.
Unless he is an elite gamechanger, right Sultan?
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God you are already bitching?
Carlino mentioned earlier in the year that Wojo is going to have multiple guards bringing up the ball. So having Carlino and Derrick on the floor makes plenty of sense.
It is not necessary to call me God, Sultan. Although the reference is appreciated. Shirley...you can't be serious.
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That is absolutely not true. Not everyone on the floor needs to be a scorer. The problem with last year is that you usually had multiple players on the floor that weren't scorers.
The problem with your analogy Sultan: Derrick makes the game 4 on 5; Derrick is not a creative playmaker; Derrick is limited in penetrating; Derrick can't shoot FT's; he cannot keep the D honest; Hurts the team.
But hey, it is the Sultan being Sultan, defending his boy to the hilt. Take no quarter, and never admit to a mistake.
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Good observation. Interestingly enough, Rothstein didn't make one comment on Deonte Burton either...other than naming him in the starting lineup...which everyone here of course knows Deonte will be a starter. I'm not going to get too carried away with Rothstein observations as to who was named/wasn't named in individual tweets. I know what I saw last year and I saw that Dawson has a very good feel for the game and a high ceiling. Whether that is this year or next, or as a senior, when it is all said and done - he will have been a good player at MU.
He may not have mentioned Burton because I wonder if he was even at practice due to his mother's passing, but yeah I don't expect him to mention everyone.
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This year, my expectations are that Marquette is a total wildcard. Let's see what we have with the young guys, especially Burton, Johnson, Du. Wilson and Fischer. That will frame my expectations for next year.
I'm also thinking Taylor and Dawson both show some promise. If Levin is legit and we get anything from the incoming frosh (whether HE comes or not), MU will be deep and have a chance for a 1-2 year window. I'm thinking 2 years is the big year to make a run. But if Burton/Johnson/Fischer ends up good enough to turn pro after JR year and HE comes as a legit 1-n-done, then next year could be the better year. But like I said, we've got to see what we got this year first.
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I think people tend to blame Derrick for everything that went wrong last year. He has his limitations, but he is our most experienced returning player and will follow the coaches instructions. On the one hand I find it encouraging that Rothstein thinks JJJ will start, but last year Buzz was raving about how JJJ was the best player in practice. Talent means nothing, if you cannot play to the coaches plan.
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For me this year will be totally about setting the table for the next two years. The only thing I expect out of this years team will be that it will be the most frustrating team in years. That is not intended as a put down. I think this team will show flashes of brilliance, especially when it gets a good match up and I think this team will look down right awful at times. The flashes of brilliance will make everything more maddening because fans will just say, why can't we play like that all the time? It's part of the maturation process of a very young, raw team.
Maybe I'm rationalizing because I don't think this team will be any better record wise than last year, but I think it will be a better season than last year....if that makes any sense at all.
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I agree with this. IMO, this year is Wojo figuring out how who he is as a coach. I have low expectations for the team and just want them and Wojo to work hard and get better.
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For me this year will be totally about setting the table for the next two years. The only thing I expect out of this years team will be that it will be the most frustrating team in years. That is not intended as a put down. I think this team will show flashes of brilliance, especially when it gets a good match up and I think this team will look down right awful at times. The flashes of brilliance will make everything more maddening because fans will just say, why can't we play like that all the time? It's part of the maturation process of a very young, raw team.
Maybe I'm rationalizing because I don't think this team will be any better record wise than last year, but I think it will be a better season than last year....if that makes any sense at all.
I agree with just about everything here. But am hoping to be pleasantly surprised.
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Maybe I'm rationalizing because I don't think this team will be any better record wise than last year, but I think it will be a better season than last year....if that makes any sense at all.
Lower expectations and the excitement/honeymoon phase that come with a new coach will give that perception. If Wojo sits players who are wildly inconsistent, lapse on defense, etc., the board will mostly line up with him and against the benched players. 180 degree turnaround from last year.
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Lower expectations and the excitement/honeymoon phase that come with a new coach will give that perception. If Wojo sits players who are wildly inconsistent, lapse on defense, etc., the board will mostly line up with him and against the benched players. 180 degree turnaround from last year.
I think this season is much more about Wojo than anything else. There is no doubt there is talent on this team and even better talent the next two years....but can Wojo coach'em up/develop them as well as put them in a position to be successful in games.
I also think the fan base should be prepared, I think there will be a lot of teachable moments for players, I think Wojo will have a very firm hand. Perhaps we'll get a final answer to Ner's posit that players must get at least 3 minutes of run time before they are yanked
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Jon RothsteinVerified account
@JonRothstein
It won't be this season, but Marquette's Luke Fischer will eventually develop into one of the best big men in the Big East. 6-11 + skilled.
Someone stated this here a number of months ago based on some very good intel from MU BB HQ, and was promptly attacked for it. Not what is said here, but who says the what.
He's going to be pretty good this year, people need to harbor their expectations, he's a longer term play. Agree with Rothstein.
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Someone stated this here a number of months ago based on some very good intel from MU BB HQ, and was promptly attacked for it. Not what is said here, but who says the what.
He's going to be pretty good this year, people need to harbor their expectations, he's a longer term play. Agree with Rothstein.
Fixed your post for you...I completely agree with you and Rothstein on Fischer
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Why should we have to settle for a guy to be effective if put in the right spot? This backcourt should be plenty deep this year.
If there are guys who are better than Derrick, then by all means, nail him to the bench.
I'm not sure if the other guys are better than him at this point.
Maybe by conference season, maybe never. I don't know.
My prediction is that Derrick can be pretty good for about 20mpg. If MU can find somebody to fill the other 20, then they should get decent production out of the PG spot, something they were really lacking last season.
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Someone stated this here a number of months ago based on some very good intel from MU BB HQ, and was promptly attacked for it. Not what is said here, but who says the what.
Sometimes it's what you say.
Sometimes it's the self important, name dropping, look at me way you say it.
Sometimes it's you playing the victim.
Sometimes it's the self congratulatory tone.
This is an example of #s 2, 3 and 4.
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Lower expectations and the excitement/honeymoon phase that come with a new coach will give that perception. If Wojo sits players who are wildly inconsistent, lapse on defense, etc., the board will mostly line up with him and against the benched players. 180 degree turnaround from last year.
People turned on Buzz last year because the only consistent thing about his coaching was to play guys who were consistently unproductive and one dimensional. Meanwhile, he has much more talented players riding the bench, while the losses were stacking up. If your consistently unproductive guys aren't getting the job done, you are a hell of a lot better off playing the more talented guy that might* (in your eyes) be wildly inconsistent.
Guess what? You know where inconsistency originates from? Inconsistency. And Buzz was totally and complete inconsistent in his whole approach last year, other than for Derrick and Jake - the two guys who were the most limited. It was beyond crazy.
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Someone stated this here a number of months ago based on some very good intel from MU BB HQ, and was promptly attacked for it. Not what is said here, but who says the what.
He's going to be pretty good this year, people need to harbor their expectations, he's a longer term play. Agree with Rothstein.
People here were saying that they expect Luke Fischer to be one of the best bigs in the Big East this season? That's news to me, I'd love to see examples of those posts.
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People turned on Buzz last year because the only consistent thing about his coaching was to play guys who were consistently unproductive and one dimensional. Meanwhile, he has much more talented players riding the bench, while the losses were stacking up. If your consistently unproductive guys aren't getting the job done, you are a hell of a lot better off playing the more talented guy that might* (in your eyes) be wildly inconsistent.
Guess what? You know where inconsistency originates from? Inconsistency. And Buzz was totally and complete inconsistent in his whole approach last year, other than for Derrick and Jake - the two guys who were the most limited. It was beyond crazy.
You're not wrong, but Buzz always had crazy rotations and philosophies. When they worked, we all cheered and predicted multiple final 4's... when it didn't work, we turned on him instantly.
Fans are a finicky group.
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WOW. Sure, 17-15 was disappointing but people seem to forget that we were in almost every game last season. As a point guard that isn't the star of the team, isn't your job to put the team in position to win? How many L's would have been W's with a marginal shooting percentage improvement from derrick? Maybe he made that marginal improvement? How many L's would have been W's if we had someone at any position who could create his own shot? I don't think last years team was as broken as everyone seems to describe it as.
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WOW. Sure, 17-15 was disappointing but people seem to forget that we were in almost every game last season. As a point guard that isn't the star of the team, isn't your job to put the team in position to win? How many L's would have been W's with a marginal shooting percentage improvement from derrick? Maybe he made that marginal improvement? How many L's would have been W's if we had someone at any position who could create his own shot? I don't think last years team was as broken as everyone seems to describe it as.
You bring up a very good point. Last year's team lost games that in previous years Buzz's teams found ways to win. Lots of close losses. Frequently lacking the one big stop, or one big basket, or one big momentum play. Many theories have been put forward.
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You're not wrong, but Buzz always had crazy rotations and philosophies. When they worked, we all cheered and predicted multiple final 4's... when it didn't work, we turned on him instantly.
Fans are a finicky group.
Except the only area Buzz wouldn't get "crazy" last season was to deviate from playing Derrick and Jake more minutes than any two players on the team. This was the beef. He jacked around with all the other guys on the team, most of whom were more talented than Derrick and Jake - yet he just couldn't bring himself to radically change his starting backcourt, when it was plain as day the team wasn't going to win with those guys being 30+ minute per game players. And let's not even talk about benching Burton for 6:30 of the last 7:00 minutes of a must win game, in a game that Burton was dominating up to that point.
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And let's not even talk about benching Burton for 6:30 of the last 7:00 minutes of a must win game, in a game that Burton was dominating up to that point.
You posted that last week and it is wrong. I responded but you must not have seen it.
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=44873.msg653944#msg653944
BTW, I noticed that I said that Jamil missed two "lay-ups" but they were obviously free throws.
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This was the beef. He jacked around with all the other guys on the team
No he didn't. Otule and Gardner had always pretty much split time. Last year they did it again, though Gardner got more time than in the past. Jamil got big minutes from day one through the end of the season. Todd started out the season hurt, then got suspended. Once back to good health and good graces, he got big, consistent minutes too.
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You posted that last week and it is wrong. I responded but you must not have seen it.
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=44873.msg653944#msg653944
Wow. The truth is much different from the Ners narrative. Thanks for sharing.
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I had put Ners on ignore last year becuase of all this crap with Derrick and Dawson. It looks like it about time to do it again.
I will say this Derrick is not he greatest player that has ever donned a MU uniform and he is also most likely not the point guard that is going to lead a very successful team. Not sure that anyone would disagree with you on this .
The thing I cannot grasp though is the equal fervor that you argue for John Dawson. I am sorry but I have watched John Dawson every minute he played last year and saw very little to nothing that would make me think he was the answer. He had one horrible turnover after another, did not have the handle for a PG, and did nothing to create offense for his team. He also had very poor shot selection.
Not sure why you tie the 2 together, My guess is Dawson will get the least amount of minutes of any guard this year, and Buzz is no longer the coach. So maybe two coaches and a majority of fans are seeing something different than you.
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Except the only area Buzz wouldn't get "crazy" last season was to deviate from playing Derrick and Jake more minutes than any two players on the team. This was the beef. He jacked around with all the other guys on the team, most of whom were more talented than Derrick and Jake - yet he just couldn't bring himself to radically change his starting backcourt, when it was plain as day the team wasn't going to win with those guys being 30+ minute per game players. And let's not even talk about benching Burton for 6:30 of the last 7:00 minutes of a must win game, in a game that Burton was dominating up to that point.
I'm not disagreeing with you or getting into specifics. I'm just pointing out that in the grand scheme of things, Buzz was the same stubborn, quirky, sometimes brilliant, sometimes idiotic coach last year that he was in previous seasons.
It didn't work last season. No disagreement here.
But, fundamentally, he was the same guy that you were in love with in previous years.
Maybe you weren't in love with Buzz, but just in love with winning?
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I'm not disagreeing with you or getting into specifics. I'm just pointing out that in the grand scheme of things, Buzz was the same stubborn, quirky, sometimes brilliant, sometimes idiotic coach last year that he was in previous seasons.
It didn't work last season. No disagreement here.
But, fundamentally, he was the same guy that you were in love with in previous years.
Maybe you weren't in love with Buzz, but just in love with winning?
Of course your right, but...
Ners rationalized himself into a corner. He's was deeply, head over heels in love. Or so he thought. Then the object of his affection gained 10 lbs. and developed a small blemish. He wanted out, but wasn't ok with being perceived as a guy shallow enough to abandon his love over something like that. So...he insisted it wasn't the 10 lbs. or the blemish. His love had drastically changed. Really gone crazy. And betrayed him. He didn't throw his love under the bus, it was the other way around. Totally not logical, not believable, but that's his story and he's stickin' to it.
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I'm not disagreeing with you or getting into specifics. I'm just pointing out that in the grand scheme of things, Buzz was the same stubborn, quirky, sometimes brilliant, sometimes idiotic coach last year that he was in previous seasons.
It didn't work last season. No disagreement here.
But, fundamentally, he was the same guy that you were in love with in previous years.
Maybe you weren't in love with Buzz, but just in love with winning?
Buzz wasn't the same guy as in previous years...and his departure at the end of the season proved that. There are numerous sources that know he changed from a humble guy to an ego maniac who made people flush his toilet bowls of sh$t.
I loved the Buzz of the first 4-5 years, but when he became a brat even after winning the power struggle with Larry, and getting to work under athletic friendly admin of Wild and Cords, and still couldn't be happy - along with his bizarre coaching decisions of early last season that only intensified into conference play - yea, the love affair ended. He turned out to be a phony - and I don't have too much pride to say that my perceptions of him his first 4-5 years, ultimately turned out wrong as to what his ultimate character was: A thin skinned hypocrite that preached toughness yet ultimately exhibited little. At the first sign of discontent and adversity and turned and bailed (which I never thought I'd be thankful for, but am now GLAD he's gone.) We are better off with Wojo who will prove to be a far more level-headed guy, and a guy who seems to be able to recruit pretty well....and should be able to coach fairly well having played the game in college and having 13 years of an apprenticeship under one of the great coaches in the game.
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Buzz wasn't the same guy as in previous years...and his departure at the end of the season proved that. There are numerous sources that know he changed from a humble guy to an ego maniac who made people flush his toilet bowls of sh$t.
Buzz was never as humble as he was made out to be. Believe me.
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Buzz was never as humble as he was made out to be. Believe me.
I agree with you...he played possum quite a bit from day one....yet the level of his humility went from perhaps modestly humble in year 1, to insufferably egotistical by year 6.
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There are numerous sources that know he changed from a humble guy to an ego maniac who made people flush his toilet bowls of sh$t.
Really? He had "people" whose job it was "to flush his toilet bowls of sh$t"? You actually believe that? You are one gullible hater.
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Buzz wasn't the same guy as in previous years...and his departure at the end of the season proved that. There are numerous sources that know he changed from a humble guy to an ego maniac who made people flush his toilet bowls of sh$t.
I loved the Buzz of the first 4-5 years, but when he became a brat even after winning the power struggle with Larry, and getting to work under athletic friendly admin of Wild and Cords, and still couldn't be happy - along with his bizarre coaching decisions of early last season that only intensified into conference play - yea, the love affair ended. He turned out to be a phony - and I don't have too much pride to say that my perceptions of him his first 4-5 years, ultimately turned out wrong as to what his ultimate character was: A thin skinned hypocrite that preached toughness yet ultimately exhibited little. At the first sign of discontent and adversity and turned and bailed (which I never thought I'd be thankful for, but am now GLAD he's gone.) We are better off with Wojo who will prove to be a far more level-headed guy, and a guy who seems to be able to recruit pretty well....and should be able to coach fairly well having played the game in college and having 13 years of an apprenticeship under one of the great coaches in the game.
I don't disagree, and that's kind of my point.
In the first 4 or 5 years, you didn't see the cracks in the veneer because the dude was winning.
Fundamentally, I don't think Buzz Williams was any different the day he left MU. He's a fully formed personality. Lots of theories on life, basketball, etc. When he was winning, it seems like you bought into all of it. When Buzz had a losing season, then suddenly you think he's a phony.
Buzz was always phony baloney. You/we bought it because he was winning.
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Really? He had "people" whose job it was "to flush his toilet bowls of sh$t"? You actually believe that? You are one gullible hater.
Yes - it is true. You truly are one naive loyalist. It's actually comical how you can't find room to criticize Buzz. Yet you rail against Chicos and his constant defenses of Tom Crean - and now you are the same guy, but for Buzz.
Have you admired Buzz's statements since leaving MU, and his explanation? BAsically took a crap on the Big East, and its TV deal...and then goes on to say he was afraid he couldn't live up to the expectations of the MU fan base!!
At least Crean went to a blueblood program. Buzz? To an outhouse. And..to a place where he'll be able to function okay because little is expected of that program. Talk about a winner - hey I need a low bar set for me and my ego, because if too much is expected of me - I won't be able to hack it if I can't deliver on those expectations.
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You bring up a very good point. Last year's team lost games that in previous years Buzz's teams found ways to win. Lots of close losses. Frequently lacking the one big stop, or one big basket, or one big momentum play. Many theories have been put forward.
It is not DWil's poor shooting percentage in a vacuum that was the problem. It was our opponent's total and complete lack of respect for him that caused problems for everybody. Because you never had to guard him, you could mirror Jake Thomas everywhere on the floor, rendering him useless, and still double-team the lane without worry of repercussions. So now you have two guards who can't score and Gardner double-teamed before he even catches the ball without stretching the defense or causing defensive crazy rotations.
The fact that 3 or 4 times a game against good comp one of Derricks 9 million wing to wing passes was turned into a basket does not erase all of the above, which I think is the crux of Ners' argument. If our other players had more freedom of movement maybe those tight losses would have been wins and our big losses would have been the tight losses.
Substitute Todd Mayo for Jake Thomas and the problem remains the same, except Todd could drive on a tight defender, but still no space to operate.
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I don't disagree, and that's kind of my point.
In the first 4 or 5 years, you didn't see the cracks in the veneer because the dude was winning.
Fundamentally, I don't think Buzz Williams was any different the day he left MU. He's a fully formed personality. Lots of theories on life, basketball, etc. When he was winning, it seems like you bought into all of it. When Buzz had a losing season, then suddenly you think he's a phony.
Buzz was always phony baloney. You/we bought it because he was winning.
I agree with most of what you write - and think we all know Buzz wasn't the country bumpkin he tried to put himself off as being. We all recognized he was a sharp and calculating dude, who also authored some great stories and tales.
And I agree, so long as Buzz was winning, his schtick was all good. Yet when his schtick about preaching toughness and character gets tested for the first time, he ultimately reveals he had neither - that's where it turns. Hypocrites are the worst.
And because I believe Buzz is quite sharp, I also believe he knew what he was doing by continuing to play Derrick and Jake more minutes than any other guys on the team - that he was greatly hampering the team's ability to win - and since he left at the end of the year, he was ultimately checked out of MU and his petty ego certainly wouldn't be above giving Cords and Wild an F-You on the way out the door, for them not giving into all of his demands.
It makes ZERO sense as to why Buzz tried all kinds of other lineup tinkers, other than the 2 that 80% of the fan base were screaming for - other than out of sheer stubbornness, or out of a reality that he didn't care about winning. It was painfully obvious to even the most naive of basketball fans that it was going to be next to impossible to win, when you play 2 guys in the backcourt that are that limited.
Even more maddening of course was the ONE game he deviated from it - Georgetown - we get perhaps our best win of the year on the road - and the guy riding the bench for 30 minutes a game behind the other guy, was a key ingredient as to why we won. Think you might want to try it again, yet what happened? 8 minutes the next game against Nova. Wow.
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I agree with most of what you write - and think we all know Buzz wasn't the country bumpkin he tried to put himself off as being. We all recognized he was a sharp and calculating dude, who also authored some great stories and tales.
And I agree, so long as Buzz was winning, his schtick was all good. Yet when his schtick about preaching toughness and character gets tested for the first time, he ultimately reveals he had neither - that's where it turns. Hypocrites are the worst.
And because I believe Buzz is quite sharp, I also believe he knew what he was doing by continuing to play Derrick and Jake more minutes than any other guys on the team - that he was greatly hampering the team's ability to win - and since he left at the end of the year, he was ultimately checked out of MU and his petty ego certainly wouldn't be above giving Cords and Wild an F-You on the way out the door, for them not giving into all of his demands.
It makes ZERO sense as to why Buzz tried all kinds of other lineup tinkers, other than the 2 that 80% of the fan base were screaming for - other than out of sheer stubbornness, or out of a reality that he didn't care about winning. It was painfully obvious to even the most naive of basketball fans that it was going to be next to impossible to win, when you play 2 guys in the backcourt that are that limited.
Even more maddening of course was the ONE game he deviated from it - Georgetown - we get perhaps our best win of the year on the road - and the guy riding the bench for 30 minutes a game behind the other guy, was a key ingredient as to why we won. Think you might want to try it again, yet what happened? 8 minutes the next game against Nova. Wow.
I've come to accept the theory that Buzz was sticking it to the administration by playing the high character kids in place of those that were far more talented.
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I agree with most of what you write - and think we all know Buzz wasn't the country bumpkin he tried to put himself off as being. We all recognized he was a sharp and calculating dude, who also authored some great stories and tales.
And I agree, so long as Buzz was winning, his schtick was all good. Yet when his schtick about preaching toughness and character gets tested for the first time, he ultimately reveals he had neither - that's where it turns. Hypocrites are the worst.
And because I believe Buzz is quite sharp, I also believe he knew what he was doing by continuing to play Derrick and Jake more minutes than any other guys on the team - that he was greatly hampering the team's ability to win - and since he left at the end of the year, he was ultimately checked out of MU and his petty ego certainly wouldn't be above giving Cords and Wild an F-You on the way out the door, for them not giving into all of his demands.
It makes ZERO sense as to why Buzz tried all kinds of other lineup tinkers, other than the 2 that 80% of the fan base were screaming for - other than out of sheer stubbornness, or out of a reality that he didn't care about winning. It was painfully obvious to even the most naive of basketball fans that it was going to be next to impossible to win, when you play 2 guys in the backcourt that are that limited.
Even more maddening of course was the ONE game he deviated from it - Georgetown - we get perhaps our best win of the year on the road - and the guy riding the bench for 30 minutes a game behind the other guy, was a key ingredient as to why we won. Think you might want to try it again, yet what happened? 8 minutes the next game against Nova. Wow.
But again, Buzz was ALWAYS weird with rotations. That's not new.
He started Erik Williams over Jae. He claimed Derrick was better than Junior, but started Junior. He brought DJO off of the bench when he first arrived. He would do offense/defense subs with DG and CO. I believe Junior played fresh off of his injury as a frosh against syracuse, but then didn't play in the couple of games following (admittedly, I'm going from memory). He signed Mbao late, and played him, but Mbao never even scored in practice. Buzz played trent lockett a ton of minutes, and people were screaming for somebody else. The list goes on.
Buzz was always weird. I have a hard time believing he got weirder/more stubborn in the end just to stick it to MU.
Buzz was always weird and stubborn, but we liked it when it worked.
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But again, Buzz was ALWAYS weird with rotations. That's not new.
He started Erik Williams over Jae. He claimed Derrick was better than Junior, but started Junior. He brought DJO off of the bench when he first arrived. He would do offense/defense subs with DG and CO. I believe Junior played fresh off of his injury as a frosh against syracuse, but then didn't play in the couple of games following (admittedly, I'm going from memory). He signed Mbao late, and played him, but Mbao never even scored in practice. Buzz played trent lockett a ton of minutes, and people were screaming for somebody else. The list goes on.
Buzz was always weird. I have a hard time believing he got weirder/more stubborn in the end just to stick it to MU.
Buzz was always weird and stubborn, but we liked it when it worked.
Yes, Buzz did a few quirky things along the way as you mention. I don't disagree that he did do offense/defense substitutions at times with Otule and Gardner throughout their careers. I could live with that - as it was VERY situation specific - and it involved just those two guys.
Lockett? Yes, very frustrating early on, yet the guy had some pretty good skins on the wall coming into MU as a transfer senior. Lockett had shown he could play at a decent clip at high major level.
Jake and Derrick? Well, neither had much in the way of skins on the wall at this level.
As for claiming Derrick was better than Junior - well, that just goes to show what Buzz said and what was the reality weren't always congruent. Schtick. Motivational tactic. Etc.
Erik Williams over Jae to start? Sure - try to eliminate an early game foul for Jae. Yet, Jae played 30+ most nights. Burton didn't see 30 all year.
Mayo? Well..Todd was good enough to go 30+ against Ohio State early in the year, so he couldn't have been too injured. And, as we learned he was ONE minute late to practice that cost him the Wisconsin game. Could Todd have been played more than 23 minutes per game? Absolutely. Buzz chose not - other than the last 10 games of the year, and Mayo's performance went through the roof once he was given a fair chance to play through early mistakes and slow starts. Many guys need some run time/burn to get into their flow - Mayo was one of those guys. Some can just come in a game and immediately impact it - such as an ideal 6th man.
Refusing to change his backcourt last season was absolutely a case of being beyond stubborn. Either Buzz's ego was SO big that thought he could win with those guys playing 30 (even when he said we are playing 4 on 5), or he was sticking it to admin on his way out the door. Neither scenario boded well, and isn't what a balanced or high character individual would do.
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I've come to accept the theory that Buzz was sticking it to the administration by playing the high character kids in place of those that were far more talented.
Great Conclusion Pistol. It explains why he played Todd Mayo so much down the stretch and gave the bulk of the minutes at the 5 to Davante instead of Otule. I swear some of you guys "come to accept" things that are totally contradicted by the facts.
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Yes, Buzz did a few quirky things along the way as you mention. I don't disagree that he did do offense/defense substitutions at times with Otule and Gardner throughout their careers. I could live with that - as it was VERY situation specific - and it involved just those two guys.
Lockett? Yes, very frustrating early on, yet the guy had some pretty good skins on the wall coming into MU as a transfer senior. Lockett had shown he could play at a decent clip at high major level.
Jake and Derrick? Well, neither had much in the way of skins on the wall at this level.
As for claiming Derrick was better than Junior - well, that just goes to show what Buzz said and what was the reality weren't always congruent. Schtick. Motivational tactic. Etc.
Erik Williams over Jae to start? Sure - try to eliminate an early game foul for Jae. Yet, Jae played 30+ most nights. Burton didn't see 30 all year.
Mayo? Well..Todd was good enough to go 30+ against Ohio State early in the year, so he couldn't have been too injured. And, as we learned he was ONE minute late to practice that cost him the Wisconsin game. Could Todd have been played more than 23 minutes per game? Absolutely. Buzz chose not - other than the last 10 games of the year, and Mayo's performance went through the roof once he was given a fair chance to play through early mistakes and slow starts. Many guys need some run time/burn to get into their flow - Mayo was one of those guys. Some can just come in a game and immediately impact it - such as an ideal 6th man.
Refusing to change his backcourt last season was absolutely a case of being beyond stubborn. Either Buzz's ego was SO big that thought he could win with those guys playing 30 (even when he said we are playing 4 on 5), or he was sticking it to admin on his way out the door. Neither scenario boded well, and isn't what a balanced or high character individual would do.
Ya, I'm not really into debating all of the specifics... I'm just saying, Buzz was weird. He was always weird. We know his track record.
While playing Derrick and Jake a lot of minutes was generally ineffective, it wasn't necessarily out of character for Buzz Williams. Buzz always had a "Us vs the World", "I'll show 'em how smart I am!" approach.
We didn't mind when they were winning. When they were losing, we hated him for it.
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I've come to accept the theory that Buzz was sticking it to the administration by playing the high character kids in place of those that were far more talented.
That was my thinking as weel last year. He was going to "prove" to the administration that they had to let him get his kind of guys if they wanted a winner.
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That was my thinking as weel last year. He was going to "prove" to the administration that they had to let him get his kind of guys if they wanted a winner.
Thats an awfully big assumption. But with that being said I dont like how the admin pretty much put the ax on JUCOs.
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Great Conclusion Pistol. It explains why he played Todd Mayo so much down the stretch and gave the bulk of the minutes at the 5 to Davante instead of Otule. I swear some of you guys "come to accept" things that are totally contradicted by the facts.
How do you reconcile these facts:
Leading minute getter at PG that causes you to play 4 on 5 per Buzz's words and posts:
1-14 3 point shooting
44% FT shooting
Wouldn't shoot outside of 4 feet from basket unless at end of shot clock situation..
When the backup triples the career 3 point makes of the incumbent junior while shooting 4 times better percentage, and shoots 80% from the FT line...and at least HAS to be guarded everywhere on the offensive end of the floor...while also being the second best defender on the team in Per Possession Analysis?
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How do you reconcile these facts:
Leading minute getter at PG that causes you to play 4 on 5 per Buzz's words and posts:
1-14 3 point shooting
44% FT shooting
Wouldn't shoot outside of 4 feet from basket unless at end of shot clock situation..
When the backup triples the career 3 point makes of the incumbent junior while shooting 4 times better percentage, and shoots 80% from the FT line...and at least HAS to be guarded everywhere on the offensive end of the floor...while also being the second best defender on the team in Per Possession Analysis?
Well that moratorium lasted a few weeks longer than the last one. Progress.
(Are you ever going to address the point that you were wrong about Deonte's playing time at the end of the Xavier game?)
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To me it has always been to survive this season and look forward to the next season. As long as Ellenson commits, I do not really care about this season as my expectations are very low for this season.
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That was my thinking as weel last year. He was going to "prove" to the administration that they had to let him get his kind of guys if they wanted a winner.
He might have been wrong. The world will never know. But Buzz 100% believed that playing Derrick and Jake was the best chance for Marquette to win. I didn't say that was a correct belief. But Buzz thought it was the only way to win.
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He might have been wrong. The world will never know. But Buzz 100% believed that playing Derrick and Jake was the best chance for Marquette to win. I didn't say that was a correct belief. But Buzz thought it was the only way to win.
If Buzz thought the best way to win last year was to play JJJ or JD more, they would have played more. I reject elaborate conspiracy theories. It looked to me like Buzz was coaching the exact same way he had the previous 5 years, doing whatever he could to win every game.
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He might have been wrong. The world will never know. But Buzz 100% believed that playing Derrick and Jake was the best chance for Marquette to win. I didn't say that was a correct belief. But Buzz thought it was the only way to win.
I don't completely doubt what you say. I think it was more a combination of his thoughts on winning plus a stubbornness about doing it his way regardless of what the administration wanted from the players that represent MU.
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What I never understood was why did he go away from starting Burton and JJJ. Roughly halfway through the Big East season when MU was struggling he started both JJJ and Burton, which seemed to get the team going and we got to 9-6. I do not remember if JJJ started only one game, but it seemed like a positive move by Buzz at the time and then he quickly reverted to the original lineup. It was almost like he was throwing the towel in on the season by starting the freshmen, but when it worked he did not want to depend on them.
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What I never understood was why did he go away from starting Burton and JJJ. Roughly halfway through the Big East season when MU was struggling he started both JJJ and Burton, which seemed to get the team going and we got to 9-6. I do not remember if JJJ started only one game, but it seemed like a positive move by Buzz at the time and then he quickly reverted to the original lineup. It was almost like he was throwing the towel in on the season by starting the freshmen, but when it worked he did not want to depend on them.
I remember that game. That was the most energy I remember from the student section all year after the Ohio St. game.
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What I never understood was why did he go away from starting Burton and JJJ. Roughly halfway through the Big East season when MU was struggling he started both JJJ and Burton, which seemed to get the team going and we got to 9-6. I do not remember if JJJ started only one game, but it seemed like a positive move by Buzz at the time and then he quickly reverted to the original lineup. It was almost like he was throwing the towel in on the season by starting the freshmen, but when it worked he did not want to depend on them.
Deonte I will agree with, but if you go back and look at JJJ, he didn't do a lot once conference season came around. I mean double digit minutes in a few games with very little production. My recollection of him being passive on the perimeter matches that. I simply don't think he was ready, especially on the defensive end.
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I think people tend to blame Derrick for everything that went wrong last year.
I don't blame Derrick for anything. Derrick was just being as good as he can be. I blame the coach for failing perhaps his most important duty: Putting each player in a position to succeed.
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What I never understood was why did he go away from starting Burton and JJJ. Roughly halfway through the Big East season when MU was struggling he started both JJJ and Burton, which seemed to get the team going and we got to 9-6. I do not remember if JJJ started only one game, but it seemed like a positive move by Buzz at the time and then he quickly reverted to the original lineup. It was almost like he was throwing the towel in on the season by starting the freshmen, but when it worked he did not want to depend on them
This...but more so, that when it worked...it proved all those who were arguing for starting the freshman and playing them more right...and Buzz wrong. His ego couldn't take it. Also explains why after Dawson played a huge hand in our victory against GTown, Buzz simply couldn't deal with it then gave him 8 minutes next game, and he never again got anything close to 30...
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Well that moratorium lasted a few weeks longer than the last one. Progress.
(Are you ever going to address the point that you were wrong about Deonte's playing time at the end of the Xavier game?)
What would be real progress would be if the few idiots that continue to try to make excuses for Buzz's coaching decisions last season would for once acquiesce and just acknowledge the real reality- that the team didn't stand a snowballs chance in hell of winning at a decent clip with Derrick and Jake getting more minutes than any other players on the team.
I mean check out my signature, we had idiots like BrewCity trying to float such genius theories as Derrick being better for the team than Cadougan.
On the Burton point, where are you getting your data? Please link which source you are referencing as far as Burton's entry/exit from the Xavier game? I'll gladly review the source and then do a little research on my own to verify your point is actually correct - which I don't think it is.
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It's always fun when I'm away from Scoop for an hour or two and come back to see certain threads have grown from 2 pages to 6 in that short matter of time. A pretty simple guess at what happened over the course of those 4 pages comes down to one of 2 things about 99.8% of the time this happens. Either 1) Ners has found a way to turn the thread into a pissing match about how bad Derrick Wilson is and how Magic Dawson is the 6'2" version of Hall of Famer Magic Johnson but only he knows it because only he has played on a high school varsity basketball team in his life or 2) Chicos has taken a thread completely off topic and started telling everyone who will listen how intelligent he is, how many famous people he knows, how it's not what was said here but it's who said something here, how he's a victim and people personally attack him (after he has called out their names on here), and how great of a coach Tom Crean is, especially for taking Dwyane Wade from unwanted by mid-majors to NBA Hall of Famer.
At least it makes things easy to go through. All it takes is to see whether 80% of the pages are filled with Chicos or Ners and you can understand the entire 4-6 pages that have been built in 2 hours narrowed down to 15 seconds.
In this case, it appears option number 1 is a winner. If I missed anything beyond, "Derrick sucks! Magic, I mean John, needs to see the court more! I played basketball in high school, you're an idiot!" please inform me. Thank you!
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What would be real progress would be if the few idiots that continue to try to make excuses for Buzz's coaching decisions last season would for once acquiesce and just acknowledge the real reality-
So, in other words, if everyone would just give up their opinions and agree with you, you would stop viewing them as idiots and adversaries and move on. Sad.
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So, in other words, if everyone would just give up their opinions and agree with you, you would stop viewing them as idiots and adversaries and move on. Sad.
That Sir, could be said about numerous posters here. Sigh....can't...sigh..can't we all just get along?
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So, in other words, if everyone would just give up their opinions and agree with you, you would stop viewing them as idiots and adversaries and move on. Sad.
You miss the point - the point was that these discussions continue to get provoked by about the same 5 posters who all of last year stood by Buzz's side, and even after PLENTY of proof that Buzz's coaching decisions last year were a train wreck - they still somehow try to defend Buzz's coaching last season. Buzz was a disaster last year. Period.
I mean I think the 3rd post in this thread was get an ambulance to Ners house due to Rothstein saying Derrick would start. And these 5 posters act all up in arms that once again the topic of Derrick is getting discussed...Pretty funny actually.
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What would be real progress would be if the few idiots that continue to try to make excuses for Buzz's coaching decisions last season would for once acquiesce and just acknowledge the real reality- that the team didn't stand a snowballs chance in hell of winning at a decent clip with Derrick and Jake getting more minutes than any other players on the team.
I mean check out my signature, we had idiots like BrewCity trying to float such genius theories as Derrick being better for the team than Cadougan.
On the Burton point, where are you getting your data? Please link which source you are referencing as far as Burton's entry/exit from the Xavier game? I'll gladly review the source and then do a little research on my own to verify your point is actually correct - which I don't think it is.
Easy there, Kemosabe. I come in peace.
There is a lot more common ground here than you think.
#1 Brew City isn't even on this board anymore, so just forget it. You don't need to carry that baggage.
#2 Nobody in this thread has said that Jake & Wilson were a good combo. What people have said is that BUZZ WILLIAMS thought they were his best combo available. Big difference. Let's be clear about that.
#3 Buzz was/is a wildcard.
#4 Buzz did a poor job with his rotations last season.
The only difference of opinion is WHY Buzz did a poor job. It seems to me that Buzz's rotations had more to do with Buzz thinking he's smarter than everybody else. Buzz thought he could weather the storm with his guys and prove everybody wrong. He'd done it in the past, and he thought he could do it again.
You think Buzz intentionally tanked as a statement to the administration. (correct me if I'm wrong).
That's it. Skip all of the minutia, guys. Look at the big picture.
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On the Burton point, where are you getting your data? Please link which source you are referencing as far as Burton's entry/exit from the Xavier game? I'll gladly review the source and then do a little research on my own to verify your point is actually correct - which I don't think it is.
http://statsheet.com/mcb/games/2014/03/13/marquette-65-xavier-68/play_by_play
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You think Buzz intentionally tanked as a statement to the administration. (correct me if I'm wrong).
Exactly. Ners can't believe that anyone with even a little knowledge of basketball would play Derrick Wilson over John Dawson. So, there were only two possible explanations: either a) Buzz knew nothing about basketball or b) Buzz was purposely throwing games. The real answer, that Buzz just disagreed with Ners and thought Derrick gave MU a better chance to win games than John Dawson, was deemed impossible.
His conspiracy theory is, of course, totally nuts, but it serves his purpose. He can say that Buzz knew that Dawson was a better option than Derrick but he was trying to lose.
It will be interesting to watch things unfold this year. Wojo has already named Derrick a team captain and most assume he'll get more minutes than Dawson. If that happens, will Ners decide that Wojo knows nothing about basketball or that he's intentionally throwing games? We know the answer can't be that he's doing it because he thinks Derrick gives him a better chance to win games. This should be fun.
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It's always fun when I'm away from Scoop for an hour or two and come back to see certain threads have grown from 2 pages to 6 in that short matter of time. A pretty simple guess at what happened over the course of those 4 pages comes down to one of 2 things about 99.8% of the time this happens. Either 1) Ners has found a way to turn the thread into a pissing match about how bad Derrick Wilson is and how Magic Dawson is the 6'2" version of Hall of Famer Magic Johnson but only he knows it because only he has played on a high school varsity basketball team in his life or 2) Chicos has taken a thread completely off topic and started telling everyone who will listen how intelligent he is, how many famous people he knows, how it's not what was said here but it's who said something here, how he's a victim and people personally attack him (after he has called out their names on here), and how great of a coach Tom Crean is, especially for taking Dwyane Wade from unwanted by mid-majors to NBA Hall of Famer.
At least it makes things easy to go through. All it takes is to see whether 80% of the pages are filled with Chicos or Ners and you can understand the entire 4-6 pages that have been built in 2 hours narrowed down to 15 seconds.
In this case, it appears option number 1 is a winner. If I missed anything beyond, "Derrick sucks! Magic, I mean John, needs to see the court more! I played basketball in high school, you're an idiot!" please inform me. Thank you!
+1 trillion