Justin

[Uncle Rico]

OK, but that's always been the case.  I just don't see how NIL changes that.

It’s a straw man argument against players getting compensated.  This weird belief players only played for the jersey and not themselves as amateurs.  It’s always been a stupid argument about the moral superiority of the college game

[NCMUFan]

I am not for or against.
I do not know if it will help, hurt or keep the same quality there.
I say let it happen.
If CBB ends up in a dumpster, no one could have predicted it and we just shrug our shoulders.

If the emphasis is money though, I have to believe schools with the biggest coffers are going to win big.  Myself, giving money to NIL so a Marquette star stays a Marquette star is ridiculous.  It just is not that important to me.  But what the heck, successful coaches shop for schools that can offer them bigger paychecks why not the players.

[MuggsyB]

It’s a straw man argument against players getting compensated.  This weird belief players only played for the jersey and not themselves as amateurs.  It’s always been a stupid argument about the moral superiority of the college game

I think the discussion is much more nuanced than that and don't agree with aspects of your general conclusion.  The fact is even the greatest NBA players, if they were lucky enough to get to a F4 or go deep in the NCAA tournament, much more often than not,  revere those experiences far more than their pro career.   Now because of the new transfer rules, things have definitely changed.  But for those fortunate enough to play high D-1 basketball I don't think they would trade those years when they reminisce as old men.  Also, the vast majority of people have college friends for life.  The social dynamic is much different sitting on an NBA or pro bench.  I'm not saying the college game is "morally superior" but I do think internally it means more to a high percentage of ballers.

[muwarrior69]

Keep pounding on that dead horse. You are asking for a guy who has had injuries in 7 of the last 8 years to keep firing at the beginning of the season after a short Spring training.

Mind boggling.

Then why pitch him at all if he may injure himself.

[Uncle Rico]

Then why pitch him at all if he may injure himself.

Why take precautions? 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Then why pitch him at all if he may injure himself.

1: "I won't drive if I have to wear a seat belt!"

2: "Seat Belts reduce the risk of injury in a car accident"

1: "But you can still get injured if you wear a seat belt, why wear one at all?"

2: ???

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I think the discussion is much more nuanced than that and don't agree with aspects of your general conclusion.  The fact is even the greatest NBA players, if they were lucky enough to get to a F4 or go deep in the NCAA tournament, much more often than not,  revere those experiences far more than their pro career.   Now because of the new transfer rules, things have definitely changed.  But for those fortunate enough to play high D-1 basketball I don't think they would trade those years when they reminisce as old men.  Also, the vast majority of people have college friends for life.  The social dynamic is much different sitting on an NBA or pro bench.  I'm not saying the college game is "morally superior" but I do think internally it means more to a high percentage of ballers.

You may be right, but what does this have to do with anything being discussed in this thread?

Also, are you close enough with a significant amount of "greatest NBA players" to know that "much more often than not" they revere their time in college more than they do in the pros?

Also, even if time in college does "mean more to a high percentage of ballers", do you think that high percentage of ballers also wishes they could have gotten paid for their NIL in college? Cause if the answer is yes, then your point is irrelevant. If the answer is no, you're lying to yourself.

Again, I get the competitive balance concerns. They are logical, they make sense. I do not get this idea that college basketball is somehow better because the players are unpaid.

[tower912]

Then why pitch him at all if he may injure himself.

You pitch him so you have a good chance to win.   You pull him because you want him around in October.

[MuggsyB]

You may be right, but what does this have to do with anything being discussed in this thread?

Also, are you close enough with a significant amount of "greatest NBA players" to know that "much more often than not" they revere their time in college more than they do in the pros?

Also, even if time in college does "mean more to a high percentage of ballers", do you think that high percentage of ballers also wishes they could have gotten paid for their NIL in college? Cause if the answer is yes, then your point is irrelevant. If the answer is no, you're lying to yourself.

Again, I get the competitive balance concerns. They are logical, they make sense. I do not get this idea that college basketball is somehow better because the players are unpaid.

I never wrote it was "better".  I do think they play harder night in and night out.  As far as getting paid the competitive balance is a concern among several other concerns.  It could lead to better overall talent in college hoops.  At the same time if a player is offered 2, 3, 4, 5 times the money to transfer that's when things could really go South imo.  I think before we draw clear conclusions we have to wait and see how this plays out.

[GoldenEagles03]

Via Jeff Goodman

"Agents ALL OVER these college guys for NIL because they can make 15-20 percent off NIL as opposed to 4 percent off salary."

[MuggsyB]

Via Jeff Goodman

"Agents ALL OVER these college guys for NIL because they can make 15-20 percent off NIL as opposed to 4 percent off salary."

Great. 

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

  The fact is even the greatest NBA players, if they were lucky enough to get to a F4 or go deep in the NCAA tournament, much more often than not,  revere those experiences far more than their pro career.   

They do?  You’re just going to assert this as fact?

[oilcan]

Long thread that started with Justin. But it certainly has moved away into what is college bb and how will it evolve after NIL. I love college bb because it is played by amateurs. AND most importantly, because I spent my childhood out on the drive way and in the parks shooting buckets with my friends. And every fall is like the fantasy football draft. You start over, always with high expectations. We all know other programs have certain advantages. They're always in the top twenty. But this year we saw the #1 team in the county get run out by Arkansas. And we have seen Jay Wright cut down the nets twice. You can't change schools if you're an alumni or a kid who grew up in Wisconsin. We're always going to be underdogs. And I will root for the underdog until the day I die.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Long thread that started with Justin. But it certainly has moved away into what is college bb and how will it evolve after NIL. I love college bb because it is played by amateurs. AND most importantly, because I spent my childhood out on the drive way and in the parks shooting buckets with my friends. And every fall is like the fantasy football draft. You start over, always with high expectations. We all know other programs have certain advantages. They're always in the top twenty. But this year we saw the #1 team in the county get run out by Arkansas. And we have seen Jay Wright cut down the nets twice. You can't change schools if you're an alumni or a kid who grew up in Wisconsin. We're always going to be underdogs. And I will root for the underdog until the day I die.

Why do you like watching amateurs? 

[oilcan]

I think it's because college players are less confident that they will make money playing professionally, so they play with more passion and dare I say reckless abandon. Jump on the floor when there's a lose ball. Take a charge, even if it's hard. Run, run, run. And don't ever quit even if you're tired. That's the hardest thing about college bb. You get tired and torn down and you have to keep going and get it up and get the rebound and if it bounces off the rim you have to get up again. Is there anything more rewarding than saying you worked your arse off and won?  Sorry. No one want's to hear my lecture. But it's a lesson in life. Work hard. Succeed. Give me 5 kids who want to win over eight guys who want a briefcase full of cash. We'll meet you at center court and we won't be scared.

[panda]

Lots of nba guys looking very uninterested tonight. Probably too worried about their “bling” and automobiles.

[MuggsyB]

Lots of nba guys looking very uninterested tonight. Probably too worried about their “bling” and automobiles.

This is not the regular season panda. 

[panda]

This is not the regular season panda.

Do teams get to the post season by not caring ?

[MuggsyB]

Do teams get to the post season by not caring ?

No, but there are games where guys sit out as well as those where they go through the motions for various reasons.

[JWags85]

Long thread that started with Justin. But it certainly has moved away into what is college bb and how will it evolve after NIL. I love college bb because it is played by amateurs. AND most importantly, because I spent my childhood out on the drive way and in the parks shooting buckets with my friends. And every fall is like the fantasy football draft. You start over, always with high expectations. We all know other programs have certain advantages. They're always in the top twenty. But this year we saw the #1 team in the county get run out by Arkansas. And we have seen Jay Wright cut down the nets twice. You can't change schools if you're an alumni or a kid who grew up in Wisconsin. We're always going to be underdogs. And I will root for the underdog until the day I die.

Is Jay Wright some miracle story?  Some plucky underdog?  He coached a school that had a title, multiple FFs, and 8 modern era E8s before he arrived and was routinely a top 10 or 20 team for a decade before he won a title.  They were the team with "advantages" that were always in the top 20 you mention.

Its crazy how NBA players never played driveway ball with their friends.  Its been only about money since they were 6 years old.

I think it's because college players are less confident that they will make money playing professionally, so they play with more passion and dare I say reckless abandon. Jump on the floor when there's a lose ball. Take a charge, even if it's hard. Run, run, run. And don't ever quit even if you're tired. That's the hardest thing about college bb. You get tired and torn down and you have to keep going and get it up and get the rebound and if it bounces off the rim you have to get up again. Is there anything more rewarding than saying you worked your arse off and won?  Sorry. No one want's to hear my lecture. But it's a lesson in life. Work hard. Succeed. Give me 5 kids who want to win over eight guys who want a briefcase full of cash. We'll meet you at center court and we won't be scared.

Tell me you don't watch the NBA without telling me you don't watch the NBA.  All those NBA players definitely quit the minute they are tired.  They have big paychecks and don't even work in between games, just eat caviar and champagne and chill.  They have no work ethic or hustle like college kids.

You take the "gritty" winners who have no chance of playing pro ball, much less the NBA, and I'll take the 5-6 18 year old kids who play for G League Ignite instead of college...and you'll get TROUNCED.

I bet you thought Tim Tebow would be a great NFL QB too cause he "wanted it more" and just had such a "will to win" and work ethic.

[oilcan]

We all agree that college programs make millions of dollars and the players never got a fair share of the pie. and now there's NIL. I agree players should be compensated. Some of you got scholarships, probably not full rides like our bb heroes at MU. Many business majors went on to honor their school. And lawyers and such. And they couldn't imagine ever dunking a basketball. Name me one player in the years around 95 or 96.   BUT we should always acknowledge a brave Warrior like James Foley. RIP. That is who we are. 

[rocky_warrior]

Name me one player in the years around 95 or 96. 

Pieper, is that you?

[THRILLHO]

No, but there are games where guys sit out as well as those where they go through the motions for various reasons.

To the extent this is true it's because the NBA season is too long. Make it thirty games like college basketball and you'd see a big difference.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I think it's because college players are less confident that they will make money playing professionally, so they play with more passion and dare I say reckless abandon. Jump on the floor when there's a lose ball. Take a charge, even if it's hard. Run, run, run. And don't ever quit even if you're tired. That's the hardest thing about college bb. You get tired and torn down and you have to keep going and get it up and get the rebound and if it bounces off the rim you have to get up again. Is there anything more rewarding than saying you worked your arse off and won?  Sorry. No one want's to hear my lecture. But it's a lesson in life. Work hard. Succeed. Give me 5 kids who want to win over eight guys who want a briefcase full of cash. We'll meet you at center court and we won't be scared.

I don’t see any difference in hustle or energy in college v NBA. I think yours is a tired narrative that isn’t accurate

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

To the extent this is true it's because the NBA season is too long. Make it thirty games like college basketball and you'd see a big difference.

The NBA regular season is a grind and yeah players sit out games from time to time. But the “go through the motions” is just bad analysis.