NFC North / NFL Thread 2018-19

[MU82]

If Rodgers doesn't retire with at least two rings, it will be tragic.

Dan Marino winning zero Super Bowls was tragic.

[mu03eng]

Dan Marino winning zero Super Bowls was tragic.

I don't disagree

[cheebs09]

Dan Marino winning zero Super Bowls was tragic.

Well, he’d probably have one if he held the laces out. So it’s really his fault.

[tower912]

Jake Ryan done for the year.

[wadesworld]

Jake Ryan done for the year.

We made it like 4 days into training camp before we lost a defensive starter for the year. That’s pretty good for the Packers.

[barfolomew]

Well, he’d probably have one if he held the laces out. So it’s really his fault.

[barfolomew]

A pop-up window on the Chi Trib website (go figure) just started playing the 50 greatest Barry Sanders runs of all time.
After watching them all, I realized that if horse collar tackles had been illegal in Barry's day, the Lions would have had about 70 extra yards of offense per game.

[tower912]

I don't know that Barry was the GOAT, bit you can't have the debate without including him.  Walter, Jim Brown, Sayers, Dickerson.... yeah, Barry belongs in the conversation.

[jesmu84]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/ct-spt-bears-roquan-smith-contract-20180801-story,amp.html?__twitter_impression=true

[GGGG]

Drew Magary on this upcoming season.  He's probably right about most of this.

https://www.gq.com/story/the-nfl-isnt-ready-for-how-big-of-a-disaster-this-season-will-be

"And the worst part is that all of this was preventable. The NFL could have a simplified rulebook and it could have a consistently entertaining on-field field product if it had worked with its players and if it took on SOME liability for the dangers of the sport. And the NFL could have avoided this anthem crap entirely if they had worked with the players to institute an anthem policy everyone could live with (or better yet, if they ditched the goddamn pageantry altogether).

They have done neither of these things, because the NFL possesses a near superhuman tone-deafness and because it is terminally incapable of taking away the correct lessons from a PR crisis. And both the players and you, the viewer at home, will bear the brunt of that idiocy. The result is a coming 2018 season that promises to be more divisive and slovenly than any that came before it."

[MerrittsMustache]

Drew Magary on this upcoming season.  He's probably right about most of this.

https://www.gq.com/story/the-nfl-isnt-ready-for-how-big-of-a-disaster-this-season-will-be

"And the worst part is that all of this was preventable. The NFL could have a simplified rulebook and it could have a consistently entertaining on-field field product if it had worked with its players and if it took on SOME liability for the dangers of the sport. And the NFL could have avoided this anthem crap entirely if they had worked with the players to institute an anthem policy everyone could live with (or better yet, if they ditched the goddamn pageantry altogether).

He raises some solid points, particularly about the rulebook. However, he's wrong about the bolded part. It would be impossible to institute a policy that "everyone could live with" because the players don't have a united front and not all of them are protesting for the same reasons. After Trump made his "SOB" rant, 200+ players protested, which was more a protest directed at the President as opposed to a protest of racial injustice. Even The Players Coalition imploded because they weren't aligned. Don't get me wrong, the NFL botched the anthem issue from the beginning and basically every step along the way since then, but it's very hard to appease a group that isn't aligned on their "demands."

As for the new helmet rule...it's awful. Watch some of these videos. Seriously, if they didn't circle the players engaging in a newly illegal hit, most of them would literally look like a standard NFL play. 

https://nflcommunications.com/Pages/Fact-Sheet---Use-of-the-Helmet.aspx

[Jockey]

He raises some solid points, particularly about the rulebook. However, he's wrong about the bolded part. It would be impossible to institute a policy that "everyone could live with" because the players don't have a united front and not all of them are protesting for the same reasons. After Trump made his "SOB" rant, 200+ players protested, which was more a protest directed at the President as opposed to a protest of racial injustice. Even The Players Coalition imploded because they weren't aligned. Don't get me wrong, the NFL botched the anthem issue from the beginning and basically every step along the way since then, but it's very hard to appease a group that isn't aligned on their "demands."

As for the new helmet rule...it's awful. Watch some of these videos. Seriously, if they didn't circle the players engaging in a newly illegal hit, most of them would literally look like a standard NFL play. 

https://nflcommunications.com/Pages/Fact-Sheet---Use-of-the-Helmet.aspx

We thought the "catch rule" was a joke, but it will pale in comparison to what happens this year with the new helmet rule.

[GGGG]

He raises some solid points, particularly about the rulebook. However, he's wrong about the bolded part. It would be impossible to institute a policy that "everyone could live with" because the players don't have a united front and not all of them are protesting for the same reasons. After Trump made his "SOB" rant, 200+ players protested, which was more a protest directed at the President as opposed to a protest of racial injustice. Even The Players Coalition imploded because they weren't aligned. Don't get me wrong, the NFL botched the anthem issue from the beginning and basically every step along the way since then, but it's very hard to appease a group that isn't aligned on their "demands."

That's a good point.  The NFL should have just changed the whole pre-game to keep the players in the locker rooms.  If they had done that two years ago, they would have received initial flak but the issue would be dead by now.  That's how it used to be and is how college does it now.

They should look at college, and here is a good article as to why.

https://sports.yahoo.com/college-footballs-pregame-including-national-anthem-offers-better-fan-experience-wont-nfl-follow-201845084.html

"You know who wasn’t standing alongside him? Any of the Alabama or Georgia football players because as is the case with the vast majority of college teams (including all of the SEC, Big 12 and Pac-12), the players remain in the locker room during the pregame anthem.

The reason is, generally, two-fold, and neither is about avoiding protests. One is tradition; the players never have been on the field for the anthem and no one has seen a reason to change that.

The second is what’s called “game presentation.” Colleges do a far better job than the NFL in pregame hype and part of that is building crowd energy and noise into a crescendo that peaks the moment the ball is kicked off. It’s expertly choreographed.

As such, it’s better to get the anthem and other quieter items out of the way (they’ll do the dull coin flip with a couple of early arriving captains). Then, through an elaborate process that can take multiple songs, videos and an extended amount of time – including rituals as diverse as touching a rock and running down a hill or following a charging buffalo onto the field – they unleash the head coach and team. The crowd goes nuts. They kick off.

It’s awesome. The passion and pageantry is, quite often, the best part of the game."

[DegenerateDish]

For the reasons stated above, I can't recall an upcoming NFL season I've been less enthusiastic about.

[mu03eng]

The leadership in the NFL constantly challenges my belief that meritocracy and capitalism will correct most issues. I have no idea how anyone: owners, commissioner, PR head, etc can possibly be this dumb. They are going to kill the NFL as a national pastime and pretty quick too. There are three major areas of concern if they would be willing to make a firm decision in concern with the players on (player safety, simplifying the rule book, and the anthem stuff) they would be in great shape. Instead they try to walk some sort of wishy washy line that makes no one happy, it's mind boggling.

I'm sure some will view this as offensive or racist or political but I think it needs to be said....it's almost like the NFL thinks there is some monolithic majority group of white, alpha male, fervent patriotic, mouth breather types that is it's core constituency to the exclusion of all else. I'm sure there is a rabid group of fans that fall in that bucket but it is far from the majority of the fans and the NFL is seemingly hell bent for leather to reduce it's fanbase to just that group. It's the only thing that makes any logical sense to as to why they make the decisions they do.

[MerrittsMustache]

The leadership in the NFL constantly challenges my belief that meritocracy and capitalism will correct most issues. I have no idea how anyone: owners, commissioner, PR head, etc can possibly be this dumb. They are going to kill the NFL as a national pastime and pretty quick too. There are three major areas of concern if they would be willing to make a firm decision in concern with the players on (player safety, simplifying the rule book, and the anthem stuff) they would be in great shape. Instead they try to walk some sort of wishy washy line that makes no one happy, it's mind boggling.

I'm sure some will view this as offensive or racist or political but I think it needs to be said....it's almost like the NFL thinks there is some monolithic majority group of white, alpha male, fervent patriotic, mouth breather types that is it's core constituency to the exclusion of all else. I'm sure there is a rabid group of fans that fall in that bucket but it is far from the majority of the fans and the NFL is seemingly hell bent for leather to reduce it's fanbase to just that group. It's the only thing that makes any logical sense to as to why they make the decisions they do.

If that was the case, the NFL would ignore on-field safety concerns, fine/suspend all players who don't stand for the anthem and become 'Murica's National Pastime! (fires shotgun into the air)

I actually think the NFL is doing the opposite by trying to appease their entire diverse fanbase, which, as you stated, is making them "walk some sort of wishy washy line that makes no one happy." They want to protect the players from violence...while cashing in on violence. They want the players to stand for the anthem...but also respect their right to protest peacefully. They want to come down hard on players for off-field violations...depending on the general public's response to the transgression. There's no consistency in what they do and the relationship between players and management is terrible, especially compared to the NBA and MLB...leagues that guarantee contracts and do more to market their star players. $$$$$

[GGGG]

The leadership in the NFL constantly challenges my belief that meritocracy and capitalism will correct most issues. I have no idea how anyone: owners, commissioner, PR head, etc can possibly be this dumb. They are going to kill the NFL as a national pastime and pretty quick too. There are three major areas of concern if they would be willing to make a firm decision in concern with the players on (player safety, simplifying the rule book, and the anthem stuff) they would be in great shape. Instead they try to walk some sort of wishy washy line that makes no one happy, it's mind boggling.

I'm sure some will view this as offensive or racist or political but I think it needs to be said....it's almost like the NFL thinks there is some monolithic majority group of white, alpha male, fervent patriotic, mouth breather types that is it's core constituency to the exclusion of all else. I'm sure there is a rabid group of fans that fall in that bucket but it is far from the majority of the fans and the NFL is seemingly hell bent for leather to reduce it's fanbase to just that group. It's the only thing that makes any logical sense to as to why they make the decisions they do.

I have never seen an organization blunder simply PR like this one does.  I think the biggest problem is that Roger Goodell is terrible at his job.  He's done a good job at enriching the owners, which I'm not sure he should get much credit for anyway, and he's basically their stooge.  So they keep him around.  But he's not a visionary a la Rozelle.  And he's not a guy who will crack the whip when he thinks the owners need to get in line a la Tagliabue.

I honestly think the reason they blunder so often is because things were so good for so long, that they can't change their world view.  They simple cannot comprehend that people have alternatives other than the NFL.  They haven't evolved as their audience has evolved. 

[mu03eng]

If that was the case, the NFL would ignore on-field safety concerns, fine/suspend all players who don't stand for the anthem and become 'Murica's National Pastime! (fires shotgun into the air)

I actually think the NFL is doing the opposite by trying to appease their entire diverse fanbase, which, as you stated, is making them "walk some sort of wishy washy line that makes no one happy." They want to protect the players from violence...while cashing in on violence. They want the players to stand for the anthem...but also respect their right to protest peacefully. They want to come down hard on players for off-field violations...depending on the general public's response to the transgression. There's no consistency in what they do and the relationship between players and management is terrible, especially compared to the NBA and MLB...leagues that guarantee contracts and do more to market their star players. $$$$$

Perhaps agree to disagree. IMO the NFL is doing the minimum it can to appease folks not in the grouping I described. That is literally why the anthem protest issue is still an issue

[MerrittsMustache]

Perhaps agree to disagree. IMO the NFL is doing the minimum it can to appease folks not in the grouping I described. That is literally why the anthem protest issue is still an issue

Care to expand? Just curious as to where you're coming from on that.

[mu03eng]

Care to expand? Just curious as to where you're coming from on that.

It moves very slow on everything (it could have acted on concussions at least 3 years sooner but #touchfootballsucks cries), every step they take has one firmly planted in the old school and whenever it is a topic of purely social concern (DV, anthem protest, etc) their position change is pure lip service. Take the now suspended "new" policy on the anthem, it was not about addressing player concerns at all, it was all about hiding players that may offend NFL customers who cling to the "stand for the anthem or you're worst human ever" stance.

[MU82]

They truly have embarrassed themselves on the anthem issue and now they almost surely will "lose" no matter what they do.

Jerry Jones is the biggest embarrassment of all (not including politicians), but there are plenty of other owners who are close.

Wouldn't it be something if every Cowboys player simply took a knee? What would JJ do? Forfeit the game?

[ATL MU Warrior]

They truly have embarrassed themselves on the anthem issue and now they almost surely will "lose" no matter what they do.

Jerry Jones is the biggest embarrassment of all (not including politicians), but there are plenty of other owners who are close.

Wouldn't it be something if every Cowboys player simply took a knee? What would JJ do? Forfeit the game?

I certainly hope they do this. 

[WarriorDad]

They truly have embarrassed themselves on the anthem issue and now they almost surely will "lose" no matter what they do.

Jerry Jones is the biggest embarrassment of all (not including politicians), but there are plenty of other owners who are close.

Wouldn't it be something if every Cowboys player simply took a knee? What would JJ do? Forfeit the game?

Dak Prescott seems to be tripling down on his comments.  Not sure you will get your wish on this one, especially if the leader of the team is where he is on the issue. 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/24295381/dak-prescott-dallas-cowboys-stands-remarks-protesting-national-anthem

[GGGG]

Not saying this is the best issue to rally around, but the NFLPA is so weak, I doubt they will do anything in a unified way to confront ownership.  This is why they caved the last time they negotiated with the owners. 

Yet again though, I have no idea how the NFL can continue to have this issue bubble up.  They could have quietly changed their pre-game routine 18 months ago to keep the players in the locker room.  This would be a complete non-issue now.

[MUBurrow]

Not saying this is the best issue to rally around, but the NFLPA is so weak, I doubt they will do anything in a unified way to confront ownership.  This is why they caved the last time they negotiated with the owners. 

The next collective bargaining negotiations are going to be a disaster. Neither the owners nor the PA can find their @$$ with both hands, though I suspect the owners will be able to come together more quickly and resolutely than the PA.

I do have a bit of sympathy for the NFLPA in that I think they're in the most difficult position of any of the major sports players' associations in that its constituents have wildly divergent goals/needs (though if the MLBPA gave a damn about its minor leaguers, they would also be in a tough spot - ignoring them altogether has nicely solved that problem). Of the major sports, NFL players have the shortest careers, most lasting physical damage, least marketability outside a couple stars, and no other market for their services. In my estimation, that (plus the huge rosters of a limited number of teams) makes it tougher to balance the interests of Aaron Rodgers, LeVeon Bell, and a guard drafted in the 6th round vs most other sports.