Tom Crean: Boon or Bane?

[brewcity77]

So I was thinking about Tom Crean today, something I rarely do. Since he so often comes up in other threads, I thought "what the hell, why not start one for him" so at least we know it won't go off-topic because of Crean. While some people have a negative impression of Crean, some have a positive impression of him, and some don't care, my question is whether or not any success he has at Indiana is good for Marquette. Here are the arguments:

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Crean is Good for Marquette: He continues to mention us on Twitter, and if he happens to have national success, Marquette's name will be mentioned more frequently on television. If Crean goes to the NCAAs, everyone who watches the game will likely hear at least 2-3 Marquette mentions per game. It will give CBS another excuse to play D-Wade highlights in Marquette gear. In addition, it could help us in recruiting. If Crean is recruiting someone and points to his NBA pedigree with the likes of Wade, Diener, Novak, Matthews, and Hayward, it will put MU names in the recruit's head. Crean won't win every recruiting battle, and having another coach remind kids of our players might help our cause for guys I4 can't reel in.

Crean is Bad for Marquette: He is a reminder not just to us, but to the national media that we aren't a national brand. Crean left because he didn't feel he could have the same success at Marquette, which automatically bills us as an inferior program when talking about the NCAA elite. His tanned visage is also a constant reminder and thorn in the side of those who still feel betrayed by his departure, and invariably divides us as a fanbase. Even worse, our most visible marketing tool, Dwyane Wade, is loyal to Crean and could eventually lead to kids identifying him more with Indiana than Marquette, robbing us of a key feather in the cap when it comes to recruiting.

It doesn't matter: He was here, he got us to a Final Four, great. Now he's gone and what he does has no impact on us. Different school, different conference, and mostly different recruiting targets. The few positives and negatives he may offer balance each other out, and honestly, brew wasted my time by writing all this and leaving the most sensible option at the bottom.

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So....what do you think? Good, bad, or irrelevant? Here's your chance to talk about Crean, the positives and negatives, and vent all you like. I'll weigh in with which of the three opinions above is mine sometime later if the discussion lasts.

[bilsu]

It always helps when MU gets mentioned. Given MU success without him and his struggles so far at Indiana it makes it look like MU made him instead of the other way around. Therefore  I voted good for MU.

[Daniel]

I voted good too.  MU mentions on national tv are always good.  I believe Crean will be successful at IIII.  Will that be bad fro MU?  It depends on how we are doing in the meantime.  Cream got MU to the Final Four.  How much more of a leap for heim to get MU to the final game and win?  I can see if you are with a program that never gets a bid, or past the first round.  But other htan that, why not buk.d a strong brand?

He was good for MU when here and can still be good for MU.

GO MARQUETTE!

[dgies9156]

Brew, ole buddy, Tommy Crean is like Kevin O'Neill. He had some wonderful years at MU, left a good legacy and moved on. I personally think both men made mistakes, but last time I looked their wallets were at least modestly fuller than mine is.

They've moved on and so should we. Celebrate what the tanned one did (and the foul mouthed one as well), but first and foremost let's realize that we live in a time where coaches change more often than, say, St. Al did. They were a colorful part of our history but if we sit around and mope about their departures (as many have), we fail to see we can rebuild and rejuvenate.

I think we have someone in Buzz who may well be with us for many years to come. Let's not demean him by constantly fretting about the tanned one. The Tanned One is a non-person as far as I am concerned. Buzz is my man. Don't forget it.

[MUCam]

Crean recruiting well and doing well at Indiana validates his "Its Indiana! Its Indiana!" mantra.

As a poster above stated, the longer he struggles at Indiana, the better the Marquette program looks.

I know there exists a theory that any publicity is good publicity, but I, for one, don't want Marquette to constantly be referred to as Crean's stepping stone if he does ever have success.

Let him fail.

[4everwarriors]

The best thing for MU would be for Crean
 to take his act to Siberia and not return. Hope the good people of Siberia forgive me.

[MarquetteDano]

I voted for "makes no difference" since that is the closest to my thoughts....

I think some success will be good for Marquette.  As the reasons mentioned by Brew it keeps Marquette's name out there.  I think if Crean wins a National Championship, though, that would be bad.  This is because it proves that he couldn't do it at Marquette but could do it at another school.

I don't cheer for or against Indiana these days.  However, I definitely will be cheering against them in any Final Four as I think a National Title with Crean is at the helm hurts Marquette.

[mileskishnish72]

Am happy that "no difference" is way ahead. DWade had more to do with getting to the Final Four than Crean did.

[Lennys Tap]

So far Indiana has had 3 years of failure on the court under TC, one of which was totally understandable, one of which was mostly understandable and one of which was a bit of a head scratcher. If he ends up succeeding it will be at least another three years before even his biggest boosters can claim confirmation. In the 6+ years it takes Marquette will have become what it can become under Buzz. So by those standards, Crean's success or failure is a non issue.

[RubyWiscy]

I think some success will be good for Marquette.  As the reasons mentioned by Brew it keeps Marquette's name out there.  I think if Crean wins a National Championship, though, that would be bad.  This is because it proves that he couldn't do it at Marquette but could do it at another school.

I don't cheer for or against Indiana these days.  However, I definitely will be cheering against them in any Final Four as I think a National Title with Crean is at the helm hurts Marquette.

Unless MU gets to the Final Four or wins a national chamionship before Crean does at IIII. Buzz is building his own resume of success for MU. Let's not forget he has taken us to the Sweet 16 with probably his weakest team in 3 years at MU.  Let's see what the next year or two bring for MU.

I personally wish all the success to every past MU coach.  If their teams are on TV or do well, I am only interested because of the past connection.  IMHO itmakes no statement on the current status of the MU program.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

If the poll option was "Tom Crean:  Babboon or Bane" you'd be closer.  I4 is not much more than a screaming primate throwing poo.   

[4everwarriors]

If the poll option was "Tom Crean:  Babboon or Bane" you'd be closer.  I4 is not much more than a screaming primate throwing poo.   

Eloquent dude, simply eloquent.

[6746jonesr]

Why does anyone care about Tom Crean?  He's gone.  Get over it.

[Bocephys]

Why does anyone care about Tom Crean?  He's gone.  Get over it.

This.  We had a few weeks where no one brought up Crean and it was glorious.  He has no effect on the current program.

[Milkshakes]

Really?  Move on dude.  He did good things for the program while here but he is gone.  Long gone now in terms of basketball tenure...  Leave it alone.

[BubbaWilliams]

The best thing for MU would be for Crean
 to take his act to Siberia and not return. Hope the good people of Siberia forgive me.

There is not enough sunlight there. People would immediatley know his tan was not real

[ringout]

Why does anyone care about Tom Crean?  He's gone.  Get over it.

This thread was worthwhile just for F*ckin's poo flinging comment.

[Goose]

While far from a TC backer I believe any success he has a positive for MU. He is part of our history and I hope every former Warrior does well because it reflects well on the program. That said, if he stepped on his johnson it would not break my heart.

[Skatastrophy]

While far from a TC backer I believe any success he has a positive for MU. He is part of our history and I hope every former Warrior does well because it reflects well on the program. That said, if he stepped on his johnson it would not break my heart.

+1

The more "he took Marquette to the Final-Four" comments he gets from announcers during national TV broadcasts the better.

[4everwarriors]

While far from a TC backer I believe any success he has a positive for MU. He is part of our history and I hope every former Warrior does well because it reflects well on the program. That said, if he stepped on his johnson it would not break my heart.

If he was a midget, it'll be a reach to step on his junk.

[Lennys Tap]

This thread was worthwhile just for F*ckin's poo flinging comment.

Brings to mind the New York Times bestseller "Brown Spots on the Wall" by Hu Phlong Poo.

[Nukem2]

If he was a midget, it'll be a reach to step on his junk.

When it comes to TC, someone seems to be a mental midget.  As much as someone may not like TC, its hard for anyone to deny TC's successful efforts on behalf of MU....   Be glad Deane is not roaming the sidelines at the BC...!

[Silkk the Shaka]

While far from a TC backer I believe any success he has a positive for MU. He is part of our history and I hope every former Warrior does well because it reflects well on the program. That said, if he stepped on his johnson it would not break my heart.

Disagree.  I'm thankful for what he did here, but him failing miserably at IU is good for MU period.

[77ncaachamps]

Let him wax nostalgic about his Marquette days. That shows he's not making enough "nostalgic" moments at IU.

In the end, indifferent. Winning is the here and now. Buzz is the here and now. Crean is the then and gone.

Someone had brought it up earlier, but if Majerus, KO, Lawrence Frank, Tex Winter (or his son) bring up Marquette, it may help increase MU pub.

So let Crean talk about the "good 'ol days" for as long as he wants. It usually means things aren't going the way they should in Bloomington.

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

Let him wax nostalgic about his Marquette days. That shows he's not making enough "nostalgic" moments at IU.

+1

[Marqevans]

Continued success by Buzz will make Crean a non-issue, but I believe Crean could have taken us to the next level.  Too bad he didn't listen well to Al McGuire when he first got here.  Al took this "stepping stone" program to National recognition as a basketball power and parlayed himself into a national celebrity which kept Marquette in the minds of a national TV audience.  Crean will never be Al McGuire and he will never be Bobby Knight

[rocky_warrior]

If he was a midget, it'll be a reach to step on his junk.

His ties however, would be easy to step on even if he was a giant.

[nycwarrior]

I voted "good for Marquette" but I'm really on the fence between that and it doesn't matter what Crean does in the future.

The fact is this: Tom Crean was a necessary stepping stone to returning Marquette to national prominence.

To move back into the big time, Marquette needed (needs?) to prove that our program is bigger than any one coach. It needed (needs?) to prove that it can sustain its ability to win over time. In today's NCAA hoops reality that means winning under successive coaches.

The hard reality is that, prior to last year, we earned two Sweet Sixteen appearances in three decades. Therefore in the eyes of the national media and prospective coaching candidates, we have never sustained what a national audience would regard as significant success post the Al McGuire Era.

As a result of that lack of sustained success each coaching change required a rebuilding job. If Buzz does as well during the next four years as we all hope he does, the program will be sitting on a decade of NCAA appearances with a half dozen guys in the league.

As national media see that success year in and year out, the media will see Crean and Buzz as the front men who revamped Al's program for the modern era.

Regardless of what Crean does now, we will either maintain and surpass his level of success based on what we do moving forward.

If both we and our former coaches keep winning, it makes the extended MU tradition one that more coaches, players and fans will blog, tweet and want to join.

Go Buzz. Go Warriors.

[brewcity77]

I think for the time being, his success is good. Mainly because any success Crean has right now will automatically bring up Marquette's name. If Indiana makes the tournament, we'll hear that it's the first time Tom Crean had a tournament team since he was at Marquette. If they make a deep run, it'll be his first run since he was at Marquette. If they make a Final Four, it'll be accompanied by Dwyane Wade highlights and more mentions of Marquette.

In addition, his waxing nostalgic about the Marquette days on Twitter only reminds people that his best days were here. I think nyc indicated well that as much as Marquette was a stepping stone for Crean, Crean was also a stepping stone for Marquette. We're in a better position because of him, and his success will only remind people of that.

As time passes, he will become less and less relevant to us, regardless of how he does with Indiana. If Buzz continues to have success, the program will become more branded to him. If Crean starts to have success, he will become more branded to Indiana. Regardless, I think the days of him being a negative for Marquette are done. The program has moved on and proved it can succeed without him, and no one associates his shortcomings at IU with us.

From this point on, at worst, he's a non-factor, and at best, he gives us a few media bumps when he finally does succeed or when he talks about Marquette on the March Madness pregame shows.

I'm glad of where we are because of him, and honestly think we're better off now than we'd have been if he stayed.

[nycwarrior]

I'm glad of where we are because of him, and honestly think we're better off now than we'd have been if he stayed.

This. Totally agree.

[Hoopaloop]

So far Indiana has had 3 years of failure on the court under TC, one of which was totally understandable, one of which was mostly understandable and one of which was a bit of a head scratcher. If he ends up succeeding it will be at least another three years before even his biggest boosters can claim confirmation. In the 6+ years it takes Marquette will have become what it can become under Buzz. So by those standards, Crean's success or failure is a non issue.

Why is it that most college experts do not agree with your evaluation?

[Lennys Tap]

Why is it that most college experts do not agree with your evaluation?

I assume you disagree. Maybe you fancy yourself a college basketball "expert", whatever that is. That makes one.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Baboon

[NersEllenson]

My only question is:  What current success?? 

It's been an epic failure thus far.  However, due to him getting in bed with Indiana Elite, it does seem he will have some future success.  If he doesn't - his employment won't last long.  I will be surprised if he ever returns Indiana to a year in, year out power - a la a Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, UNC.  I can see TC achieving similar success to that which he had at MU - but I doubt he will greatly exceed his accomplishments at MU.

[Canadian Dimes]

I am with Ners...

What current success?  What has the clown done over the last 3 years?  Lost 70 or so games?  Sans a handful of school the worst record in college basketball over that period. 

The a poster says "college basketball experts" disagree. 

Wow...

Agreed year 1, not much one could do....but years 2 and 3 have been absolute nightmares of terrible on court performances and coaching.  Certain posters can make every excuse in the world but the last two seasons IU has had a collection of 3 and 4 star recruits on the court and lost 20 plus games.

There is no success in that and most college experts agree with that.  Reality is IU has been terrible...no one in their right mind expected Tom Crean to be this inept at rebuilding the program.  Look at any projection when he first got hired and no one had him losing 20+ games in the 3rd year....most had him in the NIT or NCAA's.   But he has recruited poorly and coached as bad as normal.

Problem is "most college experts" are former coaches and rarely if ever do they make any sort of disparaging comments of fellow coaches, as they know the damage their comments can do to their fellow coaches livelihoods efforts. 

So they say things like "unlucky", "bad breaks", "great coach efforts will be rewarded", "gonna take longer", etc. anything to try to shed a positive spin on what has in any objective manner been a collosal failure.

Not saying he cant or wont turn it around, but to this point it has been a collosal failure, even worse than the most dire of predictions.

And the "college basketball experts" are in no way, shape, or form objective.

I think Crean's last 3 years have hurt Marquette...the guys is such a bumbling boob, no one could have done a worse job than what he has done, and he comes across as a complete idiot on TV.  He is already one of the most hated coaches, by opposing fan bases in the B11, and that is hard to do when your team is winning 1 game a year. 
The guy is such a tool it can only hurt Marquette becuase he was associated with us.

 

[tower912]

Crean was a boon to MU.   It is time to move on.   Our program is clearly in a better place.   Crean took some of his MU recruits to I4 and they failed.   (Williams and Capobianco (sp?))   Just think, they could have been ours!     Buzz came in and in the short term recruited his roots, JUCO's and Texas.   He managed the transition well.   Now, after establishing himself, he is getting MU back into Chicago and starting to compete for the top talent in Wiscy as well.    Along with continuing to be in on top 100 kids all over the place.    Crean took as long to establish himself in I4.   If he can just close the borders in I4, he can have a top 15 program, if he can coach them.   He can be excused years one and 2, but it just about put up or shut up time for him and the hoosier nation.    If I4 isn't top 10 by 14, he is going to need asbestos boxers.   

[Canadian Dimes]

3 more years?

good coaches win right away..nature of the sport.

[tower912]

His teams SHOULD have been better than they were.   I can't argue that.   I hate to sound like Chico's, but he DID have to start from scratch and was put in some fairly tight (read: no juco's) binders by I4's administration.   The recruits that he basically took with him to IU did not pan out.   He has built the necessary relationships (if you want to make snarky comments about Indiana Elite, go ahead, but he is hardly the first coach to draw from them) and he is doing a better job of sealing the borders.    Most of the hoosier faithful see it that way and are willing to be patient rather than have a Calipari style coach.   The bottom line for me is that Crean is no longer my problem.     IMO, he will build that program back to near-elite status, but never what it was under Knight.    Meanwhile, the fact that Buzz has managed the transition far better is far more relevant to what I worry about.  

[Blackhat]

Crean added a lot of (I can't believe I am going to say this)  "cool" back to the program and updated it with a fresh young, recruiter feel to the program from the stale Deane years where white dudes with fades were running around. 

He added a lot of fans to the program but ultimately never could get over the elite hump at a smaller school like only a Few (get it!?! hee haw) can. 

I hope Buzz can advance the program, he's got something to sell now to recruits with back to back tourneys and a sweet sixteen.   HUGE YEAR for Buzz.   Can we progress in the W column in league play?  If not it may take us on a slow and painful track.

[DiaperDandy]

Saw this and had to post it....Could not miss this opportunity.  The tan one at his best!!!  This video was taken after II beat Illinois last year.  Enjoy.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/campusrivalry/post/2011/01/tom-crean-indiana-fans-celebration-illinois/1

[Canadian Dimes]

That was pathetic...what were they chanting?...Sieg Heil?