I decided to start a new thread where we can hash this out rather than continuing to pollute the recruiting thread with another tangent.
Why do some posters seem to revel more in Wojo's recruiting misses than his successes?
Why do so few care about Markus being a preseason first team AA?
Why do some hope Wojo does just well enough to be hired away?
Why do some continue to defend those who left while being derogatory to those who stayed?
We are just a few weeks from the start of the season and we are busier parsing LeBron's thoughts on China than we are discussing potential rotations, who starts at the 4, who starts at the 5, zone options. Why?
This is a fringe top 25 preseason team with a high ceiling. All some posters care about is a game against an unknown opponent 6 months away?
Is it Wojo?
Are we tired of each other and scoop?
Have all the basketball discussions been done before?
Is it reflective of society around us?
Even though we officially don't talk politics, is it bleeding through in our opinions about sports, each other, scoop?
To me, this is becoming a joyless place. Will winning change that? 24 wins didn't. It made it worse.
A frustrating malaise.
What is your complaint about MU hoops?
What is your solution?
Do you honestly believe there is a coach out there that is markedly better who would come to MU? Name names.
But keep it here. Let the recruiting thread be about recruiting.
I have no complaints against MU basketball. I agree they should be a top 25 team. I think recruiting for next year is progressing well. I don't care that the Hausers left. No doubt they had talent - but I'm glad their entitled attitude left with them. I think we will be better off for that happening.
There is both malaise and anger. We all known who is the driver for that (I don't mean chico). It carries over to almost every aspect of our lives - including sports and personal interactions. My entire life, personal politics had a 0% effect on my personal relationships. That has completely changed.
I will not let it ruin sports for me. If others want to do that, I want no part of it.
On a sporting level, it is a great, great time to be a sports fan in Wisconsin.
1) Marquette should be a top 25 team.
2) GB will be one of the Super Bowl favorites as the season goes on.
3) Bucks have a very good chance for an NBA title.
4) Brewers made the playoffs again.
5) Wisconsin has a very realistic chance for the football playoff.
6) We have Rodgers - not Trubiskey or Cousins.
7) We don't have the Cubs, White Sox, Bulls, Blackhawks, Illini, Northwestern, etc.
Why you gotta hate the Hawks they have no impact on a WI team?!
I have no complaints against MU basketball. I agree they should be a top 25 team. I think recruiting for next year is progressing well. I don't care that the Hausers left. No doubt they had talent - but I'm glad their entitled attitude left with them. I think we will be better off for that happening.
There is both malaise and anger. We all known who is the driver for that (I don't mean chico). It carries over to almost every aspect of our lives - including sports and personal interactions. My entire life, personal politics had a 0% effect on my personal relationships. That has completely changed.
I will not let it ruin sports for me. If others want to do that, I want no part of it.
On a sporting level, it is a great, great time to be a sports fan in Wisconsin.
1) Marquette should be a top 25 team.
2) GB will be one of the Super Bowl favorites as the season goes on.
3) Bucks have a very good chance for an NBA title.
4) Brewers made the playoffs again.
5) Wisconsin has a very realistic chance for the football playoff.
6) We have Rodgers - not Trubiskey or Cousins.
7) We don't have the Cubs, White Sox, Bulls, Blackhawks, Illini, Northwestern, etc.
These are really good questions.
I think the summary is .. yes, there is a malaise.
As I wrote in another thread .. I dropped my season tickets that I had for 19 years, due to the many factors that generated this malaise, where all I really wanted to see was 3-4 games a year.
Crean built up the "family" character, then left. Buzz did the same, then left. Wojo's time will end similarly, with the constant mantra of how "special" Marquette is, but he will absolutely leave when given a good opportunity. And frankly, Wojo is patient zero on the malaise plague, fair or not.
Besides Wisconsin, MU doesn't have any other real "rivalries." We can enjoy a game against Nova, but they are just flat better than us. Gosh, I can't wait to play Butler and Creighton this year.
Players good and bad leave the program all the time. Recruiting is interesting, but we've had plenty of good guys before without success. MU hasn't won a NCAA game in 2,395 days. Expectations are high, but it's also entirely possible MU flops this year.
Marquette is in the Arby's phase of its existence.
It never did! Name one other on a regular basis as Wisconsin that we actually looked forward to over the last 50 years.
It never did! Name one other on a regular basis as Wisconsin that we actually looked forward to over the last 50 years.
Notre Dame. I know there were a couple missed years but in 50yrs I'd put them at a close number two.
But do domers think it was a rivalry the same as MU fans? Has to work both ways to be a real rival.
I could not agree with you more, however, when the institution I love gets political it is hard to avoid it. Primary example changing our mascot from Warriors to Golden Eagles was a political statement which still does not sit well with many and I concede older alumni. I hope the Golden Eagles do us proud this season.
To me, this is becoming a joyless place. Will winning change that? 24 wins didn't. It made it worse.
A frustrating malaise.
What is your complaint about MU hoops?
What is your solution?
Do you honestly believe there is a coach out there that is markedly better who would come to MU? Name names.
But keep it here. Let the recruiting thread be about recruiting.
It never did! Name one other on a regular basis as Wisconsin that we actually looked forward to over the last 50 years.
Most adult Americans are generally unhappy with their lives and as you age it's only a matter of time until Marquette basketball goes from useful distraction of their tepid existence to swallowed whole into the ether of their pointlessness.
I started the NM thread. IIRC, it was originally a snarky dig at Crean that I regretted shortly after posting. I wanted to delete it, but instead deleted my post and changed the title to NM. The rest, as they say.....
With regards to why isn't there more perceived buzz for this year's team.
2) Two players who had significant roles left after a season in which MU peaked early and faded late. MU had the regular season Big East Title in the bag and blew it. They were absolutely throttled in NCAA first round. Expectations went from deep NCAA run this season to let's make it first.
The keys for me are shooting the basketball, in particular from 3 and from the FT line. I don't see much FT discussion. It is easily one of my biggest concerns.
I think they were sabotaged rather than they blew it.
3s will be interesting with the line moving back this year. Shouldn’t affect MH too much, but other guys may struggle a bit. I think defense and transition with mitigate the loss of some of the 3s.
This definitely isn't exclusive to Marquette, but for some people the joy of sports is complaining about sports. Without these people, sports talk radio would get about 10 percent of the callers it does. Some of these same people are Scoopers. And that's fine. Everyone is free to enjoy sports whichever way they wish.
Because people are getting older and crotchety
Because it's preseason and expected after being an AA last year. I care more that he wasn't preseason BE POY
This thought process is idiotic
Because the Hausers were two players WI brothers and I think a lot of people instinctively feel Howard and Wojo wronged them since it's the only reason they would've left.
Don't even have a theory on this one
I think people are placing too much emphasis on Tournament than the whole picture
Wojo isn't mr media personality. I'm sure that's a factor especially with the Al groupies.
Yes we are
Yes they have
Yes it yes
Yes it bleeds in way too much
People are too stuck in the past
There are a few posters that do make this place bad. Say what you want about guru and his opinions that don't make sense at least you can feel his passion. Guys like 4ever drive apathy
No it won't not till we have a sweet 16
My complaint is that we aren't as open to the media anymore.
Another documentary
No I do not.
I could not agree with you more, however, when the institution I love gets political it is hard to avoid it. Primary example changing our mascot from Warriors to Golden Eagles was a political statement which still does not sit well with many and I concede older alumni. I hope the Golden Eagles do us proud this season.
Apathy? Far from it. Wojo hasn't shown he can get it done. Yes, some sporadic flashes, but no consistency. 5 years without a Tourney win and Hauser-Gate will absolutely bury him. I could go on and on. Luckily, for him, he has the backing of the current administration. I wish, those of you who have never enjoyed the excitement and energy of big time, winning basketball, get the opportunity, in your lifetime, to experience it. Unfortunately, Billy Packer, some years ago, may have nailed the state of MU basketball. For the record, Davis crossed us off his list a week ago.
"Unconditional support," hell no. I'm not a sheep or a follower in anything. I can and do think for myself. With regards to Wojo, it's obvious. He's out of his league.
BTW, and I seriously do not mean this in a condescending way, but your youth and naïveté is showing.
I think they were sabotaged rather than they blew it.
3s will be interesting with the line moving back this year. Shouldn’t affect MH too much, but other guys may struggle a bit. I think defense and transition with mitigate the loss of some of the 3s.
Hopefully your naïveté will auto correct with age and life's experiences.
Anytime you want to compare real life experiences, and who, therefore, has a better grasp of reality, I'm game.
I’d be curious how people would feel had it been Markus who transferred out and the belief was it was the Hausers that made him leave. My hunch is, some opinions would be different
was it a "political" statement or just a response to changing societal attitudes and requests from the Native American community (especially those the Jesuits worked with in South Dakota that made the request)? I feel like some of those hanging on to the nickname issue, 26 years later, just use it as a convenient excuse not to support MU, especially financially. They weren't going to give or come to games in the first place, now they have their excuse. It's kind of like people who boycott certain businesses because of a political decision. For example, the right-wing crowd that vowed to boycott Nordstrom for no longer carrying Ivanka Trump merchandise or left-wingers who boycott restaurants like Chik-Fil-A or Jimmy John's for their stances or actions. You weren't going to shop/eat there anyway.
Some people will claim it wasn’t about the Hausers’ own shots, it was about the style of play not leading to winning (despite being something like 20-4 when they wrote the letter complaining about it).
They didn’t want to play with Markus. They didn’t want to play with Herro. What’s the common denominator? They don’t want to play with players who are better than them (a lottery pick and an All American).
Maybe they really did just want to see Theo John be thrown the ball in the low post.
Or maybe they wanted to showcase their own talents.
I thought of this today. I think the vitriol towards Markus is shameful. The Wojo dislike is fine. That’s the nature of fandom. The coach always gets more blame than credit.
I still think back to an exchange I had with a Marquette alum after Crean left. I asked who he thought would be the next coach and he was absolutely convinced it could be John Calipari. That sticks with me to this day. Expectations versus reality are not the same thing.
You "feel" a lot of things in this paragraph, Billy. And you make several assumptions based on these "feelings" But you offer zero evidence to back up any of your "feelings". #Worthless
They didn’t want to play with Markus. They didn’t want to play with Herro. They don’t want to play with players who are better than them (a lottery pick and an All American).
They didn't want to play with anybody better than them so they transferred to Michigan St and Virginia? LOL
if someone doesn't give or support the university and our teams because of a mascot change 26 years ago they weren't going to support it anyway. It's a mascot. It's not like Michigan State harboring and covering up for a rapist doctor or Penn State covering up for a pedophile coach.
Oh, it was only one "assumption" (and anyone who ever made fundraising calls saw those who gave very little to zero used the nickname as their justification for not giving).
#livinginthepast #getoverit
Sure seems like it. Who’s going to be better than them on those rosters in a year? I’ll hang up and listen. Please educate me.
We don't know who's going to be on those rosters next year so I won't go on that fool's errand. But I'm willing to wager that MSU and UVA will be will be better than MU was last year. If Sam and Joey are the "stars" of those teams it will speak volumes about the three coaches.
Oh, it was only one "assumption" (and anyone who ever made fundraising calls saw those who gave very little to zero used the nickname as their justification for not giving).
#livinginthepast #getoverit
Go Marquette
At what point will Wojo be held to the same standard as Crean and Buzz? Wojo’s first five years pale in comparison to what those two accomplished, and Crean had the far tougher rebuilding job. We were a borderline mid-major when he took over for Deane. One idea being floated around is that Wojo is Crean without the Final Four. Is that supposed to be a compliment? That’s like saying an actor is F. Murray Abraham without Amadeus.
Milwaukee is a soft sports market, and Marquette mostly flies under the radar unless they’re exceptionally good. So, zero pressure from the media, zero from the MU administration. Wojo has been treated with kid gloves by all but a few posters on here, and even that’s not good enough for some of his biggest fans. Hell, earlier today we had a poster make a personal attack about another poster’s dietary and life choices because he wasn’t showing “unconditional” support for our coach. Seriously? If you want to carry the torch for a guy who’s making over a million bucks a year, has won zero NCAA Tournament games, and looks like he’s gonna miss out on yet another big time recruit he’s been very publicly courting for months, that’s your business. But making personal attacks on people for not sharing your opinions is a bunch of crap, IMO.
Let’s see if Wojo can get it done this year.
I very much looked forward to games against Louisville, even though they owned us. When Huggins was @Cincy, those were acrimonious games too. Notre Dame.
If 50 years is your time horizon, DePaul.
At what point will Wojo be held to the same standard as Crean and Buzz? Wojo’s first five years pale in comparison to what those two accomplished, and Crean had the far tougher rebuilding job. We were a borderline mid-major when he took over for Deane. One idea being floated around is that Wojo is Crean without the Final Four. Is that supposed to be a compliment? That’s like saying an actor is F. Murray Abraham without Amadeus.
Milwaukee is a soft sports market, and Marquette mostly flies under the radar unless they’re exceptionally good. So, zero pressure from the media, zero from the MU administration. Wojo has been treated with kid gloves by all but a few posters on here, and even that’s not good enough for some of his biggest fans. Hell, earlier today we had a poster make a personal attack about another poster’s dietary and life choices because he wasn’t showing “unconditional” support for our coach. Seriously? If you want to carry the torch for a guy who’s making over a million bucks a year, has won zero NCAA Tournament games, and looks like he’s gonna miss out on yet another big time recruit he’s been very publicly courting for months, that’s your business. But making personal attacks on people for not sharing your opinions is a bunch of crap, IMO.
Let’s see if Wojo can get it done this year.
Got it.
I suppose the Hausers won't improve being a 5th year senior vs. 3rd year junior and a 3rd year sophomore vs. 1st year freshman. Of course not.
But I'm shocked that Tony Bennett and Tom Izzo are better coaches than Steve Wojciechowski. Shocked.
So you think third year sophomore version of Joey and 5th year senior version of Sam would have been our stars last year? Or that Markus's usage would have gone down much under those circumstances? I don't. Nobody's gonna get the ball out of MH's hands - and that's the way Wojo wants it. Most here agree with Wojo. I'd prefer a little more distribution.
So you think third year sophomore version of Joey and 5th year senior version of Sam would have been our stars last year? Or that Markus's usage would have gone down much under those circumstances? I don't. Nobody's gonna get the ball out of MH's hands - and that's the way Wojo wants it. Most here agree with Wojo. I'd prefer a little more distribution.
"Unconditional support," hell no. I'm not a sheep or a follower in anything. I can and do think for myself. With regards to Wojo, it's obvious. He's out of his league.You seem too constipated get away from those conspiracy BS diets. Eat balance diet, constipation makes you grouchy. Those diets are akin to following infowars. By the way my Championship player connection say all old players love Wojo. But that is them, no matta!
BTW, and I seriously do not mean this in a condescending way, but your youth and naïveté is showing.
I still think back to an exchange I had with a Marquette alum after Crean left. I asked who he thought would be the next coach and he was absolutely convinced it could be John Calipari. That sticks with me to this day. Expectations versus reality are not the same thing.
I decided to start a new thread where we can hash this out rather than continuing to pollute the recruiting thread with another tangent.
Why do some posters seem to revel more in Wojo's recruiting misses than his successes?
Why do so few care about Markus being a preseason first team AA?
Why do some hope Wojo does just well enough to be hired away?
Why do some continue to defend those who left while being derogatory to those who stayed?
We are just a few weeks from the start of the season and we are busier parsing LeBron's thoughts on China than we are discussing potential rotations, who starts at the 4, who starts at the 5, zone options. Why?
This is a fringe top 25 preseason team with a high ceiling. All some posters care about is a game against an unknown opponent 6 months away?
Is it Wojo?
Are we tired of each other and scoop?
Have all the basketball discussions been done before?
Is it reflective of society around us?
Even though we officially don't talk politics, is it bleeding through in our opinions about sports, each other, scoop?
Is it the years, the Crean vs. Buzz vs. Wojo debates having a cumulative effect?
Is it a couple of posters?
To me, this is becoming a joyless place. Will winning change that? 24 wins didn't. It made it worse.
A frustrating malaise.
What is your complaint about MU hoops?
What is your solution?
Do you honestly believe there is a coach out there that is markedly better who would come to MU? Name names.
But keep it here. Let the recruiting thread be about recruiting.
I have absolutely no malaise toward Marquette basketball. I am excited for this season, just as I was enjoying last season while it was taking place, and I was looking forward to the 2018-19 season at this point last year, and each season before those.
I care. I want us to win, and win big. When I go to games, I stand and cheer a lot. When I'm watching at home, my dog has to leave the room because I'm too into the games. If I lived within 60 miles of Marquette, I'd have season tickets for sure. I loved going to DC for the 2013 Elite Eight. I loved being at the 2003 Final Four.
But I also find reasons to get something out of the MU teams that don't achieve to that degree, and I certainly don't let the bad seasons ruin my life. I'm stoked for the game, but if we lose, I move on. It's an outlet, it's not real life.
There are folks dealing with cancer and extreme financial distress and opioid addiction and overcooked Arby's, for cripe's sake. I try to keep things in perspective; I don't always succeed, I get frustrated at times just like everybody does, but I try. I know there are some who believe that keeping things in perspective and not losing one's shyte means one is a "lesser fan." I disagree, but whatevs.
I wish all of my fellow Warriors (and Golden Eagles) good fortune, and a great (and malaise-free) season ahead.
We are Marquette!
Here's the differences as I see them.
Wojo took over for a guy that crashed his last year and told anyone that would listen the conference was no good, and I'm ditching this place for Va Tech...for less money. That doesn't look so hot. Wojo had to follow that toxic departure.
Crean struck gold with Wade, no two ways about it. Buzz struck gold by inheriting a massive amount of built-in talent. Wojo did not get the latter benefit, and has yet to strike a Wade like talent...very few coaches do.
The results haven't been the same, the conditions haven't been either. Disagree there is zero pressure, that's a gross overstatement. End of the day, he put the team in the post season three straight years, hasn't had off-court issues, the arena was selling out, we were considered a top team much of the year, we have a great All-American who embodies much of the MU character the school strives to project. That's going to translate into a lot of decent to good feelings.
I am curious to see how this year goes. I am optimistic.
So you ran into the dumbest guy ever to go to Marquette. Unlucky for you.
I think it's understandable. We've been in a slow rebuild and patience wears thin. Then we start winning and winning a lot. On February 26th we were on the verge of being a top 10 team, winning the Big East, and earning a top 3 seed in the NCAA tournament (meaning a very good chance at Wojo's first tourney victory). People started to hope after years of nothing special. Then the wheels came off. Smashed any and all hope in spectacular fashion, culminating in the embarrassment against Murray State.
But the hope smashing wasn't over. We could at least take comfort in most of the roster coming back and every national pundit pegging us as a preseason top 10 team.....until Hausergate. More hope destroyed. Yeah we are still a preseason top 25 team, but that rings a little hollow after starting the offseason as a preseason top 10 team. It's still good...but you can't help and think about what you were before.
Long story short, it will take a lot of winning and finishing a season strong before people start to hope again.
It’s isn’t isolated. When Wojo gets fired or leaves on his own accord, the names that will be tossed around by alum and fans won’t match reality.
There is some joker that says crazy stuff in any fan base. Sometimes they have power and influence even. You are right that it isn’t isolated—to marquette.
Here’s a question I have for the folks here, would you take Frank Martin’s run at South Carolina, one final four since 2012 and only one tourney appearance?
I ask this because a great tournament run bought him time and now three years later, they look like a team headed for another NIT or bust season. If Wojo has a great tournament run this year, that doesn’t portend future success per se
MU has made it 33 times in case anyone was wondering.
Apples to oranges.
1) Length of times are different
2) South Carolina had NEVER made it beyond the Sweet 16 in the history of their program. In fact they have NEVER even made the NCAA tourney 10 times in the history of their program. Spoiler alert: Most of their success was in the early 1970's. MU has made it 33 times in case anyone was wondering.
3) Hoops budgets and resources are a bit different.
4) And so on...
It isn't rocket science. It isn't personal. It's a business. For fans, it's entertainment. 2 NCAA appearances in 5 seasons losing first round twice by a total of 39 points. Many people reasonably expect more than that. For me personally winning the league is a goal and it was disappointing to be in great position and fade because it is tough to win it.
This is about.....can Wojo go from 2 of 5 make NCAA's to 5 of 5? Can he go from no NCAA wins to many in the next 5 seasons if he is at MU. .....the other goals are big games, rivals be competitive and not lose often, be competitive to win league and league tourney. .....A top 16 program would be a hypothetical Sweet 16 caliber program. I would like to see a top 25 program established year in and year out with a goal of that top 16. It is reasonable and fair. I do not expect deep runs often or all the time. Once in a while, sure, I do not expect league titles annually. I do not expect anything less than the above. If Wojo can do it, great, if not, find someone that can. It's a big money business, these people make good money and understand the expectations. It's pretty simple and straight forward for me.
It’s isn’t isolated. When Wojo gets fired or leaves on his own accord, the names that will be tossed around by alum and fans won’t match reality.
Topper said it best...win a couple tournament games, that’ll cure a lot of ills.
The game at Creighton last year, the Buffalo/Wisconsin games last year, those fun and great moments seemed all for nothing as the season went up in flames. The buy in to this upcoming season is tough based on how last year ended.
Topper said it best...win a couple tournament games, that’ll cure a lot of ills.
The game at Creighton last year, the Buffalo/Wisconsin games last year, those fun and great moments seemed all for nothing as the season went up in flames. The buy in to this upcoming season is tough based on how last year ended.
Apples to oranges.
1) Length of times are different
2) South Carolina had NEVER made it beyond the Sweet 16 in the history of their program. In fact they have NEVER even made the NCAA tourney 10 times in the history of their program. Spoiler alert: Most of their success was in the early 1970's. MU has made it 33 times in case anyone was wondering.
3) Hoops budgets and resources are a bit different.
4) And so on...
It isn't rocket science. It isn't personal. It's a business. For fans, it's entertainment. 2 NCAA appearances in 5 seasons losing first round twice by a total of 39 points. Many people reasonably expect more than that. For me personally winning the league is a goal and it was disappointing to be in great position and fade because it is tough to win it.
This is about.....can Wojo go from 2 of 5 make NCAA's to 5 of 5? Can he go from no NCAA wins to many in the next 5 seasons if he is at MU. .....the other goals are big games, rivals be competitive and not lose often, be competitive to win league and league tourney. .....A top 16 program would be a hypothetical Sweet 16 caliber program. I would like to see a top 25 program established year in and year out with a goal of that top 16. It is reasonable and fair. I do not expect deep runs often or all the time. Once in a while, sure, I do not expect league titles annually. I do not expect anything less than the above. If Wojo can do it, great, if not, find someone that can. It's a big money business, these people make good money and understand the expectations. It's pretty simple and straight forward for me.
Yeah, I don't fall in the same boat as you do here. I don't forget the bright spots of a season just because it ended poorly. That would be too frustrating for me as a fan.
Apples to oranges.
1) Length of times are different
2) South Carolina had NEVER made it beyond the Sweet 16 in the history of their program. In fact they have NEVER even made the NCAA tourney 10 times in the history of their program. Spoiler alert: Most of their success was in the early 1970's. MU has made it 33 times in case anyone was wondering.
This is about.....can Wojo go from 2 of 5 make NCAA's to 5 of 5? Can he go from no NCAA wins to many in the next 5 seasons if he is at MU. .....the other goals are big games, rivals be competitive and not lose often, be competitive to win league and league tourney. .....A top 16 program would be a hypothetical Sweet 16 caliber program. I would like to see a top 25 program established year in and year out with a goal of that top 16. It is reasonable and fair. I do not expect deep runs often or all the time. Once in a while, sure, I do not expect league titles annually. I do not expect anything less than the above. If Wojo can do it, great, if not, find someone that can. It's a big money business, these people make good money and understand the expectations. It's pretty simple and straight forward for me.
was it a "political" statement or just a response to changing societal attitudes and requests from the Native American community (especially those the Jesuits worked with in South Dakota that made the request)? I feel like some of those hanging on to the nickname issue, 26 years later, just use it as a convenient excuse not to support MU, especially financially. They weren't going to give or come to games in the first place, now they have their excuse. It's kind of like people who boycott certain businesses because of a political decision. For example, the right-wing crowd that vowed to boycott Nordstrom for no longer carrying Ivanka Trump merchandise or left-wingers who boycott restaurants like Chik-Fil-A or Jimmy John's for their stances or actions. You weren't going to shop/eat there anyway.
I’d be curious how people would feel had it been Markus who transferred out and the belief was it was the Hausers that made him leave. My hunch is, some opinions would be different
Topper said it best...win a couple tournament games, that’ll cure a lot of ills.
The game at Creighton last year, the Buffalo/Wisconsin games last year, those fun and great moments seemed all for nothing as the season went up in flames. The buy in to this upcoming season is tough based on how last year ended.
If it was a response to changing attitudes then why did the University not allow Warriors to be a choice when they asked students and alumni to vote for a nick name? You may not agree, but to me that was a political decision because they new how that vote would have gone. If the vote were to happen today things might be different, but we both know that is not going to happen.
Good post, 69. Maybe drawing too fine of a line, but I think it was political correctness run amok rather than politics.
Warriors, with an Indian mascot, has no place in modern society. We don’t need team names that reflect race. Warriors, in a generic sense though, is 100% appropriate.
I don’t want this thread turn into another battle over the name, though.
Here’s a question I have for the folks here, would you take Frank Martin’s run at South Carolina, one final four since 2012 and only one tourney appearance?
I ask this because a great tournament run bought him time and now three years later, they look like a team headed for another NIT or bust season. If Wojo has a great tournament run this year, that doesn’t portend future success per se
This is where I stand. I was basically "all in" on Wojo through mid February. I thought he and the program had turned a corner. Then came a total collapse on the court followed by one off the court. Some say the season ended "poorly". I think that's an understatement of epic proportion.
So I'm in the "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me" camp. After falling for the fool's gold last year I'll be more wary this year. I think Wojo has earned that.
Who do you believe would be realistic candidates for the job if wojo were to leave/get fired?
Cheeks
I thought Lenny’s post was quite clear.
My short answer is I don't have a I ready list today vs some names in mind. The longer version is to this point I haven't advocated Wojo's dismissal. However I do believe to please the masses he needs to make the NCAA 2nd weekend soon. That is a reasonable, fair, obvious statement. With regard to candidates.....
The challenge for MU will be getting a successful mid major type of head coach that isn't going to prefer a Power 5 school. This past season, Oats goes from Buffalo to Alabama. Musselman goes from Nevada to Arkansas. Brannen went from N Kentucky to Cincinnati. So the last one there is different. There is also the high major assistant route, and the other category such as Penny, Howard, Stackhouse etc...A good coach and fit can come from a variety of places. I am open to that.
I would have preferences, and a list if and when the time comes, yes. And we could then discuss it.
The expectation this year is making the NCAA's and having success in it. I don't see why MU couldn't do that.
It's fair to say the next 5 years, if there is 5 for Wojo needs to be a better percentage making NCAA's, a better percentage winning in NCAA's, better league finishes, better conference tourney results. If there isn't much improvement, and/or too many setbacks, I don't believe we will get to that point. I am neither a Wojo hater, nor am I a Wojo apologist.
If someone said he or she has been satisfied or happy with the first 5 year results, I would disagree. It's just basketball, just sports, just entertainment, but if MU is going to have a program, it may as well get the best results possible. I believe it is fair to say MU has underachieved thus far with Wojo. It doesn't mean Wojo can't improve that moving forward. He can't afford anymore down or rebuilding seasons any time soon. Specifically the way MU plays and in game and in season adjustments can be tweaked a bit. I, like many others will look for that this year and moving forward. I hope for a great season.
Who do you believe would be realistic candidates for the job if wojo were to leave/get fired?
I’d advocate for TJ Otzelberger or Nate Oates. I know those guys are in high major jobs now, but they have WI ties and we could maybe offer a pay bump from their current position. I think there are people on this board who’ve said MU has had their eye on TJO.
I don’t know if you meant it this way, but your question, to me, makes it seem like you don’t think there are any coaches out there who could do a better job at Marquette than Wojo. If we can’t find someone better, it would be the easiest thing in the world to find someone who’s just as good. I think pretty much any coach could guide a program to zero NCAA Tournament wins in five seasons.
I’d advocate for TJ Otzelberger or Nate Oates. I know those guys are in high major jobs now, but they have WI ties and we could maybe offer a pay bump from their current position. I think there are people on this board who’ve said MU has had their eye on TJO.
I don’t know if you meant it this way, but your question, to me, makes it seem like you don’t think there are any coaches out there who could do a better job at Marquette than Wojo. If we can’t find someone better, it would be the easiest thing in the world to find someone who’s just as good. I think pretty much any coach could guide a program to zero NCAA Tournament wins in five seasons.
Yeah anyone could bug There's a huge difference between guiding Depaul to zero NCAA tournament wins in five seasons vs what Wojo has done
I will be watching TJ closely. Damn good recruiter, well-respected across the country
He’d be the first guy I’d call if Wojo leaves or is shown the door.
I'm with you Mike. While Marquette basketball is one of my (and all Scoopers, I presume) big passions, our success (or lack thereof) won't cure cancer or solve the problem of world hunger. A tough loss, a bad season or a protracted "malaise" doesn't mean much compared to the health and happiness of those we love. We ALL get that. But this is a Marquette basketball website. People come here to celebrate, to commiserate and to bitch. It what fans do. You're an insightful and often extremely critical guy (on countless subjects), but when it comes to MU bball you generally check those qualities at the door in favor of a more enthusiastic approach. Doesn't make you a lesser (or better) fan. Just different. Everyone here decides how much objectivity to bring to their love and loyalty for MU. That's fine. But arguing over how much is appropriate isn't fine. It leads to arguments, baseless accusations (anyone here who knows 4ever and Goose knows they want nothing but success for MU) and enmity. We don't need to always agree on the state of our basketball program here, but it sure would be nice if we could acknowledge that disagreement doesn't equal disloyalty. Might even eliminate some of the "malaise".
We are Marquette - indeed.
Well, I named two guys I think would be viable candidates, who might accept the job at the right price. If Thad Matta is able to coach again, he might also be interested and a good choice. I’m sure other Scoopers can name more guys they’d like to see who aren’t Tony Bennett, Kelvin Sampson, and Chris Beard. This idea that nobody could do a better job at Marquette than Wojo’s doing is wrongheaded.
Unless I missed it, and it's certainly possible I did, I don't know as I've seen any Scooper say (or even imply) that nobody could do a better job at MU than Wojo.
What some have said is that if you fire Wojo, you start over, most likely with either a mid-major coach, a P6 assistant or possibly a retread. And if you don't score big with the person who replaces him, you can set the program back a decade.
I'm not arguing that is a reason to avoid firing him if justified. I'm simply saying you'd better know exactly what your intentions are before you go the starting-over route.
There are no sure things. Every single Scooper, including me, was all-in on Shaka, but he has done zippo at Texas. Majerus, seen as pretty much a sure thing, was an epic failure at Marquette (for a variety of reasons).
Not a single Scooper knows if the next hire will automatically do better than Wojo. We all have opinions. Like you, I like to think we could find someone better, but it always comes back to my two favorite words in any of these situations:
We'll see.
Until any of this happens, though, I'm rooting like hell for Wojo to be the coach most of us want him to be: a long-time, successful coach who can guide us into the NCAAs pretty much every year, can win multiple Big East titles and can get us into the second weekend (and beyond) more times than not.
Again ...
We'll see.
I’m trying to remember the moments he was all-in....
We are in agreement, Lenny.
Sometimes I get a little snarky, yes, and I do admit it bugs me a little bit when a few posters don't show up after wins or after a recruiting get but can't wait to rip after a loss or a recruiting miss, but yes, fans are fans.
FWIW -- probably not much -- I have gone from bullish on Wojo to "show me" on Wojo. I was generally pleased with the trajectory of the program and the quality of the recruits he was bringing in, and I still am to a degree. However, while I don't absolve the Hausers for Hausershima, he is the coach and the buck stops there. It was a total shyteshow, and it reflects on the coach. So probably for the first time since he's been our coach, in my eyes, the pressure is on Wojo.
I said "probably not much" because there is no "or else" for me, either real or implied. And frankly, I doubt he would be fired unless we have a total dumpster fire of a season ... and who knows, maybe not even then.
So while I personally want to see him take the next step with our program and overcome the fallout of Hausershima, I am pretty realistic.
Go Marquette!
Well, I named two guys I think would be viable candidates, who might accept the job at the right price. If Thad Matta is able to coach again, he might also be interested and a good choice. I’m sure other Scoopers can name more guys they’d like to see who aren’t Tony Bennett, Kelvin Sampson, and Chris Beard. This idea that nobody could do a better job at Marquette than Wojo’s doing is wrongheaded.
When memory fails, I suggest a search.
When it’s suggested that Wojo be shown the door, there are a couple folks who always say, “And replace him with who?” This question, to me, implies that the person asking it thinks there are no realistic candidates who might do a better job than Wojo. But since I can’t recall anyone actually saying those words verbatim, I’ll stop saying it going forward. I don’t want to get into “There are people on here rooting against the program” territory.
I’ll say this: If Wojo misses on Davis and Garcia, I believe the number of NCAA Tournament games he wins this season should directly correlate to how long his leash is. Win one, he gets another year. Win two, give him two. Zero, and like Silvio Dante said about Richie Aprile on The Sopranos, “I don’t think we got anything to gain by keeping him around.”
Nobody has said there’s not a single person in the world who would come to Marquette who could do a better job than Wojo. The issue is finding that person. There is no sure fire, can’t miss guy out there, in my opinion. A guy like Nate Oates isn’t going to leave the big pay day he just got after 1 season to take over for a guy who will probably have just made back to back NCAA Tournament appearances and got run out of the building. Nor is Nate Oates clearly a guy who would kill it at Marquette. He had a nice final 2 years at Buffalo, with some guys who were holdovers from the previous coach. Shaka was much closer to a “can’t miss, will kill it at the next level” and he can’t get it done at Texas, which should be easier to win at than Marquette.
I am confident a guy like Tony Bennett would kill it at Marquette. I’m also confident Tony Bennett would never even have his administrative assistant send a phone call from Marquette through to him.
Chris Beard got the Texas Tech job after a single season of coaching D1 college basketball. It has obviously worked out for them. But it was just as likely that it’d turn out to be a failure. That’s the kind of guy we could get at Marquette.
Agree 100%. We struck silver with Crean and gold with Buzz but there are no guarantees. That said, IF it's determined that Wojo's not the guy the sooner you gamble on the next guy you think might be the better.
FWIW -- probably not much -- I have gone from bullish on Wojo to "show me" on Wojo.
Go Marquette!
Nobody has said there’s not a single person in the world who would come to Marquette who could do a better job than Wojo. The issue is finding that person. There is no sure fire, can’t miss guy out there, in my opinion. A guy like Nate Oates isn’t going to leave the big pay day he just got after 1 season to take over for a guy who will probably have just made back to back NCAA Tournament appearances and got run out of the building. Nor is Nate Oates clearly a guy who would kill it at Marquette. He had a nice final 2 years at Buffalo, with some guys who were holdovers from the previous coach. Shaka was much closer to a “can’t miss, will kill it at the next level” and he can’t get it done at Texas, which should be easier to win at than Marquette.
I am confident a guy like Tony Bennett would kill it at Marquette. I’m also confident Tony Bennett would never even have his administrative assistant send a phone call from Marquette through to him.
Chris Beard got the Texas Tech job after a single season of coaching D1 college basketball. It has obviously worked out for them. But it was just as likely that it’d turn out to be a failure. That’s the kind of guy we could get at Marquette.
When it’s suggested that Wojo be shown the door, there are a couple folks who always say, “And replace him with who?” This question, to me, implies that the person asking it thinks there are no realistic candidates who might do a better job than Wojo. But since I can’t recall anyone actually saying those words verbatim, I’ll stop saying it going forward. I don’t want to get into “There are people on here rooting against the program” territory.
I’ll say this: If Wojo misses on Davis and Garcia, I believe the number of NCAA Tournament games he wins this season should directly correlate to how long his leash is. Win one, he gets another year. Win two, give him two. Zero, and like Silvio Dante said about Richie Aprile on The Sopranos, “I don’t think we got anything to gain by keeping him around.”
I started the NM thread. IIRC, it was originally a snarky dig at Crean that I regretted shortly after posting. I wanted to delete it, but instead deleted my post and changed the title to NM. The rest, as they say.....
Funny... as I recall, it was ramblings of a bromance.It had been so long, I had forgotten (a) your work of fan fiction and (b) why I started the damn thing in the first place. For the life of me, I cannot remember Boeheim's snarky comment about Crean in 2017.
Yeah anyone could bug There's a huge difference between guiding Depaul to zero NCAA tournament wins in five seasons vs what Wojo has done