Steve Bartman Gets a Ring

[wadesworld]

Nice try. 

Journalists stopped reporting the facts long ago.  They feel the need to spin a narrative in every story.  Reporting the story doesn't win any Pulitzers.  Bartman was A story.  He was not the story, except the media made it so.  The Cubs meltdown after that play should have been the story.  His name should be a footnote.

You should offer that up to Dusty Baker and the Cubs players. After the fans started threatening his life, throwing every item they could find at him, etc. while that inning continued on and the outcome still well up in the air (see: making him, not the Cubs play, the story), Dusty and team followed suit, bringing all the attention to him and that play after the game (see: making him, not the Cubs play, the story). If Cubs fans don't (predictably) treat him the way they do after that play and the players and manager don't react like they did, even if the entire rest of the game goes identically, the media doesn't give him one side note. But the fans and team made him the story, so the media wrote the story.

[MU82]

Nice try. 

Journalists stopped reporting the facts long ago.  They feel the need to spin a narrative in every story.  Reporting the story doesn't win any Pulitzers.  Bartman was A story.  He was not the story, except the media made it so.  The Cubs meltdown after that play should have been the story.  His name should be a footnote.

First, I agree with wades on Bartman. The Cubs and their fans MADE him the story. Hell, the Cubs are STILL making him the story! Did anybody from the media go to Ricketts last month and say, "Hey, how about giving Bartman a ring?" I don't think so. So easy and lazy to blame the media, though.

Second, re your obvious disdain for the media ... wow. Without a free and active press, this country is TOAST. Those who might not think so need only look at the events of the last 48 hours.

[GGGG]

First, I agree with wades on Bartman. The Cubs and their fans MADE him the story. Hell, the Cubs are STILL making him the story! Did anybody from the media go to Ricketts last month and say, "Hey, how about giving Bartman a ring?" I don't think so. So easy and lazy to blame the media, though.

Second, re your obvious disdain for the media ... wow. Without a free and active press, this country is TOAST. Those who might not think so need only look at the events of the last 48 hours.

Actually Bartman "redemption" stories were floated around during the playoffs last year.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/kass/ct-steve-bartman-cubs-world-series-20161023-column.html

[Lennys Tap]

Second, re your obvious disdain for the media ... wow. Without a free and active press, this country is TOAST. Those who might not think so need only look at the events of the last 48 hours.

You want to thank the free and active press for saving our country because they are feverishly trying to destroy the very thing that they fought feverishly to create. Ironic.

[tower912]

Disappointing, Lennie.

[real chili 83]

First, I agree with wades on Bartman. The Cubs and their fans MADE him the story. Hell, the Cubs are STILL making him the story! Did anybody from the media go to Ricketts last month and say, "Hey, how about giving Bartman a ring?" I don't think so. So easy and lazy to blame the media, though.

Second, re your obvious disdain for the media ... wow. Without a free and active press, this country is TOAST. Those who might not think so need only look at the events of the last 48 hours.

You are getting Chicos-esque with your dripping of political commentary in many of your posts.

[tower912]

MU82, they aren't wrong about you being the one who is injecting politics into the most threads.

[Lennys Tap]

Disappointing, Lennie.

The guy is, was and has always been a blowhard. But the press gave him more free publicity (plenty of it positive) than the other 18 GOP candidates combined because it sold newspapers. I didn't see anything remotely heroic in that.

[mu-rara]

First, I agree with wades on Bartman. The Cubs and their fans MADE him the story. Hell, the Cubs are STILL making him the story! Did anybody from the media go to Ricketts last month and say, "Hey, how about giving Bartman a ring?" I don't think so. So easy and lazy to blame the media, though.

Second, re your obvious disdain for the media ... wow. Without a free and active press, this country is TOAST. Those who might not think so need only look at the events of the last 48 hours.

I thought the press was to be free, active and unbiased, but we all know that's not true

[tower912]

The biases in modern media reminds me of newspapers in the early days of the republic. They would routinely print rumours or simply make things up to support their biases.   Like many websites today.  Truly impartial journalism was a worthy goal that was rarely achieved.  And when it was it was attacked by partisans as biased because it didn't support THEIR biases.   

[MU82]

1. I shouldn't have injected politics in this.

2. And there is no sense of having a discussion about the media if almost everybody here believes the mainstream media, which routinely roots out corruption by the very people we hire to serve us, actually is bad for this country.

Checking out.

[#UnleashSean]

1. I shouldn't have injected politics in this.

2. And there is no sense of having a discussion about the media if almost everybody here believes the mainstream media, which routinely roots out corruption by the very people we hire to serve us, actually is bad for this country.

Checking out.

Says he shouldn't bring political views into thread. Does so right after?

[Lennys Tap]

2. And there is no sense of having a discussion about the media if almost everybody here believes the mainstream media, which routinely roots out corruption by the very people we hire to serve us, actually is bad for this country.

Checking out.

There's a whole lot of real estate between "heroic" and "bad". Most journalist live with most of their fellow citizens in that vast expanse.

[Sheriff]

Back on topic.

The over-the-top and irrational response by many Cub fans to Bartman is indefensible.  Is giving him a 2016 World Series ring an appropriate gesture by current Cubs management?

- Replay shows Bartman interfered with Moises Alou's attempt to catch the foul fly ball.
- That interference likely gave the Marlins another out in addition to the five badly needed by the Cubs to win the game and their first pennant in 58 years.  Everybody, including Bartman, is aware of the narrative (goat, 1969, 1984, etc).
- Regardless of whether or not Alou makes the catch, the play changes the momentum of the game at probably the most critical point in the game time in 58 years for the franchise.  If you don't believe in momentum in baseball, consider what happened following the rain delay in game 7 last year. 
- I don't buy the narrative that "any fan would have done the same thing as Bartman." If you are a REAL fan, and understand the situation and consequences, why wouldn't you make an effort to get the hell out of the way and give your player an opportunity to make that catch?  Ozzie Guillen (with the Marlins in 2003) said that if anyone should give Bartman a ring, it should be the Marlins.
- Finally, Bartman contributed nothing to the success of the 2016 Cubs other than giving them the satisfaction of "breaking the curse" that included Bartman in the narrative.

Considering all of the above, I don't think awarding him with a 2016 World Series ring makes sense.

[GGGG]

Back on topic.

The over-the-top and irrational response by many Cub fans to Bartman is indefensible.  Is giving him a 2016 World Series ring an appropriate gesture by current Cubs management?

- Replay shows Bartman interfered with Moises Alou's attempt to catch the foul fly ball.
- That interference likely gave the Marlins another out in addition to the five badly needed by the Cubs to win the game and their first pennant in 58 years.  Everybody, including Bartman, is aware of the narrative (goat, 1969, 1984, etc).
- Regardless of whether or not Alou makes the catch, the play changes the momentum of the game at probably the most critical point in the game time in 58 years for the franchise.  If you don't believe in momentum in baseball, consider what happened following the rain delay in game 7 last year. 
- I don't buy the narrative that "any fan would have done the same thing as Bartman." If you are a REAL fan, and understand the situation and consequences, why wouldn't you make an effort to get the hell out of the way and give your player an opportunity to make that catch?  Ozzie Guillen (with the Marlins in 2003) said that if anyone should give Bartman a ring, it should be the Marlins.
- Finally, Bartman contributed nothing to the success of the 2016 Cubs other than giving them the satisfaction of "breaking the curse" that included Bartman in the narrative.

Considering all of the above, I don't think awarding him with a 2016 World Series ring makes sense.

You are excluding the over-the-top reaction that Bartman was subject to afterward.  The Cubs feel they played a role in that, therefore this is a symbolic way to apologize for that.  They think it makes sense - good enough for me.

[brewcity77]

Honestly, I just hopes this closes the chapter on Bartman. It was an overblown story at the time, created an unfair narrative that persisted for years, and anyone that still remembers it also remembers the Cubs winning the World Series last year, so it's water under the bridge. This should be the last time we need to hear Bartman's name, which would be better for Cub fandom, the Cubs organization, and the Bartman family.

[warriorchick]

You are excluding the over-the-top reaction that Bartman was subject to afterward.  The Cubs feel they played a role in that, therefore this is a symbolic way to apologize for that.  They think it makes sense - good enough for me.

Or look at it this way.  Suppose Bartman hadn't interfered and the Cubs went on to win the World Series.  The team would have become more valuable as a result; and at that price, the Ricketts may have decided that purchasing it would not be a sound business decision.  Therefore, the Ricketts would not have been there to make the changes that turned the Cubs into a team that was good enough to win the World Series last year. 

Ipso Facto, Steve Bartman deserves a ring because he is the reason they won the 2016 World Series.

[MerrittsMustache]

Back on topic.

The over-the-top and irrational response by many Cub fans to Bartman is indefensible.  Is giving him a 2016 World Series ring an appropriate gesture by current Cubs management?

- Replay shows Bartman interfered with Moises Alou's attempt to catch the foul fly ball.
- That interference likely gave the Marlins another out in addition to the five badly needed by the Cubs to win the game and their first pennant in 58 years.  Everybody, including Bartman, is aware of the narrative (goat, 1969, 1984, etc).
- Regardless of whether or not Alou makes the catch, the play changes the momentum of the game at probably the most critical point in the game time in 58 years for the franchise.  If you don't believe in momentum in baseball, consider what happened following the rain delay in game 7 last year. 
- I don't buy the narrative that "any fan would have done the same thing as Bartman." If you are a REAL fan, and understand the situation and consequences, why wouldn't you make an effort to get the hell out of the way and give your player an opportunity to make that catch? Ozzie Guillen (with the Marlins in 2003) said that if anyone should give Bartman a ring, it should be the Marlins.
- Finally, Bartman contributed nothing to the success of the 2016 Cubs other than giving them the satisfaction of "breaking the curse" that included Bartman in the narrative.

Considering all of the above, I don't think awarding him with a 2016 World Series ring makes sense.

You have a solid argument. Although, the bolded part is 100% wrong. If a baseball is coming your way in the stands, you try to catch it. Unless the fan played baseball at a high level, judging where a liner off the bat of an MLB player is going to land is darn near impossible for a fan. Did you want him and everyone else in the vicinity to remained seated with their hands at their sides? Should they all scatter? What's your solution?

99% of Cubs fans moved on long ago and understand that he did nothing wrong. Unfortunately, the media keeps bringing the story back up. The Cubs gave Bartman a ring as a PR move. The guy just wants to be left alone. Hopefully this helps do the trick.

[Sheriff]

Honestly, I just hopes this closes the chapter on Bartman. It was an overblown story at the time, created an unfair narrative that persisted for years, and anyone that still remembers it also remembers the Cubs winning the World Series last year, so it's water under the bridge. This should be the last time we need to hear Bartman's name, which would be better for Cub fandom, the Cubs organization, and the Bartman family.

I wholeheartedly agree.  My first reaction after the final out in game 7 last year was - no more curse, no more goat, no more Bartman.  And eight months later, more Bartman.

[Sheriff]

You have a solid argument. Although, the bolded part is 100% wrong. If a baseball is coming your way in the stands, you try to catch it. Unless the fan played baseball at a high level, judging where a liner off the bat of an MLB player is going to land is darn near impossible for a fan. Did you want him and everyone else in the vicinity to remained seated with their hands at their sides? Should they all scatter? What's your solution?

99% of Cubs fans moved on long ago and understand that he did nothing wrong. Unfortunately, the media keeps bringing the story back up. The Cubs gave Bartman a ring as a PR move. The guy just wants to be left alone. Hopefully this helps do the trick.

It was a pop fly.  How about just leaning back or moving out of the way?  I've seen a lot of baseball.  It happens all the time.

[MerrittsMustache]

It was a pop fly.  How about just leaning back or moving out of the way?  I've seen a lot of baseball.  It happens all the time.

How often do you see it deep down the line where the fans can't see the fielder coming at them and the fielder has to jump up into the stands to make a play?

[cheebs09]

Was it a Cubs sponsored event where they blew up the ball?

[GGGG]

Was it a Cubs sponsored event where they blew up the ball?

No.  Someone bought it and blew it up as a stunt.

[Sheriff]

How often do you see it deep down the line where the fans can't see the fielder coming at them and the fielder has to jump up into the stands to make a play?

That's not what happened.  Alou did not "jump into the stands."  Bartman reached over the wall and the ball hit his hand above Alou's glove.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

That's not what happened.  Alou did not "jump into the stands."  Bartman reached over the wall and the ball hit his hand above Alou's glove.

Your memory is faulty. The ball was already in the stands when Bartman reached for it, and anyways he wasn't even the only fan to reach for he ball.