MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: reinko on January 17, 2012, 11:13:17 AM
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Hilarious on so many levels. Keep up the crack reporting team.
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EDITORIAL: Stop glorifying the basketball teams; they’re just student-athletes
Vice President and Director of Athletics Larry Williams begins his first semester on the job this week, and we at the Tribune would like to welcome him to the job.
The premise of Williams’ hiring process and appointment was in part to change the culture of our athletics, most notably scarred by the sexual assault case reported last spring involving student athletes.
The time has come to see just how dedicated he and our athletes are to changing athletics’ culture, and we believe the best place to start would be with our most prominent athletics programs: men and women’s basketball.
It’s no secret the basketball players on campus are treated more like quasi-celebrity-athletes than students, especially the men’s team. The basketball teams are separated from the rest of the student body, and it’s time to change that for the better.
Unlike other sports teams on campus, both the men and women’s basketball teams have specialized, isolated housing arrangements. They have their own study space at the Eagle’s Nest in the Al McGuire Center and even their own area to eat breakfast, lunch and dinner.
We feel these discrepencies insulate basketball players from th rest of campus, as does the students’ willingness to put them on a pedestal.
This is not to suggest the basketball teams are undeserving of respect. Members of both teams pull off feat that few can. They are full-time athletes and full-time students. They have strict schedules that usually involve early-morning practices, specific study tables and planned meal times. It’s hard to be that dedicated to a college sport and still attend classes and get work done, and this is something for which any athlete should be commended.
But it’s perhaps because players are put on this glorified pedestal that situations such as this year’s “Crosstown Shootout” between Xavier University and the University of Cincinnati happen on Dec. 10, 2011. The basketball teams were involved in a bench-clearing brawl 9.4 secords before the game ended. This abrupt ending to the rival’s game occured after words were exchanged between players on Twitter before the game and on the court.
Though this was not solely because of Xavier’s players, the fact that these athletes represent an institution supposedly grounded in Jesuit ideals — and remained largely unapologetic in the post-game press conference — is amazing, and not in a good way.
“That’s what you’re going to see from Xavier/Cincinnati. We got disrespected a little bit before the game – guys calling us out. We’re a tougher team,” senior guard Tu Holloway said: “We’re grown men over here. We got a whole bunch of gangsters in the locker room; not thugs, but tough guys on the court. And we went out and zipped them up after the game. That’s our motto – “zip them up”– and that’s what we just did to them.”
While there are of course many factors in play in this particular instance, we feel the sense of entitlement cultivated by college basketball programs –– especially programs structured in the way both Xavier’s and Marquette’s are, where basketball is the university’s top athletic priority –– encourages behavior that is far outside the norm for regular students, or even regular student-athletes.
And while this example does not mean that Marquette players are exactly the same as Xavier players, we feel the conditions existing could potentially cultivate such problems somewhere down the line.
The solution, then, is to eliminate these conditions. This requires two things: that the student body take them off their imaginary pedestal and that the athletic department encourage the players to take that step down and work to become a more integrated part of the student body.
Integrating the basketball team into the rest of the student body must be an all-campus effort. To change the culture, we as a campus have to be willing to forge that connection with the team as real people, not glorified celebrities or stereotyped athletes.
It is not sufficient to promise a change of athletic culture with Williams’ hiring and let the matter continue as is. We must make an effort to fit the basketball players into the university as a whole. It’s time to make them student-athletes again, not just athletes who are students.
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The author failed to mentioned the millions of dollars the school makes on these guys.
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Marquette Tribune just lost all their good credibility that Paint Touches has established in my mind.
Get off your unnatural carnal knowledgeing high horse, bunch of crybaby cute onebags.
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I cannot believe they got the X/Cincy reference in there. Unbelievable.
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The author failed to mentioned the millions of dollars the school makes on these guys.
MILLIONS.
As soon as the Spirit Shop starts selling Soccer or LAX jerseys at the pace that DJO's jersey goes, everything else can suck it.
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I am confused. Are we to stop glorifying the Xavier and Cincinatti teams, or the Marquette team?
I didn't think anyone gave a crap that the players had different housing, dining, and study areas.
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This is the same kind of bullcrap thinking that made DePaul what DePaul Basketball is today.
Larry Williams, do not heed this advice in any way.
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I like how whoever wrote the article had it posted as "By Tribune Staff". If you're going to write a completely off the wall article blaming the Xavier Cincy brawl on students putting the players on a pedestal, at least have the cojones to put your name on your piece.
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It's no secret the basketball players on campus are treated more like quasi-celebrity-athletes than students, especially the men's team. The basketball teams are separated from the rest of the student body, and it's time to change that for the better.
I would consider an athlete who is on national television 20 some times a year and brings in millions of dollars a "quasi-celebrity-athlete" at the least.
Keep treating them as such!
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I blame the students for the Vander Orange incident.
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I like how whoever wrote the article had it posted as "By Tribune Staff". If you're going to write a completely off the wall article blaming the Xavier Cincy brawl on students putting the players on a pedestal, at least have the cojones to put your name on your piece.
Herm Edwards agrees (I don't know how to embed video.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy9NyUKcGQw
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I like how whoever wrote the article had it posted as "By Tribune Staff". If you're going to write a completely off the wall article blaming the Xavier Cincy brawl on students putting the players on a pedestal, at least have the cojones to put your name on your piece.
It is an editorial, so that's the norm for such things. Can't hate on them for that.
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GUUUUUUUUUUUUUH.
http://www.youtube.com/v/fEkWH8DB7b0&fs=1&source=uds
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I think that the Eagle's Nest is a great resource for the student athletes. All freshman are required to use it a certain number of hours during their first semester and any subsequent semester after not meeting a GPA requirement. The whole purpose of it is to make sure that the student athletes are on the right track academically. To say it's putting the student athletes on a pedestal is a little far fetched.
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This article is an embarrassment to the entire College of Communication at MU. Sounds like it was written by whiny spoiled white kids jealous they aren't getting enough attention themselves.
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This article is an embarrassment to the entire College of Communication at MU. Sounds like it was written by whiny spoiled white kids jealous they aren't getting enough attention themselves.
I won't say the entire College as many great journalism students didn't participate in the Tribune due to it's lack of quality.
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absolute unnatural carnal knowledgeing garbage
Embarrassed as a college of comms grad
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No one at Paint Touches was consulted for the editorial. This was the response I left on the Facebook link to it:
Yes, they do. And for good reason. All the men's basketball team does is bring in millions of dollars annually for the school so all other sports can be funded. And, without a football team, they are celebrities on campus because their successes over the past six years have provided the campus with a pulse when it comes to sports.
They work harder than any of us can even imagine and do it all while being students. I'm not surprised the editorial didn't mention the three instances this year where the entire team shot around at the Bradley Center with dozens of families (each time) with disabled children at Buzz's Bunch. Every single player was in attendance with a smile on their face, genuinely happy to be there. They were also all there during the summer camp portion of Buzz's Bunch. I would know: my brother attends it and it's one of his favorite days of the year.
And to go anywhere near the Cincinnati-Xavier brawl is ludicrous. To think that a sense of entitlement on campus means the Marquette players are going to start throwing punches in games and call each other thugs is laughable, and a ridiculous stretch connecting Jesuit schools. For all the Marquette basketball team does for the school and the Marquette family, I'm absolutely fine with them walking around campus with a little strut in their step.
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This editorial has reduced the value of my MU degree. It was that bad.
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There is such a large segment of students that despise the men's basketball team players. I don't think they realize that without the money and publicity they generate this school would not be what it is today. I for one from the east coast would probably have not even known about Marquette without the basketball team. We also would have zero big time athletics without these teams. How many kids go to girl's soccer games even with how good that team has been in recent years?? The best part of this article was the fact that the student who wrote the article doesn't even have his/her name attached to it. It simply says staff.
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This editorial has reduced the value of my MU degree. It was that bad.
Who is the adult supervision over at the Tribune??? I'm fine with controversial topics, if they have a point and are not rambling, incoherent diatribes that make no logical sense. What Comm professor read that crap and said, yeah I could totally see a paper like the MJS printing that??? Sounds like someone at the Trib there likes to toss grenades and then run. I'd love to see one of the basketball players write a well crafted and intelligent response to stick it to the Trib if they had the guts to publish it.
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To sort of defend this... The article is an editorial, so it was written to foster discussion. And, the basic premise that separate facilities for the basketball teams causes them to be isolated from rest of the MU community, I think is a reasonable discussion topic.
Unfortunately, the references to the Xavier-Cincy brawl kill it.
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No one at Paint Touches was consulted for the editorial. This was the response I left on the Facebook link to it:
Yes, they do. And for good reason. All the men's basketball team does is bring in millions of dollars annually for the school so all other sports can be funded. And, without a football team, they are celebrities on campus because their successes over the past six years have provided the campus with a pulse when it comes to sports.
They work harder than any of us can even imagine and do it all while being students. I'm not surprised the editorial didn't mention the three instances this year where the entire team shot around at the Bradley Center with dozens of families (each time) with disabled children at Buzz's Bunch. Every single player was in attendance with a smile on their face, genuinely happy to be there. They were also all there during the summer camp portion of Buzz's Bunch. I would know: my brother attends it and it's one of his favorite days of the year.
And to go anywhere near the Cincinnati-Xavier brawl is ludicrous. To think that a sense of entitlement on campus means the Marquette players are going to start throwing punches in games and call each other thugs is laughable, and a ridiculous stretch connecting Jesuit schools. For all the Marquette basketball team does for the school and the Marquette family, I'm absolutely fine with them walking around campus with a little strut in their step.
Well said Strotman.
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Completely idiotic.
What about the students who aren't athletes who live off campus in private facilities. Should they be forced to study in the library with the peasantry? Eat the recycled hash with the need-based students? Give up their BMWs and Jettas & use LIMO, public transportation, or - God forbid - walk like most students?
IMO - The student athletes have done more to earn their - and let's be honest here - modest lifestyle than most of these spoiled, entitled "if you have more than I have, you shouldn't have anything at all" children in college these days.
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To sort of defend this... The article is an editorial, so it was written to foster discussion. And, the basic premise that separate facilities for the basketball teams causes them to be isolated from rest of the MU community, I think is a reasonable discussion topic.
Unfortunately, the references to the Xavier-Cincy brawl kill it.
Except that the basketball players attend classes with the regular students and live in Humphrey Hall with students(rode the elevator a million times with Wade, etc when I was at MU). Additionally, the basketball players aren't getting treated any differently than the other student athletes. To call out the basketball team alone is merely an ax to grind.
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I'm not sure I understand what the writer(s) are going for.
If the MU student body takes the basketball players off the imaginary pedestal, it will prevent on-court issues? (Xavier/Cinn.)
Right?
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Except that the basketball players attend classes with the regular students and live in Humphrey Hall with students(rode the elevator a million times with Wade, etc when I was at MU). Additionally, the basketball players aren't getting treated any differently than the other student athletes. To call out the basketball team alone is merely an ax to grind.
I certainly don't have any issues with what the men's and women's teams receive.
But, they do receive benefits that the other teams don't. (And again, I don't have an issue with that). All I'm saying is that I think the overall topic, is a worthy discussion piece. Unfortunately, this editorial was very poorly done.
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Besides all the nonsensical rambling about non-related items, the point of isolationism of the team brings up a questions that I don't know the answer to. My memory serves to think back in the early to mid 2000's big game attendance was much much higher. Students would be to the top of the 2nd level and the corners would be filled. Arguably we have the same sort of talent or greater now than during that era. Was TC/marketing just that much better back then getting students to the game? Or did people feel Dwyane, Dominic, Steve, etc... were more a part of the student body in some way that made them come out to support them more? Is anything structurally different with the way the players are moved around from classes to study halls to practices to games to fundraisers, etc.. now vs back then?
This should probably be a different thread about attendance, as in no way do I support the authors premise. However, while both Pitt and Ville were fun games to be at (Ville more so), my memory thinks that it could be even a wilder, crazier, more fun atmosphere. Cool half-time show though.
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The problem with this article is one of jumps in logic. It seems to me that they have a problem with three things:
**"specialized, isolated housing" - while I agree it is specialized, I don't know what they mean by "isolated." They live in a residence hall with other students right?
**"their own study space"
**"their own dining space"
But as mentioned, they go to class with the students, walk around campus like students do, meet the same graduation requirements, etc.
And none of this has anything to do with their "quasi-celebrity status." They get that status because they play basketball on national television and in front of thousands of fans. They are going to be isolated from the rest of campus in many ways simply because of that. Would eating at the same residence hall or studying with them at the library change that?
It's the way the world works...
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This just in: The Jesuits are returning their car fleet to Bergey, citing a conflict of interest with their vows of poverty.
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There is such a large segment of students that despise the men's basketball team players. I don't think they realize that without the money and publicity they generate this school would not be what it is today. I for one from the east coast would probably have not even known about Marquette without the basketball team. We also would have zero big time athletics without these teams. How many kids go to girl's soccer games even with how good that team has been in recent years?? The best part of this article was the fact that the student who wrote the article doesn't even have his/her name attached to it. It simply says staff.
I never understood this!!! It's like they completely lack any perspective about the school. Coming from the east myself, the biggest response I get out here when I say I went to MU is, "Oh yeah, you guys have a good basketball team." My freshman year was '02-'03, and I remember being confused when people on my floor would say things like we suck, we're overrated, the team is Wade and a bunch of nobodies, Duke would kill us, etc. Then they would root for some Big10 team or Duke or Kansas all year. WTF is that all about??? MU hoops is the biggest thing we have going on at MU, and the program is hot right now. The haters and the wide spread apathy always really confused me.
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I'm not sure I understand what the writer(s) are going for.
If the MU student body takes the basketball players off the imaginary pedestal, it will prevent on-court issues? (Xavier/Cinn.)
Right?
Who knows.
If they cut this editorial after paragraph 7, it would have been ok.
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This just in: The Jesuits are returning their car fleet to Bergey, citing a conflict of interest with their vows of poverty.
Nice.
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I spent one day in the Trib offices before switching to a broadcast communication focus. I guess other than Paint Touches, nothing has really changed.
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I, like Mark, did not have a say and only read it this morning when Brewtown Andy pointed it out on Twitter. It sucked but I doubt your degree has been diminished.
As for Sultan's q's: the basketball teams are the only teams on campus that live in Humphrey since freshman year. Humphrey is not a residence hall but an apartment complex for upperclassmen, hence the isolated nature.
The study and dining space is not basketball specific and as such quite a grievous factual inaccuracy.
I apologize on behalf of the current students, and Triuners, who in no way share in the sentiments expressed in the editorial.
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Envy is the art of counting the other fellow's blessings instead of your own. ~Harold Coffin
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Who knows.
If they cut this editorial after paragraph 7, it would have been ok.
Yea, I actually think there could be an interesting discussion regarding hoops players interaction with the student body (personally, I think it is fine, but there is some room for discussion).
Unfortunately, this editorial is all over the map, and uses some twisted logic as "evidence" that there are potential issues with the current set-up.
Interesting topic, terrible execution.
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The best part is they won't list who wrote the article - just a generic "Tribune Staff" name and email.
What a bunch of cowards! (had other words to use obviously)
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The best part is they won't list who wrote the article - just a generic "Tribune Staff" name and email.
What a bunch of cowards! (had other words to use obviously)
It's an editorial, it's written by the collective editorial board.
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Yea, I actually think there could be an interesting discussion regarding hoops players interaction with the student body (personally, I think it is fine, but there is some room for discussion).
Unfortunately, this editorial is all over the map, and uses some twisted logic as "evidence" that there are potential issues with the current set-up.
Interesting topic, terrible execution.
Agree. And because it was done so poorly, it killed (for all rational purposes) what could have been an interesting topic. That's poor journalism.
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It's an editorial, it's written by the collective editorial board.
Again, why not put your name by your work? I don't care if it is 1 or 10 people's feelings, have the cajones to put your name at the bottom of your work
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It is standard practice for newspapers not to have a byline on the primary editorial - just open up your Trib or Journal - Sentinel. If it has an author, then it is usually either a column or an op/ed.
If you don't like the editorial staff, students are free to launch an alternative newspaper like they did when I was in school. As I recall, the subject of their first editorial was "Bring Back Willy Wampum."
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Again, why not put your name by your work? I don't care if it is 1 or 10 people's feelings, have the cajones to put your name at the bottom of your work
See warriorchick's reply.
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I would be interested to know how many on the staff supported the article. In my HS newspaper they would release the numbers for and against the articles opinion.
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Again, why not put your name by your work? I don't care if it is 1 or 10 people's feelings, have the cajones to put your name at the bottom of your work
I am sure names of the editorial board member is listed in the paper. Those are your authors.
That being said, please don't be a douchebag by harrassing them personally. I hope I really didn't have to say that.
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I just don't get why if you are going to put your name on the website anyway, why not just link it directly instead of making people hunt:
VIEWPOINTS
Viewpoints Editor: Kara Chiuchiarelli
Editorial Writer: Maria Tsikalas
Columnists: Bridget Gamble, Kelly White, Ian Yakob
http://marquettetribune.org/contact/
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I just don't get why if you are going to put your name on the website anyway, why not just link it directly instead of making people hunt:
VIEWPOINTS
Viewpoints Editor: Kara Chiuchiarelli
Editorial Writer: Maria Tsikalas
Columnists: Bridget Gamble, Kelly White, Ian Yakob
http://marquettetribune.org/contact/
Newspapers have been doing this for hundreds of years, get over it.
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http://marquettetribune.org/contact/
Why the hell does the Marquette Tribune website have an ad for Notre Dame's College of Business???
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Why the hell does the Marquette Tribune website have an ad for Notre Dame's College of Business???
Wow. Really?
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To sort of defend this... The article is an editorial, so it was written to foster discussion. And, the basic premise that separate facilities for the basketball teams causes them to be isolated from rest of the MU community, I think is a reasonable discussion topic.
Unfortunately, the references to the Xavier-Cincy brawl kill it.
Sorry, an editorial is opinion, and this one is ignorant and whiney. As others have pointed out, there are numerous demands on the team that far exceed those of the regular student, and more than are placed on the ordinary student athlete. Earlier references to programs like Buzz's Bunch just scrape the surface. This was nothing but a hit piece, and I can only wonder what life experience the editorial board has with the team to generate this drivel.
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standard trib, completely off base
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Why the hell does the Marquette Tribune website have an ad for Notre Dame's College of Business???
What's wrong with that?
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Wow. Really?
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What's wrong with that?
Does Pepsi's website have ads for Coke?
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I am sure names of the editorial board member is listed in the paper. Those are your authors.
That being said, please don't be a douchebag by harrassing them personally. I hope I really didn't have to say that.
So are you Maria, Bridget, Kara, or Kelly?
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Does Pepsi's website have ads for Coke?
So no one should attend Grad School anywhere but Marquette?
I don't know how often you read the online version of the MT, but they don't draw many advertisers for whatever reason. They mostly put up ads that say, basically, "For the love of God, PLEASE advertise with us!"
Kudos to ND for helping to support our students.
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So are you Maria, Bridget, Kara, or Kelly?
None of the above (although what I woudn't give to be a college student again). I am simply a Marquette fan that never likes to see other Marquette fans making asses out of themselves.
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Sorry, an editorial is opinion, and this one is ignorant and whiney. As others have pointed out, there are numerous demands on the team that far exceed those of the regular student, and more than are placed on the ordinary student athlete. Earlier references to programs like Buzz's Bunch just scrape the surface. This was nothing but a hit piece, and I can only wonder what life experience the editorial board has with the team to generate this drivel.
Yes, an editorial is an opinion-piece, but editorials are written to foster discussion, this one included.
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None of the above (although what I woudn't give to be a college student again). I am simply a Marquette fan that never likes to see other Marquette fans making asses out of themselves.
If the tribune editorial staff weren't such incompitent douchebags in the first place, we wouldn't have to have this problem
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I'm sure Paint Touches will get a hold of the editorial board and let us know what generated this type of diarrhea.
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Aren't these types of articles standard from the Trib every few years? Once no one on the Trib 'staff' can remember more than two or three years back, someone thinks they have an original and groundbreaking idea of writing an article on how unfair the treatment of the basketball team is?
Is The Warrior still around?
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So no one should attend Grad School anywhere but Marquette?
I don't know how often you read the online version of the MT, but they don't draw many advertisers for whatever reason. They mostly put up ads that say, basically, "For the love of God, PLEASE advertise with us!"
Kudos to ND for helping to support our students.
I just don't understand why you would promote another university on your website.
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Why the hell does the Marquette Tribune website have an ad for Notre Dame's College of Business???
Marquette does not choose which ads go up there. I'm sure they use the google ads network and let google choose which ad is placed there. Google chooses this based on a large number of different critreria, including your search and browsing history.
This is also the reason you will see Marquette athletics advertisements on completely unrelated websites that Marquette would never advertise on. They use "re-marketing" so if you visit the Marquette Athletics website google will now it, and display you the Marquette Athletics ad on pages that use the google ad network.
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Marquette does not choose which ads go up there. I'm sure they use the google ads network and let google choose which ad is placed there. Google chooses this based on a large number of different critreria, including your search and browsing history.
This is also the reason you will see Marquette athletics advertisements on completely unrelated websites that Marquette would never advertise on. They use "re-marketing" so if you visit the Marquette Athletics website google will now it, and display you the Marquette Athletics ad on pages that use the google ad network.
Basically you just outed TT in his research of getting an MBA from ND.
Shame TT! SHAAAAAMMMMMMMMEEEE
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Basically you just outed TT in his research of getting an MBA from ND.
Shame TT! SHAAAAAMMMMMMMMEEEE
That or is undying love of Notre Dame football.
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Is The Warrior still around?
from my understanding it is but its in unnatural carnal knowledgeed shape
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If you don't like the editorial staff, students are free to launch an alternative newspaper like they did when I was in school. As I recall, the subject of their first editorial was "Bring Back Willy Wampum."
There still is one, called "The Warrior" and in this layman's opinion it is pretty good.
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AMEN:
http://painttouches.com/2012/01/17/marquette-players-earn-what-they-get/
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Marquette does not choose which ads go up there. I'm sure they use the google ads network and let google choose which ad is placed there. Google chooses this based on a large number of different critreria, including your search and browsing history.
This is also the reason you will see Marquette athletics advertisements on completely unrelated websites that Marquette would never advertise on. They use "re-marketing" so if you visit the Marquette Athletics website google will now it, and display you the Marquette Athletics ad on pages that use the google ad network.
Are you sure they use this? Like warriorchick mentioned they usually have ads begging people to advertise with them.
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Are you sure they use this? Like warriorchick mentioned they usually have ads begging people to advertise with them.
When viewing the page source it shows that they use Double Click which I believe allows you to set it up so that if you have any unsold ad space, Google AdSense can be used to take up what's left. I don't think that this is one of those re-marketing ads that spartan is talking about.
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Gotcha.
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News flash: The young adults at the Tribune are light years away from being professional journalists, just as Junior Cadougan and Jamil Wilson are light years away from being professional basketball players.
The editorial wasn't especially well-written. That doesn't mean those who wrote it hate the players or want them to give back their scholarships. It's kind of like when DJO airballs a forced 3 early in the shot clock; he wasn't trying to bring down the entire university.
Jeesh. Overreact much?
Oh, and I'm three decades past being a student, have no kids at Marquette and have no other ulterior motives for writing this. Just want intelligent people -- and I do consider most posters to this site intelligent -- to keep things in perspective.
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Occupy Humphrey/the Al?
I agree with most of everything in this thread. The basketball team probably has to put up with more than those writers or non-athletes have to put up with. As a student, I don't get booed or called out on a message board when I have a bad test or my merits of being good enough for Marquette aren't debated in public. I think a lot of the dislike for the basketball team is just on stereotype. Everyone thinks any major student athlete is dumber than a box of rocks and just show up for the class once in awhile and that's the extent of the student part of student-athlete. They don't realize the amount of work these guys have to put in in the class room, in addition to the work on the court.
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News flash: The young adults at the Tribune are light years away from being professional journalists, just as Junior Cadougan and Jamil Wilson are light years away from being professional basketball players.
The editorial wasn't especially well-written. That doesn't mean those who wrote it hate the players or want them to give back their scholarships. It's kind of like when DJO airballs a forced 3 early in the shot clock; he wasn't trying to bring down the entire university.
Jeesh. Overreact much?
Oh, and I'm three decades past being a student, have no kids at Marquette and have no other ulterior motives for writing this. Just want intelligent people -- and I do consider most posters to this site intelligent -- to keep things in perspective.
Even if they were professional journalists, no level of writing expertise would make this arguement valid. Just because you can formulate a thought doesn't make you right.
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Also funny this is aimed at Larry Williams. If he listened to this sorry excuse of an argument he'd be sent back to Portland inside of six months.
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1) Stop Glorifying Athletes? Uhh, you guys at Johnston Hall don't come out of the basement much, do you? Albert Pujols got $245 million BECAUSE WE GLORIFY ATHLETES. The entire State of Wisconsin is in collective depression this week BECAUSE WE GLORIFY ATHLETES. Let's face it, my high school district just spent more money on athletic facilities than they did on academic facilities BECAUSE WE GLORIFY ATHLETES and because all Illinois politicians are idiots.
2) The Marquette Tribune's motto is to "Promote Intelligent Involvement." This editorial certainly doesn't qualify, but thank God the Tribune is practice for journalists. I'd rather them making their mistakes on campus with a limited circulation daily than I would in real life, when it mattered for them and for the community they serve.
3) This is not the first time someone questioned the role of college basketball at MU. See, McGuire, Al, departure! Back in the mid-1970s, there were faculty members as I recall who were aggrivated that the University's highest paid employee was the college basketball coach. Ole Quentin Quade (remember him, old timers), started nickling and diming Al and the rest was, well, yikes!
This said, the Tribune raises some interesting points. Are university atheletics out of control? The NCAA BS says, "of course not," but we know better. How many athletes nationally could meet most universities normal admission standards? Are universities exploiting highly visible athletes without preparing them adequately for life? Legit questions.
Finally, let's face it, Marquette is what it is today because of basketball. We'd be a Carroll College or maybe Bradley without it. Many of the academic buildings built since 1965 are "Al Structures" that were built because of the visibility of the basketball program. Our student body is much more diverse when our basketball program is visible and good. People don't come to MU, I hope, because of basketball. But I do think it gets us looks we would not otherwise get.
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Wow. Little late to this firestorm.
The Tribune editorial frankly couldn't be more short sighted or shallow. I won't waste my bandwidth detailing my specific complaints. Frankly, it strikes me as 'typical'.
I applaud the Paint Touches response. Pretty much captures the rigor faced by D1 college basketball players and the type of guys that Buzz has brought in generally speaking. And no doubt much has been done in the last year to get these guys to understand their responsibilities.
Lastly, I've personally known two very prominent MU players from back in the day. To protect their privacy I will not mention their household names. But absolutely understand that the average student couldn't survive under the demands they face without the special resources they are necessarily provided.
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I agree with what RJax has been saying. It's an interesting topic worthy of discussion, but it's a horribly written piece and the Xavier portion makes no sense with the rest of the article.
Even as a student, I found it odd that the basketball players had their own dorm/apt. It never bothered me, I just thought it was strange. A HS friend of mine went to Notre Dame and lived 2 doors down from Arnaz Battle in the dorms and became pretty good friends with him. There were a few other athletes (whose names are escaping me) living on the floor as well. He said that besides it being cool to see his buddy on SportsCenter, it was amazing how much time those guys put into their sports and even more amazing that, at the end of the day, those "glorified athletes" were goofy, immature college kids just like everyone else.
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When viewing the page source it shows that they use Double Click which I believe allows you to set it up so that if you have any unsold ad space, Google AdSense can be used to take up what's left. I don't think that this is one of those re-marketing ads that spartan is talking about.
Yeah I didn't really look into it that closely. Just going based on my eMarketing experience. I'm pretty sure that Google AdSense will deliver re-marketing ads though, so while its not necesarrily re-marketing, it could be.
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If the athletes didn't live at Humphrey, where would the Halloween parties take place?
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Just wait til the NCAA allows them to be paid
This kid has a lot to learn about the world, logic, and especially writing.
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I agree with what RJax has been saying. It's an interesting topic worthy of discussion, but it's a horribly written piece and the Xavier portion makes no sense with the rest of the article.
Even as a student, I found it odd that the basketball players had their own dorm/apt. It never bothered me, I just thought it was strange. A HS friend of mine went to Notre Dame and lived 2 doors down from Arnaz Battle in the dorms and became pretty good friends with him. There were a few other athletes (whose names are escaping me) living on the floor as well. He said that besides it being cool to see his buddy on SportsCenter, it was amazing how much time those guys put into their sports and even more amazing that, at the end of the day, those "glorified athletes" were goofy, immature college kids just like everyone else.
See, now this is the interesting part of the conversation.
I have no problem with how the basketball program currently operates. However, an argument could be made for trying to further integrate the players with the student body.
Example: Maybe as frosh., the players could live in McCormick. This is probably a terrible idea, but it would integrate the players with the student body. As it stands right now, the players live in humphey with each other for 4 years. There is nothing wrong with that, but they might like meeting and making friends in the standard dorms like everybody else... at least for Frosh. year.
There are certainly reasons why the coaching staff wants the players in humphey, and I understand and agree with that.
But, if I were writing an editorial, this is where I would start... Far more reasonable and interesting than bringing up the Cincy vs Xavier stuff.
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Example: Maybe as frosh., the players could live in McCormick. This is probably a terrible idea, but it would integrate the players with the student body.
That's where they lived when I was there. The basketball players all did a turn at the giant beer can in the sky, just like we all did. They lived elsewhere as well, but I believe most of them started at the beer can or Schroeder.
One of the nice things about Marquette was that the basketball team DID live with the rest of us in the 1970s. We all got to know them and, candidly, like them as people as well as ballplayers.
Maybe one of the reasons We Were Marquette back then is that we shared the joy of the accomplishments of our friends.
It's not a terrible idea.
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This is 2012, not the 70s or 80s.
No recruit is going to think highly of Marquette when they are told they have to spend a year living in McCormick. No major programs have their recruits living in dorms anymore.
It's that simple, nothing else to discuss.
And quite frankly, if something isn't done with McCormick in the near future, no high school sophomore or freshman is going to want to live in that cess pool. That dorm is embarrassing.
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This is 2012, not the 70s or 80s.
No recruit is going to think highly of Marquette when they are told they have to spend a year living in McCormick. No major programs have their recruits living in dorms anymore.
It's that simple, nothing else to discuss.
And quite frankly, if something isn't done with McCormick in the near future, no high school sophomore or freshman is going to want to live in that cess pool. That dorm is embarrassing.
just read Basketbawlful or whatever that blog was called, and find out why athletes don't live in the dorms anymore.
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just read Basketbawlful or whatever that blog was called, and find out why athletes don't live in the dorms anymore.
Fact.
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"But it’s perhaps because players are put on this glorified pedestal that situations such as this year’s “Crosstown Shootout” between Xavier University and the University of Cincinnati happen on Dec. 10, 2011."
Perhaps? You want to make wholesale changes in athletic department policies because of what you "think might be the case". Maybe its time for to take Marquette Tribune editors off their pedestal.
"While there are of course many factors in play in this particular instance, we feel the sense of entitlement cultivated by college basketball programs –– especially programs structured in the way both Xavier’s and Marquette’s are, where basketball is the university’s top athletic priority –– encourages behavior that is far outside the norm for regular students, or even regular student-athletes.
And while this example does not mean that Marquette players are exactly the same as Xavier players, we feel the conditions existing could potentially cultivate such problems somewhere down the line."
1. Logic 101. "this example" not only "does not mean that Marquette players are exactly the same as Xavier players", if fails to say anything regarding Marquette players.
2. I am glad that the editors are able to tell us what they "feel". However, if they want to impress me they will tell me what they can "show" or "prove". Nor am I impressed with the idea that changes that the writer "feels" are likely to reduce the kind of conduct exhibited at Xavier should be adopted for Marquette athletes who the writer admits have not been shown to be "exactly the same".
The Xavier Cincinnati fight was a goldmine of possible topics to write about concerning college athletics. The Cincinnati coaches' post game press conference alone had some great angles. And all the Tribune could come up with was this. I'm sad to say that is really pathetic.
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This is probably the dumbest article I've ever read from a university supported newspaper. Whoever wrote this should be terminated immediately.... NCAA is in the midst of implementing a stipend for athletes i.e. giving them some money for living and PLAYING BASKETBALL and our own newspaper comes out with an article about how they're 'put on a pedestal?'. Name one non-mens basketball student that generates millions of dollars over a 5 month period of time? Point-in-fact - these guys are not here to go to school... they're here to promote the school through their god-given basketball talents and provide entertainment, fun, and school pride all in one. In essence they are celebrities... Some of these guys are future NBA players (i.e. celebrities)... They play on NATIONAL TV every week.. THEY ARE CELEBRITIES. Most unintelligent piece of 'journalism' I think I have ever read, and embarrasses me as an alum to have something like that represented in our own newspaper. And makes our communications school look like even more of a disgrace than it really is... Pathetic.
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I am afraid this article is far closer to what the brass think than any of us would like to believe. With the BE changing, the issues at PSU and Syracuse I fear MU will be taking different approach on basketball program moving forward. Everyone laughed at a post earlier this season that stated from Buzz "we need to enjoy this while we can, you never know how long it will last". In my heart I am afraid MU will make a major mistake in upcoming year or two and make us more like SLU than MU.
The politically correct crowd wants their cake and eat it. The basketball team generates so much money for the school it is unreal, yet there are those out there that believe kids across the country are dying to come to our business or engineering schools. Fact is without basketball program the past 40 years MU is not the place it is today.
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Example: Maybe as frosh., the players could live in McCormick.
yes to alleviate sexual assault and fight concerns let's put them in the campus center of sexual assaults and fighting.
I agree with most of what you said and ND's system is pretty cool. As far as I know though they are one of the very few high major D1 schools that still do this.
I have always equated it to the freshman that live in the honors dorm (the nicest on campus btw), the engineering floors at carpenter tower or the Evans scholar house....they just require a different atmosphere because they have a totally different focus than the average freshman on campus.
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yes to alleviate sexual assault and fight concerns let's put them in the campus center of sexual assaults and fighting.
I agree with most of what you said and ND's system is pretty cool. As far as I know though they are one of the very few high major D1 schools that still do this.
I have always equated it to the freshman that live in the honors dorm (the nicest on campus btw), the engineering floors at carpenter tower or the Evans scholar house....they just require a different atmosphere because they have a totally different focus than the average freshman on campus.
Yea, realistically, sticking the players in the dorms with the rest of the Skol chugging frosh. probably isn't the best idea. I like it (in theory), but in real life it might just be too risky especially given the media scrutiny these players are under.
One questionable Twit pic from somebody in the dorms, and it would be everywhere.
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I have always equated it to the freshman that live in the honors dorm (the nicest on campus btw), the engineering floors at carpenter tower or the Evans scholar house....they just require a different atmosphere because they have a totally different focus than the average freshman on campus.
Haha MarqPTM, Robmufan, and myself lived on the engineering floors at Carpenter. I'd guess it was closer to a normal dorm than the honors floors or Evans Scholar house.
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Haha MarqPTM, Robmufan, and myself lived on the engineering floors at Carpenter. I'd guess it was closer to a normal dorm than the honors floors or Evans Scholar house.
Oh I know, I had to live in tower sophomore year and those little pricks broke the elevator weekly. Getting to the 16th floor using the stairs sucked. I'm sure the honors dorms aren't all choir practice either but I get the logic.
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Haha MarqPTM, Robmufan, and myself lived on the engineering floors at Carpenter. I'd guess it was closer to a normal dorm than the honors floors or Evans Scholar house.
Please, please it was terrible. Don't reopen those scars again.
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And quite frankly, if something isn't done with McCormick in the near future, no high school sophomore or freshman is going to want to live in that cess pool. That dorm is embarrassing.
Heard The Keg is gonna come down and a multi level rec plex is going up once the Catholic Knights is converted
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Heard The Keg is gonna come down and a multi level rec plex is going up once the Catholic Knights is converted
Yeah, I've heard the same. It'll be a good move.
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Heard The Keg is gonna come down and a multi level rec plex is going up once the Catholic Knights is converted
Be a good plan.
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Heard The Keg is gonna come down and a multi level rec plex is going up once the Catholic Knights is converted
Great move.
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Whenever I am asked about where I went to school, the conversation never starts or ends on the quality of education at MU. It is always about Basketball and maybe drinking age in the 1980's.
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this had to have been a freshman journalism project from the quality or lack there of. talk about trying to cover your arse and have it both ways yet not speak to any truth, all at the same time. this my friends, is why journalism is a lost profession. i hope this doesn't go much farther than 10th - 18th and clybourn-kilbourn streets. let's just keep it our little secret for the tribune's sake :o
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This is probably the dumbest article I've ever read from a university supported newspaper. Whoever wrote this should be terminated immediately.... NCAA is in the midst of implementing a stipend for athletes i.e. giving them some money for living and PLAYING BASKETBALL and our own newspaper comes out with an article about how they're 'put on a pedestal?'. Name one non-mens basketball student that generates millions of dollars over a 5 month period of time? Point-in-fact - these guys are not here to go to school... they're here to promote the school through their god-given basketball talents and provide entertainment, fun, and school pride all in one. In essence they are celebrities... Some of these guys are future NBA players (i.e. celebrities)... They play on NATIONAL TV every week.. THEY ARE CELEBRITIES. Most unintelligent piece of 'journalism' I think I have ever read, and embarrasses me as an alum to have something like that represented in our own newspaper. And makes our communications school look like even more of a disgrace than it really is... Pathetic.
Chill out, dude! You really want to start firing kids because they happened to write a student newspaper editorial you didn't care for?
If one of the student managers doesn't get DJO a water in a timely manner during a timeout, I guess you'll be advocating the death penalty.
Get ahold of yourself. Keep things in perspective. It's an editorial in a student newspaper. Jeesh.
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Chill out, dude! You really want to start firing kids because they happened to write a student newspaper editorial you didn't care for?
If one of the student managers doesn't get DJO a water in a timely manner during a timeout, I guess you'll be advocating the death penalty.
Get ahold of yourself. Keep things in perspective. It's an editorial in a student newspaper. Jeesh.
Writing editorials on unpopular topics is an act of integrity and courage. However, I believe that this editorial must be the product of bias against the basketball teams because the writer advocates changes after admitting that their is no reason to believe that the problems that they wish to remedy are present at Marquette. They want to take decisions for running the athletic program out of the hands of professionals since "perhaps" there could be a problem sometime, and because they "felt" that it might be a good idea. It's incredibly poor journalism, at best.
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Writing editorials on unpopular topics is an act of integrity and courage. However, I believe that this editorial must be the product of bias against the basketball teams because the writer advocates changes after admitting that their is no reason to believe that the problems that they wish to remedy are present at Marquette. They want to take decisions for running the athletic program out of the hands of professionals since "perhaps" there could be a problem sometime, and because they "felt" that it might be a good idea. It's incredibly poor journalism, at best.
It is not really an act of integrity and courage when you don't own up to it.
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It is not really an act of integrity and courage when you don't own up to it.
The point I was trying to make was that that wasn't the case here, and the reaction to the editorial was not just knee jerk reaction by fans to advocating changes in the program.
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OK, let's say every charge against the writer(s) is correct. He/she is a bad writer who had a bad idea and offered bad examples in making bad points and just did a bad job, period.
He/she wasn't attacking Marquette athletes. There was no libel, no slander. The writer(s) did absolutely nothing to get fired ... other than write a piece that some people don't like.
It's college. It's a school newspaper. It's a learning lab. Somebody with potential as a writer who really wants to be a better journalist will use this experience to get better. That's what college is for.
I worked at the Tribune 1,000 years ago. Looking back, most of us on the staff sucked -- present company included. Those of us who cared enough improved ... just as some basketball players who suck but care enough to improve do so.
Again ... chill and keep things in perspective, please.
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If the goal of an editorial is to create discussion and generate reads, this article certainly did its job as evidenced by a thread with over 100 responses...
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OK, let's say every charge against the writer(s) is correct. He/she is a bad writer who had a bad idea and offered bad examples in making bad points and just did a bad job, period.
He/she wasn't attacking Marquette athletes. There was no libel, no slander. The writer(s) did absolutely nothing to get fired ... other than write a piece that some people don't like.
It's college. It's a school newspaper. It's a learning lab. Somebody with potential as a writer who really wants to be a better journalist will use this experience to get better. That's what college is for.
I worked at the Tribune 1,000 years ago. Looking back, most of us on the staff sucked -- present company included. Those of us who cared enough improved ... just as some basketball players who suck but care enough to improve do so.
Again ... chill and keep things in perspective, please.
Agreed.
The topic itself could be interesting. The writing and the logic used were vague and borderline inflammatory.
There was a good editorial buried in there, and unfortunately the student editors weren't able to bring that out. That's part of being a student newspaper, I suppose. They might miss the mark sometimes.
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This just in: The Jesuits are returning their car fleet to Bergey, citing a conflict of interest with their vows of poverty.
Do Jesuits take a vow of poverty? Don't think they do
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Do Jesuits take a vow of poverty? Don't think they do
If they take the perpetual vows, then indeed they do.
http://onlineministries.creighton.edu/CollaborativeMinistry/becomingajesuit.html
http://www.jesuits.ca/join-us/vows
http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/dictionary/index.cfm?id=35533
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This is probably the dumbest article I've ever read from a university supported newspaper. Whoever wrote this should be terminated immediately.... NCAA is in the midst of implementing a stipend for athletes i.e. giving them some money for living and PLAYING BASKETBALL and our own newspaper comes out with an article about how they're 'put on a pedestal?'. Name one non-mens basketball student that generates millions of dollars over a 5 month period of time? Point-in-fact - these guys are not here to go to school... they're here to promote the school through their god-given basketball talents and provide entertainment, fun, and school pride all in one. In essence they are celebrities... Some of these guys are future NBA players (i.e. celebrities)... They play on NATIONAL TV every week.. THEY ARE CELEBRITIES. Most unintelligent piece of 'journalism' I think I have ever read, and embarrasses me as an alum to have something like that represented in our own newspaper. And makes our communications school look like even more of a disgrace than it really is... Pathetic.
That is the case at Marquette, but what about at 200 (at least) DI schools where the players don't make millions of collars for the school.
When you say these guys are not here to go to school, that is a statement that doesn't sit well with me or many others. They are here to go to school. They are here to get a degree. They are here to play basketball, but it's all of the above. This is not the minor leagues. Most of our guys will not be going on to play professional basketball. Instead, basketball is a vehicle for them to get a free education, travel the country, get access to people that most of us wouldn't. But they are certainly not here to only play basketball. We are fortunate to have a high major DI program, but there are 350+ DI basketball programs and most do not make millions of dollars. That doesn't even begin to address the DII, DIII NAIA and other associations where student athletes are playing their various sports.
The article has many problems, most of which been mentioned here. However, their core point is a good one. As a society, we put them up on a pedestal. We make them out to be bigger than life. We are the ones that start attacking coeds at MU because they dared to accuse some basketball players of sexual assault. If the accused was an Engineering student that didn't play ball would anyone give a crap? We all know the answer is no, or certainly we know that we wouldn't be bashing the coeds for taking down an Engineering student. That's the situation I think the editors were trying to get at, but they took a strange path to get there.
You also have to take the article in stride based on who is reading it. Don't think for a second that the 50% plus MU students that could not care less about men's hoops or athletics in general don't believe almost every word of that editorial. We're here on a sports board so we are bias as to the benefits of sports. The general populace is not that sympathetic and feels athletic teams and star athletes are put on a pedestal, from high school on up. To ignore this would be wrong. We all know stories of our own personal histories of athletes getting away with things that you and I couldn't. Whether it was an inflated grade in high school, a prank that would have suspended everyone but the star athlete, extra "stuff" for the star athlete, along with a number of other things. That rubs some people the wrong way. For others, it's just the cost of doing business in a win at all costs society.
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I think the Jesuits shouldn't be allowed to live in the Jes Res seperated from the rest of the Marquette community. What have they done to get their own place with a private garden? They should have to live in the dorms like everyone else!
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It is a topic worthy of discussion. We are discussing it. They took a bold stance. I can see their argument and remember when the freshman basketball players lived at McCormick with the rest of us. So student writers wrote a less than perfect editorial. 5 pages worth of vitriol says more about us than it does about the editorial writers. Let it go.
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worst op ed since some kid trashed "Sam's Town" back in 06'
First The Killers, now The Men's Basketball Program! What is wrong with this university / newspaper?
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If they take the perpetual vows, then indeed they do.
http://onlineministries.creighton.edu/CollaborativeMinistry/becomingajesuit.html
http://www.jesuits.ca/join-us/vows
http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/dictionary/index.cfm?id=35533
Seems some priests do and others do not. Appreciate the links.
Dioscean priests don't take a vow of poverty typically.
Religious orders or communities typically do. Franciscans certainly do. Redemptorists can hold property and have a will to leave property to whomever he wishes. Wasn't sure about the Jebbies.
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Seems some priests do and others do not. Appreciate the links.
Dioscean priests don't take a vow of poverty typically.
Religious orders or communities typically do. Franciscans certainly do. Redemptorists can hold property and have a will to leave property to whomever he wishes. Wasn't sure about the Jebbies.
And the word poverty in my research seems a bit outdated, and many advocate now a "simple" lifestyle, rather than one of poverty. But appreciate the additional thoughts.
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OK, let's say every charge against the writer(s) is correct. He/she is a bad writer who had a bad idea and offered bad examples in making bad points and just did a bad job, period.
He/she wasn't attacking Marquette athletes. There was no libel, no slander. The writer(s) did absolutely nothing to get fired ... other than write a piece that some people don't like.
It's college. It's a school newspaper. It's a learning lab. Somebody with potential as a writer who really wants to be a better journalist will use this experience to get better. That's what college is for.
I worked at the Tribune 1,000 years ago. Looking back, most of us on the staff sucked -- present company included. Those of us who cared enough improved ... just as some basketball players who suck but care enough to improve do so.
Again ... chill and keep things in perspective, please.
Agree 100%.
This is basically a naive, "wouldn't it be great if..." kind of editorial one would (should?) expect from college students. If they're still not looking for the rather obvious unintended consequences of their utopias 10 years down the road...not so good.
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I think the Jesuits shouldn't be allowed to live in the Jes Res seperated from the rest of the Marquette community. What have they done to get their own place with a private garden? They should have to live in the dorms like everyone else!
Awesome.
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OK, let's say every charge against the writer(s) is correct. He/she is a bad writer who had a bad idea and offered bad examples in making bad points and just did a bad job, period.
He/she wasn't attacking Marquette athletes. There was no libel, no slander. The writer(s) did absolutely nothing to get fired ... other than write a piece that some people don't like.
It's college. It's a school newspaper. It's a learning lab. Somebody with potential as a writer who really wants to be a better journalist will use this experience to get better. That's what college is for.
I worked at the Tribune 1,000 years ago. Looking back, most of us on the staff sucked -- present company included. Those of us who cared enough improved ... just as some basketball players who suck but care enough to improve do so.
Again ... chill and keep things in perspective, please.
I agree with you, but shouldn't there be a point where somebody tells he/she that this piece needs a lot of improvements and won't be printed. It is not like this article coincided with any special event that it needed to be rushed to print.
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I agree with you, but shouldn't there be a point where somebody tells he/she that this piece needs a lot of improvements and won't be printed. It is not like this article coincided with any special event that it needed to be rushed to print.
In the Tribune's defense (certainly not an excuse), the turnaround from winter break, dealing with different deadlines and finding sources over a holiday weekend made this a hectic issue to get ready for print for the editors. Again, not an excuse, but things were different following break.
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worst op ed since some kid trashed "Sam's Town" back in 06'
First The Killers, now The Men's Basketball Program! What is wrong with this university / newspaper?
I worked at the Trib in '06 and the "Sam's Town" review in Marquee was very positive. Maybe I missed an Op-ed that someone wrote though.
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That is the case at Marquette, but what about at 200 (at least) DI schools where the players don't make millions of collars for the school.
When you say these guys are not here to go to school, that is a statement that doesn't sit well with me or many others. They are here to go to school. They are here to get a degree. They are here to play basketball, but it's all of the above. This is not the minor leagues. Most of our guys will not be going on to play professional basketball. Instead, basketball is a vehicle for them to get a free education, travel the country, get access to people that most of us wouldn't. But they are certainly not here to only play basketball. We are fortunate to have a high major DI program, but there are 350+ DI basketball programs and most do not make millions of dollars. That doesn't even begin to address the DII, DIII NAIA and other associations where student athletes are playing their various sports.
The article has many problems, most of which been mentioned here. However, their core point is a good one. As a society, we put them up on a pedestal. We make them out to be bigger than life. We are the ones that start attacking coeds at MU because they dared to accuse some basketball players of sexual assault. If the accused was an Engineering student that didn't play ball would anyone give a crap? We all know the answer is no, or certainly we know that we wouldn't be bashing the coeds for taking down an Engineering student. That's the situation I think the editors were trying to get at, but they took a strange path to get there.
You also have to take the article in stride based on who is reading it. Don't think for a second that the 50% plus MU students that could not care less about men's hoops or athletics in general don't believe almost every word of that editorial. We're here on a sports board so we are bias as to the benefits of sports. The general populace is not that sympathetic and feels athletic teams and star athletes are put on a pedestal, from high school on up. To ignore this would be wrong. We all know stories of our own personal histories of athletes getting away with things that you and I couldn't. Whether it was an inflated grade in high school, a prank that would have suspended everyone but the star athlete, extra "stuff" for the star athlete, along with a number of other things. That rubs some people the wrong way. For others, it's just the cost of doing business in a win at all costs society.
The problem is, you can't have it both ways.
"Let's not put them on a pedestal."
Great. It's actually pretty easy. No more national TV. No more large arena. Play games at the Al, and become more like Loyola.
Done.
If there are students who feel the basketball players are put on too high of a pedestal, and they really don't care for it, they could/should attend a D3 school (or loyola).
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I don't have time to read five pages worth of responses, but I think some students should back down for the basketball players' sake. These guys are college students. Their off-the-court experiences should not be influenced by their play on the court.
A quick "good game guys!" doesn't hurt, but students asking for autographs is WAY over the top. At the end of the day, these guys take the same classes as non-athletes everyday.
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It is a topic worthy of discussion. We are discussing it. They took a bold stance. I can see their argument and remember when the freshman basketball players lived at McCormick with the rest of us. So student writers wrote a less than perfect editorial. 5 pages worth of vitriol says more about us than it does about the editorial writers. Let it go.
When I was a freshman, Brian Brunkhorst and Jimmy Burke were junior starters on the basketball team. They lived on 4South at Schroeder with me and 37 other guys. They played softball on our intramural team and when we lost the championship game they bought a couple cases of beer and hosted a party in their room. When the RA knocked on the door to break up the party (drinking was verboten in the dorms then), Brian told him to join us or f#@k off. So I'm all about the "good old days" when the athletes were more a part of the student body. It's a worthwhile topic of discussion - sometimes the "good old days" really were just that - but the only way that genie's going back in the bottle is if MU basketball becomes Ripon basketball.
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I don't have time to read five pages worth of responses, but I think some students should back down for the basketball players' sake. These guys are college students. Their off-the-court experiences should not be influenced by their play on the court.
A quick "good game guys!" doesn't hurt, but students asking for autographs is WAY over the top. At the end of the day, these guys take the same classes as non-athletes everyday.
Seriously? Does that actually happen? Wow. The basketball team lived in McCormick with us my freshman year. I shared a meal or two with Joe Nethen in the cafeteria and lived to tell about it. I got to know several of the basketball players a little bit in my four years at Marquette. It never even crossed my mind to even consider asking for an autograph.
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Seriously? Does that actually happen? Wow. The basketball team lived in McCormick with us my freshman year. I shared a meal or two with Joe Nethen in the cafeteria and lived to tell about it. I got to know several of the basketball players a little bit in my four years at Marquette. It never even crossed my mind to even consider asking for an autograph.
If you're over 12 and asking for an autograph, you might be a loser. I lump them into the same group of people that are over 12 and bring a baseball mitt into the stadium.
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If you're over 12 and asking for an autograph, you might be a loser. I lump them into the same group of people that over 12 and bring a baseball mitt into the stadium.
I probably shouldn't go here...
...or over 12 and wear a replica jersey.
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The problem is, you can't have it both ways.
"Let's not put them on a pedestal."
Great. It's actually pretty easy. No more national TV. No more large arena. Play games at the Al, and become more like Loyola.
Done.
If there are students who feel the basketball players are put on too high of a pedestal, and they really don't care for it, they could/should attend a D3 school (or loyola).
Please be more specific --- which Loyola? There's something like fifty-two of them.
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If you're over 12 and asking for an autograph, you might be a loser. I lump them into the same group of people that are over 12 and bring a baseball mitt into the stadium.
Interesting.... I lump the people who sit with their children in foul ball territory and don't bring a mitt into an even lesser category -- child abusers, people who lock their kids in closets, drunken co-sleepers, etc.
Frankly, I'd rather be called a loser than any of those things.
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When I was a freshman, Brian Brunkhorst and Jimmy Burke were junior starters on the basketball team. They lived on 4South at Schroeder with me and 37 other guys. They played softball on our intramural team and when we lost the championship game they bought a couple cases of beer and hosted a party in their room. When the RA knocked on the door to break up the party (drinking was verboten in the dorms then), Brian told him to join us or f#@k off. So I'm all about the "good old days" when the athletes were more a part of the student body. It's a worthwhile topic of discussion - sometimes the "good old days" really were just that - but the only way that genie's going back in the bottle is if MU basketball becomes Ripon basketball.
I love this, and I wish it could be that way now. However, with modern media and social networking, it probably isn't a good idea. Plus, the last thing we need is Davante shredding his knee trying to leg out a triple in intramural softball.
Too bad, really. Maybe MU could come up with some new ways to get/keep the players integrated with the other students.
Pep rallies and BBQ's and such are great, but that still reinforces the player/fan relationship rather than the student/student relationship.
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That is the case at Marquette, but what about at 200 (at least) DI schools where the players don't make millions of collars for the school.
When you say these guys are not here to go to school, that is a statement that doesn't sit well with me or many others. They are here to go to school. They are here to get a degree. They are here to play basketball, but it's all of the above. This is not the minor leagues. Most of our guys will not be going on to play professional basketball. Instead, basketball is a vehicle for them to get a free education, travel the country, get access to people that most of us wouldn't. But they are certainly not here to only play basketball. We are fortunate to have a high major DI program, but there are 350+ DI basketball programs and most do not make millions of dollars. That doesn't even begin to address the DII, DIII NAIA and other associations where student athletes are playing their various sports.
The article has many problems, most of which been mentioned here. However, their core point is a good one. As a society, we put them up on a pedestal. We make them out to be bigger than life. We are the ones that start attacking coeds at MU because they dared to accuse some basketball players of sexual assault. If the accused was an Engineering student that didn't play ball would anyone give a crap? We all know the answer is no, or certainly we know that we wouldn't be bashing the coeds for taking down an Engineering student. That's the situation I think the editors were trying to get at, but they took a strange path to get there.
You also have to take the article in stride based on who is reading it. Don't think for a second that the 50% plus MU students that could not care less about men's hoops or athletics in general don't believe almost every word of that editorial. We're here on a sports board so we are bias as to the benefits of sports. The general populace is not that sympathetic and feels athletic teams and star athletes are put on a pedestal, from high school on up. To ignore this would be wrong. We all know stories of our own personal histories of athletes getting away with things that you and I couldn't. Whether it was an inflated grade in high school, a prank that would have suspended everyone but the star athlete, extra "stuff" for the star athlete, along with a number of other things. That rubs some people the wrong way. For others, it's just the cost of doing business in a win at all costs society.
Hey Hoopaloopa... Thanks for the novel... We get it, you think they are here to go to school, and to get a degree and all the above bs. Point - in - case = THEY ARE HERE TO PLAY BASKETBALL. You couldn't be more ignorant if you believe they don't go on to play professionally. I challenge you to find a recent MU player that didn't/isn't playing professionally (i.e. ABROAD, D-Leauge, NBA, or other) after graduation... Yes, they are student-athletes, yes there should be a standard set for minimum grade performance. The trend of basketball players from MU playing professionally ultimately proves that THIS IS THE MINOR LEAGUES and that their FUTURE PROFESSIONAL ATHLETES THEREFORE, celebrities and is okay to be treated as such on campus with their own housing/facilities/dining halls etc. etc. etc.
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Seriously? Does that actually happen? Wow. The basketball team lived in McCormick with us my freshman year. I shared a meal or two with Joe Nethen in the cafeteria and lived to tell about it. I got to know several of the basketball players a little bit in my four years at Marquette. It never even crossed my mind to even consider asking for an autograph.
Terrell Schlundt, Michael Wilson, Dean Marquardt. All lived in McCormick, all turned out to be regular guys. I think it would be great to go back to those days, But....college students expectations are much higher now. Even regular students b*tch about McCormick. They all want individual bathrooms and a/c. Scholarship athletes know that all the big time programs offer special facilities. MU needs to compete or die.
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Interesting.... I lump the people who sit with their children in foul ball territory and don't bring a mitt into an even lesser category -- child abusers, people who lock their kids in closets, drunken co-sleepers, etc.
Frankly, I'd rather be called a loser than any of those things.
Certainly there are exceptions. Or you catch the ball in your cup of beer.
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Seriously? Does that actually happen? Wow. The basketball team lived in McCormick with us my freshman year. I shared a meal or two with Joe Nethen in the cafeteria and lived to tell about it. I got to know several of the basketball players a little bit in my four years at Marquette. It never even crossed my mind to even consider asking for an autograph.
It absolutely happens, mostly in situations like after MU Madness or around the Al. I've never seen anybody pull a sharpie out on the street, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's been done before. Let's hope for all of our sake that it hasn't.
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It doesn't happen even close to as much as people on here (EDIT) think.
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It doesn't happen even close to as much as people on here are saying.
I haven't seen anyone here even take a stab at saying how much it happens...so I'm not sure what to make of your comment.
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It absolutely happens, mostly in situations like after MU Madness or around the Al. I've never seen anybody pull a sharpie out on the street, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's been done before. Let's hope for all of our sake that it hasn't.
I used to pass one of Dominic, Crean, Ousmane, Novak, Fitz & Wes almost daily one semester just the way schedules line up, I suppose. Not once did I ever consider asking for an autograph, and I never saw another student for one either, but while I think it does happen, like Strotty I would guess it happens much less frequently than many believe.
Heck, as a GA I came across more than several of Wes' and Fitz's homework assignments. It never occurred to me to do anything but my job and record their grades just like everyone else. Although, I'm sure the TA/GA's at UConn, KY, Syracuse, etc. don't have as high standards as we did. Not that it would have mattered any way.... Dan and Wes did quite well on their own.
Not sure where this whole "glorifying" the MU athlete thing came from and what it has to do with UC-X, but I've never seen students fawning over MBB players. Heck, I've seen more fawning over the WBB players on this board then I ever did in my days on campus.
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Aside from autograph sessions at Marquette Madness, not once did I see a student ask a player for an autograph.
I don't think this happens at all.
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Aside from autograph sessions at Marquette Madness, not once did I see a student ask a player for an autograph.
I don't think this happens at all.
Yeah, in my four years at MU I only saw it at Marquette Madness
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My freshman year (2007), there was an autograph session at a kickoff type picnic at the start of the semester. But as others have said, I can't ever remember a player walking around campus and being asked an autograph.
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Anybody ever seen Adam Corolla's rant on OWS? Kind of says the same thing with people's sense of entitlement.... the thought of "If i can't have what you have then you shouldn't have it either".
If you really want to see it, go to youtube and type in adam corolla rant... didn't want to post it here since there's some seedy language ha
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I'd bet it was some Scooper that's trolling the whole MU basketball community that wrote it. "Staff." Lol.
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Hey Hoopaloopa... Thanks for the novel... We get it, you think they are here to go to school, and to get a degree and all the above bs. Point - in - case = THEY ARE HERE TO PLAY BASKETBALL. You couldn't be more ignorant if you believe they don't go on to play professionally. I challenge you to find a recent MU player that didn't/isn't playing professionally (i.e. ABROAD, D-Leauge, NBA, or other) after graduation... Yes, they are student-athletes, yes there should be a standard set for minimum grade performance. The trend of basketball players from MU playing professionally ultimately proves that THIS IS THE MINOR LEAGUES and that their FUTURE PROFESSIONAL ATHLETES THEREFORE, celebrities and is okay to be treated as such on campus with their own housing/facilities/dining halls etc. etc. etc.
You said in your first rant that all these guys are here to play basketball only. You have a myopic view of college basketball then. There are almost 350 DI schools and most of them the players aren't there to play basketball only. Most of the programs do not make millions of dollars as you claim either. Some guys on the MU team certainly would play basketball only if that was their choice, but fortunately MU makes them attend classes and at least attempt to get a degree. This isn't the case say at WVU or UNLV or some other schools.
Did you realize that Oregon makes $3 million in revenue in basketball? They are ranked 73rd in revenue rankings with more than 275 schools below them in revenue, do you still want to stick to your claims that these guys are making millions for their schools when about half of the programs in DI don't even make $1 million and another 25% make less than $2 million. Your myopic view triangulates on a few schools and then you make broad statements to lump everyone in together.
I never once mentioned anything about their own housing, dining halls or anything else.
A recent player that didn't play elsewhere after graduation? Define recent? The reality for almost all of our players is that few will make it to the NBA and only a few others will be able to play ball enough after school to make a decent long term living out of it. They need something to fall back on, which is why they are here.
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The problem is, you can't have it both ways.
"Let's not put them on a pedestal."
Great. It's actually pretty easy. No more national TV. No more large arena. Play games at the Al, and become more like Loyola.
Done.
If there are students who feel the basketball players are put on too high of a pedestal, and they really don't care for it, they could/should attend a D3 school (or loyola).
So if a student wanted a high quality Physical Therapy education at Marquette he or she should not consider Marquette because of the basketball program? That sounds crazy to me.
The reality is that most students don't care about sports much to let it influence their choice of schools. To suggest someone shouldn't go to a school because they disagree with how the athletes are treated seems odd to me. They have every right to go to that school and be against how college athletes are treated if they wish. There is a reason why a number of the players are not liked on campus, two of them in particular. My question to some of you would be why? Is it mere jealousy and envy? Or is it their actions and the entitlement that they bring with them?
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Classic Chicos double post
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So if a student wanted a high quality Physical Therapy education at Marquette he or she should not consider Marquette because of the basketball program? That sounds crazy to me.
The reality is that most students don't care about sports much to let it influence their choice of schools. To suggest someone shouldn't go to a school because they disagree with how the athletes are treated seems odd to me. They have every right to go to that school and be against how college athletes are treated if they wish. There is a reason why a number of the players are not liked on campus, two of them in particular. My question to some of you would be why? Is it mere jealousy and envy? Or is it their actions and the entitlement that they bring with them?
Well, if the treatment of the players bothers somebody so much, then yes, I think it can/should influence their college decision.
Put it this way: I knew at 18, that I didn't really like the greek system. Therefore, going to a school that had a huge greek population wasn't a good option for me.
Easy.
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I first heard of Marquette because of the basketball team. Watching the 77 championship was about the 3rd time my parents ever let me stay up late to watch a sporting event. I chose MU because (A) the other schools I visited gave arrogant presentations, (B) I, too, loathed the greek system, and (C) the basketball.
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I grew up 1000 miles away from Milwaukee and wouldn't have known Marquette existed if not for the basketball team. And I'm sure that I'm just one of thousands -- tens of thousands? -- who otherwise never would have considered the school.
So for anyone to deny that the basketball program has a unique role, and therefore deserves unique treatment, is simply not being honest.
The intentions of the Tribune editorial were good, because in an ideal world, sure, it would be swell if basketball players interacted more with the general student body. As many posters pointed out, however, that is unrealistic in today's college sports environment.
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I grew up in Milwaukee, so I knew about Marquette, but didn't look at it seriously out of HS, largely because of the money. When I did decide, there were three main factors: name recognition of the school, family history (uncle and cousin went there), and the basketball program.
I imagine that at least 90% of our out-of-state male students first heard of Marquette because of our basketball program. Wouldn't surprise me if that number was about the same in-state.
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I imagine that at least 90% of our out-of-state male students first heard of Marquette because of our basketball program. Wouldn't surprise me if that number was about the same in-state.
I think the single biggest factor for out of state students is the Jesuit/Catholic thing. That's what brought me from 1500 miles away and I'd venture a guess that the out of state students have a higher percentage that are Catholic or from Catholic high schools than the in-state. Catholic high schools -- especially Jesuit high schools -- send a lot of kids to Jesuit universities.
I think that a strong sports program is very important for a university to get its name out there, but not necessarily in a specific sense that people go there because of that program, I think that those of us on this board substantially overestimate the importance of the basketball program to the average student/alumni. Most of the people in the local MU club (even the ones I talk to at the MU game viewing parties) think I'm a little bit nuts because I follow th e program as closely as I do. I think those of us on this board are a very small, self-selected minority of MU students and alums.
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I think that a strong sports program is very important for a university to get its name out there, but not necessarily in a specific sense that people go there because of that program, I think that those of us on this board substantially overestimate the importance of the basketball program to the average student/alumni.
I first heard of Marquette when they were in the NIT finals and my dad joked that I would be excommunicated if I didn't root for the Warriors. But StillAWarrior is correct in that good basketball doesn't guarantee higher (or better quality) enrollment. Butler, for example, actually had to undergo significant budget cuts in the 2011-2012 school year because they did not hit their enrollment targets - after back-to-back championship game appearances. As I heard someone say, "A good team might get people onto the front porch, but they still have to walk through the door."
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The New York Times ran a fascinating piece on a related, although different, topic.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/education/edlife/how-big-time-sports-ate-college-life.html?_r=2&pagewanted=all (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/education/edlife/how-big-time-sports-ate-college-life.html?_r=2&pagewanted=all)
It's a double edged sword no matter which way you go about it.
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I think the single biggest factor for out of state students is the Jesuit/Catholic thing. That's what brought me from 1500 miles away and I'd venture a guess that the out of state students have a higher percentage that are Catholic or from Catholic high schools than the in-state. Catholic high schools -- especially Jesuit high schools -- send a lot of kids to Jesuit universities.
I'm not saying the basketball program is the main reason people come here. I'm just saying that's the first place many prospective students hear about us. You may go to a Catholic high school 1500 miles away, but when they start showing you options and you see the name Marquette, my bet is most people that follow any amount of sports have at least heard the name in connection with the basketball team.
I'm not at all saying it's going to be the deciding factor, but it may help sway some in our direction over Detroit, Fairfield, San Francisco, or some other far-off Jesuit school.
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Classic Chicos double post
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Well, if the treatment of the players bothers somebody so much, then yes, I think it can/should influence their college decision.
Put it this way: I knew at 18, that I didn't really like the greek system. Therefore, going to a school that had a huge greek population wasn't a good option for me.
Easy.
How would a high school senior know what the treatment of the players is at a particular school? It's easy to find out the importance of the greek system of a school as it is generally listed in most college review guides. I've never seen anything of the sort on how athletes are treated.
Part of the problem with this discussion is that we are so skewed in our opinions. The general populace at Marquette doesn't care about athletics like we do and their choosing of a school, MU or any other, is not going to be influenced because a smaller segment of the student population or a bunch of old dudes on a message board follow 18-22 year olds around along with their every move. If the basketball team was as universally loved by the entire student body like it is here, we would sell out every game. We would have 10,000 student ticket sales, not 4,500 or whatever the latest number is. We are in the minority.
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How would a high school senior know what the treatment of the players is at a particular school? It's easy to find out the importance of the greek system of a school as it is generally listed in most college review guides. I've never seen anything of the sort on how athletes are treated.
Part of the problem with this discussion is that we are so skewed in our opinions. The general populace at Marquette doesn't care about athletics like we do and their choosing of a school, MU or any other, is not going to be influenced because a smaller segment of the student population or a bunch of old dudes on a message board follow 18-22 year olds around along with their every move. If the basketball team was as universally loved by the entire student body like it is here, we would sell out every game. We would have 10,000 student ticket sales, not 4,500 or whatever the latest number is. We are in the minority.
I think it's pretty easy, actually. If at 18, you find yourself really bothered (bothered enough to write an op ed piece) by the attention your high school football and hockey/basketball/lacrosse/soccer/etc. team gets, then you should probably go to a college that doesn't have D1 athletics.
Easy.
I don't expect EVERY MU student to LOVE basketball. I don't even care. I just find it curious that it really bothers some students how the basketball team lives.
The opposite of love isn't hate, it's indifference.
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I applaud people taking a stance on issues that concern them, but I find it ignorant if people take a stance without getting all the facts write.
The editorial acts as if the sports teams are the only ones that get special consideration in housing, food and studies.
Last I checked, most schools have fraternities, sororities, honors colleges, engineering schools etc that get their own special dorms (often time significantly nicer than anyone else). They also get their own cafeterias (often inside their own special dorm/housing).
Also, with fraternities and sororities they have their own study areas complete with archives of tests and papers from the last decade or more of their members.
To act as if athletes at universities are the only ones who get access to these kind of things is ridiculous and to write like it is either means you are ignorant or have an agenda.
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I applaud people taking a stance on issues that concern them, but I find it ignorant if people take a stance without getting all the facts write.
I found this sentence to be funny in an ironic kind of way.
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I found this sentence to be funny in an ironic kind of way.
It just doesn't make any cents.
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I first heard of Marquette when watching a Bulls game on TV in the early-90's. They were playing the Bucks at the Bradley Center and I asked my parents why it said Marquette on the court.
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No matter where you live, if you want to go to a Jesuit school, you don't need to go 1500 miles (or more). You've got BC in the northeast, Georgetown in the DC area, San Fran and Gonzaga out west, Loyola of New Orleans in the south, a whole bunch of other choices in various parts of the midwest, etc.
The Jesuit deal is one reason to go to Marquette, as is basketball, as is location in a major metro area, as are the high-ranked programs such as engineering and dentistry, and so on.
I'm not Catholic and didn't know what a Jesuit was when I signed up to go to MU sight-unseen. If not for hoops, I wouldn't have known Marquette even existed. And I don't think I was that rare of a beast.
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No matter where you live, if you want to go to a Jesuit school, you don't need to go 1500 miles (or more). You've got BC in the northeast, Georgetown in the DC area, San Fran and Gonzaga out west, Loyola of New Orleans in the south, a whole bunch of other choices in various parts of the midwest, etc.
The Jesuit deal is one reason to go to Marquette, as is basketball, as is location in a major metro area, as are the high-ranked programs such as engineering and dentistry, and so on.
I'm not Catholic and didn't know what a Jesuit was when I signed up to go to MU sight-unseen. If not for hoops, I wouldn't have known Marquette even existed. And I don't think I was that rare of a beast.
I agree that it's not rare. All I'm saying is that there are a lot of kids who are Catholic and/or in Catholic/Jesuit High Schools and their college search starts (and ends) with a list of Catholic and/or Jesuit colleges.
I'm not suggesting that there is one way that people end up at Marquette or first hear about Marquette. I think a lot of kids had a similar experience to mine, just like a lot of other kids had an experience similar to those who first learned about Marquette because of the basketball team.
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I think it's pretty easy, actually. If at 18, you find yourself really bothered (bothered enough to write an op ed piece) by the attention your high school football and hockey/basketball/lacrosse/soccer/etc. team gets, then you should probably go to a college that doesn't have D1 athletics.
Easy.
I don't expect EVERY MU student to LOVE basketball. I don't even care. I just find it curious that it really bothers some students how the basketball team lives.
The opposite of love isn't hate, it's indifference.
I see where you are coming from, but I don't agree with your conclusion. It sounds like you are saying to just not deal with it. Instead, my view is people should go where they want to go, especially if the university has a quality program in your area of study. Or maybe these students can institute change or feel as though they can.
If I don't like a state because it is too conservative or too liberal, should I not take a really good job there so I don't have to deal with the politics of the citizenry? What if there is a controversial professor like MU's McAdams or MU's McGuire, should they put the university on their cross off list because of them?
We just differ on this. Athletics was important for me in choosing MU. It had no bearing on choosing Purdue, the academic program did. For a great number of students, athletics has no importance in their decision or sometimes has too much importance in how the various teams are treated. They have every right to come to MU and express their displeasure if they wish. It can change an institution, sometimes for the better. Vanderbilt is such an example
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If I don't like a state because it is too conservative or too liberal, should I not take a really good job there so I don't have to deal with the politics of the citizenry?
Having buyer's remorse over taking that television gig in CA?
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The editorial acts as if the sports teams are the only ones that get special consideration in housing, food and studies.
Last I checked, most schools have fraternities, sororities, honors colleges, engineering schools etc that get their own special dorms (often time significantly nicer than anyone else). They also get their own cafeterias (often inside their own special dorm/housing).
Also, with fraternities and sororities they have their own study areas complete with archives of tests and papers from the last decade or more of their members.
To act as if athletes at universities are the only ones who get access to these kind of things is ridiculous and to write like it is either means you are ignorant or have an agenda.
I understand that the Honors dorm in the old Y (sorry I don't know what it is called) is highly sought after. Should that kind of favoritism be eliminated?
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I see where you are coming from, but I don't agree with your conclusion. It sounds like you are saying to just not deal with it. Instead, my view is people should go where they want to go, especially if the university has a quality program in your area of study. Or maybe these students can institute change or feel as though they can.
If I don't like a state because it is too conservative or too liberal, should I not take a really good job there so I don't have to deal with the politics of the citizenry? What if there is a controversial professor like MU's McAdams or MU's McGuire, should they put the university on their cross off list because of them?
We just differ on this. Athletics was important for me in choosing MU. It had no bearing on choosing Purdue, the academic program did. For a great number of students, athletics has no importance in their decision or sometimes has too much importance in how the various teams are treated. They have every right to come to MU and express their displeasure if they wish. It can change an institution, sometimes for the better. Vanderbilt is such an example
They have a "right" to have any opinion they want, and that's fine.
I'm merely saying that a private institution has a right/ability to operate as it chooses inside of the law (and NCAA in this case).
I could write op-ed pieces every week DEMANDING that MU start a women's field hockey program.
But, it would probably just be easier to go to a school that has already has field hockey, if I love it so much, right?
I'm not saying people shouldn't voice their opinion, but in my mind, MU's players aren't treated so extravagantly that other students should take issue with it.