Way Too Early 2019/20 Pre-Season Predictions

[muguru]

The definition of things being fluky is that they aren't the rule. No program consistently turns 3-star kids into NBA all-timers. No program consistently pulls coaches off the scrap heap of history and sends them to the Hall of Fame.

What you are describing is Duke or Kentucky. Maybe you could stretch it to Kansas and UNC, but that's about it. And that takes years to achieve. At Duke, it took K 5 years of disappointing results before he consistently reached the level you are calling for. It took Villanova 15 years with Jay Wright. It took Gonzaga closer to 20 with Mark Few.

If you want a top-5 program, you better be willing to suck it up for a decade or two with the same coach before you start to see those results. And understand that until you have put 10-20 years in, you still won't really know if they will get you to the promised land. Hell, there were calls to fire Jay Wright after he had been in Philly for 12 years. That's the kind of commitment an elite program requires. So if you truly want the program to be elite, the only thing you can do is be patient and hope. Because it will probably be another 5-10 years before we have any real clarity on the heights Wojo can take us to, and who knows if he'll even be here that long?

Again Brew...I think you're missing my point...this is NOT about MU being like those other schools in regards to the "patience etc", it's about wanting to see them blazing a new trail, laying down the path for quicker success at an elite level. Pay Coaches more than anyone else pays them(by a decent margin), build the BEST facilities(practice arena, dorms, weight rooms, etc), in the country, stay ahead of the curve, always..Give the Coaches WHATEVER they need to be successful at the highest level(within the rules of the NCAA)..."whatever you want/need, I will get it for you". Make it THE place where the 5 star recruits want to come in droves, make it the talk of the college basketball world(positive publicity). If you build it...they will come.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Again Brew...I think you're missing my point...this is NOT about MU being like those other schools in regards to the "patience etc", it's about wanting to see them blazing a new trail, laying down the path for quicker success at an elite level. Pay Coaches more than anyone else pays them(by a decent margin), build the BEST facilities(practice arena, dorms, weight rooms, etc), in the country, stay ahead of the curve, always..Give the Coaches WHATEVER they need to be successful at the highest level(within the rules of the NCAA)..."whatever you want/need, I will get it for you". Make it THE place where the 5 star recruits want to come in droves, make it the talk of the college basketball world(positive publicity). If you build it...they will come.

What happens when you do all that and the big name coach still doesn't come? Because we would probably get someone good but not the level you'd be hoping for.

What happens when you do hire someone good and then the results are still mediocre? Just because you hire someone who was good in the past doesn't mean that they will work at the next position.

You seem to believe that if you throw enough money at the program they will be successful. I've watched TU just down the road from me follow that strategy for years and they just continually spin their wheels in both football and basketball. Money helps but the only that works is continued and sustained success which requires patience. There is no substitute for it.

What will actually attract the top coaches is showing loyalty to your current coach, extend his contract when deserved, and increase his salary when deserved to the point where that coach becomes one of the highest paid coaches by a decent margin. You don't start there because then your stuck paying millions of dollars to a coach that may not pan out.

[muguru]

What happens when you do all that and the big name coach still doesn't come? Because we would probably get someone good but not the level you'd be hoping for.

What happens when you do hire someone good and then the results are still mediocre? Just because you hire someone who was good in the past doesn't mean that they will work at the next position.

You seem to believe that if you throw enough money at the program they will be successful. I've watched TU just down the road from me follow that strategy for years and they just continually spin their wheels in both football and basketball. Money helps but the only that works is continued and sustained success which requires patience. There is no substitute for it.

What will actually attract the top coaches is showing loyalty to your current coach, extend his contract when deserved, and increase his salary when deserved to the point where that coach becomes one of the highest paid coaches by a decent margin. You don't start there because then your stuck paying millions of dollars to a coach that may not pan out.

If you pay enough...I think a big name Coach will come. "xxx pays what, 9 Million per year?? Okay, we will pay 12 million a year". Money talks unfortunately...we see that all over the place. There is no such thing as loyalty(or very little of it) in sports at any level these days. And IF my way doesn't work immediately, I am still willing to bet it will..quicker than the "traditional" way would. It's just accelerating the timeline.

It's like an Iphone...every time a new one comes out, EVERYONE gets in line to get one. People want the "latest and greatest". In this scenario, MU would be the "latest and greatest". If said Coach can do it at a University that doesn't have everything that this MU would have, then they certainly should be able to do it at MU with EVERYTHING at their disposal.

Is it guaranteed?? Life isn't guaranteed. But I'm 99.9% sure MU would win multiple National titles quicker this way then the "typical" school would. And the thing is, IF you stay on top of things(always advancing etc), you COULD run into a situation where you win many consecutive National titles, to where it's unprecedented.

And your way(which is many others), what happens when that doesn't work out after you have tried and tried and tried every 6-7 years you're changing Coaches?? My way would be a MAJOR acceleration of that "time line". Let's put it this way, if the way I propose didn't work in say 3-4 years, you can change course MUCH quicker.

I'm not a patient person...with anything, not just MU basketball. The older I get, even less so. I don't have the time or inclination to wait another 20 years to see if MU can win multiple national titles.

[brewcity77]

Then I suggest cutting eight figure checks to Marquette. Because they aren't paying anyone $12 million off the street.

[tower912]

How much did Crean get to go to UGA? 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

If you pay enough...I think a big name Coach will come. "xxx pays what, 9 Million per year?? Okay, we will pay 12 million a year". Money talks unfortunately...we see that all over the place. There is no such thing as loyalty(or very little of it) in sports at any level these days. And IF my way doesn't work immediately, I am still willing to bet it will..quicker than the "traditional" way would. It's just accelerating the timeline.

It's like an Iphone...every time a new one comes out, EVERYONE gets in line to get one. People want the "latest and greatest". In this scenario, MU would be the "latest and greatest". If said Coach can do it at a University that doesn't have everything that this MU would have, then they certainly should be able to do it at MU with EVERYTHING at their disposal.

Is it guaranteed?? Life isn't guaranteed. But I'm 99.9% sure MU would win multiple National titles quicker this way then the "typical" school would. And the thing is, IF you stay on top of things(always advancing etc), you COULD run into a situation where you win many consecutive National titles, to where it's unprecedented.

And your way(which is many others), what happens when that doesn't work out after you have tried and tried and tried every 6-7 years you're changing Coaches?? My way would be a MAJOR acceleration of that "time line". Let's put it this way, if the way I propose didn't work in say 3-4 years, you can change course MUCH quicker.

I'm not a patient person...with anything, not just MU basketball. The older I get, even less so. I don't have the time or inclination to wait another 20 years to see if MU can win multiple national titles.

So you're suggestion is to pay a guy who may have done well at another school but has done bumpkus for your school, 3 million more a year than the best coach in college basketball. And if the new guy can't replicate his success at the past school, you're stuck paying him millions and you will expect us to pay the next guy the same 12 million a year....I know you're not an alum, but surely you must realize that's not a responsible use of funds. Coach K worked his way up to 9 million a year after over 35 years of winning at Duke. No school is going to or should pay that level of salary to a guy who has done nothing for their school.

[muguru]

So you're suggestion is to pay a guy who may have done well at another school but has done bumpkus for your school, 3 million more a year than the best coach in college basketball. And if the new guy can't replicate his success at the past school, you're stuck paying him millions and you will expect us to pay the next guy the same 12 million a year....I know you're not an alum, but surely you must realize that's not a responsible use of funds. Coach K worked his way up to 9 million a year after over 35 years of winning at Duke. No school is going to or should pay that level of salary to a guy who has done nothing for their school.

Schools pay more $$ than they have ever paid a Coach at their school before to get them to become their Coach..that's what lures them to that school. Also, don't you think the odds would be very good they would work out since they did at X school with a lot less resources than they would have at MU(under my vision), with 5 star recruits falling into your lap because of the top notch everything you have(best everything in college BB)?? I'd be willing to bet it would work...quickly.

[brewcity77]

Schools pay more $$ than they have ever paid a Coach at their school before to get them to become their Coach..that's what lures them to that school. Also, don't you think the odds would be very good they would work out since they did at X school with a lot less resources than they would have at MU(under my vision), with 5 star recruits falling into your lap because of the top notch everything you have(best everything in college BB)?? I'd be willing to bet it would work...quickly.

Then write a ten figure check and start throwing your weight around. Ten figures before the decimal and you can have a say in how things run. Maybe even get a Coal Lodge style building named after you. The Guru Grotto, or the Iceman Chalet.

[jesmu84]

If you pay enough...I think a big name Coach will come. "xxx pays what, 9 Million per year?? Okay, we will pay 12 million a year". Money talks unfortunately...we see that all over the place. There is no such thing as loyalty(or very little of it) in sports at any level these days. And IF my way doesn't work immediately, I am still willing to bet it will..quicker than the "traditional" way would. It's just accelerating the timeline.

It's like an Iphone...every time a new one comes out, EVERYONE gets in line to get one. People want the "latest and greatest". In this scenario, MU would be the "latest and greatest". If said Coach can do it at a University that doesn't have everything that this MU would have, then they certainly should be able to do it at MU with EVERYTHING at their disposal.

Is it guaranteed?? Life isn't guaranteed. But I'm 99.9% sure MU would win multiple National titles quicker this way then the "typical" school would. And the thing is, IF you stay on top of things(always advancing etc), you COULD run into a situation where you win many consecutive National titles, to where it's unprecedented.

And your way(which is many others), what happens when that doesn't work out after you have tried and tried and tried every 6-7 years you're changing Coaches?? My way would be a MAJOR acceleration of that "time line". Let's put it this way, if the way I propose didn't work in say 3-4 years, you can change course MUCH quicker.

I'm not a patient person...with anything, not just MU basketball. The older I get, even less so. I don't have the time or inclination to wait another 20 years to see if MU can win multiple national titles.

You need to become fan of another school, because that scenario is NEVER going to happen at MU.

[muguru]

Then write a ten figure check and start throwing your weight around. Ten figures before the decimal and you can have a say in how things run. Maybe even get a Coal Lodge style building named after you. The Guru Grotto, or the Iceman Chalet.

If MU shared my vision, and was willing to do it...I'd take care of them...but obviously they don't when they turned down a "free" Coal lodge. That literally could have/likely would have taken the program and recruiting to the next level...and you just "ignore it". Absolutely stupid decision.

[Cheeks]

If you pay enough...I think a big name Coach will come. "xxx pays what, 9 Million per year?? Okay, we will pay 12 million a year". Money talks unfortunately...we see that all over the place. There is no such thing as loyalty(or very little of it) in sports at any level these days. And IF my way doesn't work immediately, I am still willing to bet it will..quicker than the "traditional" way would. It's just accelerating the timeline.

It's like an Iphone...every time a new one comes out, EVERYONE gets in line to get one. People want the "latest and greatest". In this scenario, MU would be the "latest and greatest". If said Coach can do it at a University that doesn't have everything that this MU would have, then they certainly should be able to do it at MU with EVERYTHING at their disposal.

Is it guaranteed?? Life isn't guaranteed. But I'm 99.9% sure MU would win multiple National titles quicker this way then the "typical" school would. And the thing is, IF you stay on top of things(always advancing etc), you COULD run into a situation where you win many consecutive National titles, to where it's unprecedented.

And your way(which is many others), what happens when that doesn't work out after you have tried and tried and tried every 6-7 years you're changing Coaches?? My way would be a MAJOR acceleration of that "time line". Let's put it this way, if the way I propose didn't work in say 3-4 years, you can change course MUCH quicker.

I'm not a patient person...with anything, not just MU basketball. The older I get, even less so. I don't have the time or inclination to wait another 20 years to see if MU can win multiple national titles.

.

Bad example, people are no longer getting in line to get a new one because they last longer than ever.  Same for cars.

I also always love it when alums and non alums throw around “just open up the wallet” and pay them whatever.....real easy spending other people’s money, eh Guru?   This is a university, not a professional sports franchise.  There are many other things competing for capital, G&A, etc that don’t involve athletics and never will.

[Cheeks]

You need to become fan of another school, because that scenario is NEVER going to happen at MU.

Nailed it and been saying this for a long time.  There is a massive disconnect with some people here and terra firma, as in the reality gap is so large it is breathtaking.  I just laugh at the comedy some are throwing around....and it is comedy.  Not only is what Guru and others are hoping for not going to happen at MU ever, they aren’t happening at 99.99999% of any schools out there.

[muguru]

What happens when you do all that and the big name coach still doesn't come? Because we would probably get someone good but not the level you'd be hoping for.

What happens when you do hire someone good and then the results are still mediocre? Just because you hire someone who was good in the past doesn't mean that they will work at the next position.

You seem to believe that if you throw enough money at the program they will be successful. I've watched TU just down the road from me follow that strategy for years and they just continually spin their wheels in both football and basketball. Money helps but the only that works is continued and sustained success which requires patience. There is no substitute for it.

What will actually attract the top coaches is showing loyalty to your current coach, extend his contract when deserved, and increase his salary when deserved to the point where that coach becomes one of the highest paid coaches by a decent margin. You don't start there because then your stuck paying millions of dollars to a coach that may not pan out.

You accused me of not thinking big(which is the biggest fallacy there is, but whatever), now i come up with the biggest of big, and you pick that apart too. You can't possibly think bigger then the vision I have...so what exactly do you want??

[Galway Eagle]

If MU shared my vision, and was willing to do it...I'd take care of them...but obviously they don't when they turned down a "free" Coal lodge. That literally could have/likely would have taken the program and recruiting to the next level...and you just "ignore it". Absolutely stupid decision.

Wasn't this donation you're referring to contingent on something? I thought I recalled that some big name donor tried doing that.

[muguru]

You need to become fan of another school, because that scenario is NEVER going to happen at MU.

And here we are back to the "you need to be realistic" drum beating. Yet, OTHER people talk about MU winning Multiple National Championships at MU as being the goal(which it should be), but people don't pile on them for that. Talk about hypocritical.

You're the one that should become a fan of another school(DePaul is probably fitting), since you seem to have this "small time" mentality when it comes to MU.

[Cheeks]

I have this image of Guru as Dr. Evil demanding a billion billion dollars be spent on the program and coach....anything short of that means you aren’t a visionary, not a true fan, and just don’t get it.

[brewcity77]

If MU shared my vision, and was willing to do it...I'd take care of them...but obviously they don't when they turned down a "free" Coal lodge. That literally could have/likely would have taken the program and recruiting to the next level...and you just "ignore it". Absolutely stupid decision.

How do you know they don't? Have you called Dr Lovell or Bill Scholl and told them you would like to discuss a $10,000,000+ donation?

Lovell: (414) 288-7223
Scholl: (414) 288-6303

I'm sure if you are serious about the monetary figure, they will be willing to discuss it further.

[muguru]

Wasn't this donation you're referring to contingent on something? I thought I recalled that some big name donor tried doing that.

Nope...just accepting it..wasn't contingent on anything from what I understand. Lovell just kept putting him off, until he got tired of waiting, and pulled the offer. Can't blame the donor. But, I suppose some here would justify that as saying Lovell did the right thing.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

You accused me of not thinking big(which is the biggest fallacy there is, but whatever), now i come up with the biggest of big, and you pick that apart too. You can't possibly think bigger then the vision I have...so what exactly do you want??

Because throwing money at a problem is small time thinking. The smallest time thinking. Look at the most successful programs. They got there by consistent success built over time. Not by throwing an irresponsible amount of money at program with a potential to bankrupt the university.

[Cheeks]

Kentucky has their coal lodge....it works great for their one year on campus....the guys barely have time to unpack their boxes....

[Uncle Rico]

The last page in this thread have been coffee-spitting funny

[Cheeks]

Because throwing money at a problem is small time thinking. The smallest time thinking. Look at the most successful programs. They got there by consistent success built over time. Not by throwing an irresponsible amount of money at program with a potential to bankrupt the university.

Oh I could have fun with this one........throwing money at problems.....but I won’t

[muguru]

How do you know they don't? Have you called Dr Lovell or Bill Scholl and told them you would like to discuss a $10,000,000+ donation?

Lovell: (414) 288-7223
Scholl: (414) 288-6303

I'm sure if you are serious about the monetary figure, they will be willing to discuss it further.

There's proof they wouldn't...Lovell turned down a donor building a Coal lodge all on his dime..someone explain that logic??

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

And here we are back to the "you need to be realistic" drum beating. Yet, OTHER people talk about MU winning Multiple National Championships at MU as being the goal(which it should be), but people don't pile on them for that. Talk about hypocritical.

You're the one that should become a fan of another school(DePaul is probably fitting), since you seem to have this "small time" mentality when it comes to MU.

You're mixing things up again. No one is saying Marquette being elite isn't realistic. They're saying your plan of paying a coach 12 million a year and spending hundreds of millions on dollars (in addition to what we already spend) on the basketball program is not realistic.

[brewcity77]

There's proof they wouldn't...Lovell turned down a donor building a Coal lodge all on his dime..someone explain that logic??

I believe you are conflating two stories. I also believe this is information that came from a site that prefers stuff like this not broadcast elsewhere.

Regardless, make the calls. You don't know until you offer to write that $10,000,000+ check what vision they have and if they might share more of yours than you realize. After all, if you truly care that much about Marquette being elite, what better way could you show it?