Undergrad school does it matter?

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

The egalitarian part of me would like to believe all these sentiments, but there is a good reason Lori Laughlin is in hot water and there is a such thing as a gentleman’s C. 

[shoothoops]

The one thing I believe everyone can agree with, is one size does not fit all. The original poster isn't going to get the answer from here or someone else. Each individual kid has to make his or her own choice that best suits their interests, needs, experience and research.

One thing I do recommend generally, is for high school kids to visit as many colleges as they can of interest throughout their four years of high school. Not everyone can do this but this can be done inexpensively. I would also encourage anyone to take advantage of any programs that allow for travel to other geographies near and far while in high school. Don't wait for late in high school.

I disagree quite a bit with some of the major/course of study discussion. I am a big believer in taking courses of interest, in areas of study interest, to explore what one likes and doesn't if unsure. I also recommend to research those teaching the courses. Not enough is discussed about how much the individual professors matter in education. Course quality, professor quality, interest quality, are things to look for.

I would add that I have known well and worked with many high level executives that worked in fields they did not remotely study in college, not even close, self included. Some of these people were running multi billion dollar entities. Some of the best advice I ever received was study what you like and be well rounded. There will always be people who study something extremely specific and work in that field a long time. That works for them. There will be many others that are successful by doing it in a wide variety of ways. I would never tell someone not study liberal arts etc...which teaches reading, writing, critical thinking as opposed to something else that may appear more lucrarive on the surface. Much of what happens in a career happens after you get your foot into the door of an industry or specific place. Experience, relationships, being a good worker matter a lot.

What works for one person is not necessarily going to work for another.

When you do arrive at school, explore all interests early on to narrow down where you will be spending your time more specifically.

One kid might be working two jobs, taking care of family when going to college. Another may have spent a year abroad after high school. Another may be a student athlete, another may be this or that.

I do recommend if possible taking as many college level courses as one can in high school. I also recommend 
taking less desired required courses at a community college at times.

I definitely know now what I would have done the same and differently for myself and how I would approach things. But what works for me isn't going to be the same for others.

Let the kids be themselves and explore their own interests, make their own decisions. Acquire as much information and experiences as you can before and then narrow down and make a decision. Any decision can be changed or improved over time. Don't be afraid to make a mistake.

[MU82]

shoothoops:

I really like the tone and spirit of your comment and agree with most of it. The nits I might have are so insignificant that I won't even bother with them. Well done.

The egalitarian part of me would like to believe all these sentiments, but there is a good reason Lori Laughlin is in hot water and there is a such thing as a gentleman’s C. 

FLD, I think few would dispute that an Ivy or Stanford or other elite school could open avenues for many students. But the OP wasn't talking about the kinds of schools that those rich, cheating, enabling parents were paying to admit their spoiled, entitled kids.

He was asking if folks thought it was "worth" at least $14K per year extra for his son to go to "Marquette, DePaul, or Loyola versus a state school such as UW-Milwaukee or UW-whitewater."

As a few other posters said, "worth" is in the eye of the beholder. For example, is a Catholic education important? If so, one of those schools might be "worth" it. Is there a certain appealing area of study at one of those schools that isn't at the public schools? Is being in an urban environment like Chicago important? Etc, etc, etc.

But, in general, I personally don't think the Marquette/DePaul/Loyola experience and/or potential connections is "worth" at least $56k more over 4 years than the UWM or UWW experience and connections would be.

The OP was asking for opinions and reasons for our opinions, so there's mine. I'm not saying it's more "right" than anybody else's opinion.

[weir1]

Thank you to everyone for your input.  I am going to read these over with him and put it in the “blender” with other advise/thoughts/research he has received and help “guide” him on his decision.   I graduated Marquette in 87 and It is mind blowing how much the cost have gone up.  Thanks again to everyone for taking the time to comment.

[reinko]

Thank you to everyone for your input.  I am going to read these over with him and put it in the “blender” with other advise/thoughts/research he has received and help “guide” him on his decision.   I graduated Marquette in 87 and It is mind blowing how much the cost have gone up.  Thanks again to everyone for taking the time to comment.

I will also say, this year for incoming freshman will be no like any other with COVID.  Every residential campus is saying they will be opening, but so much is unknown at this time.  I was a college counselor for 10 years, and ethically I never recommended students double depositing, but the way higher education is just assuming things will be back to normal, I am of the opinion that families do what is there best interest.

[WarriorFan]

One more point on this:

If you want to know the true measure of a school, go to the career services department and look at the job postings.  Even though Marquette is a borderline regional/national school, it had (for engineering) national job postings from fortune 100 companies with real career paths.

I have seen the same at UWSP (paper science and chemical engineering) and UW Platteville (engineering) so clearly some of the UW system graduate candidates who are in demand at the national level.

Bottom line - if the career board has jobs that are interesting to your kid, then that's a good school for your kid. 

[Not A Serious Person]

This thread is forgetting the real reason for an undergraduate ... credentialing.

It is not about vocational training.

[vogue65]

For me it was about learning how the system works, how to develop character, and to learn values.  I learned how to learn over my lifetime.  I'm still learning.
"You get what you pay for, IF you're lucky".

[drewm88]

There is lots of legitimate advice above relative to education and career opportunities.  I'm going to answer this "Yes, it is worth it" but from a wholly different angle... admittedly one heavily influenced from personal experience.  I don't doubt that I would have done similar career-wise had I gone to UW (which I had a housing deposit into) or a UW-Hyphen, but I don't believe I'd have grown in other ways the same.  I came to Marquette from a small town in WI which lacked diversity (in color, thought, religion, sexual-orientation, etc.).  Marquette exposed me to an urban and diverse environment and course/service-work which made me think critically about things I'd never witnessed or thought critically about before.  "I get it now" was a mental refrain I had often

I'd encourage you and your son to consider the environment(s) and missions of the institutions being considered.

This is pretty close to how I'd answer the question. My time at Marquette helped me figure out who I am and what I value in a different way than if I had gone to a UW extension school, and that's driven my career more than anything on my resume.

Also keep in mind that 2 years at CC followed by MU isn't just a matter of transcripts. It's relationships and experiences that get cut off or missed entirely. But $$$ is obviously a huge factor, and it's a massive privilege to look beyond that. I don't know that a Marquette education will pay for itself over a UW school in the long run in strict dollar terms, but for me it has in the big picture.

[muwarrior69]

This is pretty close to how I'd answer the question. My time at Marquette helped me figure out who I am and what I value in a different way than if I had gone to a UW extension school, and that's driven my career more than anything on my resume.

Also keep in mind that 2 years at CC followed by MU isn't just a matter of transcripts. It's relationships and experiences that get cut off or missed entirely. But $$$ is obviously a huge factor, and it's a massive privilege to look beyond that. I don't know that a Marquette education will pay for itself over a UW school in the long run in strict dollar terms, but for me it has in the big picture.

Marquette was affordable in my day. Tuition, room and board, and books cost my parents just over 12,000 for my 9 semesters at MU.

[Disco Hippie]

But more competitive fields, even as a good/normal bright student, you’re gonna have trouble even getting an interview if they don’t like the undergrad school.  I had a great story about why I chose my major/minor combo and one of my college clubs, and the only time I got to tell it in an interview after graduation was cause I met someone at a Cubs game who got my resume out of the garbage at his firm after the fact. And I went to a really good undergrad school, but it wasn’t a target school for Chicago finance firms and I didn’t have a highlighted major.

This was certainly the case 10 years ago and before but even in elite professions such as I-Banking and finance the process has been democratized considerably in recent years.  Firms have responded to pressure that they don't cast a wide enough net and have expanded the schools from which they recruit considerably.  More MU grads than ever before are landing plum entry level positions on Wall St.   It's still a very small number overall but when I graduated in the early early 90s it would have been unheard of for someone from MU to even get an interview at an elite firm because they only recruited from the Top 20.  Even if one went to one of those schools it was pretty hard to land one of those jobs back in the day.  Still not easy today but if you have the smarts, they don't put quite as much emphasis on the prestige of the undergrad institution.  My sense is it still matters more than it should at many of these places, just not as much as it used to where it really was the be all and the end all. 

Overall I agree with most of the sentiment expressed here that it doesn't matter that much in terms of employment prospects, especially after one's first entry level job, with the exception of highly competitive industries such as finance and a few others.  Geography plays a role, and it probably matters more on the coasts, particularly the east coast but even there, I think the biggest factor is the individual hiring manager and their personal biases.  If it matters to them it's important.  If it doesn't it isn't.  In my industry, probably 1/3 to maybe 40% do and to them, it's a very big deal.  Thankfully these folks are still the minority.

[Jables1604]

I married a Marquette girl too. We have an extraordinary, uh, cat.

My wife’s sister likes to throw her Harvard degree in our faces every 30 seconds or so. My response has been “ well, you’ll never attend a Final Four to see your alma mater play, I’ll take that.”

Sorry if someone already suggested this...Next time your sister in law throws that Harvard degree in your face remind her that you went to the Harvard of Milwaukee.

[Marquette Gyros]

Echoing (some) others - depending on career choice undergrad makes a difference. If interested in the corporate/professional track I’d probably advise MU, DePaul, Loyola and maybe in that order (you could flip flop the first two but I think our brand is better). If not, or if grad school is planned right after, it’s less important.

Sure this will be controversial - but IMO, more important for personal growth would be to get out of the high school routine and use the collegiate experience to broaden the students understanding of “who they are” and who they can be. For me it was important to get on a plane and go to MU to grow, build new relationships, do chit for myself etc.  Probably a different outcome if I kept living at home and went to State U or State U-Exurb, in the same bubble, with the same people. YMMV.

Covid throws a wrench in this last part. Tough time to make a decision.

[Billy Hoyle]

Sorry if someone already suggested this...Next time your sister in law throws that Harvard degree in your face remind her that you went to the Harvard of Milwaukee.

Nah, not our style. Let her play academic elitist. Besides, I’ve successfully avoided seeing her for nearly 12 years now.

Echoing (some) others - depending on career choice undergrad makes a difference. If interested in the corporate/professional track I’d probably advise MU, DePaul, Loyola and maybe in that order (you could flip flop the first two but I think our brand is better). If not, or if grad school is planned right after, it’s less important.

Sure this will be controversial - but IMO, more important for personal growth would be to get out of the high school routine and use the collegiate experience to broaden the students understanding of “who they are” and who they can be. For me it was important to get on a plane and go to MU to grow, build new relationships, do chit for myself etc.  Probably a different outcome if I kept living at home and went to State U or State U-Exurb, in the same bubble, with the same people. YMMV.

Covid throws a wrench in this last part. Tough time to make a decision.

I don’t think it’s controversial at all. I experienced more diversity of opinions, culture, ethicists, etc as a freshman than the first 18 years of my life. That’s the most important part of the collegiate experience.

[keefe]

I married a Marquette girl too. We have an extraordinary, uh, cat.

My wife’s sister likes to throw her Harvard degree in our faces every 30 seconds or so. My response has been “ well, you’ll never attend a Final Four to see your alma mater play, I’ll take that.”

Hoyle: "Well, you'll never attend a Finar Four to see your alma mater play"

Harvard: "Neither will you with that floor slappin' sonuvabitch as the coach!"

[keefe]

Go to the best school you can get into beginning with high school. It improves both the quantity and quality of subsequent options. It's a fact.

[rocky_warrior]

Go to the best school you can get into beginning with high school. It improves both the quantity and quality of subsequent options. It's a fact.

Work harder than those in your school and subsequent schools / jobs.  It improves your income.  It's a fact.

[keefe]

Work harder than those in your school and subsequent schools / jobs.  It improves your income.  It's a fact.

Some jobs have a couple more zeros on the paycheck. It's a fact.

[rocky_warrior]

Some jobs have a couple more zeros on the paycheck. It's a fact.

I don't think we're disagreeing.  Those jobs aren't usually born from just an education.  It's a fact.

[keefe]

I don't think we're disagreeing.  Those jobs aren't usually born from just an education.  It's a fact.

We are in complete agreement: nothing replaces hard work. But the right academic credentials never hurts one's professional, social, or political prospects.

There is a reason why parents fight ferociously to get their newborn lined up with the right pre-school.

[rocky_warrior]

There is a reason why parents fight ferociously to get their newborn lined up with the right pre-school.

Oh god, that's a good one.  "Could you tell me a little about the preschool you attended and what it meant to your 5 year goal at that time".  lol.  Where's the reset button.

[Billy Hoyle]

Oh god, that's a good one.  "Could you tell me a little about the preschool you attended and what it meant to your 5 year goal at that time".  lol.  Where's the reset button.

You’ve never lived in NYC. It’s a real thing. I saw coworkers jump through ridiculous hoops just to get their kids into “elite” preschools.

https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/manhattan-mom-sues-19k-yr-preschool-damaging-4-year-old-daughter-ivy-league-chances-article-1.117712

[Its DJOver]

I don't think one Karen pulling her kid out of preschool after three weeks, getting her lawsuit thrown out, all of which happening almost a decade ago, is enough evidence to properly use the phrase "it's a real thing".  Just seems like an extreme example of a snowplow parent.

[Billy Hoyle]

I don't think one Karen pulling her kid out of preschool after three weeks, getting her lawsuit thrown out, all of which happening almost a decade ago, is enough evidence to properly use the phrase "it's a real thing".  Just seems like an extreme example of a snowplow parent.

no, what this shows is how important preschools are in NYC and the East Coast because of the path it sets kids on from the time they're two years old. Get shut out of an "elite" preschool then you get shutout of elite elementary schools. Then, you get shutout of elite high schools and so on. My buddy paid $40K a year to send his daughter to an "elite" kindergarten but that way, when it was time, she could go to one of the top private high schools like Dalton. Marymount, Trinity, etc., or one of the elite NE boarding schools instead of hoping to get into one of the top eight public schools via the SHSAT (my old neighbor has been prepping her daughter for the SHSAT since she was in sixth grade since she doesn't go to one of the elite Manhattan schools).

Karen here was made that her daughter didn't get into the #1 ranked Kindergarten.

[Its DJOver]

Or it shows that people way overpay for luxury goods in certain parts of the country as a status symbol.  From your article. 

At the York Ave. campus, where many kids were being picked up by nannies pushing luxury strollers,

Far too many stories of people having extreme levels of success and obtaining access to Ivy or other prestigious Universities without access to these "elite" preschools.  No one in their right mind would think that they're child's chances of success are locked in or squashed that early in their life.