Ill. School district could lose $6M due to transgender locker room access

[naginiF]

Precisely.

Why not have open changing rooms at Nordstroms?

This madness forgets about the actual women whose expectation of privacy is being disregarded.

As a father I would not be pleased with males sharing a locker room with my then teen aged daughter. My daughter is an intelligent, sophisticated, open, liberal minded young women but I rather doubt she would care to share a locker room with men at the university gym. One may argue, 'but they think they are women' but the fact is that they are not.

And that is where the whole argument lies, is it biological > identification or identification > biological.  Younger generations are living in a world where it's the latter.

My 1st grader has a transgender girl (biological male) in his class and he would be appalled if she used the boys bathroom, so would I and the majority of parents.  He's being brought up in a much different world than we were and doesn't view gender from a biological perspective.  I may not have had this point of view 5 years ago but watching his classmate for the past 4 years has shown me that if someone truly identifies as a specific gender it doesn't matter what biological parts they have. 

I also have to give the school and fellow parents credit on how they are handling this, it's a new situation for everyone and everyone is taking the approach that we're all learning so ask questions and let's make this as caring an environment - for all the kids - as we can.

The world is changing to be more accepting - always has, always will.

[Pakuni]

According to the WLS story, she was using a separate room to change but was unhappy about it and the school's solution was a privacy curtain.

Cates said the district drew the line when it came to the student's request for full access to the female locker room.

"She had to go down long hallway to the other bathroom, she noticed she was singled out, it didn't make her feel part of the team," Cates said.

The student, whose identity has not been made public, turned to the American Civil Liberties Union for help and filed a complaint with the Office of Civil Rights.

The district came up with a solution that it strongly believes is not discrimination -- asking the transgender student to use privacy curtains. Department of Education officials said without full access, the district has violated the student's civil rights.

Here's the Department of Education's report. Read pages 2-3, under "Locker Room Access." As you'll see, the student repeatedly said she would change in a stall or behind a privacy curtain, and was refused by the district. I can't cut/paste it, so you'll have to read for yourself.

http://www.dailyherald.com/assets/pdf/DA140167112.pdf

Either way, do you think a "privacy curtains for all!" solution would have satisfied?

Well, it appears just one privacy curtain would have satisfied the student in question.

[MerrittsMustache]

Here's the Department of Education's report. Read pages 2-3, under "Locker Room Access." As you'll see, the student repeatedly said she would change in a stall or behind a privacy curtain, and was refused by the district. I can't cut/paste it, so you'll have to read for yourself.

http://www.dailyherald.com/assets/pdf/DA140167112.pdf

Well, it appears just one privacy curtain would have satisfied the student in question.

Thanks for the clarification.

The disconnect is that the student supposedly would have been fine with a privacy curtain yet that solution still constitutes a civil rights violation.

The other note I found interesting was that her entering the locker room a handful of times led to complaints from 4 girls and 1 parent.

[mu03eng]

The problem inherently is any solution requires that identity, gender, and sexuality all be compartmentalized things but they really aren't.

Person 1: biological male, identifies as female, sexually attracted to females
Person 2: biological female, identifies as female, sexually attracted to females
Person 3: surgically female, identifies as female, sexually attracted to females
Person 4: biological female, identifies as female, sexually attracted to males
Person 5: biological female, identifies as male, sexually attracted to females
Person 6: biological female, identifies as male, sexually attracted to males

So which of these persons go to the female locker room and which go to the male locker room.  What is the purpose of separate locker rooms....to avoid sexual or biological issues or some other reason?

It may seem weird but we are at the point as a society we need to examine and understand why we have male and female restrooms/locker rooms.  That should then inform who goes where.

[PBRme]

So in other words, no one can really come up with any harm that any of the 12,000 students would face if a transgender student changed in front of them.

I think this was the same argument as Separate but equal.  If no harm is proven it must be OK.

Maybe we are discussing young people who have lots of pressures and hang ups, body, self esteem, who knows.  Why do the youngest have to endure the social engineering/experimentation.   

[jesmu84]

[buckchuckler]

nm

[buckchuckler]

nm

[MerrittsMustache]

And that is where the whole argument lies, is it biological > identification or identification > biological.  Younger generations are living in a world where it's the latter.

My 1st grader has a transgender girl (biological male) in his class and he would be appalled if she used the boys bathroom, so would I and the majority of parents.  He's being brought up in a much different world than we were and doesn't view gender from a biological perspective.  I may not have had this point of view 5 years ago but watching his classmate for the past 4 years has shown me that if someone truly identifies as a specific gender it doesn't matter what biological parts they have. 

I also have to give the school and fellow parents credit on how they are handling this, it's a new situation for everyone and everyone is taking the approach that we're all learning so ask questions and let's make this as caring an environment - for all the kids - as we can.

The world is changing to be more accepting - always has, always will.

Question: What's the birth order for the transgender student?

I ask because my wife and I watched a documentary about 4 transgender kids and in each case, the transgender was the middle child of 3 same-sex siblings. They didn't mention that in the doc, but we both noticed it and found that interesting.

[naginiF]

Question: What's the birth order for the transgender student?

I ask because my wife and I watched a documentary about 4 transgender kids and in each case, the transgender was the middle child of 3 same-sex siblings. They didn't mention that in the doc, but we both noticed it and found that interesting.

3rd of 4 - Brother, Sister, younger Brother.

Not the exact same as the doc but kinda close....

[MerrittsMustache]

3rd of 4 - Brother, Sister, younger Brother.

Not the exact same as the doc but kinda close....

Thanks. The kid is "the middle brother" so like you said, it's pretty similar. I'm not going to overanalyze but that aspect of things does stand out.

[Sylvester78]

I think the way society is going we are about 20 years away from polygamy and and 50 years from bestiality being legal.   The left is literally becoming more "anything goes" everyday. The screeching always seems to work too.

[Lighthouse 84]

I think the way society is going we are about 20 years away from polygamy and and 50 years from bestiality being legal.   The left is literally becoming more "anything goes" everyday. The screeching always seems to work too.

Not sure why we will be waiting that long.  Aren't we supposed to be inclusive to allow anyone to marry their brother, sister, mom, dad, cousin, dog, etc., or all at the same time, now?

[ChicosBailBonds]

What about male sportwriters in female locker rooms while they are showering, ainna? 

[muwarrior69]

And that is where the whole argument lies, is it biological > identification or identification > biological.  Younger generations are living in a world where it's the latter.

My 1st grader has a transgender girl (biological male) in his class and he would be appalled if she used the boys bathroom, so would I and the majority of parents.  He's being brought up in a much different world than we were and doesn't view gender from a biological perspective.  I may not have had this point of view 5 years ago but watching his classmate for the past 4 years has shown me that if someone truly identifies as a specific gender it doesn't matter what biological parts they have. 

I also have to give the school and fellow parents credit on how they are handling this, it's a new situation for everyone and everyone is taking the approach that we're all learning so ask questions and let's make this as caring an environment - for all the kids - as we can.

The world is changing to be more accepting - always has, always will.

So a 6 year old says I'm a girl and not a boy.... and everyone says it must be so! Go figure. I guess the parents of this child are "consenting" to the choice, but it if a parent of a another child "dissents" and does not want their child sharing the same facilities where do they go?

[naginiF]

So a 6 year old says I'm a girl and not a boy.... and everyone says it must be so! Go figure. I guess the parents of this child are "consenting" to the choice, but it if a parent of a another child "dissents" and does not want their child sharing the same facilities where do they go?

To answer the underlined part......Yep!  A couple points on this.  First, if you spent a full day in their class I'd bet a hefty dinner tab you wouldn't be able to pick her out.  She's a girl, she's not making a choice.  I've known her since they were in Toddler class together and by Pre-K it was obvious that she was struggling with her gender identity.  In retrospect, it's obvious.  Second, her parents have shown more resolve and love than I think 99% of us, including me, are capable of. 

To answer your question about "dissents".  Our kids go to a private, high demand (therefore expensive), Christian (though not Catholic) day school and when you live on the Missouri side of Kansas City you have no choice but to send your kids to private school (but 65% of the kids live in Kansas).  With the administrations actions so far i'd be shocked if they didn't just take the next person on the waiting list and the 'dissents' would find another school. 

There are a million reasons why Kansas City has surprised me since moving here, this is #1. 

[Pakuni]

What about male sportwriters in female locker rooms while they are showering, ainna?

What about it?

    Men are, indeed, allowed in women's locker rooms. Driving into work on Monday I heard a nationally syndicated radio commentator lamenting the fact that he couldn't go in women's locker rooms. Apparently he's never attempted to cover women's sports -- sadly, not too surprising. But as this particular radio talker works for a network that covers both the WNBA and the women's NCAA basketball tournament -- and also employs several high profile women sports reporters -- you'd think he might have checked his facts.
    The WNBA -- the playoffs are going on right now -- has the same rules as the NBA. Open locker rooms at designated times. In the NCAA tournament, the same rules govern both men and women's locker rooms -- they're both open at specific times. During the regular season, NCAA institutions can make their own rules about locker room availability, but during the tournament the NCAA has a uniform policy. When Stanford played UConn in last April's championship, if you wanted to see how devastated Jayne Appel was after her terrible shooting night, you needed to be in the locker room. I was there. So were my male colleagues.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gameon/post/2010/09/nude-naked-locker-room-nfl-nba-wnba/1#.VkFSG7-LIqI

There is not a single women's sports league that bars male reporters from the locker room unless access is denied to everyone. Not one. Nada. Zero. Several admit all reporters. Both the WNBA and the NCAA women's basketball tournament have open locker rooms.

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/46109716/

[StillAWarrior]

What about it?

    Men are, indeed, allowed in women's locker rooms. Driving into work on Monday I heard a nationally syndicated radio commentator lamenting the fact that he couldn't go in women's locker rooms. Apparently he's never attempted to cover women's sports -- sadly, not too surprising. But as this particular radio talker works for a network that covers both the WNBA and the women's NCAA basketball tournament -- and also employs several high profile women sports reporters -- you'd think he might have checked his facts.
    The WNBA -- the playoffs are going on right now -- has the same rules as the NBA. Open locker rooms at designated times. In the NCAA tournament, the same rules govern both men and women's locker rooms -- they're both open at specific times. During the regular season, NCAA institutions can make their own rules about locker room availability, but during the tournament the NCAA has a uniform policy. When Stanford played UConn in last April's championship, if you wanted to see how devastated Jayne Appel was after her terrible shooting night, you needed to be in the locker room. I was there. So were my male colleagues.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gameon/post/2010/09/nude-naked-locker-room-nfl-nba-wnba/1#.VkFSG7-LIqI

There is not a single women's sports league that bars male reporters from the locker room unless access is denied to everyone. Not one. Nada. Zero. Several admit all reporters. Both the WNBA and the NCAA women's basketball tournament have open locker rooms.

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/46109716/

Reminds me of an amusing (YMMV) thing that happened to my wife and daughter this weekend.  My daughter was on a visit to unnamed Big East volleyball program.  She got invited into the locker room after the match and a player was topless.  My wife said, "we can wait for you to get dressed."  Player, "No, come on in" and proceeded to stand there topless and talk with my wife and daughter.  Even though everyone was the same sex...awkward.  My daughter realizes college ball will be a little different than HS in a lot of ways.

[Stronghold]

I knew Juwanna Mann should have been able to play in the WUBA all along.