Private High Schools Take 3 of the 7 Divisions in Football

[Mayor McCheese]

Good to see, congrats to the three schools: Burlington Catholic Central, Marquette and St. Mary's Springs.

Let the public schools complain, these schools will just continue to collect the hardware

[GGGG]

Good to see, congrats to the three schools: Burlington Catholic Central, Marquette and St. Mary's Springs.

Let the public schools complain, these schools will just continue to collect the hardware

I don't think the public schools have much to complain about at the larger school level, but I do think that they have legit concerns at the smaller schools.  Apples and oranges.  But I do think the WIAA's steps to try to correct this issue is silly.

On another note, it used to be that the schools from the central part of the state were dominant in Wisconsin HS football.  Outside of Edgar and St. Mary's Springs, all of the winners come from the southern part of the state.

[ChuckyChip]

Good to see

Why?

[Hards Alumni]

In other news, Public Schools still take the majority of the football trophies home this year.

[Mayor McCheese]

Why?

As a private institution, it is good to see other private institutions in our state have success.

I teach at one of these institutions.

And it drives High School sports supporters (Public Schools) wild when there are multiple private schools winning the gold ball.


Yes, Public Schools won the majority, but 5 of the 14 teams in state this year were private schools, and that compared to how many actual Private schools are in the state, it is a staggering number.


And to those who think that smaller Private schools recruit, its a joke, its no more than Public Schools recruiting.  Going to a Public School for high school, my alma mater recruited more than the private school I work for today, recruit kids from a farther distance than the Private schools.



The thing that bothers me, is when Private Schools win, the majority high school sports followers contribute it to recruiting.

When Public Schools win, or have a good program, it's the coach, work ethic, heart and determination of the kids.  Ive never seen a bigger group of determined students AND athletes than those a private school.

Just an observation.


Hey, at least it wasn't a thread in the Superbar about our former Head Coach and the struggles of Indiana

[foreverwarriors]

Yes, Public Schools won the majority, but 5 of the 14 teams in state this year were private schools, and that compared to how many actual Private schools are in the state, it is a staggering number.

and Catholic Memorial was kept out of the D3 championship game by a last minute TD by Reedsburg after dominating the entire game.

[Ari Gold]

Falls vs. MUHS was a good football game for HS. MUHS only scored one touchdown on their first possession the rest of the game was a defensive standstill. Quality football, too bad one of those teams had to lose

[ChuckyChip]

As a private institution, it is good to see other private institutions in our state have success.

I teach at one of these institutions.

And it drives High School sports supporters (Public Schools) wild when there are multiple private schools winning the gold ball.


Yes, Public Schools won the majority, but 5 of the 14 teams in state this year were private schools, and that compared to how many actual Private schools are in the state, it is a staggering number.


And to those who think that smaller Private schools recruit, its a joke, its no more than Public Schools recruiting.  Going to a Public School for high school, my alma mater recruited more than the private school I work for today, recruit kids from a farther distance than the Private schools.



The thing that bothers me, is when Private Schools win, the majority high school sports followers contribute it to recruiting.

When Public Schools win, or have a good program, it's the coach, work ethic, heart and determination of the kids.  Ive never seen a bigger group of determined students AND athletes than those a private school.

Just an observation.


Hey, at least it wasn't a thread in the Superbar about our former Head Coach and the struggles of Indiana

That's what I figured, one of those "private schools are better" kind of posts.  I imagine that kids at every school work hard and whomever wins the championship is deserving.  Obviously you have insecurity issues and take some kind of odd pleasure in seeing public school teams lose.  No wonder there is a perception that people associated with private schools are elitist jerks.

[Mayor McCheese]

That's what I figured, one of those "private schools are better" kind of posts.  I imagine that kids at every school work hard and whomever wins the championship is deserving.  Obviously you have insecurity issues and take some kind of odd pleasure in seeing public school teams lose.  No wonder there is a perception that people associated with private schools are elitist jerks.

Not at all.. if you read into it, all I am stating is that these teams all play on a level playing field when they base it off of size of school, and that I like to see some people who see it another way squirm when this happens.


I am in an odd situation, graduated from a Public School (and a I love my alma mater), graduated from a Public Institution (and a very proud Pioneer), however I teach at a Private High School, and love my situation.

I was just putting in what bothers me, if you think that is insecurity on my part... believe me its not.  I don't root for Public Schools to lose, there are many public high schools in the state that I root for, and there are many private schools I root against.  Just sparking conversation on this thread that isn't related to the Brewers/Packers/Cubs/Bears/TC/Brett Favre... etc.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

That's what I figured, one of those "private schools are better" kind of posts.  I imagine that kids at every school work hard and whomever wins the championship is deserving.  Obviously you have insecurity issues and take some kind of odd pleasure in seeing public school teams lose.  No wonder there is a perception that people associated with private schools are elitist jerks.

That's not what I got from his post.

He teaches at a private school, and knows the perception that "they recruit" and somehow "buy" championships, when in reality the private school kids work just as hard.

I think you're reading a little too much into this.

[GGGG]

Not at all.. if you read into it, all I am stating is that these teams all play on a level playing field when they base it off of size of school, and that I like to see some people who see it another way squirm when this happens.

I am in an odd situation, graduated from a Public School (and a I love my alma mater), graduated from a Public Institution (and a very proud Pioneer), however I teach at a Private High School, and love my situation.

I was just putting in what bothers me, if you think that is insecurity on my part... believe me its not.  I don't root for Public Schools to lose, there are many public high schools in the state that I root for, and there are many private schools I root against.  Just sparking conversation on this thread that isn't related to the Brewers/Packers/Cubs/Bears/TC/Brett Favre... etc.

First of all, to say that you don't root for public schools to lose is simply false when you read your first post.

That being said, I do agree with you that private schools don't go out and overtly recruit players.  However at the lower levels they do have the advantage of having a larger pool to draw from - and not just players, but coaches, tougher competition, etc.  Look at St. Mary's Springs for example.  They are located in a pretty decent size city in Fond du Lac and draw their student population from an even larger area.  In the finals, they played Arcadia...a city of 2,300 people located somewhere between Eau Claire and La Crosse. 

In Division 7, 3 of the 32 teams were private schools, and two of them met in the finals.

At the larger levels, that advantage goes away.  There is really no difference between MUHS and the Falls for instance.  However, the much larger proportion of state championships won in all sports at the lower levels pretty much show that it isn't just hard work that gets them there.  There are advantages at those levels that the smaller public schools don't have.

[MU1984]

There is really no difference between MUHS and the Falls for instance. 

Except MUHS has 1055 guys while MFalls has a total enrollment of 1159 (assuming 50% are guys = 580).  Other than that though, there is very little difference.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Except MUHS has 1055 guys while MFalls has a total enrollment of 1159 (assuming 50% are guys = 580).  Other than that though, there is very little difference.

I'm no MUHS apologist, but what do you want them to do?

They are already playing in the toughest division. Should WIAA just ban them from tournament play?

Arrowhead has 2300 students, which means they probably have the same amount of male students that MUHS has. Would you be mad if Arrowhead won?

[GGGG]

Except MUHS has 1055 guys while MFalls has a total enrollment of 1159 (assuming 50% are guys = 580).  Other than that though, there is very little difference.

MUHS hasn't received much benefit over similar schools its size in athletics.  If there is an advantage, it is no where near as pronounced as the smaller privates have.

[MU1984]

Just simply refuting the "no" difference between MUHS and the Falls.  That's all.  Don't get all worked up over it.  I would never go so far as to rip on the high and mighty institution that is MUHS.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Just simply refuting the "no" difference between MUHS and the Falls.  That's all.  Don't get all worked up over it.  I would never go so far as to rip on the high and mighty institution that is MUHS.

Dude, you can rip MUHS all you want. I'm sure there is a laundry list of things you could come up with that would be legitimate issues.

Have at it. I won't refute it. The school has plenty of problems.

But, they can't do anything about having more male students than Menominee Falls. That was a needless dig at the school, just like your "high and mighty" comment.

If you want to rip 'em, let 'er fly. But, at least make it legit.

[MU1984]

Dude, you can rip MUHS all you want. I'm sure there is a laundry list of things you could come up with that would be legitimate issues.

Have at it. I won't refute it. The school has plenty of problems.

But, they can't do anything about having more male students than Menominee Falls. That was a needless dig at the school, just like your "high and mighty" comment.

If you want to rip 'em, let 'er fly. But, at least make it legit.

The last comment I had was weak and should be teal.  I know a lot of people from MUHS and give them digs all the time and the return the volley.  I'll end my discussion there and apologize.

Now, I know they cant do anything about more students.  That wasnt my point.  Sultans said there is basically no difference between the two.  My point is that there is a big difference with them having twice as many guys.  Thats it.  Yes, they cant do anything about it, but it is a material difference between the two schools.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

The last comment I had was weak and should be teal.  I know a lot of people from MUHS and give them digs all the time and the return the volley.  I'll end my discussion there and apologize.

Now, I know they cant do anything about more students.  That wasnt my point.  Sultans said there is basically no difference between the two.  My point is that there is a big difference with them having twice as many guys.  Thats it.  Yes, they cant do anything about it, but it is a material difference between the two schools.

Agreed, MUHS does have a larger male population, and that certainly does make the schools different.

WIAA could make another division of football and put uber-large schools in it (homestead, Arrowhead, MUHS), but I'm not really sure what that accomplishes or where you draw that line.

The Falls had a great season and I'm sure that community is disappointed, but proud of what their team accomplished.

[GGGG]

In football, the WIAA simply figures out the 224 qualifying schools and divides them into seven divisions...largest to smallest.  Your division isn't pre-determined like it is in every other sport.  The Falls was in division one because they were one of the 32 largest qualifying schools.

Here's the list:

http://www.wiaawi.org/football/qualifyingfield.html

[MU1984]

Yeah, I mean you cant have a four school division because the guys enrollment is over 1k.  Its fair the way it is, but that doesnt mean there aren't large differences between schools within the same divisions.

[DJO's Pump Fake]

Speaking solely on the enrollment issue:

MUHS beat Racine Park, Oak Creek, Kenosha Bradford and Arrowhead this year in the playoffs....Only Oak Creek has a smaller enrollment and it is only by 88 students (44 Male) the other schools have more male students than MUHS. 

So I disagree that enrollment, especially in Division 1, has anything to do with how well the team performs.  It takes character, determination and outstanding coaching to beat the teams MUHS did this year and that's not to say any of the other schools couldn't have won it all.  I do not know anything about the smaller divisions but in Division 1 there is little differences between playoff teams.  The differences come in the intangibles such as coaching and player attitude. 

Despite all of the equals, the public perception is that MUHS and other private schools recruit or pay their players.  So to win a State Title the RIGHT WAY is very gratifying for the private school community.  Hopefully these notions are put to rest.

[Ari Gold]

Wait... so have we moved beyond saying MUHS is better in athletics because they promote more man on man touching that works on two levels

Except MUHS has 1055 guys while MFalls has a total enrollment of 1159 (assuming 50% are guys = 580).  Other than that though, there is very little difference.

My grad class at MFHS was over 350... I think 400 and change. Few more girls that guys too.

[DJO's Pump Fake]

Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on November 24, 2009, 08:29:54 AM

There is really no difference between MUHS and the Falls for instance. 

Except MUHS has 1055 guys while MFalls has a total enrollment of 1159 (assuming 50% are guys = 580).  Other than that though, there is very little difference.

MFalls has an enrollment of 1547 according to WIAA.  So more like 773 boys.

[mu-rara]

Anyone who thinks that    THE Arrowhead University    doesn't recruit is crazy

[GGGG]

Anyone who thinks that    THE Arrowhead University    doesn't recruit is crazy

They don't.  I know a number of people in their AD personally.  They have absolutely fantastic youth programs and a ton of $$$.

[Brewtown Andy]

Good to see, congrats to the three schools: Burlington Catholic Central, Marquette and St. Mary's Springs.

WOOOOOO!

Go Hilltoppers!

The removal of WISAA has really paid off for CCHS, as far as title game appearances in sports.

[mu-rara]

They don't.  I know a number of people in their AD personally.  They have absolutely fantastic youth programs and a ton of $$$.

Yeah, the Arrowhead Athletic Department would admit that they recruit.....There are any number of kids from surrounding districts that go to Arrowhead.  I know some of them personally.

Tom Parrish does not live in the Arrowhead district.
I don't think that Tyler Donovan was from the district.
 

The recruiting may be passive, but the $$$ buys facilities, and the facilities attract the kids and their parents.  Again,  THE Arrowhead University.

[GGGG]

Yeah, the Arrowhead Athletic Department would admit that they recruit.....There are any number of kids from surrounding districts that go to Arrowhead.  I know some of them personally.

Tom Parrish does not live in the Arrowhead district.
I don't think that Tyler Donovan was from the district.
 

The recruiting may be passive, but the $$$ buys facilities, and the facilities attract the kids and their parents.  Again,  THE Arrowhead University.

Are kids drawn to the district for athletic and academic reasons?  Sure.  That happens throughout Wisconsin now that it has become easier to switch districts.  And how do you passively recruit?

[MU1984]

Yeah, the Arrowhead Athletic Department would admit that they recruit.....There are any number of kids from surrounding districts that go to Arrowhead.  I know some of them personally.

Tom Parrish does not live in the Arrowhead district.
I don't think that Tyler Donovan was from the district.
 

The recruiting may be passive, but the $$$ buys facilities, and the facilities attract the kids and their parents.  Again,  THE Arrowhead University.

Donovan lived in Brookfield thru 7th grade and then his family moved to the Arrowhead district for him to play 8th grade youth football for them.  Turned out to be a good move.

[mu-rara]

Are kids drawn to the district for athletic and academic reasons?  Sure.  That happens throughout Wisconsin now that it has become easier to switch districts.  And how do you passively recruit?

How do you passively recruit?  Build facilities that only a University (of Arrowhead) can afford.

My original point was:  Private schools are accused of recruiting and this is, of course, the reason for their prominence in football championships.  The fact is that schools like Arrowhead and Homestead recruit, too.

[GGGG]

How do you passively recruit?  Build facilities that only a University (of Arrowhead) can afford.

My original point was:  Private schools are accused of recruiting and this is, of course, the reason for their prominence in football championships.  The fact is that schools like Arrowhead and Homestead recruit, too.

I guess if you want to change the definition of the word "recruit" they do.