Recruiting avenues

[NCMUFan]

I know I am opening up myself for criticism, but it seems that there are recruiting routes that Wojo and staff are not exploiting to get the best players on the court (given they academically qualify and don't have serious issues).  There are good players abroad and in Junior College that would represent Marquette well.  Jimmy Butler, Jae Crowder, Dwight Buycks, DJO all represented the university great and were awesome BB players.  Just my opinion, but it seems BB recruiting is so competitive and Marquette has the BB budget to be able to do this.  With many of our former players playing internationally it seems one might want to take that on as a career once his playing days are over.  I do not know who is allowed to recruit so maybe rules realistically limit our options.  But once you have a pipeline established it becomes easier.  Maybe 4 year traditionals aren't the only answer.

[tower912]

Wojo doesn't have then same kind of JUCO contacts that Buzz did.  And Marquette has tightened the academic standards.

[wadesworld]

And Wojo has two international kids on the roster.

[warriorchick]

The inability to recruit is not why this team isn't as successful as we would like.

[brewcity77]

We had JUCO Darrall Willis on campus for a visit but he picked Wichita State.

[jesmu84]

And Wojo has two international kids on the roster.

Wojo doesn't have then same kind of JUCO contacts that Buzz did.  And Marquette has tightened the academic standards.

But other than that....

[Goose]

Warrior chick

Interesting take. Why do you think the success is slower to happen then?

[warriorchick]

Warrior chick

Interesting take. Why do you think the success is slower to happen then?

What happens after recruiting.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

You're more likely going to wind up with Jamil Lott than you are Jimmy Butler.

[GGGG]

Warrior chick

Interesting take. Why do you think the success is slower to happen then?

Wojo isn't as good a coach as Buzz is at this point.  I also think he didn't recruit enough physicality for the BE.  I think he has learned that lesson the hard way.

[4everwarriors]

What happens after recruiting.

Ma just smacked down Wojo's ability to develop, aina?

[CTWarrior]

The inability to recruit is not why this team isn't as successful as we would like.

We are getting goods players, just not the right mix, so I would say the inability to recruit (and perhaps retain) effectively is a big part of the problem in my book.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I know I am opening up myself for criticism, but it seems that there are recruiting routes that Wojo and staff are not exploiting to get the best players on the court (given they academically qualify and don't have serious issues).  There are good players abroad and in Junior College that would represent Marquette well.  Jimmy Butler, Jae Crowder, Dwight Buycks, DJO all represented the university great and were awesome BB players.  Just my opinion, but it seems BB recruiting is so competitive and Marquette has the BB budget to be able to do this.  With many of our former players playing internationally it seems one might want to take that on as a career once his playing days are over.  I do not know who is allowed to recruit so maybe rules realistically limit our options.  But once you have a pipeline established it becomes easier.  Maybe 4 year traditionals aren't the only answer.

We have two international kids in the roster.

What JUCOs specifically should we have gone after? The talent pool the last few years has been really dry in the JUCO ranks.

[Bocephys]

Ma just smacked down Wojo's ability to develop, aina?

hees a deemoatavator

[brewcity77]

Wojo isn't as good a coach as Buzz is at this point.  I also think he didn't recruit enough physicality for the BE.  I think he has learned that lesson the hard way.

I think this touches on a huge point. Buzz was a perfect fit for the old Big East and recruited players that fit that league. The JUCO guys all had that chip on their shoulders and what they lacked in finesse they made up for in toughness. Even players who may not have been great talents, like Junior, Derrick, or Otule, you never questioned their toughness. That was a big part of his genius as a coach.

Wojo has been different from the start. All the focus on skills, recruiting guys who were basketball savvy but maybe lacked that edge. That works in the ACC, but teams like Seton Hall, Xavier, and Providence are going to beat you up as much as outscore you.

The roster reconstruction of the past two years indicates he's learning this, but that was an adjustment he had to make that just came naturally to Buzz.

[burger]

Give you one example......

Is the anyone in the Big East at guard the would ever "F" with DJO.....

He was a man......

We have a bunch of boys.....

[Pakuni]

Give you one example......

Is the anyone in the Big East at guard the would ever "F" with DJO.....

He was a man......

We have a bunch of boys.....

Hence Theo John and Ed Morrow.

[brewcity77]

Give you one example......

Is the anyone in the Big East at guard the would ever "F" with DJO.....

He was a man......

We have a bunch of boys.....

Elliott in a year, maybe. The one recruiting miss I wonder about is Kyle Washington. I look at him on Cincinnati and think he's the difference between a bubble team and a comfortable NCAA seed. We'll see if Morrow can be that type of player for us next year.

[skianth16]

I think this touches on a huge point. Buzz was a perfect fit for the old Big East and recruited players that fit that league. The JUCO guys all had that chip on their shoulders and what they lacked in finesse they made up for in toughness. Even players who may not have been great talents, like Junior, Derrick, or Otule, you never questioned their toughness. That was a big part of his genius as a coach.

Wojo has been different from the start. All the focus on skills, recruiting guys who were basketball savvy but maybe lacked that edge. That works in the ACC, but teams like Seton Hall, Xavier, and Providence are going to beat you up as much as outscore you.

The roster reconstruction of the past two years indicates he's learning this, but that was an adjustment he had to make that just came naturally to Buzz.

The bigger question in all of this to me is why it took him so long to figure it out. Did he skip the due diligence part of moving to a new league? How could he not know that winning in the Big East requires some physicality? I feel like that's been the Big East brand of basketball for a while now, even before MU joined the league. Shouldn't this have been more obvious to Wojo from day 1?

Maybe he was so ingrained in the Duke way of things that he had some trouble thinking outside that box. If that's the case, though, it kind of makes you wonder what his learning curve looks like compared to other coaches.

[GGGG]

I don’t think his learning curve is any worse than most first time coaches.

[Marcus92]

I don't think recruiting has been the issue per se. It's the general lack of experienced players: players with the on-court experience to contribute, and players physically mature and strong enough to compete in the Big East.

His first recruiting class in 2015 (just 3 years ago) was ranked nationally: Henry Ellenson, Haanif Cheatham, Sacar Anim, Traci Carter and Matt Heldt. Lots of talent and potential here. Only Sacar and Matt remain. That's been a huge setback for the program. Sacar needed a redshirt year to become a significant contributor as a sophomore. Matt was our primary backup at center last season and has established himself as the best of 3 players at a position of weakness this season.

His second recruiting class in 2016 was widely regarded as the best in the Big East: Markus Howard, Sam Hauser and Brendan Bailey. Sam started as a freshman and led the team in minutes. Markus led the nation in 3-point percentage and made the Big East all-freshman team. But they were still freshmen.

Sam was asked to play out of position defending the opposing team's 4 or even the 5, where he often gave up several inches and 20+ pounds in size. At just 175 pounds, Markus struggled with contact in the lane. Bailey, meanwhile, hasn't seen the court yet for Marquette due to his Mormon mission.

The class of 2017 (Theo John, Greg Elliott, Jamal Cain, Ike Eke, plus transfer Harry Froling) wasn't as highly rated. While Harry struggled, Theo, Gregg and Jamal all played at least 30 games and 10 minutes per game as freshmen, exceeding the expectations of most.

The class of 2018 adds another highly regarded prospect in Joey Hauser, bolstering a front court that looks to be a position of strength for the future.

While point guard remains a question mark, the team is stronger, deeper and more experienced than it was 3 years ago. I look forward to seeing what Wojo can do next season with a roster that should include at least 6 upperclassmen: senior Matt, plus juniors Markus, Sacar, Sam, Harry and Ed Morrow.

[Its DJOver]

Random question that applies here.

What recruiting class is Bailey officially part of, the group he committed with, or the group that he'll arrive with?

[skianth16]

I don’t think his learning curve is any worse than most first time coaches.

So far, I think I'd agree. But considering what we've seen from recruiting and his sometimes stubbornness in gameplanning, I wonder if he has Duke habits that might take him a while to break. Granted, you can assume a lot of Duke habits are good habits, but they may not always fit our roster or our conference.

There can be a fine line in coaching between pushing an idea with your team until it's perfected - the Syracuse zone comes to mind - versus continually doing something that doesn't work well even though it's comfortable - possibly like the shared minutes between Markus and Rowsey. It's a very hard thing to master, but treading that line, knowing when to be flexible and when to be rigid in your approach, is a big part of the difference between good and not so good coaches.

[Marcus92]

Random question that applies here.

What recruiting class is Bailey officially part of, the group he committed with, or the group that he'll arrive with?

Officially, he signed with the Class of 2016. But from here on he'll likely be considered part of the Class of 2018 since he'll be a freshman this fall.

[MUfan12]

MU still isn't there. I watched the BET games this weekend, and it struck me how far away MU is in terms of toughness and intensity.

[GooooMarquette]

Wojo needs to recruit on the avenues that have cracked sidewalks.

[4everwarriors]

Kneed more ass kickas and less choir boyz, hey?

[Goose]

4ever

Definite need for more athletes with a chip on their shoulder. IMO, Wojo is not nearly qualified to coach up choir boys at this point.

[brewcity77]

The bigger question in all of this to me is why it took him so long to figure it out. Did he skip the due diligence part of moving to a new league? How could he not know that winning in the Big East requires some physicality? I feel like that's been the Big East brand of basketball for a while now, even before MU joined the league. Shouldn't this have been more obvious to Wojo from day 1?

I think he might have realized it and just not been able to turn the roster over quick enough. Might Gabe Levin have helped? They went for Kyle Washington but he picked Cincy. Henry's presence may have kept those guys off our roster. I also think Duane and Traci had some more of that edge. Both left, which left us short handed. I realize only one was a Wojo recruit, but he may have been counting on Wilson to help the defense this year with more length and defensive ability in the back court.

Regardless, we are where we are. At least we're seeing the change now and hopefully that will pay off next year.

[cheebs09]

Buzz’s year as an assistant probably helped him identify the talent needed in the Big East as well.

[Marcus92]

Imagine if more than half of Kevin O'Neill's first recruiting class had left before their junior seasons. No Jim McIlvaine. No Damon Key. No way we make it to the NCAA tournament in O'Neill's fourth season. And no way we beat Kentucky the next year to make the Sweet 16.

Or if 2/3 of the original Three Amigos (Dominic James, Wes Matthews and Jerel McNeal) left the team before they were juniors.

[Pakuni]

Imagine if more than half of Kevin O'Neill's first recruiting class had left before their junior seasons. No Jim McIlvaine. No Damon Key. No way we make it to the NCAA tournament in O'Neill's fourth season. And no way we beat Kentucky the next year to make the Sweet 16.

Or if 2/3 of the original Three Amigos (Dominic James, Wes Matthews and Jerel McNeal) left the team before they were juniors.

There's a good chance those guys would have left had O'Neill/Crean recruited better players behind them that took away their playing time. That didn't happen, and they stayed.
That's how it works these days.

[The Lens]

Maybe Wojo thought this Catholic league would be softer.  Pitt was gone, UConn was gone, Cuse, etc. 

2014 was not a banner year for the NBE.  It’s conceivable he underestimated how it would evolve. 

[Marcus92]

There's a good chance those guys would have left had O'Neill/Crean recruited better players behind them that took away their playing time. That didn't happen, and they stayed. That's how it works these days.

True. Although that wasn't the case for most of the departures from Wojo's first recruiting class. Henry left for the NBA after one season. Haanif was playing 25+ minutes a game and left to be closer to home (he transferred to Florida Gulf Coast in his home state) due to a family matter.

The first was a virtual certainty. The second came as a surprise, announced the morning of a game day.

[i71_dawg]

MU still isn't there. I watched the BET games this weekend, and it struck me how far away MU is in terms of toughness and intensity.

This!

In light of this reality, I'm still very concerned about next year.  Expectations are high (as they should be), but I don't know if this team and these players will be able to make the jump in intensity and toughness needed to win at a high level in this league.

Top teams in the Big East work for 40 minutes and defend for 40 minutes with an intensity we've rarely seen out of Wojo's teams.  MU also still lacks the overall length, athleticism, and strength of most other Big East squads.

If Wojo can't finish in the top 4 next year in the Big East with all the players Nova, Xavier, Seton Hall, etc. are losing after this year (to graduation, NBA, etc.), then it's likely he'll never get us into the upper echelon of this conference.  Because you know SH, XU, Nova, Butler, Providence, and others will be back in a big way in future years, even if some of them take a step back next year.

And the funny thing is that despite losing lots of upperclassmen, I bet Chris Mack, Jay Wright, and Willard won't cry to the media after games claiming that they're "just so young."  They don't make excuses, and they don't plan to have down years where they miss the tourney.

If Xavier missed the tournament 4 out of 5 years (no matter what the circumstances), their fans would be outside the Cintas Center with pitchforks and Mack would be run out of town (no matter his past successes).  I hope we're not getting too used to mediocrity at MU.  With the fanbase, tradition, and money we spend on the program, MU should never, ever miss the tournament for even 2 straight years, let alone 4 out of 5 (barely getting in even the 1 year we did - last year).

[DCHoopster]

This!

In light of this reality, I'm still very concerned about next year.  Expectations are high (as they should be), but I don't know if this team and these players will be able to make the jump in intensity and toughness needed to win at a high level in this league.

Top teams in the Big East work for 40 minutes and defend for 40 minutes with an intensity we've rarely seen out of Wojo's teams.  MU also still lacks the overall length, athleticism, and strength of most other Big East squads.

If Wojo can't finish in the top 4 next year in the Big East with all the players Nova, Xavier, Seton Hall, etc. are losing after this year (to graduation, NBA, etc.), then it's likely he'll never get us into the upper echelon of this conference.  Because you know SH, XU, Nova, Butler, Providence, and others will be back in a big way in future years, even if some of them take a step back next year.

And the funny thing is that despite losing lots of upperclassmen, I bet Chris Mack, Jay Wright, and Willard won't cry to the media after games claiming that they're "just so young."  They don't make excuses, and they don't plan to have down years where they miss the tourney.

If Xavier missed the tournament 4 out of 5 years (no matter what the circumstances), their fans would be outside the Cintas Center with pitchforks and Mack would be run out of town (no matter his past successes).  I hope we're not getting too used to mediocrity at MU.  With the fanbase, tradition, and money we spend on the program, MU should never, ever miss the tournament for even 2 straight years, let alone 4 out of 5 (barely getting in even the 1 year we did - last year).

I agree on many of your points.  I am not sure what Morrow will bring to the table yet.  How they play him will be interesting.  Joey as well, and
Bailey.  8 players are back with experience, youth is over.  No excuse.  I believe they have to figure out how to play D next year or there record
will maybe be the same.  Bubble team but that can change with one more addition.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

And the funny thing is that despite losing lots of upperclassmen, I bet Chris Mack, Jay Wright, and Willard won't cry to the media after games claiming that they're "just so young."  They don't make excuses, and they don't plan to have down years where they miss the tourney.

If Xavier missed the tournament 4 out of 5 years (no matter what the circumstances), their fans would be outside the Cintas Center with pitchforks and Mack would be run out of town (no matter his past successes).  I hope we're not getting too used to mediocrity at MU.  With the fanbase, tradition, and money we spend on the program, MU should never, ever miss the tournament for even 2 straight years, let alone 4 out of 5 (barely getting in even the 1 year we did - last year).

Plenty of coaches talk about their teams being young and it being a challenge. Its not an excuse, its a reality. Fans only think of it as an excuse when its their team.

And while Xavier has been the model of consistency in terms of making the tournament, plenty of current coaches had 3/4 year stretches where they didn't make the tournament and they didn't get run out of town....especially at the beginning of their tenures. Jay Wright, Tony Bennett, Mark Turgeon, Mick Cronin to name a few. Of course there are even more coaches that had those stretches and were eventually fired, maybe even should have been fired sooner than they were. Time will tell which category Wojo will fall into.

[Herman Cain]

Kneed more ass kickas and less choir boyz, hey?

We need some pogo sticks that can create their own shot off the dribble. I think that would open things up for the softer kids to do their thing.

[Nukem2]

We need some pogo sticks that can create their own shot off the dribble. I think that would open things up for the softer kids to do their thing.

Jamal Cain and Greg Elliot will provide  a lot of that as they mature physically and gain more experience.  Having a healthy left hand will also allow Greg to be steadier off the dribble.

[LAZER]

This!

In light of this reality, I'm still very concerned about next year.  Expectations are high (as they should be), but I don't know if this team and these players will be able to make the jump in intensity and toughness needed to win at a high level in this league.

Top teams in the Big East work for 40 minutes and defend for 40 minutes with an intensity we've rarely seen out of Wojo's teams.  MU also still lacks the overall length, athleticism, and strength of most other Big East squads.

If Wojo can't finish in the top 4 next year in the Big East with all the players Nova, Xavier, Seton Hall, etc. are losing after this year (to graduation, NBA, etc.), then it's likely he'll never get us into the upper echelon of this conference.  Because you know SH, XU, Nova, Butler, Providence, and others will be back in a big way in future years, even if some of them take a step back next year.

And the funny thing is that despite losing lots of upperclassmen, I bet Chris Mack, Jay Wright, and Willard won't cry to the media after games claiming that they're "just so young."  They don't make excuses, and they don't plan to have down years where they miss the tourney.

If Xavier missed the tournament 4 out of 5 years (no matter what the circumstances), their fans would be outside the Cintas Center with pitchforks and Mack would be run out of town (no matter his past successes).  I hope we're not getting too used to mediocrity at MU.  With the fanbase, tradition, and money we spend on the program, MU should never, ever miss the tournament for even 2 straight years, let alone 4 out of 5 (barely getting in even the 1 year we did - last year).

He's not in the Big East, but every single year, sometime around January, Calipari will go off to the media how frustrating it is to have a young team.

[Babybluejeans]

What happens after recruiting.

Totally agree. I do think some of the "after recruiting" problems could be partly solved by bringing in JUCOs though. They can help fill gaps left by early-departed upperclassmen.

[Anti-Dentite]

This is just eye test but I can’t even count the times I’ve yelled get on the floor during a scramble. It seems to have gotten a little better this year but I think it speaks to the toughness factor that seems to be missing in the Wojo era.

[forgetful]

Did everyone forget the revolving door Buzz created involving recruiting misses, and people he couldn't develop? 

I think some people have amnesia regarding some things that transpired under Buzz. 

Did he have some home runs, yes, but he had a hell of a lot of strike outs also. 

Wojo has had success developing Rowsey into an actual PG.  He has had a lot of success in developing Sacar.  The huge improvements of this year's freshman, throughout the year are frankly quite amazing. 

Theo John alone went from a guy that could miss a layup so bad that the ball would ricochet off the backboard to the half court line, into a guy that can turn with either hand and step out and hit a 15 foot jump shot. 

I think most people just have selective memories, and unreal expectations of what Wojo should have done.  Give Buzz Wojo's starting talent instead of the three amigo's and he would have struggled tremendously.

[CTWarrior]

I think some people have amnesia regarding some things that transpired under Buzz.

You are much more likely to overlook shortcomings when you are winning.

There would be a lot less complaining now if we were annually making NCAA tournaments and winning some games in them.  There'd still be complaining, just less of it.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Totally agree. I do think some of the "after recruiting" problems could be partly solved by bringing in JUCOs though. They can help fill gaps left by early-departed upperclassmen.

I did an exercise a year or two ago. I looked at the all the top 100 JUCO lists from the years where Wojo was coach. In the 300 JUCOs I looked at, there were maybe a dozen who would have been anything more than a back of the rotation player for Marquette. JUCO is not this magical place where a bunch of high major ready players are hiding. The reality is that there are a select few JUCOs who are good enough to play at Marquette and those few are highly sought after.

Buzz spoiled us with JUCOs. His run of Buycks, DJO, Crowder, JFB, and McKay (really wish he stayed here) was one of the best groups of JUCOs (maybe the best) in the modern era of college basketball. He had the networks at that level and was the best in the business at working with JUCOs. That is not what most high majors experiences are with JUCOs.

Also, Wojo has recruited at least three JUCOs that I know of. Jimario Rivers (Memphis), Brandon Brown (Loyola Marymount), and Darral Willis Jr (Wichita State). Even got Willis Jr on campus. He's willing to recruit JUCOs, he just hasn't landed any.

[Spotcheck Billy]

Did everyone forget the revolving door Buzz created involving recruiting misses, and people he couldn't develop? 

I think some people have amnesia regarding some things that transpired under Buzz. 

Did he have some home runs, yes, but he had a hell of a lot of strike outs also. 

Wojo has had success developing Rowsey into an actual PG.  He has had a lot of success in developing Sacar.  The huge improvements of this year's freshman, throughout the year are frankly quite amazing. 

Theo John alone went from a guy that could miss a layup so bad that the ball would ricochet off the backboard to the half court line, into a guy that can turn with either hand and step out and hit a 15 foot jump shot. 

I think most people just have selective memories, and unreal expectations of what Wojo should have done.  Give Buzz Wojo's starting talent instead of the three amigo's and he would have struggled tremendously.

Good post.
With all of the revisionist Buzz-love sometimes I feel I must be the only one that thought Buzz had a big learning curve initially with the X's & O's. Reading recent posts it seems like Buzz started out as a great in-game coach but I remember many WTF is he doing moments.

[Pakuni]

And the funny thing is that despite losing lots of upperclassmen, I bet Chris Mack, Jay Wright, and Willard won't cry to the media after games claiming that they're "just so young."  They don't make excuses, and they don't plan to have down years where they miss the tourney.

Jay Wright didn't make the NCAA tourney until his fourth year at 'Nova, and by then he had 10 years experience as a head coach.
Kevin Willard didn't make the tourney until his sixth season at Seton Hall, and by then he had nine years experience as a head coach.
Neither would have lasted long enough to see their current success with some of you guys in charge.

[nyg]

Good post.
With all of the revisionist Buzz-love sometimes I feel I must be the only one that thought Buzz had a big learning curve initially with the X's & O's. Reading recent posts it seems like Buzz started out as a great in-game coach but I remember many WTF is he doing moments.

Yes, I remember all the substitutions he used to do, just non-stop.  Drove a bunch of us just crazy. 

[tower912]

Buzz would sub somebody at nearly every dead ball after the first 4 minutes.     Rarely had that deep of a team, so he would get guys 30-45 seconds of rest at a time and then back at it.   

[nyg]

Buzz would sub somebody at nearly every dead ball after the first 4 minutes.     Rarely had that deep of a team, so he would get guys 30-45 seconds of rest at a time and then back at it.

I knew someone out there would remember, my goodness that was frustrating to watch.  Time flies.......

[Goose]

I'm a Buzz guy, but never thought the guy could coach worth a damn. I actually thought Wojo would have this skill after sitting next to K for decades. Of all the questions I have about the program, why Wojo is not a better game coach is high on my list.

[Babybluejeans]

I knew someone out there would remember, my goodness that was frustrating to watch.  Time flies.......

Yep, on top of those hockey-style subs, it seemed like Buzz always removed a player right after he made a big play or got hot. Super frustrating. So yea, it definitely took him time to grow into being a good in-game coach, but the other stuff (chip-on-shoulder toughness, specifically) he was able to instill in the team from the get-go.

[muwarrior69]

This is just eye test but I can’t even count the times I’ve yelled get on the floor during a scramble. It seems to have gotten a little better this year but I think it speaks to the toughness factor that seems to be missing in the Wojo era.

...and it's just not the toughness factor; sometime I get the sense that they don't have the confidence that they'll win. You can see it with inbound plays where we are just unsure. I think it has also affected our defense as they don't think they can make the defensive play without fouling; but that is just my "eye test" and others see it differently.

[BM1090]

I'm a Buzz guy, but never thought the guy could coach worth a damn. I actually thought Wojo would have this skill after sitting next to K for decades. Of all the questions I have about the program, why Wojo is not a better game coach is high on my list.

Do you think he's a good X's and O's guy on the offensive end? We've had two very highly ranked offenses the past two years.

Obviously the defense has been discussed and there are differing opinions on whether it's the result of scheme or personnel, so I'll save that question for next year.

[Billy Hoyle]

I'm a Buzz guy, but never thought the guy could coach worth a damn. I actually thought Wojo would have this skill after sitting next to K for decades. Of all the questions I have about the program, why Wojo is not a better game coach is high on my list.

talent.  One doesn't have to coach all that much at Duke with all of those McDonald's AA's.  I also wonder how much autonomy Coach K gives his assistants.  Looking at the former K players who became assistants for him and then coaches elsewhere, none could be called X's and O's masters. Coaching at Duke does not adequately prepare one for the coaching real world.

[Goose]

Billy

Come on. You really think Coach K only wins due to talent? There was a time he won with far less talent. My take on the former assistants, they all were former Duke players and not outside guys. They might have been more window dressing than real contributors on the bench.

[jesmu84]

Buzz recruited JUCO to an amazing level. But he was not great at developing high school talent.

When the JUCO well ran dry and his high school recruiting/developing came to the forefront, we saw the results - his last season.

I loved Buzz's time at MU.

[GGGG]

talent.  One doesn't have to coach all that much at Duke with all of those McDonald's AA's.  I also wonder how much autonomy Coach K gives his assistants.  Looking at the former K players who became assistants for him and then coaches elsewhere, none could be called X's and O's masters. Coaching at Duke does not adequately prepare one for the coaching real world.

To be honest, I'm not sure how many Xs and Os "masters" there are in college basketball any more. 

[Goose]

jesmu

Buzz checked out after ‘Cuse loss and such is life. Not one good thing happened on WI for the next twelve months. No well trying up, just a coach counting the days until he was gone.

[GooooMarquette]

talent.  One doesn't have to coach all that much at Duke with all of those McDonald's AA's.  I also wonder how much autonomy Coach K gives his assistants.  Looking at the former K players who became assistants for him and then coaches elsewhere, none could be called X's and O's masters. Coaching at Duke does not adequately prepare one for the coaching real world.

I would argue that one does have to coach...but the only one who really does it is K. If memory serves, their most disappointing season was when he had back surgery and had to sit the year out. I remember thinking at the time that they'd be fine "with all that talent." By the end of the season, I started to appreciate his coaching ability. My sense given that season and the history of his assistants is that he doesn't give his guys nearly as much authority as a guy like Izzo.

As I look at Wojo, I am optimistic because he has been a very high level recruiter from the word go. IMHO recruiting is largely a personality thing - convincing parents that you'll take care of their kids, and convincing kids that you'll help them get to the next level - so either you have it or you don't. Wojo has it.

I think Wojo still has work to do as a bench coach - being the guy who bears the ultimate responsibility for in-game strategies, substitution patterns and such - but IMHO that's a skill that can be learned with experience. He clearly knows the basic Xs and Os, so it's just a matter of fine-tuning what works and what doesn't in game situations.

[Billy Hoyle]

Billy

Come on. You really think Coach K only wins due to talent? There was a time he won with far less talent. My take on the former assistants, they all were former Duke players and not outside guys. They might have been more window dressing than real contributors on the bench.

no, he has superior talent and has since the mid 80's.  He's a good coach for sure but give him Georgia Tech's roster or even UVA's and see where he finishes in the ACC. And I agree with your take on the assistants.  Brey is the only one to have sustained success, and he wasn't a former player.

[Pakuni]

no, he has superior talent and has since the mid 80's.  He's a good coach for sure but give him Georgia Tech's roster or even UVA's and see where he finishes in the ACC. And I agree with your take on the assistants.  Brey is the only one to have sustained success, and he wasn't a former player.

For what it's worth, after he got himself clean, Quin Snyder has become a really solid NBA coach. Being seven game over .500 in the West with the roster he has is pretty impressive.

[GooooMarquette]

For what it's worth, after he got himself clean, Quin Snyder has become a really solid NBA coach. Being seven game over .500 in the West with the roster he has is pretty impressive.

Given that pro and college coaching is pretty different (see Calipari and Pitino), it's interesting that the (arguably) most successful former K player/assistant is having his best success in the NBA. Might just be a coincidence...

[GGGG]

The best Xs and Os coaches BY FAR are in the NBA.

[jonny09]

After four years at MU Wojo still can't get his players up to snuff defensively.  What makes you think that is going to change next year?    I'm not saying it won't.  I'm just saying as of yet there is no reason to believe he can coach defense.  All the yelling and posturing in the world won't help.  You can either be a great leader of men or not.    So far (sad to say) not.   

[Galway Eagle]

After four years at MU Wojo still can't get his players up to snuff defensively.  What makes you think that is going to change next year?    I'm not saying it won't.  I'm just saying as of yet there is no reason to believe he can coach defense.  All the yelling and posturing in the world won't help.  You can either be a great leader of men or not.    So far (sad to say) not.

Because we saw marginal improvement from the freshmen throughout the year and we know Morrow can defend from his time at Nebraska. Even if wojo cant coach D there will be marginal improvement that comes from the current freshmen getting bigger and morrows addition

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

After four years at MU Wojo still can't get his players up to snuff defensively.  What makes you think that is going to change next year?    I'm not saying it won't.  I'm just saying as of yet there is no reason to believe he can coach defense.  All the yelling and posturing in the world won't help.  You can either be a great leader of men or not.    So far (sad to say) not.

Because before two of his best players were 5'10 turnstiles, Wojo had a top 100 defense each year he coached and his teams were actually better at defense then offense, playing the same scheme we are now. The bigger issue is personnel IMHO. The worst offender will be graduating this offseason.

[JakeBarnes]

Because before two of his best players were 5'10 turnstiles, Wojo had a top 100 defense each year he coached and his teams were actually better at defense then offense, playing the same scheme we are now. The bigger issue is personnel IMHO. The worst offender will be graduating this offseason.

I think this is the opinion I have at the moment. The defensive woes stemmed a lot from middling perimeter defenders that weren't very tall/long. Switching opened up a lot of vulnerabilities and stretching out the 5 to hedge didn't either--both of which were a product of trying to cover up the perimeter defense being so full of holes.

I feel like we are bound for a bit of a correct on defense next year. Get it to a 70-100 ranked defense and keep going on offense (which I think we can expect a slight downturn) and it's a pretty solid team.