Indiana at Wisconsin tonight ESPN

[MuMark]

It was a neutral site game in NY.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Actually Pitt wasn't even ranked at the time IU beat them early in the 2009-2010 season (and it was a home game for IU) - they finished the season as a 3 seed, but had many problems early in 2009.  So, to answer your question - yes, beating a ranked Wisconsin team AT HOME where they are virtually unbeatable would DWARF beating Pitt in 2009.

And no - I don't TRY to find a negative in every post of CBB - but in this case he did react defensive and sensitively...when the original poster made a valid point.  You'll notice I credited his IU Hoosiers and how they played in the Wisconsin game -and didn't even disagree with his statement that IU played better against UW than we did...

Uhm, no, it was a NEUTRAL site game, not a HOME game.  The game was played in New York, far closer to Pittsburgh then Bloomington, on a court and stadium that Pitt is used to playing on for the Big East Tournament and against St. John's.

Pitt was 7-1 entering that game, IU was 3-4. It would be the last game Pittsburgh would lose until they got to the 15 win mark. 

I'm surprised you didn't know it was Crean's 200th win as a head coach.   

[ChicosBailBonds]

157-11 at the Kohl or something like that is what I believe the graphic said since Bo has been there.  Is it just me or does that just seem WRONG - I would venture to say that no team in the last 50 years has been that dominant at home and NOT won any postseason tournament or even threatened to do so.  What conclusion can we draw from that???

What do you mean by post season tournament?  They've won the Big Ten conference tournament twice and also finished runner-up once.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Uhm, no, it was a NEUTRAL site game, not a HOME game.  The game was played in New York, far closer to Pittsburgh then Bloomington, on a court and stadium that Pitt is used to playing on for the Big East Tournament and against St. John's.

Pitt was 7-1 entering that game, IU was 3-4. It would be the last game Pittsburgh would lose until they got to the 15 win mark. 

I'm surprised you didn't know it was Crean's 200th win as a head coach.   

Beating Wisconin in Madison would have been a much better and more significant win. Dwarf? Maybe not. Absolutely and without question bigger for Indiana than the Pitt win.

It's wonderful for Indiana that such "what ifs" can be discussed. Beating Penn State in Bloomington would have been huge, too.

[warthog-driver]

Beating Wisconin in Madison would have been a much better and more significant win.

Beating anyone anywhere is a significant win these days for the Crimson and Crean

[ChicosBailBonds]

Beating Wisconin in Madison would have been a much better and more significant win. Dwarf? Maybe not. Absolutely and without question bigger for Indiana than the Pitt win.

It's wonderful for Indiana that such "what ifs" can be discussed. Beating Penn State in Bloomington would have been huge, too.

Conference teams can bite someone at any time....see DePaul's lone win in 40 games.  Teams in conference know each other very well.  People expect from time to time that a conference team will beat another, just like Florida State seems to bite Duke on a semi-regular basis.  To me you get more national recognition when you're beating a national power in a cross sectional game.  Of course not everyone will agree.

[Lennys Tap]

Beating Wisconin in Madison would have been a much better and more significant win. Dwarf? Maybe not. Absolutely and without question bigger for Indiana than the Pitt win.

It's wonderful for Indiana that such "what ifs" can be discussed. Beating Penn State in Bloomington would have been huge, too.

Let's see. Beating an unranked team that is struggling with the "cupcake" segment of their schedule on a neutral court vs beating a ranked team in late January in one of the most difficult road venues in all of college basketball? Tough choice.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Fortunately, they lost and continue to take solace in "close calls." My how the great Indiana Hoosiers have fallen! It's pathetic, really. In year 3 (!) they're content with close losses. Top 5 program of all time? Give me a break. They're on their way through the floor boards. Better jobs in the Big Ten: MSU, Wisconsin, Ohio State, Purdue and arguably Illinois.

Blame it all on Sampson, the guy who had them ranked in the top 5 two years after his predessor left! I'm sure that was all due to a few dozen phone calls.

[MerrittsMustache]

What do you mean by post season tournament?  They've won the Big Ten conference tournament twice and also finished runner-up once.

He means the postseason tournament that actually matters.

[leever]

You guys mean 'little people', right?  'Dwarf' is very insensitive and politically incorrect.

[ChicosBailBonds]

He means the postseason tournament that actually matters.

Well they made the Final Four and Elite 8 this decade...only a handful of teams in the country can say that, and they do it with players not ranked nearly as high as ours.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Let's see. Beating an unranked team that is struggling with the "cupcake" segment of their schedule on a neutral court vs beating a ranked team in late January in one of the most difficult road venues in all of college basketball? Tough choice.

Let's see.  Beating a team that earns a #3 seed in the NCAA tournament and wins 25 games that wasn't ranked in November because we all know how great the AP and Coaches rankings are      ......

[warthog-driver]

Fortunately, they lost and continue to take solace in "close calls." My how the great Indiana Hoosiers have fallen! It's pathetic, really.

Close calls - the moral equivalent of a reach around?

[dad's couch]

RE: Pitt v IU game

Actually, Pitt was missing one player due to academics  (last game he missed) and was another player's first game back from injury. Can't recall the two players but one was a starter and the other ended up getting significant PT in BE play. As someone mentioned earlier, there was a reason Pitt went on its run after this game. Yeah, IU/Crean can point to that game as a huge win. But in reality it was a against an undermanned team.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

Well they made the Final Four and Elite 8 this decade....

No they haven't.

[Pakuni]

RE: Pitt v IU game

Actually, Pitt was missing one player due to academics  (last game he missed) and was another player's first game back from injury. Can't recall the two players but one was a starter and the other ended up getting significant PT in BE play. As someone mentioned earlier, there was a reason Pitt went on its run after this game. Yeah, IU/Crean can point to that game as a huge win. But in reality it was a against an undermanned team.

Gilbert Brown missed that game for academic suspesion and Jermaine Dixon was coming off an injury. He played just 13 minutes, scoring no points.

But seriously, why are we debating an Indiana-Pitt game from 13 months ago?

[El Duderino]

Bo and his teams have been amazing in the Kohl Center, the record speaks for itself. Anywhere else they are nothing special though and thus it's why his postseason success is much more limited, UW doesn't get to play NCAA Tournament games at home.

[Lennys Tap]

Gilbert Brown missed that game for academic suspesion and Jermaine Dixon was coming off an injury. He played just 13 minutes, scoring no points.

But seriously, why are we debating an Indiana-Pitt game from 13 months ago?

Not much debate. All but one agree with with the fact that beating an unranked  team riddled by injury and academic suspension on a neutral court in December is easier than beating an at home full strength ranked opponent in January at an arena that rates as the toughest in the Big 10.

[jmayer1]

Well they made the Final Four and Elite 8 this decade...only a handful of teams in the country can say that, and they do it with players not ranked nearly as high as ours.

Since 2002 (the first year Scout had info):

MU - 41 players committed, 126 total stars (per scout), avg - 3.07 stars

UW - 32 players committed, 107 total stars (per scout), avg - 3.34 stars

What has been said is that UW recruiting has been slipping a bit the past few years, which it has been, at least according to the ratings, as compared to Bo's 1st 7 years, but I have already posted the support on that numerous times so there's no need to repost.

[Pakuni]

Since 2002 (the first year Scout had info):

MU - 41 players committed, 126 total stars (per scout), avg - 3.07 stars

UW - 32 players committed, 107 total stars (per scout), avg - 3.34 stars

What has been said is that UW recruiting has been slipping a bit the past few years, which it has been, at least according to the ratings, as compared to Bo's 1st 7 years, but I have already posted the support on that numerous times so there's no need to repost.

It's pretty obvious Bo has managed to win with a bunch of lightly recruited no talents like Devin Harris, Brian Butch, Alando Tucker, Mike Wilkinson, Marcus Landry, Trevonn Hughes, Jason Bohannon, Joe Krabbenhoft, Kirk Penney, etc.
It's a miracle he's managed 10 wins a season with those stiffs.
(Hopefully teal is unnecessary here)

[ChicosBailBonds]

No they haven't.

Sorry, since 2000...I forgot we're in 2011.

2000 FINAL FOUR
2005 Elite 8

[ChicosBailBonds]

Since 2002 (the first year Scout had info):

MU - 41 players committed, 126 total stars (per scout), avg - 3.07 stars

UW - 32 players committed, 107 total stars (per scout), avg - 3.34 stars

What has been said is that UW recruiting has been slipping a bit the past few years, which it has been, at least according to the ratings, as compared to Bo's 1st 7 years, but I have already posted the support on that numerous times so there's no need to repost.

We went through this the other day in the RSCI posts...it's not even close.  You're using one scouting service, Scout, to make your argument.  RSCI uses all the major scouting services.  The RSCI numbers showed MU has not only landed more in Quantity of RSCI top 100 players but also better Quality of RSCI top 100 players (i.e. more players ranked higher).  The problem is that we've had a lot of them leave and not stick around.

I'm happy to past the link for you again.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Not much debate. All but one agree with with the fact that beating an unranked  team riddled by injury and academic suspension on a neutral court in December is easier than beating an at home full strength ranked opponent in January at an arena that rates as the toughest in the Big 10.

All but one?  I didn't realize everyone chimed in, must be like "vast majority".

Secondly, using your logic you would say our win last year against #15 Michigan was a better win than our win against Xavier.  Afterall, Michigan had a cute little ranking number next to them in November but Xavier didn't.  Of course we all know that Michigan crapped the bed and ended up terrible and Xavier ended up going 26-9 and lost in double OT to Kansas State in the Sweet 16.   But using your logic, the Michigan win was a better one because they were ranked and Xavier wasn't at the time we played them.   Hilarity.


So far in this thread I've learned that the IU game against Pitt was in Bloomington, but it wasn't.

I've learned beating a ranked team in November is better than beating a team that ends up with seeded 3rd in the NCAA tournament and winning 25 games

I've learned that Gilbert Brown missed "that game" for academic suspension...when in fact he missed EVERY game in the Fall Semester and yet by some miracle Pitt was still able to go 10-2 without him. 

I've learned Scout really loves giving stars to Wisconsin-madison players but apparently all the other recruiting services don't.

 

[Pakuni]

I've learned Scout really loves giving stars to Wisconsin-madison players but apparently all the other recruiting services don't.

A little ironic that the guy who repeatedly says he finds star rankings and the like meaningless is basing his entire argument about UW's recruiting on the RSCI rather than ... oh, I don't know ... how well the players actually performed.
Again, read the names of the players who've been on Bo's roster over the last decade and try to tell us he succeeds with "lesser" talent.
Lesser than Duke, I suppose. But not lesser than the great majority of his competition.

[NersEllenson]

Uhm, no, it was a NEUTRAL site game, not a HOME game.  The game was played in New York, far closer to Pittsburgh then Bloomington, on a court and stadium that Pitt is used to playing on for the Big East Tournament and against St. John's.

Pitt was 7-1 entering that game, IU was 3-4. It would be the last game Pittsburgh would lose until they got to the 15 win mark. 

I'm surprised you didn't know it was Crean's 200th win as a head coach.    

I'm surprised considering your stated dislike for Tom Crean that you actually know such a pedestrian fact such as a coach's 200th win?  Pretty obscure accomplishment to have knowledge of for a coach one dislikes and thinks is a jerk, etc., as you've mentioned before.   

My bad on stating the Pitt game was at Indiana - when it was on a neutral court.