Teve Transferring

[brewcity77]

What exactly is that supposed to mean, it will be squarely on his shoulders? Why is Taylor leaving? Did he leave because of Wojo? Expected playing time? Something else? Oh that's right, you don't know. Should Wojo and Taylor work together to see that he gets playing time he may not be worthy of? Should they ignore whatever his reasons for leaving in order to keep him on the team? Did Steve choose to play for Wojo when he selected MU? Is it really Wojo's fault if one or both of them don't see him as a fit here? Just  an odd comment on your part. Believe it or not, the players have a say and play a major role in these decisions.

I don't think jsglow is trying to troll. Steve was already earning playing time. He was going to be the only senior on a team with 4 players over 6'6", two of whom will be freshmen, so he would likely continue to earn playing time.

Seniors transferring without a degree isn't common. Especially when PT seems to be available. I'm chalking this one up to regular roster turnover when there's a coaching change. It happens, it always does. But this team needs more strength in the frontcourt, and Steve was the best example of that on the current roster. Losing him is a big, though not irreplaceable, loss.

Wojo had a year to recruit Steve for his senior year. I just hope he can recruit someone else to fill that spot in the next month.

[Dawson Rental]

Sorry to hear about Steve's move. Sounds like he is a really nice kid and, hopefully, a good student. Would think he'd get more mileage out of a degree from Marquette than where ever he may land at this time in place.

Honestly, though, never really impressed me while on the floor during his tenure here. Not what I would expect from a Simeon High School kid at a high major school. Has size but was woefully inept around the basket, not really athletic for a big guy or fluid and a disappointment for me as a junior who should have contributed far more this year.

Neither he or Luke would have gotten much floor time on a team with any decent bigs this year, truthfully. They have the "numbers' but haven't displayed the ability to compete vs. average competition at this level or at a level necessary to be competitive in the Big East.

Wouldn't have pulled his scholly. though, either. He was invited to come here and I would have hoped we stuck with him for his final year if he intended on staying...... Just sayin'

I feel that you are selling Luke short.  I've said before that IMO including Marquette, Luke would have started on six of the Big East's 10 teams.  The four where he wouldn't have?  Villanova, Georgetown, St. John's and Xavier.  At Seton Hall, he would have moved Delgado over to the four.

[Dawson Rental]

If I have been paying attention...

ChiTownJuan is friends with JSGlow & Warrior Chick's Love Child.  ChiTownJuan is NOT their Love Child.

To date I don't know if we have an outed Father / Son combo on the board.   

Oh, so its a "The Talented Mr. Ripley" type situation.  Why doesn't jsglowjr post anymore?  ChiTownJuan what have you done with him????

[warriorchick]

Jsglow is definitely not my dad. Hahaha.

LOL.  Can definitely confirm. Chitown is way too tall to be jsglow's kid.

[jsglow]

What exactly is that supposed to mean, it will be squarely on his shoulders? Why is Taylor leaving? Did he leave because of Wojo? Expected playing time? Something else? Oh that's right, you don't know. Should Wojo and Taylor work together to see that he gets playing time he may not be worthy of? Should they ignore whatever his reasons for leaving in order to keep him on the team? Did Steve choose to play for Wojo when he selected MU? Is it really Wojo's fault if one or both of them don't see him as a fit here? Just  an odd comment on your part. Believe it or not, the players have a say and play a major role in these decisions.

What is squarely on Wojo shoulders is the responsibility to put a credible product on the floor next year.  To the extent he has noticeable roster gaps, that's his responsibility.  Let me try to provide an analogy.  If Taylor's departure means that an ill prepared Matt Heldt is forced to play 25 minutes (mind you, I'm not picking on Matt), then Wojo must take responsibility for that.  Last year, of course not.

I'm not suggesting in any way that Wojo drove Steve off the team.  But we all seem to agree that his decision to leave is curious at a minimum.  I'm simply saying that Wojo now has an obligation to do something about it.  Or, said another way, it's 'on his shoulders'.  Hope that clarifies.

I find it interesting that some here are sensing that I'm switching to the 'dark side' or whatever.  The 2014-15 season is over.  I expect Marquette basketball to begin a return toward prominence beginning immediately.  To borrow coach's phrase, win every day.  I personally don't think we won yesterday when our lone Senior decided that his future was better served by being somewhere else.  I'm not suggesting there's something rotten to the core with the program but this does concern me a bit.  

[warriorchick]

Oh, so its a "The Talented Mr. Ripley" type situation.  Why doesn't jsglowjr post anymore?  ChiTownJuan what have you done with him????

To my knowledge, jsglowjr has never posted.

[jsglow]

I do think Wojo could weather another losing season, as long as it was better than this, but with the recruiting class he has coming in and two solid foundation pieces in Duane and Luke, next year I agree that we really do need to be more competitive. The NIT should be the lowest bar for next year's team. If Wojo can't replace Steve and we are even worse on the boards in 2015-16, then I'm sure jsglow won't be alone in wondering about the direction of the program.

I'm optimistic. I think the staff may already have Steve's replacement lined up and think the team will be notably better next year. But that's my nature. I'm the guy that looks for the best. That doesn't mean we shouldn't be bracing for the worst and be willing to be honest about where things are at. With Steve gone, things are not as good today as they were yesterday.

I think you and I are speaking the same language.  Let me add that I don't think Wojo would be fired 365 days from now if we went 15-17 next year.  But he'd certainly be squarely on the 'hot seat' for the following.

[MU82]

I think you and I are speaking the same language.  Let me add that I don't think Wojo would be fired 365 days from now if we went 15-17 next year.  But he'd certainly be squarely on the 'hot seat' for the following.

This is probably true, and it is a major reason -- along with simply wanting to enjoy Warrior basketball more -- I hope we make marked improvement next season.

I don't think I'll be able to visit this site any more if Wojo gets on the hot seat after two years. It would be more fun to gouge out my eyeballs with a dull ax.

Oh, and who is this Tevye everybody keeps talking about, and why isn't he on the roof with a fiddle?

[jsglow]

If I have been paying attention...

ChiTownJuan is friends with JSGlow & Warrior Chick's Love Child.  ChiTownJuan is NOT their Love Child.

To date I don't know if we have an outed Father / Son combo on the board.   

I hadn't seen this.  That's quite funny Lens.  (In my best Darth voice) Chitown, I am NOT your father.  But I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

[4everwarriors]

Wojo is doin' his job. Has now recruited over Taylor, as any good coach/recruiter should. #25 simply saw the writin' on the wall with regards to playin' time and opted out. Nothin' to see here. Next man up, ai na?

[brewcity77]

I think you and I are speaking the same language.  Let me add that I don't think Wojo would be fired 365 days from now if we went 15-17 next year.  But he'd certainly be squarely on the 'hot seat' for the following.

We are. Not in panic mode, not declaring Wojo will be gone if he's under .500, but there needs to be improvement and right now, it looks to start with who will fill Steve's expected role.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

I think you and I are speaking the same language.  Let me add that I don't think Wojo would be fired 365 days from now if we went 15-17 next year.  But he'd certainly be squarely on the 'hot seat' for the following.

This probably warrants its own thread, but here is my measure.  This year was a dumpster fire with very little to be excited about.  Even though it felt like we had a young team b/c of Luke/Duane/JJJ we actually had a pretty old team that just didnt have the horsepower to compete in a high major D1 program.

Next year I am expecting 1. Talent that I am excited about (still feel this year we had only 2-2.5 players on the roster that I am excited about seeing next year) 2. Flashes of brilliance followed by bonehead mistakes typically made by young players, 3. A team that is trending up at the end of the year (hopefully to a postseason tourney that I would be proud to brag about) and 4. Freshman that are exiting the year better than they entered

If we see all four it will be a fun season -- let the record fall where it may.  If we don't see all four I will be scratching my head a bit about whether or not things will turn and we will make it back.  

[NavinRJohnson]

But we all seem to agree that his decision to leave is curious at a minimum.  I'm simply saying that Wojo now has an obligation to do something about it.  Or, said another way, it's 'on his shoulders'.  Hope that clarifies.

You may want to look through this thread again, as I don't think there is agreement on that at all. Me thinks you are projecting your own opinion and convincing yourself it is the consensus.

Of course a complete roster is Wojo's responsibility, but to suggest that he should be able to complete that in a year is a bit ridiculous, given the train wreck he inherited. If they are short a 6-10 guy next year because Steve Taylor, who was not likely to contribute much, decided to transfer, for whatever reasons, I am going to have a hard time arguing that the coach should have been able to do something about that when in his first real class he has brought in a 5-star, and four 4-star players.

The hand wringing over Steve Taylor is a bit strange. There's really two alternatives...either he convinced him to stay and likley ride the bench, or here fruits somebody better. One could argue he has already done that, but if you think he still needs to do more, that's fine, but I would suggest expecting that in he first 12-18 months is probably not realistic or fair. Does he really need to go out and get another highly rated recruit  (and a 6-10 one at that) to come in and immediately contribute next year in order to satisfy you/take this off of his shoulders? Granted, I hope he does it, but your expectations may be a little out of whack for just how much he should be able to accomplish in a year.

[NavinRJohnson]

, it looks to start with who will fill Steve's expected role.

What role, and expected by whom? The kid just isn't anything special. If they have trouble filling 10 minutes off the bench, then yes, there may be a problem, because that is what I would have expected of him next year (at the moment anyway). If he was to be depended on for much more than that, they weren't going to be any good anyway.

[jsglow]

You may want to look through this thread again, as I don't think there is agreement on that at all. Me thinks you are projecting your own opinion and convincing yourself it is the consensus.

Of course a complete roster is Wojo's responsibility, but to suggest that he should be able to complete that in a year is a bit ridiculous, given the train wreck he inherited. If they are short a 6-10 guy next year because Steve Taylor, who was not likely to contribute much, decided to transfer, for whatever reasons, I am going to have a hard time arguing that the coach should have been able to do something about that when in his first real class he has brought in a 5-star, and four 4-star players.

The hand wringing over Steve Taylor is a bit strange. There's really two alternatives...either he convinced him to stay and likley ride the bench, or here fruits somebody better. One could argue he has already done that, but if you think he still needs to do more, that's fine, but I would suggest expecting that in he first 12-18 months is probably not realistic or fair. Does he really need to go out and get another highly rated recruit  (and a 6-10 one at that) to come in and immediately contribute next year in order to satisfy you/take this off of his shoulders? Granted, I hope he does it, but your expectations may be a little out of whack for just how much he should be able to accomplish in a year.

He needs to do more.  I'd suggest that it's time to add a Juco PF who can earn 20 minutes off the bench.  Right now if Henry gets into foul trouble Wally or a guard has to play the 4.  We're not talking about some 4 or 5 star.  But right now he has no answer for Steve's 20-25 minutes.  He needs to find one.  That's all I'm saying.  And I do think that most agree that it's unusual for a Senior who can expect to see meaningful playing time to make the decision to transfer.

[jsglow]

What role, and expected by whom? The kid just isn't anything special. If they have trouble filling 10 minutes off the bench, then yes, there may be a problem, because that is what I would have expected of him next year (at the moment anyway). If he was to be depended on for much more than that, they weren't going to be any good anyway.

Steve wasn't going to be playing 10 minutes next year.

[Aughnanure]

Why did Gabe Levin leave?

[NavinRJohnson]

Steve wasn't going to be playing 10 minutes next year.

Really? Why did he leave (I'll need specifics)?

[Lennys Tap]

Why did Gabe Levin leave?

He was the first casualty of the Henry Ellenson recruitment. Mediocre players don't cotton to really good younger players coming in at their position. Really good ones don't mind.

[brewcity77]

What role, and expected by whom? The kid just isn't anything special. If they have trouble filling 10 minutes off the bench, then yes, there may be a problem, because that is what I would have expected of him next year (at the moment anyway). If he was to be depended on for much more than that, they weren't going to be any good anyway.

The role of rebounder. Wojo talked about rebounding in post-game interviews the past few games and how it has hurt us. I don't think the most optimistic of fans could dispute that this team needs to rebound better if we want to get back to postseason play. Steve had his deficiencies, but he was the best rebounder on the team and over the last few weeks was very good on the glass.

We need someone who can do the dirty work down low. Luke hasn't done it yet. Maybe Wally, Henry, and Matt will help, but none have proven they can get to loose balls at this level. Maybe Steve "just isn't anything special" but with Duane, Luke, and hopefully Henry providing offense, we don't need special, we need someone who will go and get the damn ball.

[NavinRJohnson]

Maybe Steve "just isn't anything special" but with Duane, Luke, and hopefully Henry providing offense, we don't need special, we need someone who will go and get the damn ball.

Then why is he leaving? Nobody can seem to answer that question, because of course nobody knows, yet some are more than happy to assume that Wojo either ran him off or didn't do enough to keep him, even though base that opinion largely on the (in my mind and many others) faulty premis that he was going to be a significant contributor next year.

[jsglow]

Really? Why did he leave (I'll need specifics)?

80 minutes between the 4 and 5 positions.  And this assumes that Henry plays zero at the #3.

30 minutes is a huge amount of time for a big man and a Frosh so let's peg Luke and Henry at a combined 55.  Fair?

So unless Heldt takes Steve's minutes those still need to be filled by a quality D1 6'7" player if we're going to have any chance to improve.  Right now I don't see that on the roster.

So sure.  Perhaps that's a role Steve didn't want and he decided to leave simply because of that.  So I guess we need somebody who values that opportunity and it's Wojo's job to find that guy.  Thanks for the conversation.

[Galway Eagle]

80 minutes between the 4 and 5 positions.  And this assumes that Henry plays zero at the #3.

30 minutes is a huge amount of time for a big man and a Frosh so let's peg Luke and Henry at a combined 55.  Fair?

So unless Heldt takes Steve's minutes those still need to be filled by a quality D1 6'7" player if we're going to have any chance to improve.  Right now I don't see that on the roster.

So sure.  Perhaps that's a role Steve didn't want and he decided to leave simply because of that.  So I guess we need somebody who values that opportunity and it's Wojo's job to find that guy.  Thanks for the conversation.

Probably 10 to Heldt as well

[jsglow]

Probably 10 to Heldt as well

I'd guess that's about right.  And if Henry sees even 5 minutes at the #3 there are 20 minutes of high D-1 minutes at the #4 that are immediately available.  And there's not a single spare part on the shelf except to give Matt a bigger role.  Before yesterday I thought we had enough to credibly go to war.  I don't think that anymore absent another eligible player signing.

[brewcity77]

Then why is he leaving? Nobody can seem to answer that question, because of course nobody knows, yet some are more than happy to assume that Wojo either ran him off or didn't do enough to keep him, even though base that opinion largely on the (in my mind and many others) faulty premis that he was going to be a significant contributor next year.

Haven't talked to him so I can't say. The move is pretty surprising even for some people normally close to the program. Maybe Wojo ran him off, saying he would recruit over him this offseason. Maybe Steve didn't think he would have a major role. I don't know.

What I do know is we desperately need a rebounder and the only guy slated to be on the roster that has proven he can do that (though admittedly inconsistently) was Steve Taylor. It's not panic time, I'm not overly worried, but I do feel this is a need that has to be addressed if we want to compete for a bid next year. My sincere hope is that Steve is leaving because he had the sense he wasn't going to be that guy and the staff already has identified who that guy will be. If so, no worries. But if we go into next season without anyone who can hit the glass hard and end up with similar results, that's a concern.