what kind of result this year gets wojo canned?

[Galway Eagle]

I do not see Wojo getting canned any time soon. Woj has Broeker in his back pocket.

but with that said, we need to talk about the facts. 107–72 (.598) overall and 43–48 (.473) in conference with 0 tourney wins in 6.5 years is baffling. Woj has signed multiple top 25 classes (247), and in total inked 10 top 100 prospects (247) to date. Something just is not translating to the court.

as a top 10 spending CBB program in the country - you would expect more results this far into the wojo era

If you take out that first season of trash the numbers jump considerably. Not saying the results are to our expectations but without that season he's 94-51 (.65) and 39-34 (.53) in the last 5yrs. Any program firing a coach with 5yrs of those numbers would come off as the fools in the PR battle.

Again I'm disappointed to, I'm upset we lost the Depaul game in 2018 that likely kept us out of the tournament and that RPI was the factor not NET that let Providence in over us. I'm upset that in 2016 we lost the Belmont and/or Depaul games that at least kept us out of the NIT and out of being on the bubble for a bid. Life is a game of inches and those two years we came up a couple short being the difference between singing his praises and forgetting the first year vs people wanting him gone.

[WarriorPride68]

Interesting. Any quick and easy way of getting his record against teams that made the NCAA in that year?

49 of Wojo 107 total wins have come vs these non-conference teams who missed the tournament (in order):

Tennessee-Martin
NJIT
Georgia Tech (13-19, no tourney)
Tennessee (16-17, no tourney)
ASU (18-16, no tourney)
Alabama A&M
North Dakota
Morgan State
IUPUI
LSU (19-14, no tourney)
ASU (15-17, no tourney)
Jackson State
Grambling
Maine
San Jose State
Chicago State
Presbyterian
Howard
IUPUI
Houston Baptist
Western Carolina
Georgia (19-15, no tourney)
Fresno State
Saint Francis (PA)
Southern Illinois-Edwardsville
Mount St Marys
VCU (18-15, no tourney)
LSU (18-15, no tourney)
Eastern Illinois
Chicago State
Vermont
Wisconsin (15-18, no tourney)
Northern Illinois
American
Maryland Baltimore County
Bethune-Cookman
Presbyterian
Charleston Southern
UTEP
North Dakota
Buffalo
Southern
Loyola (MD)
Robert Morris
Davidson
Jacksonville
Grambling
North Dakota State
Central Arkansas

add in 8 more wins for Wojo vs inept Depaul (until this year) and that grows to 57 of his total 107 wins at Marquette

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

Seriously?

[WarriorPride68]

Interesting. Any quick and easy way of getting his record against teams that made the NCAA in that year?

Wisconsin 2015/2016
Vanderbilt 2016/17
Louisville 2018/2019
KSU 2018/2019
Wisconsin 2018/19

^tourney teams Wojo has beat in NC

could add three more to that list this year with potentially Purdue, USC, KSU

[SaveOD238]

Wisconsin 2015/2016
Vanderbilt 2016/17
Louisville 2018/2019
KSU 2018/2019
Wisconsin 2018/19

^tourney teams Wojo has beat in NC

could add three more to that list this year with potentially Purdue, USC, KSU

I don't think USC (maybe) or KSU are tournament teams.  But NDSU has a good shot to be one, as does Davidson.

[BM1090]

I don't think USC (maybe) or KSU are tournament teams.  But NDSU has a good shot to be one, as does Davidson.

USC has a solid shot. Little to no chance for KSU.

[Goose]

Cheeks

I am not passing the buck, but I have always believed the investment in the program should be matched with on court success. If MU has a very large basketball budget, which I believe they do, they need to find a way to have that translate into winning. I have said a million times, if they are happy with current status of program, cut the budget and hire Wardle.

I would hope MU has smart people involved with managing the program and have access to great outside help. That is who should determine what is the best path for the program. But, I can say, just throwing money around is NOT getting the job done. If they want to be elite, and continue the big budget, they should get a savvy group together and figure out how to do it.

I know many on here will jump in and say Rivers is in that group and who is better qualified than Doc. He is extremely qualified, but busy with other tasks and pretty far removed from even his kids playing college ball. They need to get a non biased group and figure out best path moving forward. Currently, their plan is a failure, IMO.

[brewcity77]

WarriorPride

IMO, what makes his record worse is the number of wins against teams that have no chance to beat us. He has to have 40-50% of his wins against a cupcake NC schedule.

In the first 5 years, he has 31 cupcake wins out of 97 total (discounting quality buys like Vermont & Buffalo), or 32.0% of his wins. I'm not including this year because we haven't played conference games.

For comparison, Buzz had 40 cupcake wins out of 139 total, or 28.9%. I'm not sure 3.1% is a statistically significant difference. Both about the same.

[Cheeks]

49 of Wojo 107 total wins have come vs these non-conference teams who missed the tournament (in order):

Tennessee-Martin
NJIT
Georgia Tech (13-19, no tourney)
Tennessee (16-17, no tourney)
ASU (18-16, no tourney)
Alabama A&M
North Dakota
Morgan State
IUPUI
LSU (19-14, no tourney)
ASU (15-17, no tourney)
Jackson State
Grambling
Maine
San Jose State
Chicago State
Presbyterian
Howard
IUPUI
Houston Baptist
Western Carolina
Georgia (19-15, no tourney)
Fresno State
Saint Francis (PA)
Southern Illinois-Edwardsville
Mount St Marys
VCU (18-15, no tourney)
LSU (18-15, no tourney)
Eastern Illinois
Chicago State
Vermont
Wisconsin (15-18, no tourney)
Northern Illinois
American
Maryland Baltimore County
Bethune-Cookman
Presbyterian
Charleston Southern
UTEP
North Dakota
Buffalo
Southern
Loyola (MD)
Robert Morris
Davidson
Jacksonville
Grambling
North Dakota State
Central Arkansas

add in 8 more wins for Wojo vs inept Depaul (until this year) and that grows to 57 of his total 107 wins at Marquette

Now do this for Buzz, Crean, KO, Majerus.....you're going to get the same results.

[Cheeks]

Cheeks

I am not passing the buck, but I have always believed the investment in the program should be matched with on court success. If MU has a very large basketball budget, which I believe they do, they need to find a way to have that translate into winning. I have said a million times, if they are happy with current status of program, cut the budget and hire Wardle.

I would hope MU has smart people involved with managing the program and have access to great outside help. That is who should determine what is the best path for the program. But, I can say, just throwing money around is NOT getting the job done. If they want to be elite, and continue the big budget, they should get a savvy group together and figure out how to do it.

I know many on here will jump in and say Rivers is in that group and who is better qualified than Doc. He is extremely qualified, but busy with other tasks and pretty far removed from even his kids playing college ball. They need to get a non biased group and figure out best path moving forward. Currently, their plan is a failure, IMO.

OK, but this seems very squishy.  Who are you going to get that is going to match your desired outcome?  And why are they coming to Marquette?  In my opinion, lots of wishing in these threads and no tangible, realistic solutions.  Just my opinion.  I would disagree with your last statement as well.  A failure would mean people aren't coming to games, we are failing on the court, no post season appearances, players committing felonies, etc.  Very subjective.

[WarriorPride68]

In the first 5 years, he has 31 cupcake wins out of 97 total (discounting quality buys like Vermont & Buffalo), or 32.0% of his wins. I'm not including this year because we haven't played conference games.

For comparison, Buzz had 40 cupcake wins out of 139 total, or 28.9%. I'm not sure 3.1% is a statistically significant difference. Both about the same.

Buzz won 67% of games at MU and won tournament games in 4 of 6 seasons, with two sweet 16's and elite 8

[Cheeks]

Buzz won 67% of games at MU and won tournament games in 4 of 6 seasons, with two sweet 16's and elite 8

Yup and did some other things too....he also LEFT MU...he also LEFT New Orleans...he also LEFT Virginia Tech....and that's what he does.   Al is dead.  Rick is dead.  Buzz is a nomad among other things.

[WarriorPride68]

Yup and did some other things too....he also LEFT MU...he also LEFT New Orleans...he also LEFT Virginia Tech....and that's what he does.   Al is dead.  Rick is dead.  Buzz is a nomad among other things.

true. and let the record show i hope Wojo sticks around. he can clearly recruit. just need to start adding some tallies to his tournament record on the W side

[79Warrior]

Yup and did some other things too....he also LEFT MU...he also LEFT New Orleans...he also LEFT Virginia Tech....and that's what he does.   Al is dead.  Rick is dead.  Buzz is a nomad among other things.

In all fairness, college coaches leave all the time. He is by no means an anomaly. It is VERY rare to find a D-1 coach who stays at the same place for a long time. Guys like K, Boheim etc are the exception, not the rule.

[muguru]

OK, but this seems very squishy.  Who are you going to get that is going to match your desired outcome?  And why are they coming to Marquette?  In my opinion, lots of wishing in these threads and no tangible, realistic solutions.  Just my opinion.  I would disagree with your last statement as well.  A failure would mean people aren't coming to games, we are failing on the court, no post season appearances, players committing felonies, etc.  Very subjective.

You do realize that this past offseason I believe, I think it was CBS sports asked CURRENT coaches assts etc about the best jobs in the country and MU was in the top 10..Whether you think so or not, PLENTY of Coaches would take the MU job, and yes, I'd wager large sums of money even some sitting power conference coaches would.

Did you forget Rick Barnes was interested when they hired Buzz??

[79Warrior]

79Warrior

I believe that MU basketball has been such a cash cow for nearly 50 years that is taken as a given by the school. The world is changing and the number of fans that remember the glory days are fading quickly. IMO, if MU wants to be elite, they need to make a full court press and make it happen.

For those worried about losing current players or recruits if a change is made, that is part of big time sports. If Wojo is not the guy, which I now firmly believe, than MU needs to move on, regardless of incoming recruiting class. For the record, the incoming class is a nice one, especially if it was pairing up with a great core of returning players, but it is not the Fab Five.

Goose,

Agree, basketball is a cash cow. It supports the Athletic department. We are in the best basketball conference possible for Marquette. The University provides tremendous support for the program. I am a product of the great MU basketball years. I have come to realize Al was lightening in a bottle. MU will always have a competitive program and enjoy broad support from the University and fans alike. We will have occasional great runs like Crean and Buzz had.

Everyone on this board wants MU to do well. Marquette will always have certain obstacles that are not easy to overcome. Money is not one of them. The school was willing to pay Shaka and in the end he backed out (I am not saying he was the answer, only using him as an example). We can blame the wife etc, but there just are other factors that come into play.

 

[Cheeks]

In all fairness, college coaches leave all the time. He is by no means an anomaly. It is VERY rare to find a D-1 coach who stays at the same place for a long time. Guys like K, Boheim etc are the exception, not the rule.

Yes, but not many go the route he did, he is the exception.  Quitting as a DI head coach to become an assistant....very rare.  Leaving a program to take a pay cut and go to second tier program like Va Tech....very rare.   So if we are going to talk about VERY RARE, let's also be honest about the VERY RARE actions Buzz has taken and he isn't done yet.

[brewcity77]

Buzz won 67% of games at MU and won tournament games in 4 of 6 seasons, with two sweet 16's and elite 8

Which has absolutely nothing to do with the inaccurate statement by Goose or that Buzz had a very similar percentage of buy game wins in total wins.

[Goose]

What inaccurate statement did I make?

[brewcity77]

What inaccurate statement did I make?

That 40-50% of his wins were from cupcakes. It's 32%, which is just 3 percentage points different than Buzz. I would imagine most high major coaches are around 30% (Average 6 cupcakes per year out of roughly 20 wins per year)

[Bad_Reporter]

If Alan, or one of the other stats guru’s could show the amount of games Buzz won against the amount of games Wojo has won against real opponents that would be interesting.

I would define real opponents as a team who was quad 2 or 1 throughout the year?

[Goose]

Brew

How is 49 out of 107 32%?

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

true. and let the record show i hope Wojo sticks around. he can clearly recruit. just need to start adding some tallies to his tournament record on the W side

Lol, "can clearly recruit"

He is one of the worst recruiters MU has had in it's history, going back 50 years.  Substandard, subpar, Wojo won't get you far

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

TAMU

They might want to be elite, but have little clue on to make that happen. Wanting to be something and doing it are two different things. The closet MU was to elite, post Al, was the Buzz era. They have fallen woefully short since his departure. IMO, I would rather think they are OK with current status than think they are trying to be elite. They resemble a bubble team slowly going in reverse at the moment.

You and I have had our debates/disagreements over the years, but I do respect much of what you say. One question, what makes you so confident that they want to be elite? The on court product has delivered little in over a half decade.

Because they are taking the right approach. Large investment in the program, hiring a young coach with potential who wants to be at Marquette, and allowing him to work through growing pains. I always think about Rick Majerus. He was a disaster as MU's head coach but became a first ballot hall of famer after he left. I always wonder if he had been allowed to work through his growing pains and stuck around here, would he have become our Jim Boeheim or Jim Calhoun? A coach that stayed for decades and won big year after year? Certainly possible that he needed that time away to become the hall of famer that he did but I still wonder.

Churning through coaches every couple of years because they don't immediately win big isn't a winning strategy. Every time you hire a coach it is a risk, no matter what outside people say about them. Every one and their mother wanted Shaka to be our coach. Every expert, every search firm, every average joe would have labeled that a home run hire for us. Based on his record at Texas....maybe he would have done better here but his results have been pretty comparable to Wojo's despite a better starting point down in Austin. No one would have thought Chris Beard was a great hire at the time but he just played in a national championship game at a program with no history.

That doesn't mean that Wojo has a job forever. He's allowed to work through growing pains but he's got to show improvement. Personally, I've seen improvement from Wojo as a coach every year, with the jury still being out on this year. When he took over, I expected a two year rebuild before making it back to the tournament. Since then, we've had a 10 seed, NIT, and 5 seed. A good not great run of three years. Right now we're projected to be an 8 seed (personally think they will finish better than that). It that's the reality, 10, NIT, 5, 8 is still a good 4 year run, not great. Wojo will need to rebuild next year and is off to a great start with Dawson, Oso, and Justin. I expect his next 4 year run to be great instead of good.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

If Alan, or one of the other stats guru’s could show the amount of games Buzz won against the amount of games Wojo has won against real opponents that would be interesting.

I would define real opponents as a team who was quad 2 or 1 throughout the year?

I may have missed something but...

Buzz was 16-38 against teams that finished the year in KenPom top 20.  You take out his last year, when he went 0-6, he won a third of those games.

Wojo is 2-24 against those teams.  The wins?  Nova in 2017 and Wisconsin last year.  More disturbing is that his most successful years included very few of those teams.  He went 1-2 in 2016-17 (1-1 v. Nova, 0-1 v. Michigan)  Last year he went 1-1 (1-0 v. UW, 0-1 v. Kansas)

So in his most successful seasons, he played schedules without elite teams.