Las Vegas Shooting

[naginiF]

Wow.  You are such a better, more enlightened person than those yokels.  Thank goodness you have graced us.

Sarcastic response:  judging from your response you're one of the following: a) a yokel, b) related to the esteemed Mr. Thune, c) a supporter of the Senator's position, d) in his words, able to "get small", or e) all of the above. 

Serious response:  You can be insecure and assume i'm taking the position of being "more enlightened", or you can assume i'm pointing out the extremes that dominate rural America and heavily influence who represents them.  There are certainly moderate conservatives and liberals in SD (38% at an absolute minimum), but the literal and figurative political landscape is driven by the extreme........you don't put up that message up on billboards unless you are in that extreme. 

Also, i'm 0-4 on that list.  Some of those 0's are not because of choice or belief. 

[Tugg Speedman]

FBI says no.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/isis-claims-vegas-shooting-without-any-evidence

Maybe yes now???

Sheriff Floats Possibility Las Vegas Shooter Stephen Paddock Was “RADICALIZED”
In a shocking turn of events, Clark County Sheriff Joe Lombardo is now floating the possibility that the Las Vegas gunman, Stephen Paddock could have been radicalized. Law enforcement are currently investigating the matter.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/10/sheriff-floats-possibility-las-vegas-shooter-stephen-paddock-radicalized/

[forgetful]

Maybe yes now???

Sheriff Floats Possibility Las Vegas Shooter Stephen Paddock Was “RADICALIZED”
In a shocking turn of events, Clark County Sheriff Joe Lombardo is now floating the possibility that the Las Vegas gunman, Stephen Paddock could have been radicalized. Law enforcement are currently investigating the matter.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/10/sheriff-floats-possibility-las-vegas-shooter-stephen-paddock-radicalized/

The same news agency published pictures and names of a completely innocent man the other day to push an agenda that this was a left-wing anti-Trump activist. 

They are insanely unreliable, and unapologetically alt-right media. 

[buckchuckler]

Sarcastic response:  judging from your response you're one of the following: a) a yokel, b) related to the esteemed Mr. Thune, c) a supporter of the Senator's position, d) in his words, able to "get small", or e) all of the above. 

Serious response:  You can be insecure and assume i'm taking the position of being "more enlightened", or you can assume i'm pointing out the extremes that dominate rural America and heavily influence who represents them.  There are certainly moderate conservatives and liberals in SD (38% at an absolute minimum), but the literal and figurative political landscape is driven by the extreme........you don't put up that message up on billboards unless you are in that extreme. 

Also, i'm 0-4 on that list.  Some of those 0's are not because of choice or belief.

No( maybe?), no, no, too fat, no.  What the senator said is idiotic on every level.  I more took exception with your "I'm smarter than everyone in rural America because my beliefs are better" implication.

Ok you were pointing out extremes that exist in other locations by playing the role a stereotypical faux intellectual who thinks he is better than those with lesser beliefs or those who are "less educated"( because thats what you mean by rural right?  Hicks, hillbillies, yokels and the like, right? )Sorry, I missed that nuance in your post.

[Benny B]

"He was a sick man, a demented man with a lot of problems, I guess, and we are looking into him very, very seriously," Trump said. "We are dealing with a very, very sick individual."

Serious question: Is a mass murder prima facie evidence that the perpetrator suffers from a defined mental condition?  We use this word "sick" to describe someone's state of mind when something like this happens, but what does that mean?  Does a severe lack of conformity signal mental illness and if so, where do you draw the line?   Can someone who murders only one person automatically be considered "sick?"  Was Stalin or Hirohito sick?  Was Truman?  What about Lorena Bobbitt?   Dylan and Eric were troubled and bullied, were they also sick?

We all get angry, and we all react to anger differently.  Some bottle it up, some punch pillows, some yell and scream, some kick puppies, and some grab a gun.  How can one logically look at the 1500+ mass shootings that have taken place in this country since Sandy Hook and not have the thought cross his/her mind that this might simply be part of the human condition for some people?

I think it's actually more dangerous to immediately chalk these events up to mental illness and dismiss the fact that a perfectly rational person (by medical definition, not by observation or relative to the majority) may be capable of committing a heinous crime with the right motivation.  That's not to say we don't treat the mentally ill to the best of our capability, we absolutely should.  But as we search for answers in the aftermath of these shootings, I think if we grossly oversimplify and allow prevention efforts to focus primarily on those that may be diagnosable with a medical condition, we might miss the perfectly "normal" multimillionaire carrying suitcases full of automatic weapons into a high rise hotel.

(Also not to say that Paddock was perfectly sane... but other than the act itself, nothing that's been revealed about him thus far seems to fit the mold of "psychotic killer.")

[rocket surgeon]

ok, here's an issue the left can relate to-abortion.  anything short of partial birth abortion or even trying to outlaw it, the left freaks out-they want to make decisions about what a woman does to her body...sound familiar?

[forgetful]

ok, here's an issue the left can relate to-abortion.  anything short of partial birth abortion or even trying to outlaw it, the left freaks out-they want to make decisions about what a woman does to her body...sound familiar?

Not sure what you are trying to say here, but partial birth abortion is illegal in the US.

If you are trying to say that people on the left are against outlawing all abortion, and this equates to discussions of gun control, I'm afraid that makes no sense.  No one is asking for total banning of all guns.  They are asking for specific types of weapons to be banned...you highlight the major argument regarding abortion that supports such laws.

Partial birth abortions being illegal is a reasonable law, just like outlawing certain types of weapons that have no practical purpose.  In both cases, the majority of americans are in favor of such laws.  In both cases, the restrictions would be very specific, and due to that most court precedents would support the laws being constitutional.

[MU82]

We get it, Smuggles. If Paddock somehow is proven to have been "radicalized," it will be your wettest dream since Nov. 8!

You need Paddock to be more than just another run-of-the-mill white, male arsehole. After all, it's got to be tough on a hatemonger like you that so many white, male arseholes keep committing terrorist acts.

A bonus: It also would give your hero a platform to spew more hate.

It's OK, Smuggles, you can admit that's why you're obsessed with this part of the story (or at least your hoped-for part of the story). You're rooting for it, so let's hear your cheer:

Radicalized! Radicalized! I need this guy to be Radicalized!

[Jockey]

Maybe yes now???

Sheriff Floats Possibility Las Vegas Shooter Stephen Paddock Was “RADICALIZED”
In a shocking turn of events, Clark County Sheriff Joe Lombardo is now floating the possibility that the Las Vegas gunman, Stephen Paddock could have been radicalized. Law enforcement are currently investigating the matter.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/10/sheriff-floats-possibility-las-vegas-shooter-stephen-paddock-radicalized/

Just stop it.  The sheriff never mentioned isis.

Many Web trolls have however.

[Jockey]

I guess what really bothers politicians on the right is the noise these guns make. Heck, sooner or later someone is gonna notice how many people are shot every day.

Luckily, they are right on the case. They will vote to legalize silencers cuz  - and they actually said this - they want to protect the ears of hunters. No word, however, if they want to protect lives of innocent American citizens. A date has not been set for the vote because mass shootings keep interfering with their plans.

Just imagine how many more hundreds of people would have been shot in Vegas if the murderer had been equipped with silencers. Republicans are working hard to make them available for the next nut that comes along.

[Tugg Speedman]

We get it, Smuggles. If Paddock somehow is proven to have been "radicalized," it will be your wettest dream since Nov. 8!

You need Paddock to be more than just another run-of-the-mill white, male arsehole. After all, it's got to be tough on a hatemonger like you that so many white, male arseholes keep committing terrorist acts.

A bonus: It also would give your hero a platform to spew more hate.

It's OK, Smuggles, you can admit that's why you're obsessed with this part of the story (or at least your hoped-for part of the story). You're rooting for it, so let's hear your cheer:

Radicalized! Radicalized! I need this guy to be Radicalized!

Again, what is more important to you than anything else is you hold the moral high ground in your mind.  That way you can scream that anyone that disagrees with you is a hatemonger (which you just called me) and devoid yourself of any rational discussion and just bludgeon opposing views into submission with your point of view.  Becuase yours is the superior view and everyone that disagrees with your is a lower form of human life.

I started another thread that scoop is a microcosm of the US where a bunch of closed minded people screams at each as they think the way to compromise is to yell louder than the competition.

You can stop proving this point anytime you want.

[GGGG]

Again, what is more important to you than anything else is you hold the moral high ground in your mind.  That way you can scream that anyone that disagrees with is a hatemonger (which you just called me) and devoid yourself of any rational discussion and just bludgeon everyone that disagrees with you into submission with your point of view.

This from the guy who posts about a dozen articles a day...

[Tugg Speedman]

This from the guy who posts about a dozen articles a day...

You're smart enough to know that I post stories/links to spur discussion and most of the time present them without comment.  But since your politics don't agree with mine, bludgeon me as will thinking outscreaming me will win the day.

(Again, I reformed myself two days ago and will stop screaming back.  I welcome you to do the same.)

[GGGG]

You're smart enough to know that I post stories/links to spur discussion and most of the time present them without comment.  But since your politics don't agree with mine, bludgeon me as will thinking outscreaming me will win the day.

(Again, I reformed myself two days ago and will stop screaming back.  I welcome you to do the same.)

Actually you are giving me way too much credit.  I don't read most of your posts.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

You're smart enough to know that I post stories/links to spur discussion and most of the time present them without comment.  But since your politics don't agree with mine, bludgeon me as will thinking outscreaming me will win the day.

(Again, I reformed myself two days ago and will stop screaming back.  I welcome you to do the same.)

The problem is when you present a link without comment, that gives the impression you are presenting it as fact.  It would actually be helpful if you stated your opinions of the links.

[jficke13]

We were doing so well following the Dr. Wolfe rule. Pull back on the ad hominem, eh?

[B. McBannerson]

We were doing so well following the Dr. Wolfe rule. Pull back on the ad hominem, eh?

Unfortunately some just can't help themselves.  Personal attacks, extremely unfortunate.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

As someone who is not a gun person, I had never heard of bump stocks until this atrocity.

They are legal and easily affordable yet easily turn semi-automatic weapons into automatic weapons, which are illegal.

It's insanity. How does this make any sense? What am I missing here?

[B. McBannerson]

As someone who is not a gun person, I had never heard of bump stocks until this atrocity.

They are legal and easily affordable yet easily turn semi-automatic weapons into automatic weapons, which are illegal.

It's insanity. How does this make any sense? What am I missing here?

One perspective of what it is and why used.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/10/foghorn/bumpfire-stock-exist/

[Vander Blue Man Group]

One perspective of what it is and why used.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/10/foghorn/bumpfire-stock-exist/

They should be illegal, full stop. 

[JWags85]

One perspective of what it is and why used.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/10/foghorn/bumpfire-stock-exist/

So their legality and what its used for basically boils down to "its fun and exciting!".  I'm with VBMG.  Thats not a civil liberty issue, its common sense.  I'm almost embarrassed that I went to a website called "Truth About Guns" expecting to see a cogent explanation in defense of bump stocks.

[naginiF]

No( maybe?), no, no, too fat, no.  What the senator said is idiotic on every level.  I more took exception with your "I'm smarter than everyone in rural America because my beliefs are better" implication.

Ok you were pointing out extremes by playing the role a stereotypical faux intellectual who thinks he is better than those with lesser beliefs.  Sorry, I missed that nuance in your post.

I'm not going to get into sound bite throwing contest with you - i clearly hit a nerve when you jump to throw away talk radio terms like 'faux intellectual'. 

i will say that a lot of our politicians are kept in power by the extremes and the $ those extremes throw at them (i really didn't think this was a topic that was up for debate).  I don't think it's anything but obvious that in SD, the state that elected the senator whose quote started this, the extreme that keeps mr thune in office is the conservative extreme.  In a state like MA there is a different extreme influencing their state reps.

In no way did i ever imply "i'm smarter than everyone in rural america because my beliefs are better" that is a HUGE assumption on your part, presumably because of my 0-4 position on fur, meat, god and guns......

Fur:  I've never met anyone that is 'pro' fur.  on this one you are correct, i probably would assume a position of intellectual/moral superiority in that debate.  If there is an argument for why we should wear fur, please start a new thread and you can call me 'faux intellectual' as you enlighten me on the benefits of fur. 

Meat: I literally can't eat most mammals....i'm allergic.  I don't hold it against people who do enjoy it, i just don't have a choice.

God and Guns:  The extremists are wrong, the vast majority of us just have a different opinions.  As long as you don't push your gun or your god into anyone else's face there is no issue.  Differing points of view does not a position of intellectual superiority make.

If someone were to argue that the level of gun violence in the US isn't completely unacceptable and/or that one part of the solution to this extremely complicated issue is not addressing who can buy firearms and the types of firearms they can buy, then i'm going to claim the intellectual and moral high ground on that person. 

 

[MU82]

Again, what is more important to you than anything else is you hold the moral high ground in your mind.  That way you can scream that anyone that disagrees with you is a hatemonger (which you just called me) and devoid yourself of any rational discussion and just bludgeon opposing views into submission with your point of view.  Becuase yours is the superior view and everyone that disagrees with your is a lower form of human life.

I started another thread that scoop is a microcosm of the US where a bunch of closed minded people screams at each as they think the way to compromise is to yell louder than the competition.

Pot, meet kettle.

You can stop proving this point anytime you want.

You prove your own point several times per day.

I don't know why you won't just admit that you hope ISIS somehow got to this guy, and that's why you keep bringing it up. You need it!

[Lennys Tap]

We all get angry, and we all react to anger differently.  Some bottle it up, some punch pillows, some yell and scream, some kick puppies, and some grab a gun.  How can one logically look at the 1500+ mass shootings that have taken place in this country since Sandy Hook and not have the thought cross his/her mind that this might simply be part of the human condition for some people?

I think it's actually more dangerous to immediately chalk these events up to mental illness and dismiss the fact that a perfectly rational person (by medical definition, not by observation or relative to the majority) may be capable of committing a heinous crime with the right motivation.  That's not to say we don't treat the mentally ill to the best of our capability, we absolutely should.  But as we search for answers in the aftermath of these shootings, I think if we grossly oversimplify and allow prevention efforts to focus primarily on those that may be diagnosable with a medical condition, we might miss the perfectly "normal" multimillionaire carrying suitcases full of automatic weapons into a high rise hotel.

(Also not to say that Paddock was perfectly sane... but other than the act itself, nothing that's been revealed about him thus far seems to fit the mold of "psychotic killer.")

And sometimes when people get angry they say vicious, hateful and untrue things about their fellow scoopers. This thread is full of them. When does that anger go so deep that it morphs into "sickness"? When a punch is thrown? When a shot (or shots) are fired? It's a lot more palatable to look at all of these killers as deranged rather than ultra motivated angry guys - that hits a little too close to home.

[MU82]

And sometimes when people get angry they say vicious, hateful and untrue things about their fellow scoopers. This thread is full of them. When does that anger go so deep that it morphs into "sickness"? When a punch is thrown? When a shot (or shots) are fired? It's a lot more palatable to look at all of these killers as deranged rather than ultra motivated angry guys - that hits a little too close to home.

Right here is a pretty good argument against allowing guns in bars. In the last few years, NC and many other states have passed laws saying guns in bars are just peachy-keen.

You can be just a couple of guys having a "friendly debate." When one of you pisses the other off, a punch is thrown ... and, hey, I've got a gun handy! And what good is a gun if you don't use it?

That sounds snarky, but I am serious about this point. Guns in bars. Yet another NRA-sponsored great idea passed by the legislators they have on puppet strings. It's all about freedom!

But yes, Lenny, I agree with your overall point.

I get angry at myself that I let myself get angered by a couple of posters - and it is only a couple, and everybody here knows who they are: one who openly brags about his smugness, and the other who was banned a year ago but keeps rising from the ashes.

I should be better than that - "superior," as Smuggles keeps saying, because it makes him feel superior to keep accusing others of feeling superior - but I do admit to my weakness. I'll try to do better.