Question about Crean

[jtsanto]

I know I might get ripped for looking at the past, but I had a debate the other night in South Bend with an IU fan. He said that Crean will win them a Nation title. I said that I am not so sure about that. My feelings are that Crean did a great job of putting us on the map, but that he was not a good big game coach. I know he took us to the Final Four, but I think that was more Wade than Crean. So my true question is does anyone else feel that Crean took us as far as he could, and that he is not a good big game coach?

[lurch91]

I think Crean took us as far as HE thought he could.  Crean had problem recruiting big men to Marquette, but I think Crean felt that was a limitation of Marquette and not him.

Whether or not he can win a National Title at IU, we wont know for another few years as it will take him that long to get the IU program back up and running.

Crean really helped put the Deane days behind us at Marquette, but I'm not sold that he's all that the IU fans think he is.

[NavinRJohnson]

I do believe he took MU as far as HE could - and perhaps that is as far as MU can go period. Very small sample, but seeing how Buzz has recruited thus far, I have my doubts. I think Crean is a great builder and marketeer, at IU we will most assuredly find out if he is a good finisher. I believe the jury is very much still out on that.

One thing is for sure, 5 NCAA tournament wins in 9 years is not going to cut it at IU. Even given the present state of the program he inherited, I'm not convinced 5 wins in 5 years will get it done. He had a ton of well deserved good will to fall back on here - what he accomplished getting MU back to the FF, Big East, McGuire Center. He was integral to all of those things and received a lot of much deserved slack as a result. The money, the conference, the facilities, etc...all of those things were already in place when he arrived at IU, so his success or failure will come down to one thing, and one thing only - winning, particularly in March.

There are no excuses and nothing to hold him back. I think a National Championship is possible for him there, and while I don't think he necessarily has to win one, he damn well better have them in a position to compete for win within the next 3-4 years, or I think things are going to become rather unpleasant.

Will he get it done? I honestly don't know.

[mosarsour]

I think Crean took us as far as HE thought he could.  Crean had problem recruiting big men to Marquette, but I think Crean felt that was a limitation of Marquette and not him.

Whether or not he can win a National Title at IU, we wont know for another few years as it will take him that long to get the IU program back up and running.

Crean really helped put the Deane days behind us at Marquette, but I'm not sold that he's all that the IU fans think he is.

Those Deane years weren't THAT bad. We always managed to put together a competitive roster under Coach Deane...Wardle, Hutchins, Cliff, Jon Harris, Nnamaka, Lovette, Henry, Barone, and my personal favorite player of that era, John Polonowski.

[MR.HAYWARD]

This is IU's problem as I see it.  First of all, I hate Crean hated the man since about his 2nd or 3rd year at MU the more I got to see what he was all about.  Just to put that on the table.  Actually, hated him even more for his coaching than his peronality, I thought and still think he is an absolutely horrible basketball coach.  Works real hard but is absolutely an idiot when it comes to basketball.  I truly mean that.    

Anyway this is Crean's and Indiana's problem as I see it.  First of all as much as I dislike the man and think he is a poor coach he is really great at PR and making sure things are done within the confines of the NCAA.  They will be a clean hard working program.  Right now that is exactly what IU needs.  They hired an infinitely better coach 3 yeras ago and that is exactly what they did not need.  Crean is the old analogy of hard work can get you a long way despite your lack of talent.

Problem.... 3 years from now is there are other programs in the B10 and Nation that have hard working coaches that have great coaching ability.  This could be alleviated by Crean but he will not listen to anyone else.  How many times did MU fans pine for a Tex Winter type sage for Crean.  He hired them in Panaggio and Sichting, yet those guys after being ignore and mistreated hit the door at the first opportunity.  At the ND game Dale Layer(a D1 head coach for 20+ years) diagrammed a play during a time out as Buzz watched.  That would never never happen under Crean.  Part of building a great organization is assessing your areas of weakness and bringing in help in those areas.  Crean wont do that he only wants minions and that really hurts him.  He probably realizes this but cannot help himself.  We all know what his massive turnover did to his recruitng and massive player turnover has done to always having a young rebuilding team.  How many starters transferred?, that is almost unheard of but was commonplace at MU.    

Nontheless, in 3-4 year timeframe IU will be respectable again.  But look at his recruiting.  Is it any better than Purdues's, MSu's, OSU's, UI's, and IMO those 4 guys are significantly superior coaches than Crean.  So what does that get IU in 3-4 years a top 1/3 type Big Ten team?  And I think that is about what he will do at IU.  Another thing to consider on the national stage is what type of talent is the Big Ten getting relative to the Big East, ACC, PAc 10 and SEC, and B12.  Apart from OSU and MSU who else and when has a Big Ten teamed signed a McDonald's AA.  How many players are going to the NBA from Big Ten schools?  Lets face it the Big Ten is a big slow white boy conference of mostly farm boys.  Same reason a team like Wisconsin that has dominated the Big Ten over the last 4-5 years is an early round knockout every NCAA.  Crean must recruit to the level of an MSU or an OSU. Unless he gets their type of talent they cannot compete on the national stage.  His roster is full at IU for the next 3-4 years unless he runs people off like he did at MU and he has no McDonald's AA commits that I am aware of.  A collection of top 50-100 types will get you in the top 25 but Duke, UConn, UNC, UCLA, etc start 3-4-5 McDonalds' AA's.  

So at the end of the day in 4-5-6-7 years if he is having top 4-5 Big Ten Finishes and is a first second or even third round knockout in the NCAA, will IU fans grow restless?  This is a fanbase that is already calling for numerous Big Ten and National Championships under Crean.  How long are they willing to wait?.  I see real disappointment setting in around year 5-6.  Peter's principle at work coupled with the fact that national title winning type talent is not very interested in playing in the Big Ten.  

On a side not how many times over the years did MU hold the ball under Crean for the last shot and end up not even getting a shot off?  The percentage was disturbing.  The Northwestern game last night I watched the last minute or two was vintage Crean.  His mania really rattles his players,  His players play nervous.  Will never forget the MU/Louisville game where Dameon MAson said Crean changed the play 3 times between the end of the timeout and the inbounds and the palce was going crazy no one could hear or knew what to do.  Vintage Crean panicked coach = panicked players.  Remember Dameon Mason 2 year starter top 30 recruit?...transferred.

[Hards Alumni]

I completely agree with everything Hayward said.

spot on dude.

good recruiter, average game coach, amazing PR guy.

In summary, he will rebuild IU basketball to a respectable team and then will get fired for not winning enough when it is back on track.

In the end, IU will use him, and he will feel used when they can him.

[rocky_warrior]

My feelings are that Crean did a great job of putting us on the map, but that he was not a good big game coach.

Funny, I mostly agree with you, except I think he (usually) thrived in the big games.  It was the games against equal or mediocre coaching/talent that he seemed to lose too often.  He obviously won a lot of those, but IMO he lost too many.

[mu-rara]

Funny, I mostly agree with you, except I think he (usually) thrived in the big games.  It was the games against equal or mediocre coaching/talent that he seemed to lose too often.  He obviously won a lot of those, but IMO he lost too many.

Crean won his fair share of "big" games.  He usually had a good plan for big games.  If the opposing coach adjusted appropiately, Crean would fizzle.  If the other coach was a rockhead,  MU won.  ( I almost said we).

[lurch91]

Wardle, Hutchins, Cliff, Jon Harris, Nnamaka, Lovette, Henry, Barone, and my personal favorite player of that era, John Polonowski.

All fine student athletes, but what did Deane net us?  A NIT Finals Runner-up with KO's players?  A commitment that Marquette could never regain national relavance or prominence? 

[Shack]

Agree 100% with Hayward. 

Except Dameon Mason sucked at LSU as well, so it appears he was a very overrated player to begin with.   Wes Matthews on the other hand is a different story... highly rated rcruit that was held back under Crean and now you can see what we all expected after Crean left. 

[mosarsour]

All fine student athletes, but what did Deane net us?  A NIT Finals Runner-up with KO's players?  A commitment that Marquette could never regain national relavance or prominence? 

What did Crean net us without DWade and Robert Jackson...1 NCAA tournament win? Is it me, or do we continue to have the same debate over and over again. The point I was trying to make was that this team was still pretty successful after the KO years under Deane.

[mug644]

In summary, he will rebuild IU basketball to a respectable team and then will get fired for not winning enough when it is back on track.

In the end, IU will use him, and he will feel used when they can him.

I've heard that a few times, that IU will fire Crean. I don't see that happening. I think that Crean realized that he might've reached his limit here, and he was sensing that there were more and more voices saying that maybe he wasn't cutting it anymore. He's smart enough to know when to cut out, and he was fortunate that the IU job came up.

I'm guessing the same thing might happen at IU. Problem is that IU is/was perceived as a top-notch program, so where does he go to? Well, look at Tubby Smith. He saw the writing on the wall at Kentucky and got out, and is happy and thriving at Minnesota.

[jmayer1]

What did Crean net us without DWade and Robert Jackson...1 NCAA tournament win? Is it me, or do we continue to have the same debate over and over again. The point I was trying to make was that this team was still pretty successful after the KO years under Deane.

Crean netted MU 5 NCAA appearances with his players (Cordell was the only real significant holdover on the first NCAA team).

Deane neeted 0 NCAA appearance with his players (only got there with KO's).

[jmayer1]

Remember Dameon Mason 2 year starter top 30 recruit?...transferred.

Mason finished 71 in the final RSCI rankings for the class of 2003.  Never let facts get in the way of your arguement MR. HAYWARD.

http://www.rscihoops.com/

It's too bad Mason left as we didn't have anybody to replace him and he really flourished at LSU.

The only real significant guy that left and was really missed was ODB.

[MU B2002]

The only real significant guy that left and was really missed was ODB.

Am I remembering correctly that he ended up at UNLV?

[StillAWarrior]

Nice post Hayward.

I think this team's performance has really illustrated some of Crean's coaching deficiencies.  Granted, they're all a year older and more experienced, but this team is really playing well.  I shouldn't admit this here, because I'm sure that someone will quote this back to me in the future, but I have nowhere near the basketball knowledge or expertise as many on this board.  I never really played in school, but I watch a lot and I have coached my kids' teams a little (but probably not too well -- I retired to let better coaches teach them).  But, even I was always troubled by Crean's seeming inability to make halftime adjustments (or adjustments on the fly).  I'm not saying I knew what adjustments needed to be made, but I did notice that the team didn't seem to fix things in the second half.  I have been very happy with this year's team because they seem to come out of the locker room and play better.  Something is going on at halftime, and it's helping the team.  Also, this team is just a hell of a lot of fun to watch.  Sure, winning cures a lot of ills, but these kids are entertaining.

[HoopsMalone]

I have had similar experiences with my friends from IU.  They think he is such an amazing coach.  I will say that he is one of the best motivators in country, a great PR guy, and you can count on him to work hard.  

However, his recruiting is very overrated.  He never really had a great recruting class besides the seniors right now.  I don't know how you can pick up Amoroso, Kinsella, etc. and be considered a top recruiter.  Two of his highest rated recruits, Merrit and Mason, were busts.  Those guys were supposed to make the NBA.  Diener and Novak are Wisconsin guys who might have come to Marquette no matter who was the coach.  So basically, he had a lucky recruit in Wade, the three senior guards, and got Lazar.  (I suppose you could count Tyshawn Taylor).  I am very happy to have those players, but that is all in 9 years.  Also, he does not exactly have 5 -star recruits lining up to play for his elite program (though he has a pretty good class).  

Also, as far as games, you always knew his guys would be prepared.  However there were no games where I think that he made an in-game decision where we won because of him.  I cannot think of a substitution he made or defenseive match-up that I think won games.  

In the end, though, we all need to be thankful to Crean.  He got the University to build the Al and got us into the Big East.  We now have facilities to recruit top players which may have never happened under another coach.

Also, Crean brought a swagger to MU that has not been seen in years.  He was cocky, but we needed to develop a winning and confident attitude.

Indiana is lucky to have him, but I know that they expect too much out of him.  Hopefully he will get the talent to succeed.  I have no reason to want him to fail, just want the Indiana fans to know what they have.

[AlumKCof93]

Deane only coached at MU for 5 years, therefore he only had one season to get "his players" to the NCAA's.

The Deane years were good, until the end.  When he left, Deane won 100 games in his 5 years.  For firing him, Cords was lit up by the press.  But Cords knew the program was in a steep decline due to Deane's poor recruiting and made the move to hire Crean.  It was a great move by Cords, for Crean, and for MU.  

[jmayer1]

Am I remembering correctly that he ended up at UNLV?

Yep, would have been great to have another weapon on the final four team (though I don't think it would have made much of a difference against Kansas).  However, MU would have been much better his (and Travis') senior year if he had stayed and Travis didn't get hurt.  I highly doubt MU would have missed the tourney that year (they might not have either if Travis didn't get hurt).

http://media.nba.com/draft2005/profiles/OdarteyBlankson.html

Btw, I should note I agreed with some of Hayward's post.  I think Crean did a really good job at MU but his departure might have been perfect timing for both parties.

[Badgerhater]

I had no problem with Crean leaving because I think very few college coaches should remain at a school for more the 7-8 years.  Lots of burnout on both ends.   Change can work well for both parties involved.

[Hards Alumni]

Yep, would have been great to have another weapon on the final four team (though I don't think it would have made much of a difference against Kansas).  However, MU would have been much better his (and Travis') senior year if he had stayed and Travis didn't get hurt.  I highly doubt MU would have missed the tourney that year (they might not have either if Travis didn't get hurt).

http://media.nba.com/draft2005/profiles/OdarteyBlankson.html

Btw, I should note I agreed with some of Hayward's post.  I think Crean did a really good job at MU but his departure might have been perfect timing for both parties.

ODB was the same class as Merrit, Wade, et. al... he was a freshman in 2000.

Diener was a freshman in 2001.

[Sir Lawrence]

    Diener and Novak are Wisconsin guys who might have come to Marquette no matter who was the coach.  

Never, ever assume any kid will go to MU just because he's from Wisconsin.  Neither of those two even went to Catholic high schools, where at least some kids will get a balanced perspective of MU v Wisconsin.

[LastWarrior]

IMHO, Crean was never a good x's & o's coach and was pretty poor at game strategy.  Yes... I said this even when he was at MU.  Also, here comes the shot, I think his ego is too big to get someone on the bench that can help him with it.  That said, I do think that Crean will take IU back to competing for the big ten on an annual basis.  Anything less than that is failure with the talent in state and the tradition of IU.

[jmayer1]

ODB was the same class as Merrit, Wade, et. al... he was a freshman in 2000.

Diener was a freshman in 2001.

You're right, total brain fart.  For some reason I was thinking the year after the Final Four was TD's senior year.  What I should have said was I think MU might have made the tournament those two years if ODB was still around the first year and TD didn't get hurt the end of the second year.

[Hards Alumni]

ODB was easily my favorite player my freshman year.  When I heard he was transferring, I wondered what Crean could have done to run him out of town.

[4everwarriors]

Crean will never win a national championship at IU and the reasons for which are obvious for those who have observed the man for the past 10 years now. Hey, but at the end of the day, he's a wealthy man. All Crean, all the time.

[ErickJD08]

I agree with Hayward.  Except he forgot to throw in MN in the Big Ten mix.  I think they will be pretty solid next year.  

I am confused about the recruiting thing.  People give him alot of credit for recruiting but he recruited Wade and coincidentally had a great class after the final four run.  Mark my words, we make a final four run this year, our 2010 class will be top 5.  So I believe some of the credit of the amigo class should go to Wade's triple double against UK.  Someone mentioned that Crean had a really good recruiting class coming in next year and I would disagree.  It is good but it should be better.  All the hoopla about Crean to IU should have created good hype.  I think the 2010 class will be weak after this terrible season, I would be shocked if it were better than 2009.  Not to mention that the recruiting in state is much tougher.  Now there is ND, Baylor and Purdue in the mix.  Toss in Indiana's neighbors, Illinois, OSU, and MSU, and lets not forget that Lexington and Louisville are not that far away.  

One more note, I am a ND football fan so I am in close contact with fans from big programs that are impatient.  IUi is all about Big Ten Championships and Tourney wins.  I hate the Big Ten and posters knock it but it has alot of potential.  Illinois has a great class next year, Tubby is working it, Purdue has an up and coming coach, Izzo is Izzo, and OSU produces a solid team every four years AND Michigan is trying to get in the mix.  Indiana's road will get tougher and tougher.  He'll get his four year but then it will turn into a "what have you done for me lately?" and it could get ugly.    

[StillAWarrior]

So I believe some of the credit of the amigo class should go to Wade's triple double against UK.

And Diener's game against Holy Cross.

Not to mention that the recruiting in state is much tougher.  Now there is ND, Baylor and Purdue in the mix.

Psst...Baylor is in Texas.  Valpo maybe?  Or Butler?

[ErickJD08]

And Diener's game against Holy Cross.


Psst...Baylor is in Texas.  Valpo maybe?  Or Butler?

I am a dumbass.. I meant Butler

[bma725]

I am confused about the recruiting thing.  People give him alot of credit for recruiting but he recruited Wade and coincidentally had a great class after the final four run.  So I believe some of the credit of the amigo class should go to Wade's triple double against UK.   

Actually the first class after the final four was pretty bad: Christian, Mason, Bell, James Matthews and Marcus Jackson.  The 2nd class after the final four was also pretty bad: Kinsella, Barro, Amoroso. 

What gave him the great class in 2005 wasn't the final four, it was the fact that MU needed a lot of players and had a lot of playing time available for the upcoming season.  The only significant players coming back for the Amigo's first season were Novak, Chapman and maybe Fitz.  Beyond that there was no competition for playing time, and further MU needed a ton of players(hence the 6 recruits in that class). 

Look at Crean's successful classes, they both came when he had a lot of playing time to give, in the class of 2000 and class of 2005.  He got essentially 5 top 100 players in those two classes, and 7 highly rated players when you consider that Sanders was a top Prep School guy and Lott a JUCO AA.  In his remaining seven years, he got only 6 additional top 100 players and 2 JUCO AA. 

Right now, Buzz is in that same situation.  Yes he's got a great first class, but it's coming at a time when the program is going to experience massive turnover.  4 starting spots will be available and there's no one currently on the team that would have an advantage over a big time recruit.  Any coach in the country should be able to sell that. 

Before we go annointing Buzz as a better recruiter, let's wait and see how he does when he doesn't have a lot of PT available.  Anyone can recruit when they have a ton of playing time to give, great recruiters are able to convince top 100 players to come sit on the bench.  We won't know if Buzz can do that until we see the 2010 class and beyond.


EDITED:  Totally forgot that Kinsella was a JUCO AA, so I had to update the numbers.

[nyg]

Is Aaron Bowen a good start for 2010?

[Marquette84]

 But, even I was always troubled by Crean's seeming inability to make halftime adjustments (or adjustments on the fly).  I'm not saying I knew what adjustments needed to be made, but I did notice that the team didn't seem to fix things in the second half.  

A number of games last year involved significant comebacks/adjustments by MU.  We were down early to Seton Hall and came back and won. The comeback at ND was huge--that game was well in hand for ND, but MU came back from a deep hole and very nearly took the game.  As I recall we were down big against Stanford and came back to tie in regulation.  Down at the half @Villanova and won.   That's just last season--and there were probably a few others.

Last year's team didn't always come back and win every game--but we haven't yet played the type of teams--UL, Syracuse, UConn --that we didn't come back on.  Its hard to tell whether we are any better or worse yet.  I don't know if UL or UConn gets us down by 15 whether we'll find it as easy to come back as we did on Providence.  I think probably not. 


  

[augoman]

In the end, though, we all need to be thankful to Crean.  He got the University to build the Al and got us into the Big East.  We now have facilities to recruit top players which may have never happened under another coach.



I wonder if you've ever heard of people like Bill Cords, Dick Strong, Kevin O'Neill, Jim Janz, or Dr. Bob Pavlik?  THEY built the AL, rejuvinated the bball program, hired Crean, put us in the Big East, etc.!  Because of them, Crean was able to recruit and coach as he did.  I almost forgot Fr. Wild- without his 'nod' none of this happens.

[The Lens]

Look at Crean's successful classes, they both came when he had a lot of playing time to give, in the class of 2000 and class of 2005.  He got essentially 5 top 100 players in those two classes, and 7 highly rated players when you consider that Sanders was a top Prep School guy and Lott a JUCO AA.  In his remaining seven years, he got only 5 additional top 100 players and 1 JUCO AA. 

Right now, Buzz is in that same situation. 

BMA (per usual) hit the nail on the head.  I'm taking a wait and see approach to Buzzard's recruiting, a lot of coaches can recruit when you're selling tons O' PT. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

I'm still puzzled at the success of this team.  I thought for sure you couldn't win with just guards.   

[detroitwarrior]

The Crean haters and Crean lovers need to get in a room, hug it out and move on. Let's focus on the future and the new era of Marquette basketball. Hope and change and all that 

[mviale]

High expectations are a killer -its like the $200k consultant that promises this and that. Its all about perception.  He benefited from low expectations at MU.

[bma725]

Is Aaron Bowen a good start for 2010?

Depends on how you look at it.

You could look at it and say that since Bowen only one top 100 ranking lists him, and it's not one of the major ones, he's not going to be that good.  But if you look a bit further, that changes.  ESPN rates him at an 89 despite the fact that he was injured last summer.  If you look into the state by state rankings, he's very high on most lists.  Florida Prospects, probably the #1 source for info on Florida HS sports, lists him as a 5-Star player.   HoopScoop has him at the #8 position in the state for 2010, MiamiTropics has him at #4.  In fact, you could say that because of his injury and the fact that he didn't play AAU ball, he hasn't really been properly evaluated yet since most services don't look at HS games. 

Similarly, you can look at what other schools were involved with him.   You could look at it and say that he can't be that good since the only other school to offer him a scholarship was Jacksonville.  But on the other side of that, he was just starting to get interest from Miami, Auburn, Florida, Florida State, Virginia Tech, Kansas State when he committed.  In fact Auburn and Miami are still going after him and have offered scholarships even though he committed to MU.  So you could say Buzz and his staff got in early on a kid that is about to blow up nationally.

About the only thing we can say for certain at this point is that Bowen is the best player in one of the best programs in the state of Florida.  Wolfson has won 14 district championships and sent almost 40 players to division 1 ball, they have a coach that knows how to develop players into high D1 prospects having sent guys to Florida, Alabama and other places in the past.  Bowen is the best player on a very talented team, which says something.

For the most part though, it's too early to tell.  He's going to play more AAU ball this summer, which will give a better picture of his true abilities.   I don't know why, but I've got a gut feeling this kid is going to be very good.

[77ncaachamps]

My question about Crean is: Considering his friendship with Sampson and current position, has he exchanged some honest pleasantries with KS about how he left the IU program in such a mess?

Regarding this talk about winning a title at IU is plausible, but I don't think it'll happen. Tubby's got a good gig going at MN and has the edge over Crean (rings). Illinois is starting to be a real program again but is a bad coach hire away from being mediocre. If Izzo stays, MSU will always be MSU. OSU will be perennially strong. Michigan is a rising program and will probably prove to be IU's main rival in the future as long as Beilein is there. Purdue will be going head-to-head for in-state recruits.

[tower912]

If Crean was as awful as the haters here say, we would have gone the way of DePaul.   We were not good when he arrived.   It could have gone either way.   The coach he replaced was trying to sell the idea that MU should be content with NIT appearances with the occasional NCAA foray.    If Crean had been the wrong hire for the time, if he couldn't recruit and promote the hell out of the program and coach a little, we would be where SJU/DePaul/Seton Hall are.    Of course he had his flaws.   Who doesn't?    I had issues with his in game adjustments and inability to land quality bigs.   But look 90 miles south on 94 and contemplate how easy it would be for us to end up like them.   

[StillAWarrior]

A number of games last year involved significant comebacks/adjustments by MU.  We were down early to Seton Hall and came back and won. The comeback at ND was huge--that game was well in hand for ND, but MU came back from a deep hole and very nearly took the game.  As I recall we were down big against Stanford and came back to tie in regulation.  Down at the half @Villanova and won.   That's just last season--and there were probably a few others.

Last year's team didn't always come back and win every game--but we haven't yet played the type of teams--UL, Syracuse, UConn --that we didn't come back on.  Its hard to tell whether we are any better or worse yet.  I don't know if UL or UConn gets us down by 15 whether we'll find it as easy to come back as we did on Providence.  I think probably not.

I shouldn't have used the word "always."  I should have said often instead.  Of the games you mentioned, I'd say that Villanova is your best example.  They played better after the half, caught up and took the lead.  In the ND game, we trailed by 10 at the half, and ND maintained pretty much the same margin until about 3:30 left, then Marquette made some stops and made a run.  I don't really see that as evidence of good halftime adjustments.  Maybe a good timeout, but not halftime.  Seton Hall is a bit of a wash.  We were down 11 early, but already had it to 7 at the half and continued.  Maybe there were halftime adjustments, maybe not, I don't recall.  I think your recollection of the Stanford game is a little off.  We were never down big -- their largest lead was only 7 (when it was 7-0).  MU led by at the half, but after halftime Stanford took the lead, then MU took the lead, etc.  I don't recall anything from that game that suggests that Crean made any effective halftime adjustments.

Look, all I'm sharing is my perception.  I felt like Crean didn't make good adjustments.  You mentioned a few games that you think suggest he did make good adjustments.  I'm not saying he never did, and I'm not saying MU never came from behind to win.  Thus far, I'm ecouraged by what I perceive as adjustments by Buzz during the halftime (even in games that we are leading and continue to lead).

Go Warriors!  Crush Georgetown!

[NavinRJohnson]

I'm still puzzled at the success of this team.  I thought for sure you couldn't win with just guards.   

Be careful now...as has been pointed out in many of the Curb your Enthusiasm threads, we haven't won anything yet (which of course is true).

[NavinRJohnson]

If Crean had been the wrong hire for the time, if he couldn't recruit and promote the hell out of the program and coach a little, we would be where SJU/DePaul/Seton Hall are...But look 90 miles south on 94 and contemplate how easy it would be for us to end up like them.   

I have not seen anybody say this. I think most almost universally agree he was exactly the right hire for the time. However, I think many also feel (perhaps including Crean himself) that he may have peaked out and it was a good time for a change. As good a job as he did, there certainly did appear to be room for improvement. Time will obviously tell if that is the case or not.

[downtown85]

I have not seen anybody say this. I think most almost universally agree he was exactly the right hire for the time. However, I think many also feel (perhaps including Crean himself) that he may have peaked out and it was a good time for a change. As good a job as he did, there certainly did appear to be room for improvement. Time will obviously tell if that is the case or not.

+1  I think that post summarizes my view and probably the majority of readers of this board.  I would like take a moment to thank Tom Crean for the following:

* reinvigorating the program
* recruiting Dwyane Wade
* taking us to the Final Four
* helping get us to the Big East
* recruiting the current class of seniors
* hiring Buzz Williams, and
* leaving when he did. 

Good luck at Indiana.  I think he is what they need right now. 

[tower912]

Maybe he had peaked, maybe in this day and age 8-10 years in one place is the limita before we see diminishing returns.   And I have never said I thought he was Tommy Naismith.   He certainly had flaws.   However, to refuse to give him any credit for where the program is now is just wrong.     Again, see DePaul, or even MU under Dukiet, to see what happens with the wrong coach in the wrong place at the wrong time. 

[mu-rara]

It seems like anyone who finds a flaw with TC is a hater and
anyone who says anything positive is a TC lover.

Most of us saw a guy with positives and negatives. 

He left the program in better shape than he found it.  He may have peaked at MU.  His game plans were usually sound.  He had trouble with in game adjustments.  He was hard to work for.  He was a great promoter of MU (and himself).  Overall, I'd say he was a net gain. 

I love what Buzz is doing.  Can't give him an overall grade yet.

[NavinRJohnson]

He certainly had flaws.   However, to refuse to give him any credit for where the program is now is just wrong.  

You are absolutely right. I just haven't seen anybody take that position.

[Tugg Speedman]

The basic theme here is Crean is a coach that can and will take IU to a level where they are consistently ranked and always finish in the top 3 of the B10.  However, it is believed this will not cut it at IU.  Then want to be at a higher level.  They want to be at Duke's level.  Many here question if Crean can go to that level?

The doubters are saying that Crean cannot go to that level because he did not show that ability at MU.

So, here is the uncomfortable question for MU fans ... Does IU STILL hold an inherent advantage over MU on the recuriting trail.  Is Crean correct in thinking that IU will give him a little more wind at his back to get the recruits to go to the next level that he could not at MU (save 2003)?

I agree with the argument about his lack of coaching abilities.  But how good a x and o guy are Coach K, Williams at UNC and Ben Howland at UCLA?  With the talent they bring in every year, a chimp could coach them to the sweet sixteen.  So, Crean's hoping his recruiting will compensate for his lack of coaching prowess (my description of Crean's objective).

You agree?

[Brewtown Andy]

So, here is the uncomfortable question for MU fans ... Does IU STILL hold an inherent advantage over MU on the recuriting trail.  Is Crean correct in thinking that IU will give him a little more wind at his back to get the recruits to go to the next level that he could not at MU (save 2003)?

You agree?

Arguably, for the next two years, he'll be able to recruit kids on the promise of PT.  Since the team will be lousy, he may as well get the younger kids the experience.

I'm not going to consider IU to have an advantage over MU until I see a 4 year recruit over 6'9" 230 who's averaging a double double for IU.

Also, does anyone else think one of Crean's reasons for leaving was that he didn't want to get roasted for failing to win big with this MU team?

[NavinRJohnson]

Yes he will have an inherent advantage at IU. He will recruit better at IU than he did at MU. Does that mean he will recruit at the level of Duke, UNC, Kansas, etc? I guess I have my doubts. That would appear to be the expectation however. Again, time will tell.

[goinUptown]

The most succinctly I have ever heard it put regarding Crean and recruiting as it relates to Marquette and his move to IU--it may have been posted on this board already--I cannot take credit for it:

We will find out soon enough whether Marquette was holding Crean back or holding him up.