MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: Benny B on April 27, 2019, 03:49:51 PM
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No surprise... FL is #1, CO is #3, CA and IL are middle of the pack (25 & 28), and WV and KY (48 & 50) are bringing up the rear.
Surprising.... South Dakota at #2, Iowa at #7 and Wisconsin charting in at #12.... ahead of SC (18), AZ (14) and TX (20).
Maybe snow isn’t so bad, after all.
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No surprise... FL is #1, CO is #3, CA and IL are middle of the pack (25 & 28), and WV and KY (48 & 50) are bringing up the rear.
Surprising.... South Dakota at #2, Iowa at #7 and Wisconsin charting in at #12.... ahead of SC (18), AZ (14) and TX (20).
Maybe snow isn’t so bad, after all.
This doesn't tell us anything if we don't know the criteria and how each one was weighted.
Do you have a link?
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This doesn't tell us anything if we don't know the criteria and how each one was weighted.
Do you have a link?
It's Benny approved. Dont need no link.
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Maybe wallethub?
https://wallethub.com/edu/best-and-worst-states-to-retire/18592/ (https://wallethub.com/edu/best-and-worst-states-to-retire/18592/)
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The only state in the top 20 for all three categories....UTAH. Also was high high on our list.
California 34th for affordability....that made me laugh. Yes, there are parts of California that are really cheap and all the meth you can want, along with brutal heat and poverty. Anywhere desirable, forget it.
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Honestly, any ranking by state is basically garbage.
Take Illinois, for instance. Your experience retiring in Wilmette is going to be very different than your experience retiring in Cairo or East St. Louis.
The only thing that is truly comparable state-by-state is climate and state tax burden.
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The only state in the top 20 for all three categories....UTAH. Also was high high on our list.
My son is moving to SLC after he graduates. He and I are going to have a good old fashioned father-son road trip out there first week of July.
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My son is moving to SLC after he graduates. He and I are going to have a good old fashioned father-son road trip out there first week of July.
Make sure you spend some time in Park City while you are out there. It's probably the most un-Mormonly place in the area.
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My son is moving to SLC after he graduates. He and I are going to have a good old fashioned father-son road trip out there first week of July.
My son was down to Utah, Pitt, Syracuse, Marquette in his last four to decide on school. SLC was great when we visited. Enjoyed it a lot. 30 minutes from Park City. I highly recommend doing the Olympic Bobsled run. Well worth it. Total blast. In the winter it is the real deal on ice, but in the Summer about 10mph slower on wheels...still great.
An Olympian in training will drive.....you friggin move. It rocks.
https://www.youtube.com/v/GNYJUmBqz5c
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Honestly, any ranking by state is basically garbage.
True. I'm in Naples and I wouldn't trade it for any place in the states - but there are places in Florida I'd want no part of.
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Honestly, any ranking by state is basically garbage.
Yep yep.
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Ah hell.... forgot link. My bad
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/best-states-for-retirement-212045654.html
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Yahoo was reporting on Wallethub .. so here's the primary link:
https://wallethub.com/edu/best-and-worst-states-to-retire/18592/
Lots of criteria there, although each person would have their own weightings. I mean, "weather" but only kicks in 2.6% of the total. I think for most people, weather is anywhere between 50-90% of their decision.
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Weather is it. For the first time, my wife and I discussed the possibility of being snowbirds. She increasingly struggles with cold. I used to mock the notion. Now I see I may have to do it for my wife's health.
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California 34th for affordability....that made me laugh. Yes, there are parts of California that are really cheap and all the meth you can want, along with brutal heat and poverty. Anywhere desirable, forget it.
That is quite the statement. There are plenty of nice places in California that are nice and relatively inexpensive. A good friend of mine owns a nice plot of land with an ocean view near Eureka, and it wasn't anymore expensive than a lake lot in northern Wisconsin.
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That is quite the statement. There are plenty of nice places in California that are nice and relatively inexpensive. A good friend of mine owns a nice plot of land with an ocean view near Eureka, and it wasn't anymore expensive than a lake lot in northern Wisconsin.
Average home prices in Eureka are 2.3X higher than northern Wisconsin per Zillow.
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Average home prices in Eureka are 2.3X higher than northern Wisconsin per Zillow.
Are you comparing land "near" Eureka with lakefront property in northern Wisconsin? Because there is plenty of really cheap housing in small towns up north.
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Are you comparing land "near" Eureka with lakefront property in northern Wisconsin? Because there is plenty of really cheap housing in small towns up north.
Broadly comparing. I agree with you that there are pockets anywhere of goodness all over the place. In general, Calif is very expensive and the places that are cheap, generally speaking, are less desirable....not a surprise as that dynamic is consistent in many places in the country. We have a tremendous tax and poverty issue in this state, along with a meth epidemic that is something to be seen. Very difficult for the middle class. I am rather surprised at the rankings to be blunt.
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Yahoo was reporting on Wallethub .. so here's the primary link:
https://wallethub.com/edu/best-and-worst-states-to-retire/18592/
Lots of criteria there, although each person would have their own weightings. I mean, "weather" but only kicks in 2.6% of the total. I think for most people, weather is anywhere between 50-90% of their decision.
This suggests Ohio
https://locations.arbys.com/oh.html
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Make sure you spend some time in Park City while you are out there. It's probably the most un-Mormonly place in the area.
SLC was great when we visited. Enjoyed it a lot. 30 minutes from Park City. I highly recommend doing the Olympic Bobsled run. Well worth it. Total blast. In the winter it is the real deal on ice, but in the Summer about 10mph slower on wheels...still great.
An Olympian in training will drive.....you friggin move. It rocks.
We'll have to try go get out there. I know my son went to Park City several times when he was working in SLC last summer and loved it. Some of the people he worked with actually live there and make the drive to SLC every day.
The bobsled would be fun. I hope we have some time to explore a little bit and get to Park City, but we might be fairly busy moving him into his new place (which he still hasn't found...fingers crossed).
My son ran into Grayson Allen in Park City. Fortunately, Allen didn't trip him.
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Weather is it. For the first time, my wife and I discussed the possibility of being snowbirds. She increasingly struggles with cold. I used to mock the notion. Now I see I may have to do it for my wife's health.
Birding is great tower. When it's 55 in Summerlin and the locals have on a freaking Goose & Uggs and I'm wearing a light sweatshirt. Plus the sun is out.
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We'll have to try go get out there. I know my son went to Park City several times when he was working in SLC last summer and loved it. Some of the people he worked with actually live there and make the drive to SLC every day.
The bobsled would be fun. I hope we have some time to explore a little bit and get to Park City, but we might be fairly busy moving him into his new place (which he still hasn't found...fingers crossed).
My son ran into Grayson Allen in Park City. Fortunately, Allen didn't trip him.
Walk to the top of Main Street and score yourself a Pologmy Porter.
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True. I'm in Naples and I wouldn't trade it for any place in the states - but there are places in Florida I'd want no part of.
If you know anyone who is a member at Calusa Pines, you gotta play it. Same thing with The Concession up the road in Bradenton. Two of the top5 courses in Florida.
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Sister Chick is right about these polls being garbage. Much depends on what you want in your retirement.
My wife and I went to the Treasure Coast of Florida for part of the year (October to May). I still work remotely and we’re able to get a very pleasant winter. Our town has a vibrant arts and entertainment community, restaurants that could stand up to major metro communities and we’re less than two hours from three major airports. Spring training is less than an hour away.
Oh, and down here, we get FS1 and most of the Warrior games, which is an absolute must for me.
If you want seasons, we have three here. Snowbird, summer and hurricane. That’s why we’re back in Chicago in May.
My parents, in sharp contrast, retired to Douglas County, WI. They originally were from up there (it’s furthest northwest point in the state), apparently thought snow was a gift from God and had stayed close to several of their best friends in high school. Douglas County is gorgeous in summer and wicked in winter. But people like that.
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Walk to the top of Main Street and score yourself a Pologmy Porter.
This. And wear your MU gear, since Wasatch Brewery was started by an MU grad.
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It doesn't surprise me to see that weather is not a huge factor. First I think people who live in the upper midwest are biased toward weather being a factor because of our winters. Second, I know more people who stick around for family reasons (my parents) or for financial reasons (the house they own is the cheapest place they can live), than I know people who have flat out moved somewhere warm. Sure I know a few snowbirds or people who find somewhere nice to go in January, but flat out relocate? Very few.
Also remember that most people aren't going to be able to afford a second residence. Enormous factor.
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It doesn't surprise me to see that weather is not a huge factor. First I think people who live in the upper midwest are biased toward weather being a factor because of our winters. Second, I know more people who stick around for family reasons (my parents) or for financial reasons (the house they own is the cheapest place they can live), than I know people who have flat out moved somewhere warm. Sure I know a few snowbirds or people who find somewhere nice to go in January, but flat out relocate? Very few.
Also remember that most people aren't going to be able to afford a second residence. Enormous factor.
People who stick around for family reasons aren't going to be looking at a "Best Places to Retire" survey, anyway.
Also, if you are looking for the cheapest place to live, where you are living now isn't likely to be the cheapest unless you are already in a cheap area, or you are upside down on your mortgage (which I hope would be a rarity among folks nearing retirement age).
Even if your house is paid off, you can sell it and buy something in a place with lower taxes and cost of living.
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People who stick around for family reasons aren't going to be looking at a "Best Places to Retire" survey, anyway.
Also, if you are looking for the cheapest place to live, where you are living now isn't likely to be the cheapest unless you are already in a cheap area, or you are upside down on your mortgage (which I hope would be a rarity among folks nearing retirement age).
Even if your house is paid off, you can sell it and buy something in a place with lower taxes and cost of living.
My in-laws owned a "small but tidy" house free and clear that they sold for $175,000 when they died in a nice small town in SE Wisconsin. You think they were going to make money by selling that house and moving to Florida?
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People who stick around for family reasons aren't going to be looking at a "Best Places to Retire" survey, anyway.
This is a good point.
I mean .. "I'm going to retire to North Dakota" is something no one said ever.
So .. lists like this can be looked at two ways. Either, "You're in state X, this is how it ranks" .. or .. "You are thinking of retiring somewhere, here's a ranking for your consideration."
.. It would be interesting to know .. what %age of people retire "somewhere" versus stay where they are. Across the US, I imagine it's under 5% that actually relocate.
When only a third of the population contribute regularly to a retirement plan .. I imagine "relocating" is small piece of the retirement community.
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People who stick around for family reasons aren't going to be looking at a "Best Places to Retire" survey, anyway.
Also, if you are looking for the cheapest place to live, where you are living now isn't likely to be the cheapest unless you are already in a cheap area, or you are upside down on your mortgage (which I hope would be a rarity among folks nearing retirement age).
Even if your house is paid off, you can sell it and buy something in a place with lower taxes and cost of living.
All true, chickadee, good points.
We're gonna have some choices to make in the fairly near future as we already have decided we're not gonna settle down in NC. One kid in Chicago, the other in Seattle, too far to both (especially Seattle).
We were glad to move from cold weather, but we're gonna want to be closer to our kids and grandkids. And we definitely would like affordability, so moving to either Chicago or Seattle probably not in our cards.
Maybe Nevada? Easy non-stop flights to both places. (Though I think I'd have to give up gambling permanently.) Maybe Colorado? If we can convince ourselves that we could handle the snow and cold again. (We'd have to promise ourselves that we'll take a couple long vacations every winter.)
This is always an interesting subject to me. Glad Benny brought it up.
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What about on a cruise ship?
https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2015/01/19/woman-pays-164k-per-year-to-live-on-luxury-cruise-ship/22030011/
Priorities are investment income, pensions, insurance, taxes, and medical. Obviously, proximity to family is #1. Yet, travel and variety might be #1 in the early retirement years. Six months in the Midwest, a quarter in two other places per year.
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My in-laws owned a "small but tidy" house free and clear that they sold for $175,000 when they died in a nice small town in SE Wisconsin. You think they were going to make money by selling that house and moving to Florida?
Yes.
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Priorities are investment income, pensions, insurance, taxes, and medical. Obviously, proximity to family is #1. Yet, travel and variety might be #1 in the early retirement years. Six months in the Midwest, a quarter in two other places per year.
I like this idea. I could even see us moving back to Chicago as long as we could go to Hawaii/AZ/Cal/Fla for a few months in the winter.
Some might think that the above is too expensive, but a friend of mine who lives in Skokie just emailed me info of a cute house on his block that's listed for low-300s, and it's definitely possible to find nice vacation rentals in AZ and Fla for a couple thou a month or less. So not super-cheap like Omaha, but not LA/SF/Sea/DC/Chi/NY/Bos expensive, either.
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Yes.
Bullsh*t.
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I like this idea. I could even see us moving back to Chicago as long as we could go to Hawaii/AZ/Cal/Fla for a few months in the winter.
Some might think that the above is too expensive, but a friend of mine who lives in Skokie just emailed me info of a cute house on his block that's listed for low-300s, and it's definitely possible to find nice vacation rentals in AZ and Fla for a couple thou a month or less. So not super-cheap like Omaha, but not LA/SF/Sea/DC/Chi/NY/Bos expensive, either.
I would just add this opens up rental or Airbnb opportunities in the Midwest if it is a condo in downtown Chicago or MKE.
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I would just add this opens up rental or Airbnb opportunities in the Midwest if it is a condo in downtown Chicago or MKE.
Brothers MU and Blackheart, we have a home in the North Suburbs of Chicago that, while perfect for raising a family, is overkill in the extreme for two retired persons in their late 60s and 70s. At some point, we're probably going to sell that place and use the proceeds to acquire a condo or townhouse in Milwaukee or Chicago.
We are intrigued at the possibility of purchasing a condo on Prospect Avenue on the East Side of Milwaukee.
Like Brother Mu's earlier point, a lot depends on where our children are.
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Just saw this in my feed ..
4 gorgeous beach towns where you can comfortably retire on $40,000 a year
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/4-gorgeous-beach-towns-where-you-can-comfortably-retire-on-40000-a-year-2019-04-29
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If we move when we retire, it will be 100% for the weather. Maybe a double wide in two different retirement communities.
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Maybe Nevada? Easy non-stop flights to both places. (Though I think I'd have to give up gambling permanently.) Maybe Colorado? If we can convince ourselves that we could handle the snow and cold again. (We'd have to promise ourselves that we'll take a couple long vacations every winter.)
Snow perhaps, but Denver is a good 15 degrees warmer on average than Chicago in the truly brutal months. My sister went to Boulder for a year and one of her most surprising takeaways was how mild the winters were. There were as many warm (50s) days in Nov and Feb as there was truly cold days
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arizona!
cheaper than many
sun, dry heat, swimming pools, golf, good people, entertainment(baseball, basketball, football, hockey, college/pro), convertible jeeps, easy to fly back to wisconsin for family, 30 min. flight to vegas
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This. And wear your MU gear, since Wasatch Brewery was started by an MU grad.
Seriously? I did not know that. Very cool. I'll remember to buy his stuff in Vegas. You can often get a few varieties at Albertson's.
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I would just add this opens up rental or Airbnb opportunities in the Midwest if it is a condo in downtown Chicago or MKE.
I like how you think. I was just talking to a guy who has a condo in downtown Charlotte and he says he does great airbnb biz with it. I imagine Chicago would really be hopping.
arizona!
cheaper than many
sun, dry heat, swimming pools, golf, good people, entertainment(baseball, basketball, football, hockey, college/pro), convertible jeeps, easy to fly back to wisconsin for family, 30 min. flight to vegas
During the great recession/housing crisis, they were practically giving away property in PHX suburbs. You could get a nice 2BR villa in a newer retirement community for $150K or less, and they even were letting people as young as 40 or 45 buy in. Obviously, those days are gone, but you're right, rocket, still some relatively cheap areas.
Snow perhaps, but Denver is a good 15 degrees warmer on average than Chicago in the truly brutal months. My sister went to Boulder for a year and one of her most surprising takeaways was how mild the winters were. There were as many warm (50s) days in Nov and Feb as there was truly cold days
Good point, and I think I read something about Denver getting more than 300 sunny days a year.
I had an MU buddy who lived in Golden after we graduated and I visited him one May weekend. On the Friday, it was dreary and about 50. On the Saturday, it snowed 2 inches. By Sunday morning, the snow had melted, and we golfed that afternoon in 65 degree weather and sunshine. I had never seen anything like that.
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Good point, and I think I read something about Denver getting more than 300 sunny days a year.
I had an MU buddy who lived in Golden after we graduated and I visited him one May weekend. On the Friday, it was dreary and about 50. On the Saturday, it snowed 2 inches. By Sunday morning, the snow had melted, and we golfed that afternoon in 65 degree weather and sunshine. I had never seen anything like that.
3-4 years ago, went skiing for Presidents Day weekend. Beautiful days with fresh powder up near Vail. Drove back down, spent Monday with my sister on CU's campus, mid 50s, no jackets needed, cloudless sky. Its unreal
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Guys, I'd still take Florida. Have a home 1/4 mile from the Atlantic Ocean on a barrier island, Tropical back-yard and pool. No state income taxes, property taxes are less than half of what they are in Illinois. Cleveland Clinic just acquired our local hospital, so health care will be excellent (it is mediocre now).
Only two-high rises in the entire county but a very strong restaurant scene, arts community is incredible and performing arts is very good.
Oh, and our vote for President matters, whoever you vote for! Unlike Illinois.
We're an hour from Palm Beach and two hours from Miami in case there isn't enough here. The Mets train a half hour away and the Cardinals, Marlins, Astros and Nats are an hour away. For what it's worth, Sandy Koufax lives in the next subdivision over and Ron Peranowski, he of Dodger pitching coach fame, is the resident "Norm" at my favorite local bar.
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Guys, I'd still take Florida. Have a home 1/4 mile from the Atlantic Ocean on a barrier island, Tropical back-yard and pool. No state income taxes, property taxes are less than half of what they are in Illinois. Cleveland Clinic just acquired our local hospital, so health care will be excellent (it is mediocre now).
Only two-high rises in the entire county but a very strong restaurant scene, arts community is incredible and performing arts is very good.
Oh, and our vote for President matters, whoever you vote for! Unlike Illinois.
We're an hour from Palm Beach and two hours from Miami in case there isn't enough here. The Mets train a half hour away and the Cardinals, Marlins, Astros and Nats are an hour away. For what it's worth, Sandy Koufax lives in the next subdivision over and Ron Peranowski, he of Dodger pitching coach fame, is the resident "Norm" at my favorite local bar.
Sounds very nice, dg. You've probably already said but I'm too lazy to look back ... what town do you live in, and how long have you been there?
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"During the great recession/housing crisis, they were practically giving away property in PHX suburbs. You could get a nice 2BR villa in a newer retirement community for $150K or less, and they even were letting people as young as 40 or 45 buy in. Obviously, those days are gone, but you're right, rocket, still some relatively cheap areas."
exactly right mr. 82 thanks to moody's and the sub prime scoflaws, 2008/09 gave me an opportunity i never would have had. i guess crime does pay after all, kinda ?-(
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We're an hour from Palm Beach and two hours from Miami in case there isn't enough here. The Mets train a half hour away and the Cardinals, Marlins, Astros and Nats are an hour away. For what it's worth, Sandy Koufax lives in the next subdivision over and Ron Peranowski, he of Dodger pitching coach fame, is the resident "Norm" at my favorite local bar.
Vero Beach stand up!
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Seriously? I did not know that. Very cool. I'll remember to buy his stuff in Vegas. You can often get a few varieties at Albertson's.
Yup.
http://allaboutbeer.com/utah-brewers-cooperative/
"Greg Schirf’s mother dropped him at the side of the highway in Milwaukee so that he could hitchhike to Utah. It was 1974, and the recently minted Marquette University graduate, hair down to his waist, was unsure of what he wanted to do with his life. His older brother had gone to school out west, and had settled in a place called Park City, Utah."
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Sounds very nice, dg. You've probably already said but I'm too lazy to look back ... what town do you live in, and how long have you been there?
Brother JWags figured it out. I am in Vero Beach.
We bought a home on the tail end of the last recession and have owned here for five years. Vero is one of the nicest communities on the east coast of Florida. We have several significant nature preserves here and an unbelievably good set of beaches. Wabasso Beach is practically out my front door (actually about 1/4 of a mile away as I noted before).
The Indian River County Jungle Trail is in my backyard. We've had "problems" with river otters rolling through our front yard not to mention land crab migration that ended up in my hallway in November (that was fun because none of knew what it was). The good news about being on a barrier island is no alligators -- they hate salt water and the Indian River is brackish. We have dolphins and manatees in the Indian River, which also is kinda cool to watch. And, we have owls nesting in the window sills on my home.
All in all, I'd recommend Vero to anyone looking!
P.S. -- When it was -30 in Chicago in late January, it was in the mid 70s to low 80s here. People locally were complaining about how it was too warm!
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Yahoo was reporting on Wallethub .. so here's the primary link:
https://wallethub.com/edu/best-and-worst-states-to-retire/18592/
Lots of criteria there, although each person would have their own weightings. I mean, "weather" but only kicks in 2.6% of the total. I think for most people, weather is anywhere between 50-90% of their decision.
Weather is like <5% of my decision on where to live. But I am also not retired.
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Brother JWags figured it out. I am in Vero Beach.
Is the Ocean Grill still operating/standing? I honeymooned in Vero in 1981. Recall the Ocean Grill being a really nice place, and operated by the owner of Jake's here in Sir Lawrence Land. Jake Replogle. Believe it or not, he was the food manager at Marquette in the 50's.
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Is the Ocean Grill still operating/standing? I honeymooned in Vero in 1981. Recall the Ocean Grill being a really nice place, and operated by the owner of Jake's here in Sir Lawrence Land. Jake Replogle. Believe it or not, he was the food manager at Marquette in the 50's.
Yes, it is still here. My daughter and her boyfriend took my wife and I there while they were in town in March. It's nice but crowded -- very crowded. The food is good and the service prompt.
Ocean Grill is very good but there are better in town. The re-opened Citrus Grill is spectacular (with a price tag to match). Their veranda overlooks the Atlantic Ocean, is outside and is one of the best romantic spots in the City, especially after the lights go out at 9:00 p.m., to protect sea turtles. The locals all like Bobby's, which is a steak and seafood place kinda reminiscent of a Wisconsin Supper Club that forgot to put out the relish tray.
OK gang, if I sound like the VB Chamber of Commerce, I apologize. But the place is great and we stay here until late May and head back to Chicago for the summer and fall. Brother Sir Lawrence, when you coming back?
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(https://i.redd.it/llvwk8qcuev21.jpg)
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Brother JWags figured it out. I am in Vero Beach.
We bought a home on the tail end of the last recession and have owned here for five years. Vero is one of the nicest communities on the east coast of Florida. We have several significant nature preserves here and an unbelievably good set of beaches. Wabasso Beach is practically out my front door (actually about 1/4 of a mile away as I noted before).
The Indian River County Jungle Trail is in my backyard. We've had "problems" with river otters rolling through our front yard not to mention land crab migration that ended up in my hallway in November (that was fun because none of knew what it was). The good news about being on a barrier island is no alligators -- they hate salt water and the Indian River is brackish. We have dolphins and manatees in the Indian River, which also is kinda cool to watch. And, we have owls nesting in the window sills on my home.
All in all, I'd recommend Vero to anyone looking!
P.S. -- When it was -30 in Chicago in late January, it was in the mid 70s to low 80s here. People locally were complaining about how it was too warm!
Sounds great.
Next Feb or so, get the guest bedroom ready for Mrs. 82 and me!
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Sounds great.
Next Feb or so, get the guest bedroom ready for Mrs. 82 and me!
Come to Naples - I liked southeastern Florida, had been there many times. One visit to southwestern Florida and I was hooked. Bought a place, sold the house in Chicago, moved lock, stock and barrel. Hot in the summer, yes, but Naples had NEVER recorded a 100 degree temp (I remember many in Chicago). We travel a lot in the summer. I'm feeling a beer/meat summit here next winter.
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Come to Naples - I liked southeastern Florida, had been there many times. One visit to southwestern Florida and I was hooked. Bought a place, sold the house in Chicago, moved lock, stock and barrel. Hot in the summer, yes, but Naples had NEVER recorded a 100 degree temp (I remember many in Chicago). We travel a lot in the summer. I'm feeling a beer/meat summit here next winter.
I do like your part of the country. We have gone many times to Marco Island, Sanibel and Captiva. Also have relatives in Sarasota up the coast some. Met some friends for dinner in Naples once but have never stayed there. If I could shake free, I'd love to do a beer summit and hack up a golf course or two!
I also remember many hot days in Chicago. Not all that long after we moved there, I want to say 1995 or so, it was an infamously hot period in the city's history. Many people (especially the elderly and infirm) died because of the heat, several consecutive 100+ days.
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I do like your part of the country. We have gone many times to Marco Island, Sanibel and Captiva. Also have relatives in Sarasota up the coast some. Met some friends for dinner in Naples once but have never stayed there. If I could shake free, I'd love to do a beer summit and hack up a golf course or two!
I also remember many hot days in Chicago. Not all that long after we moved there, I want to say 1995 or so, it was an infamously hot period in the city's history. Many people (especially the elderly and infirm) died because of the heat, several consecutive 100+ days.
We live on a golf course, Mike - I have a hard and fast rule for visitors - first round is on me.
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We live on a golf course, Mike - I have a hard and fast rule for visitors - first round is on me.
I have a related rule: I accept the first round being on somebody else - ha!
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Guys, I'd still take Florida. Have a home 1/4 mile from the Atlantic Ocean on a barrier island, Tropical back-yard and pool. No state income taxes, property taxes are less than half of what they are in Illinois. Cleveland Clinic just acquired our local hospital, so health care will be excellent (it is mediocre now).
Only two-high rises in the entire county but a very strong restaurant scene, arts community is incredible and performing arts is very good.
Oh, and our vote for President matters, whoever you vote for! Unlike Illinois.
We're an hour from Palm Beach and two hours from Miami in case there isn't enough here. The Mets train a half hour away and the Cardinals, Marlins, Astros and Nats are an hour away. For what it's worth, Sandy Koufax lives in the next subdivision over and Ron Peranowski, he of Dodger pitching coach fame, is the resident "Norm" at my favorite local bar.
How da broads lookin', hey?
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How da broads lookin', hey?
Old, like the rest of Florida.
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How da broads lookin', hey?
Besides having the clap, not too saggy.
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(https://i.redd.it/llvwk8qcuev21.jpg)
Brother Hilltoppers, really? Just because we live south of the Ohio River doesn’t mean we are racists. A bit bizarre I’ll grant you but Florida has worked hard to be inviting for all. We truly have. The only things we discriminate against are gators (because we wrestle and eat them) and environmentalists, because they get in the way of using carload after carload of pesticides and fertilizers to make things grow in the Everglades and somehow manage to scream about a development or two every now and then.
Even the environmentalists are getting better acceptance, primarily because agricultural runoff in summer has created green slime around the southern extreme of the Treasure Coast (Jupiter to Stuart and Port St. Lucie).
As to your other points, Big Grocery is almost as ubiquitous as alligators. Big Grocery is everywhere down here, kinda like Jewel in Chicago or Pick n Save in Milwaukee. The best Publix in town is the one that hasn’t been built yet, or at least that’s Big Grocery’s theory.
Old people are an occupational hazard on our two-lane roads but on our major highways, we have three lanes — the Green Lane (right, for people who think the speed limit is indeed a limit), the Bubba Lane (the middle lane for people who drive up to 20 miles and hour over) and the NASCAR lane (the left lane, for the majority of Floridians who believe the speed limit is, at best, a minimum speed in heavy traffic). God help anyone who gets in the NASCAR lane and drives the speed limit!
Our birds actually are rather interesting. At least the ones that weren’t hunted 100 years ago for feathers for ladies’ hats. Perhaps even 10 of the millions of birds in the state are indigenous species to Florida.
Finally, as to the soul sapping heat, we’ve been down in July a few times. Yes, it’s hot. Real hot. But is it anymore toasty than Chicago in July, or DC?
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Brother Hilltoppers, really? Just because we live south of the Ohio River doesn’t mean we are racists. A bit bizarre I’ll grant you but Florida has worked hard to be inviting for all. We truly have. The only things we discriminate against are gators (because we wrestle and eat them) and environmentalists, because they get in the way of using carload after carload of pesticides and fertilizers to make things grow in the Everglades and somehow manage to scream about a development or two every now and then.
Even the environmentalists are getting better acceptance, primarily because agricultural runoff in summer has created green slime around the southern extreme of the Treasure Coast (Jupiter to Stuart and Port St. Lucie).
As to your other points, Big Grocery is almost as ubiquitous as alligators. Big Grocery is everywhere down here, kinda like Jewel in Chicago or Pick n Save in Milwaukee. The best Publix in town is the one that hasn’t been built yet, or at least that’s Big Grocery’s theory.
Old people are an occupational hazard on our two-lane roads but on our major highways, we have three lanes — the Green Lane (right, for people who think the speed limit is indeed a limit), the Bubba Lane (the middle lane for people who drive up to 20 miles and hour over) and the NASCAR lane (the left lane, for the majority of Floridians who believe the speed limit is, at best, a minimum speed in heavy traffic). God help anyone who gets in the NASCAR lane and drives the speed limit!
Our birds actually are rather interesting. At least the ones that weren’t hunted 100 years ago for feathers for ladies’ hats. Perhaps even 10 of the millions of birds in the state are indigenous species to Florida.
Finally, as to the soul sapping heat, we’ve been down in July a few times. Yes, it’s hot. Real hot. But is it anymore toasty than Chicago in July, or DC?
Don't worry. One thing I've found from a lifetime of living in 4 diff states in the Midwest. People from the Midwest that don't have the means, opportunity, or ambition to move South or West find endless ways to disparage every attractive Southern destination from Florida, to Texas, to Tennessee, to Arizona. Racism, heat, "bad schools", etc... All seemingly used as excuses for why they are fine staying in the Midwest, ignoring population growth trends as well as movement of business and industry.
And before other defenders jump in, that category of people I mention rarely overlaps with those that love the Midwest for a number of quality reasons. They usually moan about weather, or crime, or how the Midwest is perceived on the coasts or down South, but make some lame excuse for why they won't leave while ragging on everything else.
Not taking a shot at Hiltopper specifically, he was making a joke. But its emblematic of an obnoxious mentality. Also LOL at pointing out Southern racism when aggressive segregation is as core to the Midwest identity as a lack of a Spring.
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Don't worry. One thing I've found from a lifetime of living in 4 diff states in the Midwest. People from the Midwest that don't have the means, opportunity, or ambition to move South or West find endless ways to disparage every attractive Southern destination from Florida, to Texas, to Tennessee, to Arizona. Racism, heat, "bad schools", etc... All seemingly used as excuses for why they are fine staying in the Midwest, ignoring population growth trends as well as movement of business and industry.
And before other defenders jump in, that category of people I mention rarely overlaps with those that love the Midwest for a number of quality reasons. They usually moan about weather, or crime, or how the Midwest is perceived on the coasts or down South, but make some lame excuse for why they won't leave while ragging on everything else.
Not taking a shot at Hiltopper specifically, he was making a joke. But its emblematic of an obnoxious mentality. Also LOL at pointing out Southern racism when aggressive segregation is as core to the Midwest identity as a lack of a Spring.
The Midwest has lots of racism. No doubt about it. But it is a softer implicit racism than a lot of the blatant stuff in the south.
Obviously, certain parts of the South are changing as more people move there (Atlanta, Austin, Nashville, Charlotte, etc.). But there are still backwater racist areas all over Mississippi, Alabama, and rural areas. Let's not deny reality.
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The Midwest has lots of racism. No doubt about it. But it is a softer implicit racism than a lot of the blatant stuff in the south.
Obviously, certain parts of the South are changing as more people move there (Atlanta, Austin, Nashville, Charlotte, etc.). But there are still backwater racist areas all over Mississippi, Alabama, and rural areas. Let's not deny reality.
Zero disagreement from me. Parts of the South are breathtakingly bad. I just find it amusing when people in the Midwest turn up their nose at racism in the South like they are so beyond that when hardened constructs are at play outside their front door.
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Zero disagreement from me. Parts of the South are breathtakingly bad. I just find it amusing when people in the Midwest turn up their nose at racism in the South like they are so beyond that when hardened constructs are at play outside their front door.
I think Chicago is rated the most segregated city in the U.S. Milwaukee is bad, too.
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You have to admit that playing the Florida Man game is fun.
You Google "Florida Man" plus your birth date and month and share the first news headline that pops up.
Mine is "Florida Man Shot in Buttocks Over Political Argument on Facebook".
Glow's is: "Florida man tells cops he didn't drink while driving, only at stop signs".
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I think Chicago is rated the most segregated city in the U.S. Milwaukee is bad, too.
No doubt. They are definitely two of the worst.
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No doubt. They are definitely two of the worst.
The level of segregation isn't necessarily a direct equivalent of the level of racism.
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The level of segregation isn't necessarily a direct equivalent of the level of racism.
Racism, either overt or subtle, is one of the main causes of housing segregation. There have been studies that measure parent perceptions of schools their children attend, and even when normalized for overall student performance, white parents (in general) will perceive the school to be worse the more diverse it is. And oftentimes perceptions of a school district are why people move.
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Racism, either overt or subtle, is one of the main causes of housing segregation. There have been studies that measure parent perceptions of schools their children attend, and even when normalized for overall student performance, white parents (in general) will perceive the school to be worse the more diverse it is. And oftentimes perceptions of a school district are why people move.
I didn't say racism is a cause of segregation. My point is you can't determine which cities are the most racist based on how segregated they are.
And the facts you state are not the primary way racism caused segregation. Redlining and general white flight are probably bigger factors.
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The Midwest has lots of racism. No doubt about it. But it is a softer implicit racism than a lot of the blatant stuff in the south.
Obviously, certain parts of the South are changing as more people move there (Atlanta, Austin, Nashville, Charlotte, etc.). But there are still backwater racist areas all over Mississippi, Alabama, and rural areas. Let's not deny reality.
Maybe "softer implicit" is the proper term, maybe not. I have talked at length with black friends about racism, north vs. south, etc. All agree racism is way more prevalent in the South - especially away from urban areas they assume everyone is racist. They understand this and need to act accordingly when down there. The racism in the north is more insidious to them because they say they don't know where they stand. They are never sure where or when they will encounter racism in the north. They know they will, but unlike the South, it hits them when they are not expecting it, which is more painful. As a matter of fact, a couple friends said it was easier dealing with in when they lived down south. IOW, racism is everywhere, it just manifests itself differently in different areas of the country.
And to a man (or woman) they all agree it has gotten worse for them in the last two years - both north and south.
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Brother Hilltoppers, really?
I saw it on reddit and posted it. Seemed germain enough.
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The level of segregation isn't necessarily a direct equivalent of the level of racism.
There's a lot to unpack there. I'll just say I mostly (though not entirely) disagree with you.
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I didn't say racism is a cause of segregation. My point is you can't determine which cities are the most racist based on how segregated they are.
And the facts you state are not the primary way racism caused segregation. Redlining and general white flight are probably bigger factors.
Redlining and white flight are (two of many) symptoms of racism. Systemic racism, rather than the overt actions of individual racists, to be sure. But racism nonetheless.
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Maybe "softer implicit" is the proper term, maybe not. I have talked at length with black friends about racism, north vs. south, etc. All agree racism is way more prevalent in the South - especially away from urban areas they assume everyone is racist. They understand this and need to act accordingly when down there. The racism in the north is more insidious to them because they say they don't know where they stand. They are never sure where or when they will encounter racism in the north. They know they will, but unlike the South, it hits them when they are not expecting it, which is more painful. As a matter of fact, a couple friends said it was easier dealing with in when they lived down south. IOW, racism is everywhere, it just manifests itself differently in different areas of the country.
And to a man (or woman) they all agree it has gotten worse for them in the last two years - both north and south.
Interesting perspectives. Thanks for sharing. It kind of reminds me of the old "Green Book" days. Boundaries were very clearly spelled out, but people knew where they stood. I'm not sure that's necessarily better or worse, but it is an interesting perspective.
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Redlining and white flight are (two of many) symptoms of racism.
Of course they are racist. I didn't say they aren't.
What I said was that there was more to segregation than white people choosing to live in a less diverse school district.
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The Midwest has lots of racism. No doubt about it. But it is a softer implicit racism than a lot of the blatant stuff in the south.
Obviously, certain parts of the South are changing as more people move there (Atlanta, Austin, Nashville, Charlotte, etc.). But there are still backwater racist areas all over Mississippi, Alabama, and rural areas. Let's not deny reality.
Charlotte is plenty racist.
Schools have been segregated again.
Upward mobility for people of color ranks 49th out of 50 major cities.
Owner of the football team had to sell because he made racist (and sexist) comments.
Poll done a couple years back showed more thought "reverse racism" was a problem than actual racism.
Many neighborhoods named So-And-So Plantation.
Etc.
But yeah, I'm guessing Charlotte (and Raleigh-Durham) is less racist (if that's a thing) than other parts of North Carolina, as most of this state is still very much Old South.
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I have a related rule: I accept the first round being on somebody else - ha!
find out if that free flight is still hangin out there too...all that's missing is a caddy, eyn'a?
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find out if that free flight is still hangin out there too...all that's missing is a caddy, eyn'a?
Great idea about the flight.
With my golf game, I don't deserve a caddy.
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As someone who, like Brother MU82, has lived both in the south and Midwest, I would quickly argue that no region has the corner on either racism or righteousness. Racism perhaps was more overt in the South than in the Midwest, but Dr. King once commented that some of the most racist people he ever encountered were on the south side of Chicago.
What I feel good about is that we're changing. Perhaps not fast enough, but our acceptance and appreciation of our brothers and sisters who look, act or worship differently has grown exponentially. I see things in my children that I never would have imagined a decade or two ago. The things that probably set our parents' generation off seem not to bother our children in the least.
So when we talk about the south -- and having grown up in Nashville, I could talk about virtues and vices of the south all day (right Sister Chick?) -- so give the region a break. Bull Connor, George Wallace and Ross Barnett have been dead a long, long time. We've evolved and have a long way to go yet.
Those of us who ultimately choose Florida (the subject of this thread) are not racists and are not running from something to which we object. Likewise, the folks in the Midwest aren't inherently objectionable because of a common view about differences in the region. That common view does not exist. Like I said, we have progress yet to make. But we're working on it!
P.S. -- A lot of people still eat gator meat and wear alligator shoes in Florida! At least they're not white shoes!
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As someone who, like Brother MU82, has lived both in the south and Midwest, I would quickly argue that no region has the corner on either racism or righteousness. Racism perhaps was more overt in the South than in the Midwest, but Dr. King once commented that some of the most racist people he ever encountered were on the south side of Chicago.
What I feel good about is that we're changing. Perhaps not fast enough, but our acceptance and appreciation of our brothers and sisters who look, act or worship differently has grown exponentially. I see things in my children that I never would have imagined a decade or two ago. The things that probably set our parents' generation off seem not to bother our children in the least.
So when we talk about the south -- and having grown up in Nashville, I could talk about virtues and vices of the south all day (right Sister Chick?) -- so give the region a break. Bull Connor, George Wallace and Ross Barnett have been dead a long, long time. We've evolved and have a long way to go yet.
Those of us who ultimately choose Florida (the subject of this thread) are not racists and are not running from something to which we object. Likewise, the folks in the Midwest aren't inherently objectionable because of a common view about differences in the region. That common view does not exist. Like I said, we have progress yet to make. But we're working on it!
P.S. -- A lot of people still eat gator meat and wear alligator shoes in Florida! At least they're not white shoes!
Well written, dgies. Lots of work to be done yet, but things are getting better.
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Great idea about the flight.
With my golf game, I don't deserve a caddy.
No need for a caddy, Mike. You can ride in my very own Blue and Gold seated golf cart. Wife gave me the new seats for my 70th birthday last September.
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No need for a caddy, Mike. You can ride in my very own Blue and Gold seated golf cart. Wife gave me the new seats for my 70th birthday last September.
What a wife!
A friend of mine proudly displayed his MU socks at our National Marquette Day event this past Feb, and I hinted strongly that something like that would be a great Father's Day present. We'll see if my wife and kids get the hint.
Yes, I'm starting with a less-than-$20 gift. I think it's gonna take a while to work myself up to golf cart seats! (Especially since I don't own a golf cart.)
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You have to admit that playing the Florida Man game is fun.
You Google "Florida Man" plus your birth date and month and share the first news headline that pops up.
Mine is "Florida Man Shot in Buttocks Over Political Argument on Facebook".
Glow's is: "Florida man tells cops he didn't drink while driving, only at stop signs".
How have I never heard of this?
Mine was: Florida Man Threatens to Kill Neighbors With Machete Named 'Kindness'
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"Florida man accused of stabbing wife over underdone potato."
I suppose she had it coming... he did ask for the rice pilaf.
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Come to Naples - I liked southeastern Florida, had been there many times. One visit to southwestern Florida and I was hooked. Bought a place, sold the house in Chicago, moved lock, stock and barrel. Hot in the summer, yes, but Naples had NEVER recorded a 100 degree temp (I remember many in Chicago). We travel a lot in the summer. I'm feeling a beer/meat summit here next winter.
Bonita Springs I like better...maybe we will have to have that beer after all.
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The Midwest has lots of racism. No doubt about it. But it is a softer implicit racism than a lot of the blatant stuff in the south.
Obviously, certain parts of the South are changing as more people move there (Atlanta, Austin, Nashville, Charlotte, etc.). But there are still backwater racist areas all over Mississippi, Alabama, and rural areas. Let's not deny reality.
Let’s not deny reality that anyone can be racist, including minorities. Come out here to East LA and you can be woke within a few hours of witnessing it.
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Let’s not deny reality that anyone can be racist, including minorities.
There it is!
The scourge of reverse racism strikes again.
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There it is!
The scourge of reverse racism strikes again.
Not sure why it would matter who is doing it or pretending it doesn’t happen, but much like you do with crime where people steal welfare or other examples here over the years, you apparently only care about certain people committing crimes or acting in this matter. Very odd.
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Not sure why it would matter who is doing it or pretending it doesn’t happen, but much like you do with crime where people steal welfare or other examples here over the years, you apparently only care about certain people committing crimes or acting in this matter. Very odd.
Y'all don't know what it's like
Being male, middle-class and white
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Bonita Springs I like better...maybe we will have to have that beer after all.
Bonita Springs ie nice, but not a whole lot of "there" there IMHO. PM me whenever you're headed this way - first round is on me.
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There it is!
The scourge of reverse racism strikes again.
Must not be many Eastern Europeans in Carolina, ayn’a?
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Brother JWags figured it out. I am in Vero Beach.
We bought a home on the tail end of the last recession and have owned here for five years. Vero is one of the nicest communities on the east coast of Florida. We have several significant nature preserves here and an unbelievably good set of beaches. Wabasso Beach is practically out my front door (actually about 1/4 of a mile away as I noted before).
The Indian River County Jungle Trail is in my backyard. We've had "problems" with river otters rolling through our front yard not to mention land crab migration that ended up in my hallway in November (that was fun because none of knew what it was). The good news about being on a barrier island is no alligators -- they hate salt water and the Indian River is brackish. We have dolphins and manatees in the Indian River, which also is kinda cool to watch. And, we have owls nesting in the window sills on my home.
All in all, I'd recommend Vero to anyone looking!
P.S. -- When it was -30 in Chicago in late January, it was in the mid 70s to low 80s here. People locally were complaining about how it was too warm!
STFU. I am in the same area and I like the peace and quiet. Don't listen to djiegs. This area stinks. Go away. Alaska is far better.
Obviously, just kidding. I'll trust more Scoopers, but don't tell anyone else.