NFC North / NFL Thread 2018-19

[wadesworld]

Because he doesn't like him over an admittedly very stupid thing did when Cam was 19 and something his father orchestrated during his recruitment, and in typical Wades fashion, he can't ever let anything go.

Huh?  When did I ever say I have anything against $cam besides he can dish the trash talk when things are going well but when he loses he storms out of press conferences?  And laughs at a reporter because she asked an intelligent football question and women shouldn't do that according to him?

Pretty odd response.

Very odd thing to hang onto what he did at that age considering what he has done since.  And I'm not sure why you would focus on him since, if we have learned anything, dozens of players have likely received similar payments without you applying a similar nickname.

If DeAndre Ayton had a name that I could add a single symbol to and turn it into a nickname, I'd do the same.

Or Tyler Herro, if what you're getting at is I don't make nicknames for white people lol.  I hope that helps you sleep better at night.

Unfortunately I can't say I came up with $cam's nickname myself.

[JWags85]

Huh?  When did I ever say I have anything against $cam besides he can dish the trash talk when things are going well but when he loses he storms out of press conferences?  And laughs at a reporter because she asked an intelligent football question and women shouldn't do that according to him?

Pretty odd response.

Because you insist on calling him a nickname that even grudge holders who hated him in SEC country havent called him in 7-8 years?  Its not funny, its not particularly clever, and its not commonly used anywhere.  But you're the only person on this board who uses it routinely whenever he comes up.  Forgive me if I misinterpreted your neutral and balanced commentary on him.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Huh?  When did I ever say I have anything against $cam besides he can dish the trash talk when things are going well but when he loses he storms out of press conferences?  And laughs at a reporter because she asked an intelligent football question and women shouldn't do that according to him?

Pretty odd response.

If DeAndre Ayton had a name that I could add a single symbol to and turn it into a nickname, I'd do the same.

Or Tyler Herro, if what you're getting at is I don't make nicknames for white people lol.  I hope that helps you sleep better at night.

Unfortunately I can't say I came up with $cam's nickname myself.

pAyton, hey?

[wadesworld]

Because you insist on calling him a nickname that even grudge holders who hated him in SEC country havent called him in 7-8 years?  Its not funny, its not particularly clever, and its not commonly used anywhere.  But you're the only person on this board who uses it routinely whenever he comes up.  Forgive me if I misinterpreted your neutral and balanced commentary on him.

How often does $cam come up on here?  Lol.

pAyton, hey?

I actually did think about that, but Payton/Peyton are common different names.

[MU82]

wades' use of $cam is silly, and like most silly things it should be ignored. So I long ago stopped acknowledging it.

Cam has matured a lot over the years. By all accounts, he has learned from his past mistakes, he is a great father to his kids, he is an extremely charitable guy and he is wonderful in this community. His attitude this season has been extraordinary after losses and wins.

As a football player, he is very hard working. He and Kuechly "compete" to see who will be the first to arrive at Panthers HQ each day and who will be the last to leave. He is a far more studious a QB than is given credit for; I can't help but think much of that is race-related. (The white guys are studious and hard-working, the black guys are naturally talented.)

Cam has adapted well to Norv Turner's system this season. Only once in his first 7 years did he complete more than 60% of his passes, and that was 2013 when it was 61.7%. This season he is at 65.6%. His interception percentage is at a career-low 1.9%. Although he has (smartly) checked down with short passes to McCaffrey and others, he is averaging 238 ypg, only 2 ypg lower than his MVP season and better than his career average.

In each of the last two games, he has been the lead blocker on a reverse. Two weeks ago, he pancaked a safety. This past Sunday, two potential tacklers got out of his way rather than being flattened by him. He is an absolute freak.

On the winning drive Sunday, the Panthers faced a 4th-and-10. Cam made an amazing play.

https://www.panthers.com/video/newton-smith-connect-to-convert-fourth-and-10

Be nice if they could get him another stud WR. Demaryius Thomas is available.

Except for the lack of a true No. 1 in the mold of Brown, Jones, Beckham, Green, etc, I really like the Panthers' receivers. Rookie D.J. Moore is gonna be an absolute stud; by this time next year, he will be a star in the league. Funchess is a big target with some skill - very Demaryius Thomas-like. Torrey Smith and Jarius Wright are vets with a knack for getting open on 3rd down and for getting YAC. Curtis Samuel, their second-round pick in 2017, is one of the fastest guys in the league and he's finally healthy; he has made two sensational plays this season. Plus, McCaffrey is a great pass-catching RB and Olsen is one of the best TEs in the league.

As a team their main weakness has been in the defensive backfield, although they played very well in the 4th quarter Sunday. Their OL has been decimated by injuries - both starting tackles are out - but the fill-ins actually have done a very decent job.

Cam is a great player, a former MVP, a multiple Pro Bowl participant, and he seems to be a decent guy. I'm glad he's "my" QB.

[SaveOD238]

People see his ability to move outside of the pocket, and his inconsistency, and he gets labeled another inaccurate "running QB".

So basically the same assumption that is thrust upon every black QB since Michael Vick.

[MU82]

So basically the same assumption that is thrust upon every black QB since Michael Vick.

Vick?

Goes all the way back to Joe Gilliam, Vince Evans, etc.

Randall Cunningham predated Vick by 15 years and faced the same stuff.

To be fair, much of the same was said about the likes of Douglass, Elway and Young. They were seen as running QBs ... until they either proved themselves as passers (Elway, Young) or didn't (Douglass).

But yes, I think when the casual (and some not-so-casual) fan sees a black QB, the knee-jerk reaction is "running QB."

[wadesworld]

Of the top 10 quarterbacks in passing yards, 9 of them are white.  Of the top 10 quarterbacks in rushing yards, 5 of them are black.  Maybe black quarterbacks are seen more as running threats because, well, more black quarterbacks are running threats?

And from what I can find, there are 7 black starting quarterbacks in the NFL, and one of those seven has only played in 3 games this season and sits at 13 in rushing yards for quarterbacks, so he'd probably also be in the top 10 had he not been suspended to start the year.

So basically 6 of the 7 starting quarterbacks that are black are in the top 10 in rushing yards for quarterbacks this season.  Only 1 of the 7 are top 10 in passing yards, and that 1 sits at number 9.

But yes, thinking black quarterbacks are more of a running threat is just racism in America and not based on facts.

[GGGG]

Of the top 10 quarterbacks in passing yards, 9 of them are white.  Of the top 10 quarterbacks in rushing yards, 5 of them are black.  Maybe black quarterbacks are seen more as running threats because, well, more black quarterbacks are running threats?

How about this?  There are quarterbacks who are better at passing, and quarterbacks who are better at running.  Their race is irrelevant to the conversation.

If "black quarterbacks are seen more as running threats" simply because more black quarterbacks are running threats, that is the very definition of prejudice. 

[wadesworld]

How about this?  There are quarterbacks who are better at passing, and quarterbacks who are better at running.  Their race is irrelevant to the conversation.

If "black quarterbacks are seen more as running threats" simply because more black quarterbacks are running threats, that is the very definition of prejudice.

So saying "there are more black NBA players than white NBA players" is prejudice?

Sorry, agree to disagree.

I don't think race matters in defining an individual's skillset.  I also don't think it's racist or prejudiced to look at stats and conclude that there is a higher percentage of black quarterbacks towards the top of rushing yards in the NFL.  It's just a fact.  I don't think we need to turn everything into racism.

I would consider $cam to be more of a rushing threat because he is 3rd in the NFL in rushing yards by quarterbacks and 27th in the NFL in passing yards.  If that means I'm racist because $cam is black and I think he's more of a rushing threat then I guess I'm a racist.  It really has nothing to do with race.  Just simple stats.

[GGGG]

So saying "there are more black NBA players than white NBA players" is prejudice?

No because that's a quantifiable fact.  It would be prejudicial to then state, "this black guy must be better at basketball than this white guy because there are more black players in the NBA."

Sorry, agree to disagree.

It's not an opinion.  It's the very definition of the word "prejudice."

I would consider $cam to be more of a rushing threat because he is 3rd in the NFL in rushing yards by quarterbacks and 27th in the NFL in passing yards.  If that means I'm racist because $cam is black and I think he's more of a rushing threat then I guess I'm a racist.  It really has nothing to do with race.  Just simple stats.

No no.  The difference is extrapolating a skill set based on their race.  That's exactly what you were doing in the second sentence of your post.

Maybe black quarterbacks are seen more as running threats because, well, more black quarterbacks are running threats?

That's a prejudicial statement.  Black quarterbacks shouldn't be "seen" as running quarterbacks unless they actually are running quarterbacks.

[wadesworld]

No because that's a quantifiable fact.  It would be prejudicial to then state, "this black guy must be better at basketball than this white guy because there are more black players in the NBA."


It's not an opinion.  It's the very definition of the word "prejudice."


No no.  The difference is extrapolating a skill set based on their race.  That's exactly what you were doing in the second sentence of your post.

That's a prejudicial statement.  Black quarterbacks shouldn't be "seen" as running quarterbacks unless they actually are running quarterbacks.

Again, I think the black quarterbacks in the NFL, which is what we are discussing here, are seen as running threats because, well, 6 of the 7 black starting quarterbacks are top running threats for NFL quarterbacks.  That's not prejudiced.  That's factual.  Go look up the stats if you don't believe it.  Guys like Dak or $cam or Watson, the guys being discussed here, are viewed as running threats because they are in the top 5 of rushing yards by quarterbacks in the NFL.  It's not because of their skin color.  It's because that's what they are, running threat quarterbacks.

[MUBurrow]

I don't think race matters in defining an individual's skillset.  I also don't think it's racist or prejudiced to look at stats and conclude that there is a higher percentage of black quarterbacks towards the top of rushing yards in the NFL.  It's just a fact.  I don't think we need to turn everything into racism.

The first sentence here is the most important part of this conversation, and its the reason the stats in the NFL are what they are. Throughout a player's development, race absolutely plays a huge role in his coach's perception of him, what position he should play, and how he should be used. But wades isn't wrong that by the time players get to the NFL, that train has left the station. The real impact of railroading players into certain positions starts in youth football, into high school and then even into college.

[wadesworld]

The first sentence here is the most important part of this conversation, and its the reason the stats in the NFL are what they are. Throughout a player's development, race absolutely plays a huge role in his coach's perception of him, what position he should play, and how he should be used. But wades isn't wrong that by the time players get to the NFL, that train has left the station. The real impact of railroading players into certain positions starts in youth football, into high school and then even into college.

A good point.

But isn't that also true in all sports, regardless of race?  The tall guy is a center in basketball.  The fat guy is a lineman in football.  Etc.

(Sorry, didn't mean to make this only about men either to anybody that may offend.  The tall person.  The overweight person.)

[4everwarriors]

Eye'm figurin' wee should all look like Waldo. Den no won has an ax ta grind, hey?

[Spotcheck Billy]

Eye'm figurin' wee should all look like Waldo. Den no won has an ax ta grind, hey?

You should all be so fortunate.

[GGGG]

Again, I think the black quarterbacks in the NFL, which is what we are discussing here, are seen as running threats because, well, 6 of the 7 black starting quarterbacks are top running threats for NFL quarterbacks.  That's not prejudiced.  That's factual.  Go look up the stats if you don't believe it.  Guys like Dak or $cam or Watson, the guys being discussed here, are viewed as running threats because they are in the top 5 of rushing yards by quarterbacks in the NFL.  It's not because of their skin color.  It's because that's what they are, running threat quarterbacks.

One last time.

Just because 6 of the 7 leading quaterback rushers are black, that doesn't mean that you should look at a generic black quarterback and label him a running quarterback.

[MU B2002]

[wadesworld]

One last time.

Just because 6 of the 7 leading quaterback rushers are black, that doesn't mean that you should look at a generic black quarterback and label him a running quarterback.

We were looking at $cam Newton. He’s not a generic black quarterback. He’s a quarterback that’s 3rd in rushing yards for quarterbacks and 27th in passing yards. Black or white, he’s more of a rushing threat than most QBs and less of a passing threat.

Then moved on to black NFL QBs. The stats for them are above. White quarterbacks were brought up as well. Other white QBs are running threats as well. Rodgers when healthy. Wentz when healthy. Trubisky.

White, black, orange, yellow. Skin color doesn’t matter. But factually there are more black quarterbacks towards the top of rushing yards for QBs in the NFL. Just a fact.

[GGGG]

We were looking at $cam Newton. He’s not a generic black quarterback. He’s a quarterback that’s 3rd in rushing yards for quarterbacks and 27th in passing yards. Black or white, he’s more of a rushing threat than most QBs and less of a passing threat.

Now you're just shifting goalposts again.  This post doesn't mention Newton nor does quote a post that mentions him.

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=56224.msg1048082#msg1048082

[MUBBau]

This thread got stupid

[wadesworld]

Now you're just shifting goalposts again.  This post doesn't mention Newton nor does quote a post that mentions him.

https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=56224.msg1048082#msg1048082

The entire conversation was about $cam.  If you would like I will edit it and quote the 5 or so posts before it so that you can follow along.

[MU82]

Cam is plenty of a threat as a passer. He was MVP in 2015 not because he ran the ball better than anybody (he did, but he often does) but because he had 35 TD passes and only 10 INTs for a 15-1 team. He led 6 late winning drives that season, not with his feet but with his arm.

When he came into the league, I'm sure most people looked at him as a running QB because he's black (and because he ran a lot at Auburn). Then he put up 422 and 432 passing yards in the very first two games of his rookie season.

In the comeback he led Sunday, he went 17-22 for 201 yards and 2 TDs, and set up another score. Pretty much all with his arm.

Given that he has attempted 3,629 passes in his career vs. 880 rushes, I'd say he is 4x the passing QB he is than a running QB.

But yeah ... he runs it better than anybody.

Three of the greatest all-time running QBs were Steve Young, Fran Tarkenton and Roger Staubach. They were all passing QBs, too.

[Jay Bee]

Everson re-joining the Consensus Vikings

[WarriorDad]

wades' use of $cam is silly, and like most silly things it should be ignored. So I long ago stopped acknowledging it.

Cam has matured a lot over the years. By all accounts, he has learned from his past mistakes, he is a great father to his kids, he is an extremely charitable guy and he is wonderful in this community. His attitude this season has been extraordinary after losses and wins.

By over the years, do you mean 1 year and 18 days? 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cam-newton-response-female-reporter-sparks-controversy/

I like Cam, but thought it unusual your comment while also digging at Machado in the other conversation.