Twitter 3.0

[forgetful]

There is an incentive, keep their very highly paid job.  Again, it’s not some fluffing of Musk to state that many Twitter employees were paid exceptional well for years working for a company that was utterly failing as a business.  Now being asked to make sacrifices and work extra hard/out of the box/different than they did for the last few years to keep that job, that’s not an absurd ask.

Musk’s plan and methods have left a lot to desire, but that doesn’t have to also mean that there wasn’t a bunch of major issues, business and culture wise, at that company that needed to change.   Rebelling against Musk the megalomaniac has a lot of people completely forgetting what a mess Twitter was forever and suddenly making these employees out to be selfless geniuses who were killing it before the new mean boss.

He's creating a toxic culture. Employees that are good at what they do can and will go elsewhere. This is a recipe destined to retain those who can't find another job, a means to retain the employees you actually want to get rid of.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

He's creating a toxic culture. Employees that are good at what they do can and will go elsewhere. This is a recipe destined to retain those who can't find another job, a means to retain the employees you actually want to get rid of.

I actually think there will be a number of younger, talented people that will stick it out because it is a challenge that will look good on a resume. And could be financially rewarding.

We will see.

[🏀]

I actually think there will be a number of younger, talented people that will stick it out because it is a challenge that will look good on a resume. And could be financially rewarding.

We will see.

You clearly don’t know younger people. They don’t like to work, they only want handouts and are over reliant on technology.

[Lennys Tap]

He's creating a toxic culture. Employees that are good at what they do can and will go elsewhere. This is a recipe destined to retain those who can't find another job, a means to retain the employees you actually want to get rid of.

Forgetful

It’s clear you know much more about running a business than Musk. Why not start one and become the world’s richest man?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

You clearly don’t know younger people. They don’t like to work, they only want handouts and are over reliant on technology.

And don't have sex.

[Hards Alumni]

Forgetful

It’s clear you know much more about running a business than Musk. Why not start one and become the world’s richest man?

It'd be hard since forgetful won't get to start with enormous wealth.

Stop licking billionaire's boots.

It's okay to criticize people who are being stupid, and Musk certainly is.

[MU82]

Forgetful

It’s clear you know much more about running a business than Musk. Why not start one and become the world’s richest man?

So, every extremely rich person is perfect and therefore can't be criticized?

[Uncle Rico]

Forgetful

It’s clear you know much more about running a business than Musk. Why not start one and become the world’s richest man?

I work for a company whose culture became wildly toxic over the past 5 years.  Turn over was the largest it ever was.  We turned more employees in the last two years than the previous 20 I was here.  We bought out the cause and fired his underling.  The difference is stark.  And yet, productivity continues unabated.  Also, turnover ceased.  Before these guys came aboard, we were the envy of the business and people applied with us all the time from the competetion.  I actively tried poaching talent.  That ceased the last five years because I wouldn’t wish what was our culture one anyone

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

The culture is already toxic and people are clearly unhappy. The owner of the business is giving an off-ramp to people who don't want to be a part of it any longer, and is laying out the expectations for those who remain. Musk has a reputation for being demanding, but Tesla is supposed to be a good place to work.

Again, I can actually see this improving the culture over time if the people who don't like what Musk is doing just leave.

[lawdog77]

The culture is already toxic and people are clearly unhappy. The owner of the business is giving an off-ramp to people who don't want to be a part of it any longer, and is laying out the expectations for those who remain. Musk has a reputation for being demanding, but Tesla is supposed to be a good place to work.

Again, I can actually see this improving the culture over time if the people who don't like what Musk is doing just leave.

Yes, but it my opinion, this step should have came before the mass layoffs.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

The culture is already toxic and people are clearly unhappy. The owner of the business is giving an off-ramp to people who don't want to be a part of it any longer, and is laying out the expectations for those who remain. Musk has a reputation for being demanding, but Tesla is supposed to be a good place to work.

Again, I can actually see this improving the culture over time if the people who don't like what Musk is doing just leave.

The problem is, as someone else said, he is incenting the talented people to leave and the poor and mediocre to stick around. The only thing working in Musk's favor is that tech darlings are currently shedding jobs, so it isn't quite as easy to job hop in the industry as it was even just 6 months ago.

Nonetheless, the best people are going to have options, the poor ones are going to be anchored to Twitter, making the culture even more challenging and contributing little to actually remaking the company.

[🏀]

Lenny thinks he's a character in Succession.

[jesmu84]

So, every extremely rich person is perfect and therefore can't be criticized?

To a certain segment of the population, a person's wealth is a reflection of their "goodness"

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

The problem is, as someone else said, he is incenting the talented people to leave and the poor and mediocre to stick around. The only thing working in Musk's favor is that tech darlings are currently shedding jobs, so it isn't quite as easy to job hop in the industry as it was even just 6 months ago.

Nonetheless, the best people are going to have options, the poor ones are going to be anchored to Twitter, making the culture even more challenging and contributing little to actually remaking the company.

How is he incenting the talented people to leave?  Talented people don't like to work hard?

And talented people ALWAYS have options - they don't have to rely on a three month severance to find their next gig.

[Pakuni]

How is he incenting the talented people to leave?  Talented people don't like to work hard?

And talented people ALWAYS have options - they don't have to rely on a three month severance to find their next gig.

Talented people with options won't stick around if the inducement to do so is "work more and more intensely for the same pay in this toxic culture I'm building or you're fired" because they view it as a "challenge."
The only people who remain under such circumstances are the ones without options.

Yes, talented people always have options. Which is why making your business the least appealing option doesn't seem to be a solid strategy.
But what do we know? We're not Elon Musk.

[JWags85]

Talented people with options won't stick around if the inducement to do so is "work more and more intensely for the same pay in this toxic culture I'm building or you're fired" because they view it as a "challenge."
The only people who remain under such circumstances are the ones without options.

Yes, talented people always have options. Which is why making your business the least appealing option doesn't seem to be a solid strategy.
But what do we know? We're not Elon Musk.

Couple devils advocate points...

Even before Musk, there was an opinion, amongst Wall St analysts and others, that Twitter had a lot of very well compensated people who were objectively bad at their jobs, that job being creating and running operations for a profitable company.  Twitter was always among the better paying companies in the space despite not having results like others.  So people were being overpaid for underperformance for years, so I don't know if requiring above and beyond performance befitting of their roles and compensation is expecting more work for less pay.  If you're in a normal salaried 9 to 5 making X but only working 20 hours a week, taking 2 hour lunches and new management comes in and says "this company is messed up, everyone is working 40 hours a week, 30 min lunch max till we fix this".  I don't view that as being toxic-ly asked to work more for the same pay. 

Of course anyone who doesn't like it, in either scenario is more than welcome to leave and I could understand why they would.  If the grass is truly greener, remains to be seen.

The other point is that Ive seen a TON of "I love Twitter.  I love the work.  I love the company/product/my job" posts from current or former employees.  Could be a stress test from Musk to see how many people actually do versus just loving the cushy culture at "fun" tech company.  Again, there may be better ways to go about it, but you do need to figure out at some point what you really have talent and buy-in wise when the rubber meets the road.

Ive criticized Musk plenty in here and I don't think he has much of a clue when it comes to actual operational strategy for an app like this.  Not all tech companies are created equal.  Just like incredibly successful and intelligent business people failing miserably when buying a sports franchise or diversifying their brand into a space they know NOTHING about.

That being said, I do find it really amusing that people are acting like, that particular app tech knowledge aside, he doesn't have a track record of pushing and getting the most out of engineering and tech talent and running businesses that require overhauls or completely new ways of doing things.  He needs consiglieres experienced in the space to convert his overall vision or desires into actionable steps within the ways of working for a company like this.

And also, suddenly people are painting Twitter, the company, as some high functioning and efficient utopia that suddenly Musk has cruelly ruined, which is hilarious in and of itself.

[Jockey]

It'd be hard since forgetful won't get to start with enormous wealth.

Stop licking billionaire's boots.

It's okay to criticize people who are being stupid, and Musk certainly is.

C'mon, Hards. Lenny is pulling for another tax cut for these people.

[Pakuni]

That being said, I do find it really amusing that people are acting like, that particular app tech knowledge aside, he doesn't have a track record of pushing and getting the most out of engineering and tech talent and running businesses that require overhauls or completely new ways of doing things.  He needs consiglieres experienced in the space to convert his overall vision or desires into actionable steps within the ways of working for a company like this.


And also, suddenly people are painting Twitter, the company, as some high functioning and efficient utopia that suddenly Musk has cruelly ruined, which is hilarious in and of itself.

The appeal to authority argument here continues to get weaker by the day, but regardless, has anyone actually said or implied either of these things?

Seems to me that the criticism of Musk here and elsewhere has centered entirely around his handling of Twitter. No one is suggesting he hasn't been tremendously successful with some of his other ventures. (Nor, should I note, is anyone raising some of his notable failures).

And I can't recall a single post here - or story I've read online - suggesting Twitter was a high-functioning and efficient anything.

[Jockey]

How is he incenting the talented people to leave?  Talented people don't like to work hard?

By being a total free speech advocate who will not allow free speech to the talented people in his own company?

[Hards Alumni]

By being a total free speech advocate who will not allow free speech to the talented people in his own company?

To be fair, they're free to speak, but are not free of the consequences of their speech.

[JWags85]

The appeal to authority argument here continues to get weaker by the day, but regardless, has anyone actually said or implied either of these things?

Seems to me that the criticism of Musk here and elsewhere has centered entirely around his handling of Twitter. No one is suggesting he hasn't been tremendously successful with some of his other ventures. (Nor, should I note, is anyone raising some of his notable failures).

And I can't recall a single post here - or story I've read online - suggesting Twitter was a high-functioning and efficient anything.

By and large the discussion here (being Scoop) has been reasonable, except maybe implications that he's not actually that smart.  Hence why I didn't quote or call out anything.

Elsewhere, especially on Twitter or the internet?  Absolutely.  There has been a lot of pitying and mewling for Twitter employees in order to crap on Musk.  Why mess with a good thing?  Why couldn't this have been handled with white gloves, not wholesale changes, cause it was all quite good  .I could go and post a bunch of Twitter links but it wouldn't add much to the discussion.  Repeatedly talking about geniuses and "brilliant engineers" that are being done wrong by Musk while Twitter has been around for nearly 20 years, hasnt changed all that much, routinely has severe problems, and never made meaningful profits.

I'm not saying "F them all" but 3 month severance to leave a company that you've contributed to floundering for years isn't some horror story. 

I guess alot of the Musk bashing is the broad brush recency bias that people are all too fond of these days.  You're only as good as your recent efforts.  Coaches with a decade of success are morons who have no clue what they are doing during a bad season.  Politicians are heroes one month, villains the next.  Etc...

[Pakuni]

I'm not saying "F them all" but 3 month severance to leave a company that you've contributed to floundering for years isn't some horror story. 

I'm not sure it's fair or accurate to pin Twitter's struggles on individual employees. In fact, we both know it's not. Twitter's struggles aren't because its employees don't try hard enough or punch out before putting in an 11-hour day. The struggles are largely structural issues and problems inherent in what it does. These issues are far outside the control of 99% of the workforce.

I guess alot of the Musk bashing is the broad brush recency bias that people are all too fond of these days.  You're only as good as your recent efforts.  Coaches with a decade of success are morons who have no clue what they are doing during a bad season.  Politicians are heroes one month, villains the next.  Etc...

Sure.
And a lot of it is because he's a colossal prick.
And the flip side to this, of course, is the undeserved hero worship that comes with financial success.
It may not be a uniquely American affliction, but we're certainly among the world leaders when it comes to conflating wealth with virtue.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

By being a total free speech advocate who will not allow free speech to the talented people in his own company?

Someone doesn't understand how free speech works.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Couple devils advocate points...

Even before Musk, there was an opinion, amongst Wall St analysts and others, that Twitter had a lot of very well compensated people who were objectively bad at their jobs, that job being creating and running operations for a profitable company.  Twitter was always among the better paying companies in the space despite not having results like others.  So people were being overpaid for underperformance for years, so I don't know if requiring above and beyond performance befitting of their roles and compensation is expecting more work for less pay.  If you're in a normal salaried 9 to 5 making X but only working 20 hours a week, taking 2 hour lunches and new management comes in and says "this company is messed up, everyone is working 40 hours a week, 30 min lunch max till we fix this".  I don't view that as being toxic-ly asked to work more for the same pay. 

Of course anyone who doesn't like it, in either scenario is more than welcome to leave and I could understand why they would.  If the grass is truly greener, remains to be seen.

The other point is that Ive seen a TON of "I love Twitter.  I love the work.  I love the company/product/my job" posts from current or former employees.  Could be a stress test from Musk to see how many people actually do versus just loving the cushy culture at "fun" tech company.  Again, there may be better ways to go about it, but you do need to figure out at some point what you really have talent and buy-in wise when the rubber meets the road.

Ive criticized Musk plenty in here and I don't think he has much of a clue when it comes to actual operational strategy for an app like this.  Not all tech companies are created equal.  Just like incredibly successful and intelligent business people failing miserably when buying a sports franchise or diversifying their brand into a space they know NOTHING about.

That being said, I do find it really amusing that people are acting like, that particular app tech knowledge aside, he doesn't have a track record of pushing and getting the most out of engineering and tech talent and running businesses that require overhauls or completely new ways of doing things.  He needs consiglieres experienced in the space to convert his overall vision or desires into actionable steps within the ways of working for a company like this.

And also, suddenly people are painting Twitter, the company, as some high functioning and efficient utopia that suddenly Musk has cruelly ruined, which is hilarious in and of itself.

I think there is near universal agreement that Twitter was underperforming as a company, particularly given the importance (if you will) of the platform. It's why I invested in it after they jettisoned Jack, with the thesis that new management would have more focus on making improvements (spoiler: they didn't).

So everything you are saying about the need to shake up a company that was sort of fat and lazy is true. But it is also equally true that Musk seems to be choosing the worst possible ways to do so, ways that will alienate and jettison the people he most needs, including advertisers.

However, I think you'd have a very difficult time finding anyone painting Twitter as a high functioning and efficient utopia.

[Jockey]

Someone doesn't understand how free speech works.

Your usual drivel.

I never said it was a ‘free speech issue’. I know it makes your comment seem deeper by pretending I did.

My comment was just saying that a guy who is the ultimate free speecher wants to squelch free speech in his own company.