Hong Kong

[#UnleashSean]

Things are getting to spicy for the pepper here.

[withoutbias]

Agree.  But what makes them so smart and successful that they know everything? (Jesmu, tony smith, hards, jockey, etc.)

Me?  I'm just a water boy and part time jizz mopper.

i cant speak for those people i just know for myself that humility means something to me and some posters have proven not to have a lick of it and need to turn absolutely every conversation theyve ever had into a "look what ive done thats so impressive in my life" so when it gets really bad i have a hard time calling stopping myself from them out.

[Goose]

Bias

For being such a good guy, you share take your swipes at anyone that disagree's with you or you dislike. You have zero problem being a dick to anyone or anything that does not match your thoughts. In my world, that is a hypocrite. You should have the same respect for all people that you have for the Starbuck worker.

[withoutbias]

Bias

For being such a good guy, you share take your swipes at anyone that disagree's with you or you dislike. You have zero problem being a dick to anyone or anything that does not match your thoughts. In my world, that is a hypocrite. You should have the same respect for all people that you have for the Starbuck worker.

find me anyone (besides you now) who has claimed im a great guy. i have 0 problem being a dick to people who are dicks. i dont take swipes at people who disagree with me. i take swipes at people who are condescending as hell, regardless of agreeing or disagreeing with any stance i take.

but you are all knowing and i will take your suggestion to heart because we should all aspire to be more like you.

[TinyTimsLittleBrother]

I wonder what all of the clowns that are knocking people that have had business success do for a living?  They all seem so smart, I'll bet they can come up with a lot of funny names on the Starbucks cups that they hand out all day.

I worked for a big Milwaukee manufacturer out of Marquette and even did some work for them in China when it was like the wild west.  Now I work for a couple smaller manufacturers in the area and am enjoying every bit of it.

But anyone who comes here claiming a knowledge of business, and claiming that the current tariffs are a good idea, hasn't seen what those tariffs have done to the bottom line at places like mine. It certainly doesn't help with employment because we have to look long and hard about replacing anyone when we have vacancies.  The costs of doing business have shot up, and our customers will only absorb so much of that.  That isn't a good, long-term situation for our economy and it could get a lot worse before it gets better.

Look at the steel industry. Sure a couple thousand jobs have been added, but it has cost the American consumer something like $900,000 PER JOB!!  How much sense does that make?  We would have been better off cutting a $500,000 check to each of those guys and letting them continue to work at McDonalds.

[MUBurrow]

All good. I do not believe any person, especially a Westerner, could ever be in expert on any topic China related. My comments were based off opinions shared by several long term HK friends. Ironically, they are Hong Kongese and very anti China and have this belief. Crazy that the HK citizens and the China propaganda camp would have same feelings.

Goose, thanks for this - this encapsulates what's so hard for me to understand about this situation (particularly the allegations of protest for pay, etc).  My limited, western-biased understanding of HK is that its basically a small slice of democratic ideals crammed into an otherwise traditional asian (read: Chinese) culture, to form a sort of politically and economically western but culturally eastern haven. [I recognize this is probably 90% wrong, or at least 99% incomplete]

So through that gaze, these protests seem perfectly natural. Combine that with soundbite narrative examples like your friends' perspective as "very anti China" and there's a tension I can't wrap my head around - something like "Yes, HKese are the type of people that would protest like this, but they aren't actually doing it and the protesters that are doing it are being paid."  It seems pretty inevitable that the public position of the protesters - that the Chinese are accelerating the rate they are trying to integrate HK and eliminate its uniqueness - is pretty undeniable? But yet if these protests aren't really coming from the heart, why not?

All very confusing for someone that has enough trouble tracking social-political movements in his own slice of the world. Maybe I should ask if you have any recommended reading to at least help the uninitiated understand the sparknotes version?

[TeamOh]

Guy spends all of his life in Oconomowoc and thinks because he eats fried tofu at the local Jade Garden he knows Asia.

How you say, so stoopee?

You talk about how much you work in Asia yet this is how you talk about them?  YIKES!  I feel bad for the Asian people who have to put up with you.  Given how much you've learned (you even speak the language!) you'd think you'd show some more respect for them.

[wadesworld]

You talk about how much you work in Asia yet this is how you talk about them?  YIKES!  I feel bad for the Asian people who have to put up with you.  Given how much you've learned (you even speak the language!) you'd think you'd show some more respect for them.

I took that as him proving he can speak the language, no?

[Hards Alumni]

jesmu

I saw that others have posted regarding American jobs and going to address that in my reply to you. Not that anyone wants to hear my life story, but going to share a snapshot of it because it relates to American jobs and your post regarding moving our family business to China. We did NOT move our family business (tannery) to China. We lost our company to China, well before anyone cared about China or loss of American jobs. Our customers, Nike, Timberland, Cole Haan, Rockport, etc., moved production to China in a big way in the mid 1990's. For 5-7 years we exported roughly 90% of our production to China. We adapted from shipping goods to Red Wing, MN, Freeport and Dexter MN, to Shenzhen, Dongguan and other Chinese cities in short order. That said, the Chinese ultimately built their tanneries and a large part of MKE tanning history died a painful death, our business was among that group.

I mention all of this because you likely would be hard pressed to find a more pro American job guy than me. We saw thousands of jobs lost in MKE, and a very big part of "old school" MKE economy disappear without one person standing up for our industry. At that time, and still today, I believe that was right decision. It is a global economy and people/companies need to adapt. IMO, my current business (nothing related to tannery or family business) has provided far greater benefit for the American work than harming it.

Again, this addressed to you mainly because of laziness, and wanted to point out that we did not move a family business. In addition, I have always believe the greatness of the American business mind is ability to adapt, invent and find ways to move forward.

Someone on here mentioned  that making money is the ultimate goal for many people or businesses. I believe that is very broad statement that is actually untrue, at least in my experience. My Dad ran a company that employed 95% minority workers and never had a layoff, paid full insurance and made personal financial sacrifices during tough times. In my case, we have grown a small business with a dozen Asian folks working with us. I have experienced more downturns than I ever imagined, but my co-workers in Asia have seen wonderful financial gains in their lives.

Trust me, everyone wants to make money and that is not a bad thing. But, my greatest joy and sense of pride is 100% based off the lives I believe we have helped. In my lifetime I have seen a one family have over 25 family members work at our family business. Today, in Asia we have a husband and wife team and father/daughter team working with us. Not to mention that my oldest son has worked alongside me for nearly a decade. Those are the rewards that drive most small business owners.

Lastly, the world has changed and I likely will never match my Dad's business success (By the way, he was a C student that barely finished high school in 1938). But, I sure hope that I am able to change the lives of a fraction of the lives that he changed.

FYI--I am sure this will have little impact on those that believe in American jobs or business owners only care about making the most money possible. Just wanted to point out that some folks make great sacrifices in life to chase whatever dream they may have. Mine was simple, I wanted to be a business owner like my Dad.

Great story, glad to hear we have similar values regarding small business ethics and values.  Rewards dont always come in the form of paper.

[Pakuni]

some people dont feel the need to be praised for what theyve accomplished in life on muscoop (and everywhere else they go).  others say things like "we dont publish all the good work we do for the less fortunate of the world...BUT WE DONATED MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO THE WELL BEING OF HUMANITY!"  different strokes for different folks.

not to mention ill never make fun of someones work.  everyone needs to do their best to pay their bills.  ive been fortunate enough to have been put in a situation where it was made "easy" for me.  other people have not.  there are people out there who are writing names on a cup at starbucks whose story are much more admirable than mine.  i may make more money than them but some of them are working that job and 2 others just to make ends meet.  they are far harder working than i am.  but hey, theyre just starbucks workers so lets make fun of their worthlessness on this planet.

some people are truly asshats.

[Goose]

MUBrrow

My experience indicates that HKese are a unique group in Asia. My colleagues/friends do not associate themselves with anything Chinese. It is almost like MU/UW type feelings. The Honkies associate far more with Western lifestyle, values and beliefs than they associate with China.

As for the protests, I believe it started from the heart and still may be from the heart. That said, protesting has become a profession for folks in the USA and this situation may be similar. If you want to be amused, try and see all the reasons behind each protest. Three weeks there was a protest in New Territory over Chinese women exercising in park.

I have posted often on this topic often on  Linkedin and believe these protests may end up being the biggest international story of the first 20 years of this century. How China ultimately responds will have a great impact on how big of a story it becomes. I highly recommend that everyone watch this closely and do so with open eyes.

As for media/reading outlets, I am watching Bloomberg, especially in the evenings because they are live from HK and Beijing. Checking  South China Post and googling every day for new info.

[Benny B]

Clapping up a response to ZFB?  Or are you being sarcastic, too?

[Pakuni]

Clapping up a response to ZFB?  Or are you being sarcastic, too?

Clapping up WithoutBias' remarks defending those who work in the service industry.

[Goose]

Pakuni

Do you really think ZFB is bashing service workers? You guys are unreal and always avoid the point of a post. Why don't you or someone in your camp address his question vs. focusing on the service worker comment. There are successful business guys (Not me, I am a work in progress) and they get bashed non stop. Ziggy asked what the "experts" out there do for a living and got crickets in return, only support for a group that needs zero support. It actually speaks volumes, you bash success and feel the need to defend folks that anyone with a brain already respects.

[Hards Alumni]

+1.

Ziggy, respectable people don't need to toot their own horn.  Especially, as often as some do here.  It is indicative of a lack of self awareness; and one whose entire personality is built around bragging is usually a weak person, psychologically speaking.  They rely on admiration from their fellow man to drive them.  Why else mention your accomplishments at all?

[Cheeks]

I worked for a big Milwaukee manufacturer out of Marquette and even did some work for them in China when it was like the wild west.  Now I work for a couple smaller manufacturers in the area and am enjoying every bit of it.

But anyone who comes here claiming a knowledge of business, and claiming that the current tariffs are a good idea, hasn't seen what those tariffs have done to the bottom line at places like mine. It certainly doesn't help with employment because we have to look long and hard about replacing anyone when we have vacancies.  The costs of doing business have shot up, and our customers will only absorb so much of that.  That isn't a good, long-term situation for our economy and it could get a lot worse before it gets better.

Look at the steel industry. Sure a couple thousand jobs have been added, but it has cost the American consumer something like $900,000 PER JOB!!  How much sense does that make?  We would have been better off cutting a $500,000 check to each of those guys and letting them continue to work at McDonalds.

Short term pain, long term gain.  Can not deny we have been crushed by China in trade, that also wasn’t good.  At some point someone said enough, and some industries are thriving as a result, and some are not.  If the pain leads to a better arrangement long term, I am for it.  The question is whether it does or not.  Doing business the old way had plenty of negative outcomes to, just depends what sector one is in.

We got hit with it from a supply chain perspective.  Now new lines being setup outside of China which takes time and money, but it also hurt China and the Chinese company is screaming holy hell to the Chinese govt’ because they are losing so much business.  That’s the pressure being applied and why’s China’s economy has slowed.  Risky bets all around.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

That said, protesting has become a profession for folks in the USA and this situation may be similar. If you want to be amused, try and see all the reasons behind each protest. Three weeks there was a protest in New Territory over Chinese women exercising in park.

Silly reasons aside, IMO the increase in protest is a symptom of 1) governing based on 51% support or less and 2) ease of organization & publicity. 

This isn’t a USA unique comment and not referring to any ‘side’.  I do believe it’s a real problem though.  More consensus/will needs to be allowed back into our governance process. 

[Pakuni]

Pakuni

Do you really think ZFB is bashing service workers? You guys are unreal and always avoid the point of a post. Why don't you or someone in your camp address his question vs. focusing on the service worker comment. There are successful business guys (Not me, I am a work in progress) and they get bashed non stop. Ziggy asked what the "experts" out there do for a living and got crickets in return, only support for a group that needs zero support. It actually speaks volumes, you bash success and feel the need to defend folks that anyone with a brain already respects.

Goose,

ZFB was using "works at Starbucks" as a pejorative. I see no other way to read his remarks. Does he really view people in the service industry as worthless or less valuable than people such as yourself? No idea. You're free to ask him.

Respectfully, could you please point out where in this thread - or any other - I've "bashed success." Sure, I've mocked the pomposity with which some here feel the need to brag of their success. I probably won't stop, either. But the mockery is aimed squarely at the self-aggrandizement and pretense, not whatever accomplishment is being touted.
I would guess most of us here have achieved some level of professional success in our chosen fields - we're Marquette grads, after all. But only a few feel the need to be blowhards about it on a sports message board.

[Its DJOver]

Silly reasons aside, IMO the increase in protest is a symptom of 1) governing based on 51% support or less and 2) ease of organization & publicity. 

This isn’t a USA unique comment and not referring to any ‘side’.  I do believe it’s a real problem though.  More consensus/will needs to be allowed back into our governance process.

Don't tell me you're on your way to Area 51

[D'Lo Brown]

I worked for a big Milwaukee manufacturer out of Marquette and even did some work for them in China when it was like the wild west.  Now I work for a couple smaller manufacturers in the area and am enjoying every bit of it.

But anyone who comes here claiming a knowledge of business, and claiming that the current tariffs are a good idea, hasn't seen what those tariffs have done to the bottom line at places like mine. It certainly doesn't help with employment because we have to look long and hard about replacing anyone when we have vacancies.  The costs of doing business have shot up, and our customers will only absorb so much of that.  That isn't a good, long-term situation for our economy and it could get a lot worse before it gets better.

Look at the steel industry. Sure a couple thousand jobs have been added, but it has cost the American consumer something like $900,000 PER JOB!!  How much sense does that make?  We would have been better off cutting a $500,000 check to each of those guys and letting them continue to work at McDonalds.

Well said.

[Goose]

TinyTim

Just curious, what made it like the "Wild West" to you?

[Cheeks]

You can usually tell if a protest is “sponsored” by the signage.  When there are shiny, printed signs being handed out that were printed weeks and days ahead of said “rising”, it is often artificial at the source and being pushed by interests.  Then you get some people to buy in and it grows, but rarely are protests just happening out of organic blue.  When they are, one can tell the authenticity by who is there and what they bring with them.

Saw a story last year that showed the same group of people (photographed) in one protest after another that were totally disconnected from each other.  That was their job, to protest. 

[Cheeks]

Goose,

ZFB was using "works at Starbucks" as a pejorative. I see no other way to read his remarks. Does he really view people in the service industry as worthless or less valuable than people such as yourself? No idea. You're free to ask him.

Respectfully, could you please point out where in this thread - or any other - I've "bashed success." Sure, I've mocked the pomposity with which some here feel the need to brag of their success. I probably won't stop, either. But the mockery is aimed squarely at the self-aggrandizement and pretense, not whatever accomplishment is being touted.
I would guess most of us here have achieved some level of professional success in our chosen fields - we're Marquette grads, after all. But only a few feel the need to be blowhards about it on a sports message board.

Should CEO’s, actors, athletes be able to make whatever the market pays, regardless if the avg Joe thinks it is obscene?

[Aughnanure]

the nytimes is the fox news of the other side-i wouldn't let my bird chit on it

Oh, so you're just an open proud moron at this point. Please do continue. 

[Benny B]

Goose,

ZFB was using "works at Starbucks" as a pejorative. I see no other way to read his remarks. Does he really view people in the service industry as worthless or less valuable than people such as yourself? No idea. You're free to ask him.

Actually, it's only a pejorative to those who think themselves to be better than service workers.

I'd otherwise suggest you ask your barista if they enjoy their job the next time you're ordering your triple soy cow mocha frappucino, but service workers can sense others' disdain for them better than you know.