Another shooting

[Jockey]

You are an awful person ... the NRA did not kill anyone, the mentally unstable shooter did. 

If the mods had a backbone, they would ban you for this statement.

The NRA (and you) fight very hard to make sure any mentally unstable person can acquire military-grade assault weapons that kill lots of people in just seconds.

You must be proud.

[Jockey]

Holy sh*t...

His post was so sick, I can't even come up with the right words to rebut.

[Tugg Speedman]

The Right: This isn't about guns, it's about a mentally unstable person.

OK, then let's make sure mental health care is easily accessible and affordable for everyone.

The Right: Nah.

So that is the problem ... if psychiatrists would cut their rates this problem goes away?

Are you too so full of hate you see every issue in a left-right prism and blame every problem on those that disagree with your political ideology?

[Tugg Speedman]

His post was so sick, I can't even come up with the right words to rebut.

Becuase you have no answer.  You could buy bombs, machine guns, cannons, and grenades via catalogs until 1934.  Yet we did not have mass carnage problem back then.

But I digress .. continue on your hate-filled "the NRA has blood on its hands."  Becuase that is the true "Holy Sh*t" post.

Hurry and answer before this too is locked.

[Jockey]

Methinks you are using the word "hate" way too often as you argue for the right for anyone to acquire military-grade killing machines.

Maybe if you had bought Apple, you wouldn't feel so miserable.

[Tugg Speedman]

The NRA (and you) fight very hard to make sure any mentally unstable person can acquire military-grade assault weapons that kill lots of people in just seconds.

You must be proud.

How exactly does the NRA do this?  Becuase mental instability is a disqualification for buying a gun, and the NRA agrees with it. 

The shooter (I'm not typing his name) was discharged for Bad Conduct from the Air Force.,  That too also makes him unable to legally buy a gun. The NRA supports this too.

So, you are dead wrong on your facts.

So why don't you wait for facts instead of now accusing me of being proud that this happened?

Again, where are the mods, why is your account still active?

[rocket surgeon]

stories coming out that a guy with a legal conceal and carry permit stopped what could have been worse.  that one gun that so many rail about, just became one valuable piece of equipment in the right hands to potentially save ?? lives-priceless

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/453443/sutherland-texas-good-guy-gun-stops-bad-guy-gun-devin-patrick-kelley

[muwarrior69]

As I've said before, if Sandy Hook didn't change anything I'm not sure what will.

Thoughts and prayers are nice and all but they don't change a damn thing.

This country's inability to do anything about it is pathetic.

I understand your frustration and even if we only allowed 6 shot revolvers, people will still find a way to kill. Timothy McVeigh is a prime example.

[muwarrior69]

Rather than controlling gun sales, a law should be passed that we all wear kevlar vests when groups of people are assembled.

[Tugg Speedman]

I understand your frustration and even if we only allowed 6 shot revolvers, people will still find a way to kill. Timothy McVeigh is a prime example.

... and the terrorist attack in NYC last week.

[jsglow]

There's an interesting quote in that article that rocket posted.

"We have better answers for jihadists and other terrorists than we do for vengeful and evil men who lash out based on purely individual slights, real or imagined."

100% agree and it's one of the things that frustrates me about some of the arguments equating all these incidents.  Solutions need not (in fact cannot) be one size fits all.

[muwarrior69]

White man kills 27 people in a church and the first response in this thread is someone who feels the need to remind everyone that black people shoot people too. Disgusting behavior.

I'm part of the crisis response team at TAMU. We have lots of students from the area of the shooting. Made a lot of calls to students to make sure they and their families are okay. Sending thoughts and prayers.

Let's be clear it is all disgusting.

[jsglow]

Rather than controlling gun sales, a law should be passed that we all wear kevlar vests when groups of people are assembled.

Look, we're all frustrated and I know you were simply expressing your frustration with a little joke.  All good.  But how do we really handle this one?  If it turns out to be true that this individual was barred by existing law from owning or possessing firearms because of past conduct AND was stopped by a good citizen who engaged him with his own legally held weapon, then what?  Now there will be the politically motivated pat answers, sure.  But if we all think about it, that's a problem without any easy solution.  I wish I had one.

[brewcity77]

As I've said before, if Sandy Hook didn't change anything I'm not sure what will.

Thoughts and prayers are nice and all but they don't change a damn thing.

This country's inability to do anything about it is pathetic.

At this point, thoughts and prayers are bullcrap. It's a copout excuse to act like you care when you aren't willing to do a damn thing. Your first line sums it up perfectly. We didn't care when they shot up families in a cinema. We didn't care when they shot up our children at Sandy Hook. We didn't care when they shot up lawmakers Gaby Giffords or Steve Scalise. Why would anyone care when someone shoots up a church?

The simple truth is half this country doesn't care about their fellow citizens. They don't care if people die as long as they have their guns. They don't believe in the Declaration of Independence, which calls for "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" because they patently ignore the "Life" part of it. They don't care.

They will try to say it's not time, they will try to offer BS thoughts and prayers, they will try to turn the discussion away from guns, but the simple, blatant reality is that no other developed country has mass shootings like we do because no other developed country has the unfettered ease of access to guns that we do.

There are two simple sides. The side that cares about American citizens being able to have life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and the side that cares more about their guns than they do any other life, including the lives of their spouses and children. That's just the reality in this country. And anyone offering thoughts and prayers at this time while being unwilling to enact legislation that actually makes a tangible difference is full of dogcrap.

And sorry, but the "people will find a way..." excuse is another line of horsecrap. It's an excuse to avoid the topic of legislating guns and a complete false equivocation. It's another example of someone who doesn't care about American lives as much as they do their guns.

[muwarrior69]

Look, we're all frustrated and I know you were simply expressing your frustration with a little joke.  All good.  But how do we really handle this one?  If it turns out to be true that this individual was barred by existing law from owning or possessing firearms because of past conduct AND was stopped by a good citizen who engaged him with his own legally held weapon, then what?  Now there will be the politically motivated pat answers, sure.  But if we all think about it, that's a problem without any easy solution.  I wish I had one.

I agree.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

I understand your frustration and even if we only allowed 6 shot revolvers, people will still find a way to kill. Timothy McVeigh is a prime example.

With all due respect, I do not accept and cannot stand this thought process.

This individual bought the gun legally. Based on the history that has come out he should not have been able to do so.

If he was only able to obtain a six shot revolver he still would have been able to take lives but not at the scale we saw yesterday. Maybe he drives a vehicle into the church. Does that kill 26 and injure 20?  I highly doubt it.

McVeigh is an outlier. Maybe I'm wrong but I'm highly skeptical that many of the perpetrators that have committed these recent mass shootings, all with AR-15s, would have had the knowledge and patience to successfully construct a bomb of some kind to inflict the same magnitude of damage they so easily did with their weapons.

But if even one life could be saved by different restrictions or laws isn't that well worth it?

There is no perfect solution. It's a mental health issue. It's a gun control issue. This stuff doesn't happen in Canada. It doesn't happen in Japan. It doesn't happen on Britain. This is an American issue and we do nothing and it's unacceptable.

[wadesworld]

At this point, thoughts and prayers are bullcrap. It's a copout excuse to act like you care when you aren't willing to do a damn thing. Your first line sums it up perfectly. We didn't care when they shot up families in a cinema. We didn't care when they shot up our children at Sandy Hook. We didn't care when they shot up lawmakers Gaby Giffords or Steve Scalise. Why would anyone care when someone shoots up a church?

The simple truth is half this country doesn't care about their fellow citizens. They don't care if people die as long as they have their guns. They don't believe in the Declaration of Independence, which calls for "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" because they patently ignore the "Life" part of it. They don't care.

They will try to say it's not time, they will try to offer BS thoughts and prayers, they will try to turn the discussion away from guns, but the simple, blatant reality is that no other developed country has mass shootings like we do because no other developed country has the unfettered ease of access to guns that we do.

There are two simple sides. The side that cares about American citizens being able to have life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and the side that cares more about their guns than they do any other life, including the lives of their spouses and children. That's just the reality in this country. And anyone offering thoughts and prayers at this time while being unwilling to enact legislation that actually makes a tangible difference is full of dogcrap.

And sorry, but the "people will find a way..." excuse is another line of horsecrap. It's an excuse to avoid the topic of legislating guns and a complete false equivocation. It's another example of someone who doesn't care about American lives as much as they do their guns.

Yup.

[wadesworld]

With all due respect, I do not accept and cannot stand this thought process.

This individual bought the gun legally. Based on the history that has come out he should not have been able to do so.

If he was only able to obtain a six shot revolver he still would have been able to take lives but not at the scale we saw yesterday. Maybe he drives a vehicle into the church. Does that kill 26 and injure 20?  I highly doubt it.

McVeigh is an outlier. Maybe I'm wrong but I'm highly skeptical that many of the perpetrators that have committed these recent mass shootings, all with AR-15s, would have had the knowledge and patience to successfully construct a bomb of some kind to inflict the same magnitude of damage they so easily did with their weapons.

But if even one life could be saved by different restrictions or laws isn't that well worth it?

There is no perfect solution. It's a mental health issue. It's a gun control issue. This stuff doesn't happen in Canada. It doesn't happen in Japan. It doesn't happen on Britain. This is an American issue and we do nothing and it's unacceptable.

But don't you know, there aren't mental health issues in any of those countries you listed that don't have these gun problems.  It's not guns, it's people and mental health. 

[GGGG]

You are an awful person ... the NRA did not kill anyone, the mentally unstable shooter did. 

If the mods had a backbone, they would ban you for this statement.

----

so answer this to me.  Here and some mail order catalog ads prior to the gun act of 1934.  Again, the semi-automatic rifle was invented in the 1880s so nothing has changed.  So, yes these 80-year guns look like the guns used today, they have the same lethal capability.  Guns are a century plus technology.

So why did we not have a mass shooting problem prior to 1934?  Why now?  Could it be that society has a mental stability problem? 

This appears to be too hard a question for you as you instead prefer undirected hate at the 47% of the United States that owns guns.

WTF has gotten into you? 

[mu03eng]

At this point, thoughts and prayers are bullcrap. It's a copout excuse to act like you care when you aren't willing to do a damn thing. Your first line sums it up perfectly. We didn't care when they shot up families in a cinema. We didn't care when they shot up our children at Sandy Hook. We didn't care when they shot up lawmakers Gaby Giffords or Steve Scalise. Why would anyone care when someone shoots up a church?

The simple truth is half this country doesn't care about their fellow citizens. They don't care if people die as long as they have their guns. They don't believe in the Declaration of Independence, which calls for "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" because they patently ignore the "Life" part of it. They don't care.

They will try to say it's not time, they will try to offer BS thoughts and prayers, they will try to turn the discussion away from guns, but the simple, blatant reality is that no other developed country has mass shootings like we do because no other developed country has the unfettered ease of access to guns that we do.

There are two simple sides. The side that cares about American citizens being able to have life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and the side that cares more about their guns than they do any other life, including the lives of their spouses and children. That's just the reality in this country. And anyone offering thoughts and prayers at this time while being unwilling to enact legislation that actually makes a tangible difference is full of dogcrap.

And sorry, but the "people will find a way..." excuse is another line of horsecrap. It's an excuse to avoid the topic of legislating guns and a complete false equivocation. It's another example of someone who doesn't care about American lives as much as they do their guns.

So is this a call for a full ban?

[MU82]

But if even one life could be saved by different restrictions or laws isn't that well worth it?

Many of the same people who would argue against this argue for saving "one life" with anti-abortion laws, saving "one life" with xenophobic and arbitrary bans of Muslims from other countries, saving "one life" with most of the ridiculous TSA rules for airlines, etc.

All life is precious ... but the ones saved that have nothing to do with guns seem to be more precious somehow.

Having said that, I agree with glow that sometimes there are no easy solutions. And, in some cases, no solutions at all, really. It's easy for us to toss our ideas out here on an anonymous forum, but to actually enact ideas that will serve the greater good ... much more difficult, if not impossible.

[GooooMarquette]

At this point, thoughts and prayers are bullcrap. It's a copout excuse to act like you care when you aren't willing to do a damn thing. Your first line sums it up perfectly. We didn't care when they shot up families in a cinema. We didn't care when they shot up our children at Sandy Hook. We didn't care when they shot up lawmakers Gaby Giffords or Steve Scalise. Why would anyone care when someone shoots up a church?

The simple truth is half this country doesn't care about their fellow citizens. They don't care if people die as long as they have their guns. They don't believe in the Declaration of Independence, which calls for "Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" because they patently ignore the "Life" part of it. They don't care.

They will try to say it's not time, they will try to offer BS thoughts and prayers, they will try to turn the discussion away from guns, but the simple, blatant reality is that no other developed country has mass shootings like we do because no other developed country has the unfettered ease of access to guns that we do.

There are two simple sides. The side that cares about American citizens being able to have life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and the side that cares more about their guns than they do any other life, including the lives of their spouses and children. That's just the reality in this country. And anyone offering thoughts and prayers at this time while being unwilling to enact legislation that actually makes a tangible difference is full of dogcrap.

And sorry, but the "people will find a way..." excuse is another line of horsecrap. It's an excuse to avoid the topic of legislating guns and a complete false equivocation. It's another example of someone who doesn't care about American lives as much as they do their guns.

Bingo.

[Benny B]

The Right: This isn't about guns, it's about a mentally unstable person.

OK, then let's make sure mental health care is easily accessible and affordable for everyone.

The Right: Nah.

You probably don't know this, but making mental health care easily accessible and affordable offers a solution that's unrelated to the problem.

If you did know, well then trying to capitalize on a tragedy by pushing an unrelated healthcare agenda makes the problem worse.

[jsglow]

Many of the same people who would argue against this argue for saving "one life" with anti-abortion laws, saving "one life" with xenophobic and arbitrary bans of Muslims from other countries, saving "one life" with most of the ridiculous TSA rules for airlines, etc.

All life is precious ... but the ones saved that have nothing to do with guns seem to be more precious somehow.

Having said that, I agree with glow that sometimes there are no easy solutions. And, in some cases, no solutions at all, really. It's easy for us to toss our ideas out here on an anonymous forum, but to actually enact ideas that will serve the greater good ... much more difficult, if not impossible.

82 and I are agreeing here.  From what the governor said, he was denied a Texas gun permit.

Look guys.  Take the defacto default political positions out of it for just a moment.

Vegas? Bump stocks, easy.

Guy from Uzbekistan?  I know some want 'open' borders but c'mon.  Easy.

Sutherland Springs?  I honestly don't know.

Look, it's not a total solution but I really believe that if everyone just backed off a bit in their daily discourse with other people we'd make a dent, even a little one. Maybe then the 1 in 1,000,000 creep who simply can't let anything go, I mean anything, is slightly less inclined to act in the ultimate extreme. 

It happens here on Scoop all the freakin' time.  Never give an inch.  Escalate.  Fight to the last breath.  And then personally attack someone with a different viewpoint.  I personally hate that world.

For grins I was reading the 'Best MU bars' thread from 2007 last night.  It was fun.  It was lively.  Everyone was having a good time.  I miss those days.

Now watch.  Someone will personally attack me for this position or statement.  And my response will simply be to turn off my computer and end my participation in a potentially productive conversation.  And again we accomplish nothing.  It really makes me sad.

[Galway Eagle]

How many people shot in Chicago this past weekend?  Are mass shootings only tragic, or if individual ones happen that tally up are they just as tragic?  The lack of respect for life in this country, born and unborn, is what is truly tragic.

5 dead 24 wounded. What exactly is the point of that post?

Also is nobody going to address the fact that he just compared people who have abortions to those that have caused mass shootings?