Stephen Curry is Insane

[StillAWarrior]

I don't understand this qualification that people throw out there. It makes sense if you are talking about someone like Draymon Green or even why Steve Novak got a contract for 10 years. However, what Steph is able to do is transferable to any basketball era. He is deadly because he doesn't require the space that others do now to create his shot. Steph Curry would score and shoot at this rate regardless of the era, his skill set is that unique.

I think this is one of the times where the "back in my day folks" are just wrong and are looking to protect their legacy.

I think it matters only because in other eras he might not have been given the opportunity to shoot so many threes.  The offenses were different and they would have been looking for different shots.  I have absolutely no doubt Steph would have been just as successful then, but it probably would have been a different success.  I don't think that recognizing that the number of threes he is hitting is affected by his era diminishes him in any way.  I agree with you that people who want to diminish Steph as a player because of his era are off base.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Love those 2 guys.

Best 2 guard and 2nd best PF in the league.

Replace Kevin Love with Draymond and Cleveland would have a chance at the title.

Hahahahahaha, Klay is no where near the 2nd best 2 guard in the league. I wouldn't even put him in the top 5. Take Curry out of that backcourt and Klay wouldn't do nearly as well as he does now. And in case you're curious to who my top 5 are...

Harden
JFB
Wade
Westbrook  (he's not really a PG)
Derozan

[brandx]

Hahahahahaha, Klay is no where near the 2nd best 2 guard in the league. I wouldn't even put him in the top 5. Take Curry out of that backcourt and Klay wouldn't do nearly as well as he does now. And in case you're curious to who my top 5 are...

Harden
JFB
Wade
Westbrook  (he's not really a PG)
Derozan

Basketball experts would disagree. There is a reason that Wiggins was traded for Kevin Love. It is because GS would not trade him.

And the only guy on your list I would take before Klay is Westbrook. Klay is a better shooter than any of the guys on your list and is a very good defensive player as well. Unlike all the others on your list, Klay gets his 24 a game is the context of their open offense. All the others - except for maybe Derozan - need to own the ball all of the time to get numbers.

James Harden is a guard version of Kevin Love in Minnesota.
Wade is old and breaking down.
Jimmy has become selfish.

[JWags85]

Basketball experts would disagree. There is a reason that Wiggins was traded for Kevin Love. It is because GS would not trade him.

And the only guy on your list I would take before Klay is Westbrook. Klay is a better shooter than any of the guys on your list and is a very good defensive player as well. Unlike all the others on your list, Klay gets his 24 a game is the context of their open offense. All the others - except for maybe Derozan - need to own the ball all of the time to get numbers.

I don't know if he's the best 2G in the league, but I definitely think he's almost underrated because he gets overshadowed by Curry's incredible play.  On any other team, Klay's scoring ability and shooting touch would be shocking.

Jimmy has become selfish.

He's basically tied with Rose for the team lead in Assists and has the best A/TO ratio on the team.  Does he look for his shot a lot more now?  Absolutely.  Does he view himself as the alpha dog on the team?  Probably.  Does this make him selfish?  I don't think so.  He's far from Harden or other gunners.

[brandx]

He's basically tied with Rose for the team lead in Assists and has the best A/TO ratio on the team.  Does he look for his shot a lot more now?  Absolutely.  Does he view himself as the alpha dog on the team?  Probably.  Does this make him selfish?  I don't think so.  He's far from Harden or other gunners.

I think the alpha dog conflict between Rose and Butler has caused most of Jimmy's problems. I didn't mean that he or his game are selfish - it is based more on his situation.

[MU82]

Steph Curry would score and shoot at this rate regardless of the era, his skill set is that unique.

I'm already on record saying Steph is amazing and the best shooter I have ever seen.

I will quibble just a tad with the "score at this rate" part of this, though. If Steph played in the era before 3-pointers -- or even in the era before 3-pointers were taken so frequently -- he obviously wouldn't score quite as much.

How much more would West, Goodrich, Monroe, Maravich, etc, have scored if they played in an era in which players were encouraged to take 4, 6, even 10+ 3-pointers per game? Heck, how much more would Bird have scored if the NBA were an outside-in game as it has become?

Not NBA but illustrative of this topic ...

The greatest individual college performance I ever personally witnessed was Scott Skiles scoring 45 for Michigan State at Minnesota in January 1986. At least half of Skiles' shots were from NBA 3-point range, but the Big Ten didn't have 3-pointers that season. It had experimented with it in an earlier season but not that year, and the NCAA didn't officially add the 3-point line until the following season. Skiles would have had 60 points that game and would have added several points to his scoring average that season had there been 3s.

Again, I'm not trying to knock down Steph one iota. I love watching him play.

[mu03eng]

I'm already on record saying Steph is amazing and the best shooter I have ever seen.

I will quibble just a tad with the "score at this rate" part of this, though. If Steph played in the era before 3-pointers -- or even in the era before 3-pointers were taken so frequently -- he obviously wouldn't score quite as much.

How much more would West, Goodrich, Monroe, Maravich, etc, have scored if they played in an era in which players were encouraged to take 4, 6, even 10+ 3-pointers per game? Heck, how much more would Bird have scored if the NBA were an outside-in game as it has become?

Not NBA but illustrative of this topic ...

The greatest individual college performance I ever personally witnessed was Scott Skiles scoring 45 for Michigan State at Minnesota in January 1986. At least half of Skiles' shots were from NBA 3-point range, but the Big Ten didn't have 3-pointers that season. It had experimented with it in an earlier season but not that year, and the NCAA didn't officially add the 3-point line until the following season. Skiles would have had 60 points that game and would have added several points to his scoring average that season had there been 3s.

Again, I'm not trying to knock down Steph one iota. I love watching him play.

It's a fair point and let me clarify/update/be more specific with my comment. I shouldn't have said just "at this rate" I should have said "at this rate relative to the era". Meaing, Steph would be the leading score in any era, but he might not be the absolute scoring leader he is now in another era.

Steph's efficiency translates all eras, he is just a better scorer than anyone else regardless of rules. Considering his 3pt% is near the 2pt% of some all timers in West's day not having a 3pt line wouldn't really matter as much.

Now where this does breakdown(pardon the pun) is the health standpoint. Steph is living in an era where you can grotesquely sprain an ankle and come back and play in 15 minutes and can play at a high level for 15 years before you breakdown. Larry Bird was stopped not because opponents figured him out but because his back got so horrible he was essentially playing with a turtle shell for his last couple of seasons. So could Steph take the beating of the bad boy Pistons or be ready to go two days after an OT game in cardboard sneakers and a bump flight with 4 stops to get from NY to San Fran? That stuff is what makes comparing eras so difficult.

[tower912]

Conversely (ha), after watching all of the Oscar Robertson footage I could find, he never went to his left and there was no such thing as help defense.   Also, the Big O was the same size as Wes Matthews.    The difference is that the guys guarding Robertson were the size of Traci Carter.  So, yes, there are differences in every era.   But to attempt to diminish what Curry is doing right now is a losing fight.    He is off the charts right now. 

[MU82]

It's a fair point and let me clarify/update/be more specific with my comment. I shouldn't have said just "at this rate" I should have said "at this rate relative to the era". Meaing, Steph would be the leading score in any era, but he might not be the absolute scoring leader he is now in another era.

Steph's efficiency translates all eras, he is just a better scorer than anyone else regardless of rules. Considering his 3pt% is near the 2pt% of some all timers in West's day not having a 3pt line wouldn't really matter as much.

Now where this does breakdown(pardon the pun) is the health standpoint. Steph is living in an era where you can grotesquely sprain an ankle and come back and play in 15 minutes and can play at a high level for 15 years before you breakdown. Larry Bird was stopped not because opponents figured him out but because his back got so horrible he was essentially playing with a turtle shell for his last couple of seasons. So could Steph take the beating of the bad boy Pistons or be ready to go two days after an OT game in cardboard sneakers and a bump flight with 4 stops to get from NY to San Fran? That stuff is what makes comparing eras so difficult.

Outstanding points, one and all.

[mu03eng]

Outstanding points, one and all.

[reinko]

Basketball experts would disagree. There is a reason that Wiggins was traded for Kevin Love. It is because GS would not trade him.

And the only guy on your list I would take before Klay is Westbrook. Klay is a better shooter than any of the guys on your list and is a very good defensive player as well. Unlike all the others on your list, Klay gets his 24 a game is the context of their open offense. All the others - except for maybe Derozan - need to own the ball all of the time to get numbers.

James Harden is a guard version of Kevin Love in Minnesota.
Wade is old and breaking down.
Jimmy has become selfish.

Klay is "better",  because he plays with Steph,  which isn't a knock,  it's just a fact.   Klay Thompson on the Bucks vs.  Harden on the Rockets,  it's no question it's Harden.   In a vacuum, I think most folks would think Harden is the better player. Klay is top 5 SG, who plays with #1 PG,  (not to mention Draymond and a top 5 coach).

[GGGG]

Harden is better than Klay Thompson.  Thompson may fit what the Warriors want to do better, but Harden was mentioned for MVP last year and is the top player on his team. 

[wadesworld]

http://screengrabber.deadspin.com/update-every-steph-curry-three-pointer-from-28-feet-t-1761945112

I could watch this for forever.

[brandx]

Harden is better than Klay Thompson.  Thompson may fit what the Warriors want to do better, but Harden was mentioned for MVP last year and is the top player on his team.

Or.... maybe Klay fits into the Warriors style by not doing everything he could (just like Harden in OKC) if he was on a team where he could dominate the ball like Harden does. Klay is a much better player for Golden State than Harden was for OKC.
 

But, Klay obviously has a much lower usage percentage than Harden so we have no way of knowing.

[MerrittsMustache]

Or.... maybe Klay fits into the Warriors style by not doing everything he could (just like Harden in OKC) if he was on a team where he could dominate the ball like Harden does. Klay is a much better player for Golden State than Harden was for OKC.
 
But, Klay obviously has a much lower usage percentage than Harden so we have no way of knowing.

Let's not get carried away. Klay scores more than Harden did in OKC but, other than that, their numbers are pretty similar despite Harden's lower usage and nearly 7 fewer min/gm.


Harden's 3 years in OKC
26.7 min
12.7 ppg
FGA: 8.6
PPS: 1.48
FG%: 44.4
3P%: 37.0
TS%: .605
Reb: 3.4
Ast: 2.5
Stl: 1.1
TO: 1.6
17.2 PER
USG% 20.4
WS: 21.0
WS/48: .171
VORP: 6.9


Klay's last 3 seasons (includes this season)
33.5 min
20.5 ppg
FGA: 16.4
PPS: 1.15
FG%: 45.7
3P%: 42.3
TS%: .579
Reb: 3.3
Ast: 2.5
Stl: 0.9
TO: 1.8
17.5 PER
USG% 25.3
WS: 21.2
WS/48: .141
VORP: 6.0

[MU82]

Y'all do know that Thompson is an excellent defender and a very good team player while Harden is a classic me-first scorer who could give a rat's rump about defense.

I am guessing that many, many NBA coaches/GMs would take Thompson over Harden, especially if they already had another scorer on the team. I am 99% certain the Warriors wouldn't trade Thompson straight-up for Harden.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Y'all do know that Thompson is an excellent defender and a very good team player while Harden is a classic me-first scorer who could give a rat's rump about defense.

I am guessing that many, many NBA coaches/GMs would take Thompson over Harden, especially if they already had another scorer on the team. I am 99% certain the Warriors wouldn't trade Thompson straight-up for Harden.

Your right because they already have Curry to take that many shots. Look at Thompsons performance last night without Curry. His shooting percentage was dreadful and took as many shots as Harden would any given night. He's no where near the player he is with Curry playing right next to him.

[MerrittsMustache]

Y'all do know that Thompson is an excellent defender and a very good team player while Harden is a classic me-first scorer who could give a rat's rump about defense.

I am guessing that many, many NBA coaches/GMs would take Thompson over Harden, especially if they already had another scorer on the team. I am 99% certain the Warriors wouldn't trade Thompson straight-up for Harden.

I can't argue with any of that. However, none of it means Thompson is a better player than Harden.

Thompson fits perfectly in the Warriors' system. Harden wouldn't. That's why GS wouldn't make the trade. I doubt Houston would make it either. Thompson's a #2 guy. Harden is an alpha.

Prior to this season, NBA GMs voted James Harden the best SG in the NBA over Thompson (79.3% to 10.9% - Harden's % went up from 63% in '14-'15).

http://www.nba.com/news/features/john_schuhmann/nba-com-2015-16-gm-survey/

[reinko]

Y'all do know that Thompson is an excellent defender and a very good team player while Harden is a classic me-first scorer who could give a rat's rump about defense.

I am guessing that many, many NBA coaches/GMs would take Thompson over Harden, especially if they already had another scorer on the team. I am 99% certain the Warriors wouldn't trade Thompson straight-up for Harden.

You're right GSW wouldn't trade him, and right Klay is a very capable defender (much better than JH).

Harden with 3 All NBA team made (2 of which were first team), the player who has higher averages in every statistical offensive category (points, steals, blocks, assists) tips the scales for me.  And yes, the me first mentality is popular with Harden, but without looking, have an idea how many assists per game Klay averages, vs. Harden...it's stunning.

Agree to disagree my friend!

[brandx]

I can't argue with any of that. However, none of it means Thompson is a better player than Harden.

Thompson fits perfectly in the Warriors' system. Harden wouldn't. That's why GS wouldn't make the trade. I doubt Houston would make it either. Thompson's a #2 guy. Harden is an alpha.

Prior to this season, NBA GMs voted James Harden the best SG in the NBA over Thompson (79.3% to 10.9% - Harden's % went up from 63% in '14-'15).

http://www.nba.com/news/features/john_schuhmann/nba-com-2015-16-gm-survey/

Just my opinion on Klay. I fully understand the people that side with Harden. He is a great offensive player. But if you want to run an offense like GS or SA - the two dominant teams in the league - you want Klay, not Harden. There was a reason that Klay was the 1st choice of the Cavs (not Kevin Love) when they were looking to trade Wiggins.

If you are one of the teams that's always around .500 every year, you would take harden in a second. Harden is a lot closer to Carmelo than he is to Steph.

[MU82]

You're right GSW wouldn't trade him, and right Klay is a very capable defender (much better than JH).

Harden with 3 All NBA team made (2 of which were first team), the player who has higher averages in every statistical offensive category (points, steals, blocks, assists) tips the scales for me.  And yes, the me first mentality is popular with Harden, but without looking, have an idea how many assists per game Klay averages, vs. Harden...it's stunning.

Agree to disagree my friend!

I disagree that we actually disagree much!

I wasn't saying Klay is the better player. I'm saying that a lot of GMs would opt for Thompson and the Warriors certainly would just because of the way Thompson might fit a team's personnel and personality.

Harden obviously has superior offensive numbers across the board.

[brandx]

Your right because they already have Curry to take that many shots. Look at Thompsons performance last night without Curry. His shooting percentage was dreadful and took as many shots as Harden would any given night. He's no where near the player he is with Curry playing right next to him.

Curry is not a gunner by any means, nor does he dominate the ball like Harden or Rose. He takes less than 1 more shot than Klay every twelve minutes.

[MerrittsMustache]

Curry is not a gunner by any means, nor does he dominate the ball like Harden or Rose. He takes less than 1 more shot than Klay every twelve minutes.

Averages
Curry: 33.9 min, 20.0 FGA, USG% 32.7, Per 36 min: 21.3 FGA

Harden: 37.7 min, 19.5 FGA, USG% 32.7, Per 36 min: 18.6 FGA

Thompson: 33.1 min, 17.0 FGA, USG% 26.3, Per 36 min: 18.5 FGA

[brandx]

Averages
Curry: 33.9 min, 20.0 FGA, USG% 32.7, Per 36 min: 21.3 FGA

Harden: 37.7 min, 19.5 FGA, USG% 32.7, Per 36 min: 18.6 FGA

Thompson: 33.1 min, 17.0 FGA, USG% 26.3, Per 36 min: 18.5 FGA

So it is 1 shot less per 12 minutes for Klay.


My whole point here was not to disparage Harden - he is a great player. Based on the NBA game of 5 years ago or even 3 years ago, I would have said Harden was a much better player. But the game has changed.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

So it is 1 shot less per 12 minutes for Klay.


My whole point here was not to disparage Harden - he is a great player. Based on the NBA game of 5 years ago or even 3 years ago, I would have said Harden was a much better player. But the game has changed.

I would love to see Klay play a full season with Patrick Beverly as his starting point guard.