MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Mr. Sand-Knit on March 12, 2018, 12:45:22 PM
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There seems to be alot of complaints and angst towards Wojo. I dont think they are completely unwarranted considered it is year 4.
However, in his defense year 4 sounds longer than it is given his particular situation.
In year 1, Wojo was truly left with nothing. This situation was no way similar to the hand Buzz was dealt in year 1.
Then Wojo basically lost a year in what has occurred with his class that would be juniors this year. I firmly believe if we had tracy Carter and Cheatam on this team that we would be in the NCaas. Not only would they have brought maturity they would gave brought better perimeter defense which was our achilles heel.
Whether Wojo deserves a pass for basically losing the entire junior class or not i dont know. But his roster is not what he or anyone would hope for in year 4. The whole Elkenson issue was a mess n i dont even follow the guy. Additionally he wouldnt be here any way so thats a non issue. Nevertheless, if we were a little older with carter n cheatum i think the results are different.
So the real qwestion is was this just really bad luck or is Wojo the type of coach that cant keep players around?
For a school like MU to be truly good we need to get old n stay old. If Wojo is going to lose 3/4 of classes this is going to be impossible to do.
So i will give Wojo a pass to this point, however his ability to recruit and keep talent will determine how his story at MU ends. Collections of freshman and sophomores playing in Power 6 conferences with next to no junior or senior classes play innthe NIT or no tourney whatsoever (Unless ur Duke,UK, etc). Thats just the way it is. Get old n stay old Wojo, or hit the road. I hope he is incredibly successful in doing this.
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Lets see if he can get a full class to the junior year. He's basically already lost Froling.
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Lets see if he can get a full class to the junior year. He's basically already lost Froling.
About 40 percent of players transfer by the end of their sophomore season.
More than 800 kids transferred last year.
So, pretty much nobody gets a full class to the junior year.
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The complaining is coming from the same people over and over again. I'm not sure your viewpoint represents the Marquette basketball community.
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Lets see if he can get a full class to the junior year. He's basically already lost Froling.
Why? Because some Australian blogger said he may leave? Froling may transfer or he may go back to Australia, but there is no real indication that is going to happen other than pure speculation.
He did play in the Depaul game at MSG, which I don't believe he would have if Wojo knew he was gone.
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About 40 percent of players transfer by the end of their sophomore season.
More than 800 kids transferred last year.
So, pretty much nobody gets a full class to the junior year.
I truly believe that this follows a cycle at most programs. Because Sandy, Traci, and Hanni never finished their Junior year, minutes became available to the current Freshman. Because they got a lot of minutes as Freshman, they (in theory) develop faster. Thus, when they are Juniors and Seniors, there will be far fewer minutes for Freshman 2-3 years from now, they will get unhappy and be more likely to transfer.
How many programs other than the Dukes and Kentucky's of the world can say that they had 2 true freshman average 15+ minutes, another true freshman average 10+ minutes, and a redshirt sophomore average 25+ minutes. Of those 4, only Sacar's minutes have a chance of going down, and even though I expect Matt will still start next year. Theo should be getting 20+ minutes in 18-19. This creates fewer minutes for next years incoming class, and the followings years. Being able to convince young players that they will develop into starters/studs when they're upper classmen is an area that is underestimated in coaching. This was probably the first time in Greg and Jamals life that they weren't head and shoulders above everyone athletically.
EDIT: I expect Joey to be good enough to get minutes, I just don't see Brendan or Ike getting on the court unless they're playing with Cam in garbage time, same can be said for any 19-20 non PG.
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Lets see if he can get a full class to the junior year. He's basically already lost Froling.
With this, do you see him getting playing time during the NIT.
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The complaining is coming from the same people over and over again. I'm not sure your viewpoint represents the Marquette basketball community.
It pretty well represents mine. What, pray tell, do you think the MU BB Community thinks, and who makes up this community that I am apparently so far removed from?
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Why? Because some Australian blogger said he may leave? Froling may transfer or he may go back to Australia, but there is no real indication that is going to happen other than pure speculation.
He did play in the Depaul game at MSG, which I don't believe he would have if Wojo knew he was gone.
In the last 7 games hes achieved 3 DNP's and 18 total minutes. He has a Junior (Who I believe he is far better then) and a Freshman center in front of him, along with 2 more players who can play the exact same position as him coming in next year. He's not going to stay.
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The complaining is coming from the same people over and over again. I'm not sure your viewpoint represents the Marquette basketball community.
From the bars before/after game time, and the season ticket holders grumblings near me during games. His view is fairly accurate of the majority I've witnessed.
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There seems to be alot of complaints and angst towards Wojo. I dont think they are completely unwarranted considered it is year 4.
However, in his defense year 4 sounds longer than it is given his particular situation.
In year 1, Wojo was truly left with nothing. This situation was no way similar to the hand Buzz was dealt in year 1.
Agreed! Don't forget that Buzz was also on Crean's staff the season before (as his #1 assistant if I recall correctly) which provided at least some continuity in that the rising sophs, Jr's and Sr's were already familiar with him.
Also agree about the importance of growing old. I think we've seen everything we're going to see from Sam and Markus which is fine, because they're already solid high major contributors, but it will be interesting to see how the current crop of freshman develop. If they all progress similarly to how Sacar did this year, we have nothing to worry about. I think we can all agree that Sacar progressed nicely this season. Now he just needs to work on his outside shot with Coach Nelson over the summer. If Coach Nelson can do for Sacar's outside shot what he did for JJJ's between his Junior and Senior seasons, we'll be in decent shape.
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Agreed! Don't forget that Buzz was also on Crean's staff the season before (as his #1 assistant if I recall correctly) which provided at least some continuity in that the rising sophs, Jr's and Sr's were already familiar with him.
Also agree about the importance of growing old. I think we've seen everything we're going to see from Sam and Markus which is fine, because they're already solid high major contributors, but it will be interesting to see how the current crop of freshman develop. If they all progress similarly to how Sacar did this year, we have nothing to worry about. I think we can all agree that Sacar progressed nicely this season. Now he just needs to work on his outside shot with Coach Nelson over the summer. If Coach Nelson can do for Sacar's outside shot what he did for JJJ's between his Junior and Senior seasons, we'll be in decent shape.
I was thinking that Sacar should head out West to the Desmond Howard training camp and be on his regiment. I've heard that he only accepts 2 applicants every year, but Sacar might know someone that could get him in.
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About 40 percent of players transfer by the end of their sophomore season.
More than 800 kids transferred last year.
So, pretty much nobody gets a full class to the junior year.
Omg
I hope this whole post does not devolve along this moot point!!😡. Clearly the issue as i stated was him losing 75%!!, had he lost only the one player, as was also clearly stated, i think we would be in the tourney.
Mind boggling
If Wojo can bring 4 players in each year and we can lose 40% or less of them we can get old n stay old.
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In the last 7 games hes achieved 3 DNP's and 18 total minutes. He has a Junior (Who I believe he is far better then) and a Freshman center in front of him, along with 2 more players who can play the exact same position as him coming in next year. He's not going to stay.
Awfully confident statement. If the kid is so convinced he'll never see the court, he probably should leave. I am not quite as convinced. Not every kid plays major minutes as an underclassman. Big men take time to develop. He could still carve out a role. But if he intent on quitting, then I guess I'd prefer he not be here anyway. But I am far from convinced that is the case.
Transferring makes zero sense for him, so he would need to be prepared to leave the United States and stop going to college if he wants to continue playing basketball, which he undoubtedly does. This is a guy that has had verbalized NBA aspirations - me thinks he doesn't necessarily think all the guys you mentioned are better than him.
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From the bars before/after game time, and the season ticket holders grumblings near me during games. His view is fairly accurate of the majority I've witnessed.
I'm on 3 different text strings about MU hoops. In total 11 different MU grads from the 90's & 00's. All are very frustrated and none are yet sold on Wojo. Of them 7 are season ticket holders. A handful of them have attended multiple B&G auctions / tip-off luncheons / private STH practices etc (ie engaged fans).
I tend to find scoop a haven for positive thought compared to my conversations with my "real world" friends. I don't know about you but I don't come across nearly the amount of optimism in real life as I do here. It's one of the reasons I keep coming back to scoop. It provides me some hope.
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Awfully confident statement. If the kid is so convinced he'll never see the court, he probably should leave. I am not quite as convinced. Not every kid plays major minutes as an underclassman. Big men take time to develop. He could still carve out a role. But if he intent on quitting, then I guess I'd prefer he not be here anyway. But I am far from convinced that is the case.
Transferring makes zero sense for him, so he would need to be prepared to leave the United States and stop going to college if he wants to continue playing basketball, which he undoubtedly does. This is a guy that has had verbalized NBA aspirations - me thinks he doesn't necessarily think all the guys you mentioned are better than him.
Exactly, he has said he wants to play in the NBA. Finishing college at MU is his only chance of that. Looking at the minutes for center, I would hope Matt doesn't scare him, and Theo is still pretty raw IMO. There are certainly still big minutes to be won. We have 3 center and none of them have set the world on fire so I would anticipate a great deal of competition.
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About 40 percent of players transfer by the end of their sophomore season.
More than 800 kids transferred last year.
So, pretty much nobody gets a full class to the junior year.
Does this change based on the size/caliber of program? I can see why guys would want to leave for greener pastures, like Rowsey did, but I doubt as many guys are leaving power 6 schools.
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Awfully confident statement. If the kid is so convinced he'll never see the court, he probably should leave. I am not quite as convinced. Not every kid plays major minutes as an underclassman. Big men take time to develop. He could still carve out a role. But if he intent on quitting, then I guess I'd prefer he not be here anyway. But I am far from convinced that is the case.
Transferring makes zero sense for him, so he would need to be prepared to leave the United States and stop going to college if he wants to continue playing basketball, which he undoubtedly does. This is a guy that has had verbalized NBA aspirations - me thinks he doesn't necessarily think all the guys you mentioned are better than him.
What was the context of him talking about playing pro? I feel like most players, especially younger guys, talk about wanting to play in the league, even if they don't have much of a chance. I guess I just don't think that a guy saying he wants to be in the NBA carries much weight.
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Wojo must go. He is simply not getting it done.
Fire Wojo!!!!
Make Marquette basketball great again!
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Does this change based on the size/caliber of program? I can see why guys would want to leave for greener pastures, like Rowsey did, but I doubt as many guys are leaving power 6 schools.
Power 6 programs that had multiple players transfer last year:
Duke
Pitt (wonder why?)
Virginia
Providence
St. John's
Maryland
Nebraska
Penn State
Rutgers
Oklahoma
Arizona State
Cal
Colorado
Oregon
Utah
Alabama
Missouri
Mississippi
Texas A&M
25 other Power 6 programs had one transfer.
So, of 76 P6 programs, 25 percent had multiple transfers and 58 percent had at least one kid leave.
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From the bars before/after game time, and the season ticket holders grumblings near me during games. His view is fairly accurate of the majority I've witnessed.
I said the view of the basketball community , not the bar community. In 1977 the Warriors lost three straight games to De Paul, Detroit and Wichita State. There were so called fans calling for Al to be replaced. Good thing we didn't have a message board then.
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I said the view of the basketball community , not the bar community. In 1977 the Warriors lost three straight games to De Paul, Detroit and Wichita State. There were so called fans calling for Al to be replaced. Good thing we didn't have a message board then.
I must have forgotten that no one who goes to Marquette games ever sets foot in a bar. ::) ::)
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Power 6 programs that had multiple players transfer last year:
Duke
Pitt (wonder why?)
Virginia
Providence
St. John's
Maryland
Nebraska
Penn State
Rutgers
Oklahoma
Arizona State
Cal
Colorado
Oregon
Utah
Alabama
Missouri
Mississippi
Texas A&M
Since there are only 19 teams listed here out of the 74 total, I would take that to show that power 6 schools are less affected by transfers since the national average is roughly 2 per team.
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Agreed! Don't forget that Buzz was also on Crean's staff the season before (as his #1 assistant if I recall correctly) which provided at least some continuity in that the rising sophs, Jr's and Sr's were already familiar with him.
Also agree about the importance of growing old. I think we've seen everything we're going to see from Sam and Markus which is fine, because they're already solid high major contributors, but it will be interesting to see how the current crop of freshman develop. If they all progress similarly to how Sacar did this year, we have nothing to worry about. I think we can all agree that Sacar progressed nicely this season. Now he just needs to work on his outside shot with Coach Nelson over the summer. If Coach Nelson can do for Sacar's outside shot what he did for JJJ's between his Junior and Senior seasons, we'll be in decent shape.
One of the most, if not the most, absurd statements I've ever read on Scoop.
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What was the context of him talking about playing pro? I feel like most players, especially younger guys, talk about wanting to play in the league, even if they don't have much of a chance. I guess I just don't think that a guy saying he wants to be in the NBA carries much weight.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHwDovrzKZQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHwDovrzKZQ)
This is the interview I was specifically referring to (he discusses his NBA prospects throughout but directly answers a question about it around the 7 minute mark). I've heard him mention it other places as well.
I agree - most guys who play high major D1 hopes have NBA aspirations. The vast majority of them will never play a minute in the NBA. But Harry has already sort of backed himself in a corner with a mid year transfer. He cannot transfer again without burning another full year of eligibility, and leaving to go back to Australia would pretty much kill any chances he has of ever making the NBA (and forfeit a free education). I guess I wouldn't be surprised if he left, but I think he'll stay. I also think he could be a pretty good player for us as a senior.
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Exactly, he has said he wants to play in the NBA. Finishing college at MU is his only chance of that. Looking at the minutes for center, I would hope Matt doesn't scare him, and Theo is still pretty raw IMO. There are certainly still big minutes to be won. We have 3 center and none of them have set the world on fire so I would anticipate a great deal of competition.
How in this universe does Harry Froling believe he has a chance to play in the NBA. Seriously, he is currently third string behind a Matt Heldt and a learning freshman in Theo John. He would not be a starting center on any BE team and after watching him play this year, he may be a second team guy on a mid major team.
I agree there are minutes to be had at the center position, but Harry is going to have to do a complete 180 just to get past MU's current guys.
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I said the view of the basketball community , not the bar community. In 1977 the Warriors lost three straight games to De Paul, Detroit and Wichita State. There were so called fans calling for Al to be replaced. Good thing we didn't have a message board then.
Again, who is in this mysterious "basketball community?" Also, I seem to remember Al announcing his retirement during the season to go to Medalist.
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How in this universe does Harry Froling believe he has a chance to play in the NBA. Seriously, he is currently third string behind a Matt Heldt and a learning freshman in Theo John. He would not be a starting center on any BE team and after watching him play this year, he may be a second team guy on a mid major team.
I agree there are minutes to be had at the center position, but Harry is going to have to do a complete 180 just to get past MU's current guys.
I didn't say that he does. I said he he has said he wants to. If that is still the case, MU is his only option. Bigs develop at a different rate, I would say that Matt is almost at his ceiling, and that's OK, no one expected Matt to be great. Theo has the body, but is not as smart as Matt or Harry IMO. Harry is probably the worst defender out of the three of them, but has a different skillset offensively. I didn't say it was going to be easy, but there are minutes to be earned if he puts in the work and deserves them.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHwDovrzKZQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHwDovrzKZQ)
This is the interview I was specifically referring to (he discusses his NBA prospects throughout but directly answers a question about it around the 7 minute mark). I've heard him mention it other places as well.
Thanks for the link. I think Harry probably had a real expectation of being able to compete for a spot on an NBA roster 4-5 years out from when that interview took place. Given his background and the level of competition he was playing against, it makes total sense. You've got to think that the last 2 years have not gone according to plan, though, and he's probably now weighing his options in the NBL. I don't know if that means he's weighing them right now, or if that's 2 years out, but the NBL seems more likely than the NBA at this point.
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The complaining is coming from the same people over and over again. I'm not sure your viewpoint represents the Marquette basketball community.
I can tell you all my alum friends are not drinking the cool aid. The jury is out on Wojo but time is not on his side.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHwDovrzKZQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHwDovrzKZQ)
This is the interview I was specifically referring to (he discusses his NBA prospects throughout but directly answers a question about it around the 7 minute mark). I've heard him mention it other places as well.
I agree - most guys who play high major D1 hopes have NBA aspirations. The vast majority of them will never play a minute in the NBA. But Harry has already sort of backed himself in a corner with a mid year transfer. He cannot transfer again without burning another full year of eligibility, and leaving to go back to Australia would pretty much kill any chances he has of ever making the NBA (and forfeit a free education). I guess I wouldn't be surprised if he left, but I think he'll stay. I also think he could be a pretty good player for us as a senior.
Yes, he can. He has two years of eligibility left. If he transfers, he has to sit out a year, but he will have two years of eligibility left. OTOH, He has played very, very little in competitive games for 2 years now and it does seem unlikely that he'd want to sit next year. You can read that as he won't want to stay if he doesn't think he is going to play a lot next year or that he won't want to leave for another school because he won't play the whole season. I have no idea what he'll do. I think if he does leave he will most likely be going somewhere where he will play, and that by definition won't be Div I NCAA basketball.
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I didn't say that he does. I said he he has said he wants to. If that is still the case, MU is his only option. Bigs develop at a different rate, I would say that Matt is almost at his ceiling, and that's OK, no one expected Matt to be great. Theo has the body, but is not as smart as Matt or Harry IMO. Harry is probably the worst defender out of the three of them, but has a different skillset offensively. I didn't say it was going to be easy, but there are minutes to be earned if he puts in the work and deserves them.
Again, slow down, read what I wrote. Never said you said. I agree with what you said, HARRY said. My argument is his expectations to be a member of the NBA, and these expectations at this point are unattainable. He is a third string center right now. I hope he realizes there are Burger Boys out there who not even close to making the big league. Harry is a member of MU team, so I'll root him on and hope he does well, but he needs a lot, a lot of work.
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Exactly, he has said he wants to play in the NBA. Finishing college at MU is his only chance of that. Looking at the minutes for center, I would hope Matt doesn't scare him, and Theo is still pretty raw IMO. There are certainly still big minutes to be won. We have 3 center and none of them have set the world on fire so I would anticipate a great deal of competition.
The opportunity is prolly more available to Harry tgan at about any power 6 school in the country. The issue with Harry has not been lack of opportunity it has been what he has been able to do with it. Its there will he, can he take advantage of it?
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Again, slow down, read what I wrote. Never said you said. I agree with what you said, HARRY said. My argument is his expectations to be a member of the NBA, and these expectations at this point are unattainable. He is a third string center right now. I hope he realizes there are Burger Boys out there who not even close to making the big league. Harry is a member of MU team, so I'll root him on and hope he does well, but he needs a lot, a lot of work.
I read what you wrote and it sounds like we're in agreement. Hope he stays, but has a lot of work to do to even be the starting center, much less a NBA prospect.
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Yes, he can. He has two years of eligibility left. If he transfers, he has to sit out a year, but he will have two years of eligibility left. OTOH, He has played very, very little in competitive games for 2 years now and it does seem unlikely that he'd want to sit next year. You can read that as he won't want to stay if he doesn't think he is going to play a lot next year or that he won't want to leave for another school because he won't play the whole season. I have no idea what he'll do. I think if he does leave he will most likely be going somewhere where he will play, and that by definition won't be Div I NCAA basketball.
This is correct. Thanks for correction.
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Since there are only 19 teams listed here out of the 74 total, I would take that to show that power 6 schools are less affected by transfers since the national average is roughly 2 per team.
No, these are the 19 power conference teams that had TWO OR MORE transfers last year. Another 25 P6 teams had one transfer. So, 44 of 76 teams had a transfer.
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No, these are the 19 power conference teams that had TWO OR MORE transfers last year. Another 25 P6 teams had one transfer. So, 44 of 76 teams had a transfer.
But the national average is about 2 guys per year. And you showed that only 19 of the power 6 schools had more than one. So my conclusion from that is that power 6 schools lose fewer players to transfers because only 25% of power 6 schools lose players at a rate equal to the national average.
If you look at the total number of P6 transfers, the average is less than 1 transfer per school in the power 6, assuming most of the schools in the multi-transfer list only lost 2 players to transfer. If that group's average comes out to 3 players per team, then the power 6 would average just over 1 player per school, but even that is still well below the national average.
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I didn't say that he does. I said he he has said he wants to. If that is still the case, MU is his only option. Bigs develop at a different rate, I would say that Matt is almost at his ceiling, and that's OK, no one expected Matt to be great. Theo has the body, but is not as smart as Matt or Harry IMO. Harry is probably the worst defender out of the three of them, but has a different skillset offensively. I didn't say it was going to be easy, but there are minutes to be earned if he puts in the work and deserves them.
I see your one of those "traditionals" ::)
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I see your one of those "traditionals" ::)
I love Theo, and love that he is the best shot blocker of the three, but when he goes for it every time, if he misses his man gets an offense rebound and easy put back. Matt is the smartest in this category IMO, and honestly I don't think Harry is athletic enough to be a shot blocker. When Theo learns when he can get a block and when he should just box out he will be so much better. He has started to figure out that he should never give up and and one, something that no one else had, If he's gonna get burned he gotta be able to get his money's worth.
Understand what you were saying, just wanted to give a little big man analysis for what it's worth.
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I said the view of the basketball community , not the bar community. In 1977 the Warriors lost three straight games to De Paul, Detroit and Wichita State. There were so called fans calling for Al to be replaced. Good thing we didn't have a message board then.
Al was replaced. Just sayin'
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1 a year aint gonna hurt us. Any study will also show 95% of transfers are do to lack of playing time. So essentially losing 1 player a yr that sees the writing on the wall is not detrimental. The issue MU is dealing with right now is that we lost 3/4 of Wojos first class and the 3 were the best players in the class. So instead of having strong jun, soph, n freshman classes this yr striving for ncaas we had a strong fresh n soph class attempting to do that... aint gonna happen.
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I said the view of the basketball community , not the bar community. In 1977 the Warriors lost three straight games to De Paul, Detroit and Wichita State. There were so called fans calling for Al to be replaced. Good thing we didn't have a message board then.
Al announced he was retiring in December, prior to the games you cited. You might want to have your facts straight.
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But the national average is about 2 guys per year. And you showed that only 19 of the power 6 schools had more than one. So my conclusion from that is that power 6 schools lose fewer players to transfers because only 25% of power 6 schools lose players at a rate equal to the national average.
When I say some of those P6 schools lost "two or more," that means some lost more than two. Some lost three (e.g. Virginia, Alabama, Penn State, Rutgers). Nebraska lost four. Pitt lost five.
I'm not interested in doing the math, so maybe P6 schools see slightly fewer transfers (and way more kids leaving early for the pros) than mid-majors and low majors, but I'm not sure what you're getting at.
If there's a difference, it's not a huge one ... certainly not a 3-to-1 ratio.
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When I say some of those P6 schools lost "two or more," that means some lost more than two. Some lost three (e.g. Virginia, Alabama, Penn State, Rutgers). Nebraska lost four. Pitt lost five.
I'm not interested in doing the math, so maybe P6 schools see slightly fewer transfers (and way more kids leaving early for the pros) than mid-majors and low majors, but I'm not sure what you're getting at.
If there's a difference, it's not a huge one ... certainly not a 3-to-1 ratio.
If you read the rest of my post, I addressed the more than 2 scenario. If the national average is close to 2, and the P6 average is close to 1, that makes the ratio 2:1. That's significantly different.
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How in this universe does Harry Froling believe he has a chance to play in the NBA. Seriously, he is currently third string behind a Matt Heldt and a learning freshman in Theo John. He would not be a starting center on any BE team and after watching him play this year, he may be a second team guy on a mid major team.
I agree there are minutes to be had at the center position, but Harry is going to have to do a complete 180 just to get past MU's current guys.
Harry is, in my opinion, too soft. He needs another year living in the weight room. Even then, I do not know - based on the limited amount I have seen - that he has whatever "it" is to play physically when (and where...) he needs to.
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1 a year aint gonna hurt us. Any study will also show 95% of transfers are do to lack of playing time. So essentially losing 1 player a yr that sees the writing on the wall is not detrimental. The issue MU is dealing with right now is that we lost 3/4 of Wojos first class and the 3 were the best players in the class. So instead of having strong jun, soph, n freshman classes this yr striving for ncaas we had a strong fresh n soph class attempting to do that... aint gonna happen.
Beat DePaul 10 days ago and it happens. Just sayin'.
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Beat DePaul 10 days ago and it happens. Just sayin'.
Happens on occassion i just dont think a program of our ilk can expect to do that consistantly. If we did would that not be a testiment to the job Wojo did??
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For a school like MU to be truly good we need to get old n stay old. If Wojo is going to lose 3/4 of classes this is going to be impossible to do.
So i will give Wojo a pass to this point, however his ability to recruit and keep talent will determine how his story at MU ends. Collections of freshman and sophomores playing in Power 6 conferences with next to no junior or senior classes play innthe NIT or no tourney whatsoever (Unless ur Duke,UK, etc). Thats just the way it is. Get old n stay old Wojo, or hit the road. I hope he is incredibly successful in doing this.
I agree with this analysis.
We will always have transfers, but we also need to keep enough quality players around so that we have at least 3 or 4 upperclassmen who have experience in our system. Guys who bring both experience and continuity.
This year, we had two in Andrew and Matt. Next year - barring any transfers of core guys - we will have four in Markus, Sam, Sacar and Matt. I'd be pretty surprised if any of them leave.
There is still work to be done, but I am confident Wojo will get this sorted out.
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But the national average is about 2 guys per year. And you showed that only 19 of the power 6 schools had more than one. So my conclusion from that is that power 6 schools lose fewer players to transfers because only 25% of power 6 schools lose players at a rate equal to the national average.
If you look at the total number of P6 transfers, the average is less than 1 transfer per school in the power 6, assuming most of the schools in the multi-transfer list only lost 2 players to transfer. If that group's average comes out to 3 players per team, then the power 6 would average just over 1 player per school, but even that is still well below the national average.
That's a big assumption. I don't know how many transfers each of those schools had, but there's a good chance many of them had 3 or more. Marquette isn't on that list and had 3 last year (Sandy, Traci and Duane). That might skew your averages.
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I see your one of those "traditionals" ::)
(http://madison365.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/maxresdefault-3.jpg)
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Happens on occassion i just dont think a program of our ilk can expect to do that consistantly. If we did would that not be a testiment to the job Wojo did??
I am not sure what you mean... As DePaul is currently constructed, we should damn well beat them twice every year. There is simply no comparison between the talent levels and depth of each team.
If we are unable to do that consistently, then that would definitely be a commentary on Wojo and his running of the program.
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I am not sure what you mean... As DePaul is currently constructed, we should damn well beat them twice every year. There is simply no comparison between the talent levels and depth of each team.
If we are unable to do that consistently, then that would definitely be a commentary on Wojo and his running of the program.
What are you complaining about? We did beat them twice this year. ;)
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What are you complaining about? We did beat them twice this year. ;)
Beware 8-post guy.
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BTW, do people think that simply beating DePaul would have got them in?
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I found a source for the full transfer list from last year, and here's what I found:
- Total transfers in 2017: 883, avg of 2.52
- Power 6 transfers: 142, avg of 1.87 per school
- All other transfers: 741, avg of 2.69 per school
If this year is reasonably representative of a typical year, it does seem like power 6 schools lose fewer players to transfer. It's not the 2:1 that I had assumed earlier, but this list is much different than what was mentioned earlier.
http://www.verbalcommits.com/transfers/2017 (http://www.verbalcommits.com/transfers/2017)
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I found a source for the full transfer list from last year, and here's what I found:
- Total transfers in 2017: 883, avg of 2.52
- Power 6 transfers: 142, avg of 1.87 per school
- All other transfers: 741, avg of 2.69 per school
If this year is reasonably representative of a typical year, it does seem like power 6 schools lose fewer players to transfer. It's not the 2:1 that I had assumed earlier, but this list is much different than what was mentioned earlier.
http://www.verbalcommits.com/transfers/2017 (http://www.verbalcommits.com/transfers/2017)
So the average for a P6 school is 7.5 every four years.
Wojo has been here four years almost to the date. Transfers: Burton, Dawson, Taylor, Cohen, Carter, Wilson, Cheatham. So that's 7.
But then there is the curious case of Gabe Levin. And I don't know how you want to classify Wally.
And that assumes no transfers at the end of this year. So Wojo's rosters have been a little more unstable than the P6 average. That sounds about right to me.
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Transfers happen and that is life. As long as next guy is better, transfer away!!
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I am not sure what you mean... As DePaul is currently constructed, we should damn well beat them twice every year. There is simply no comparison between the talent levels and depth of each team.
If we are unable to do that consistently, then that would definitely be a commentary on Wojo and his running of the program.
My point is beat depaul or not we r fringe bubble which is about the best MU can hope for with a roster of this youth. Had we made the tourney i think it would have actually been a testimony to wojo n his staffs coaching
This year n anyother year mu is not going to challenge for conference titles or ncaas or second weekend of ncaas with 80% freshman n sophomores we r not arizona, duke ir kentucky
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So the average for a P6 school is 7.5 every four years.
Wojo has been here four years almost to the date. Transfers: Burton, Dawson, Taylor, Cohen, Carter, Wilson, Cheatham. So that's 7.
But then there is the curious case of Gabe Levin. And I don't know how you want to classify Wally.
And that assumes no transfers at the end of this year. So Wojo's rosters have been a little more unstable than the P6 average. That sounds about right to me.
Think is it differently as it is a more telling story as to how many players were recruit by a coach but didn’t finish.
I don’t think that it is fair to say Wojo is above the average as many of those were Buzz’s guys who had one if not both feet out before Wojo started.
Burton was depressed and needed a change of scenery. I don’t think Buzz keeps him.
Dawson never saw the floor and knew he wasn’t going to. Buzz doesn’t keep him
Taylor only stayed that extra because of Wojo.
Cohen reopened his recruitment when Buzz left. Stayed but then left.
Wilson. Buzz recruit who saw a chance to play as a grad transfer. He stayed at MU for 4 years.
A coach leaving is naturally going to increase transfers especially for those already looking.
That leaves really 4 of Wojo’s guys. I think we all agree Wally was a smart move. I think Gabe was on campus for <3 months so mistake but in June our team needed bodies.
Carter and Cheatum are on Wojo. With that lens, he has been fairly stable.
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Beware 8-post guy.
Thank you for giving me the opportunity to remind everyone that I am a 3,008 (mow 3,009) post guy who lost all his login info.
Further, to also thank you for proving that the number of posts and the quality of content is in no way correlated.