"The Last Dance" open thread

[Warrior Code]

Kobe is supposedly making his first appearance tonight. I'm excited to see what they do with his footage -- have to imagine it will be emotional for a lot of people. I'd be interested to hear if they altered Kobe's storyline at all after his death or if they left the series as-is.   

Either way, I think it will show two outstanding competitors with a lot of respect for one another.

[DegenerateDish]

If ESPN or the NBA put the Monte Carlo game on Pay Per View tomorrow and charged $60, I would toss them my wallet right now.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

A couple of observations about last night:

1. MJ really made the turn from the "fun superstar" to the "kind of a prick" between that first and third championship.  Probably was always that way but still.

2. That Knicks Game 5 ending with "poor Charles Smith" getting blocked repeatedly was ridiculously intense.  They didn't show the best part though which was Jordan and the Bulls just sprinting off the floor when it was all done.  Everyone knew the Knicks were toast at that point.

3. Could you imagine what the reaction would be if Lebron went to a casino the evening before a playoff game?

[wadesworld]

A couple of observations about last night:

1. MJ really made the turn from the "fun superstar" to the "kind of a prick" between that first and third championship.  Probably was always that way but still.

2. That Knicks Game 5 ending with "poor Charles Smith" getting blocked repeatedly was ridiculously intense.  They didn't show the best part though which was Jordan and the Bulls just sprinting off the floor when it was all done.  Everyone knew the Knicks were toast at that point.

3. Could you imagine what the reaction would be if Lebron went to a casino the evening before a playoff game?

3. Windhorst would've shut that down before it began.

[jesmu84]

A couple of observations about last night:

1. MJ really made the turn from the "fun superstar" to the "kind of a prick" between that first and third championship.  Probably was always that way but still.

2. That Knicks Game 5 ending with "poor Charles Smith" getting blocked repeatedly was ridiculously intense.  They didn't show the best part though which was Jordan and the Bulls just sprinting off the floor when it was all done.  Everyone knew the Knicks were toast at that point.

3. Could you imagine what the reaction would be if Lebron went to a casino the evening before a playoff game?

Or if LeBron played 48 holes of golf the morning of game 4 in the finals against the other teams best player?

[LloydsLegs]

Or if LeBron played 48 holes of golf the morning of game 4 in the finals against the other teams best player?

The reaction against Jordan would have been similar (but not as intense only bc of social media today, not bc it is MJ
rather than LJ) IF HE DIDN'T WIN EVERY GD PLAYOFF SERIES IN THOSE 6 YEARS.

[wadesworld]

Just listened to a podcast with the director and he is hinting that the juicy stuff is really going to start next week.  So far my takeaway is this is awesome mainly because I was only 9 years old in his last season with the Bulls so I certainly didn't appreciate what I was watching.  And I really hated him because I was still naïve enough to think my Bucks should've been awesome and didn't realize what an awful franchise they were for my entire life until the last 2 or 3 years at that point, so I hated watch him kick the Bucks' butt all the time, so seeing footage of just how damn good/dominant he was is incredible.  But there hasn't been a ton of super eye raising moments.  So far I've found how big of dicks him and Scottie were to Kucoc, for nothing Kucoc did, as the most surprising thing.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I knew that they took out their hatred of Jerry Krause on Kukoc.  I didn't know that MJ was also motivated by Krause's love of Dan Majerle as well. 

That line about Isiah was something:

"I respect Isiah Thomas’ talent. To me, the best point guard of all-time is Magic Johnson. And right behind him is Isiah Thomas. No matter how much I hate him. And I respect his game."

So with all the spinning last week that MJ never really said he didn't want Thomas on the team, it was pretty clear that MJ (and others) didn't want Thomas on the team.

[cheebs09]

Just listened to a podcast with the director and he is hinting that the juicy stuff is really going to start next week.  So far my takeaway is this is awesome mainly because I was only 9 years old in his last season with the Bulls so I certainly didn't appreciate what I was watching.  And I really hated him because I was still naïve enough to think my Bucks should've been awesome and didn't realize what an awful franchise they were for my entire life until the last 2 or 3 years at that point, so I hated watch him kick the Bucks' butt all the time, so seeing footage of just how damn good/dominant he was is incredible.  But there hasn't been a ton of super eye raising moments.  So far I've found how big of dicks him and Scottie were to Kucoc, for nothing Kucoc did, as the most surprising thing.

I did hear that it got better as it went on. I love it for a similar reason as you wades. I loved Jordan, but other than some children’s level books, I didn’t really grasp everything at the time.

I still feel like it’s missing something. I guess I was hoping for more behind the scenes videos of 98. I guess you here all these rumors and stories about how MJ was, but feels like we haven’t seen it. The cloud of MJ’s final say kind of dampens it for me.

I thought MJ played a bigger role in Isaiah and the Dream Team than the doc showed. It sounds like they glossed over his gambling a bit and lessened how bad it was.

Maybe I was just hoping for something this wasn’t meant to be. There is a lot of good behind the scenes stuff. I just feel it’s sprinkled in with a lot we already know, even for someone who was young at the time.

[MU82]

Two more very interesting episodes. I have totally enjoyed this series.

In a weird way, my respect for Jordan has increased because he allowed this warts-and-all footage to finally be aired.

[DegenerateDish]

Let's be honest, this thing should be 20 episodes, and be about the entire Bulls dynasty, and gone chronologically.

The next episode will be the most interesting to me. Besides the whole Michael playing baseball narrative, that 93/94 team without Jordan played awesome basketball. It was Pippen's best PER year, Grant's second best PER year, and I'd argue Phil Jackson's best coaching job. Call me a bitter homer, but Hue Hollins cost the Bulls at least a chance to win another title (I realize it was the east semi's against the Knicks).

[TallTitan34]

I knew that they took out their hatred of Jerry Krause on Kukoc.  I didn't know that MJ was also motivated by Krause's love of Dan Majerle as well. 

That line about Isiah was something:

"I respect Isiah Thomas’ talent. To me, the best point guard of all-time is Magic Johnson. And right behind him is Isiah Thomas. No matter how much I hate him. And I respect his game."

So with all the spinning last week that MJ never really said he didn't want Thomas on the team, it was pretty clear that MJ (and others) didn't want Thomas on the team.

Isiah dug his own grave.  Even if Jordan had no say, he had also pissed off the other top two guys in Magic and Bird.

Reminds me of Shoeless Joe in Field of Dreams when he says, "Ty Cobb wanted to play but none of us could stand the son of a bitch when we were alive, so we told him to stick it".

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Let's be honest, this thing should be 20 episodes, and be about the entire Bulls dynasty, and gone chronologically.

The next episode will be the most interesting to me. Besides the whole Michael playing baseball narrative, that 93/94 team without Jordan played awesome basketball. It was Pippen's best PER year, Grant's second best PER year, and I'd argue Phil Jackson's best coaching job. Call me a bitter homer, but Hue Hollins cost the Bulls at least a chance to win another title (I realize it was the east semi's against the Knicks).

I agree wholeheartedly.  However a Bulls victory would have deprived us of the Reggie Miller / Spike Lee showdown.

[TallTitan34]

Call me a bitter homer, but Hue Hollins cost the Bulls at least a chance to win another title (I realize it was the east semi's against the Knicks).

Also cost Scottie a lot of glory.

[StillAWarrior]

Let's be honest, this thing should be 20 episodes, and be about the entire Bulls dynasty, and gone chronologically.

Amen.  I'm really enjoying it, but find the organization distracting.  It hops all over the place again and again.  Each time they jump to something new we try to guess where they might be going next.  I'm sure that if you talked to the film-makers they could explain why they did it the way that they did, but as a viewer it drives me crazy.  There is no question that I'm enjoying it in spite of the editing and organization, not because of it.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Amen.  I'm really enjoying it, but find the organization distracting.  It hops all over the place again and again.  Each time they jump to something new we try to guess where they might be going next.  I'm sure that if you talked to the film-makers they could explain why they did it the way that they did, but as a viewer it drives me crazy.  There is no question that I'm enjoying it in spite of the editing and organization, not because of it.

What they are doing is using all the behind the scenes footage they have for the final season to build a documentary about the dynasty.  Almost everything they are using for the "retroactive looks" at previous seasons is covered through publically available footage or interviews. 

So it would be weird to do it chronologically because all the film captured from behind the scenes would only be shown in the last couple of episodes.

It definitely isn't seemless, and its easy for me to follow because I lived through it, but I understand why they chose to do it this way.

[StillAWarrior]

What they are doing is using all the behind the scenes footage they have for the final season to build a documentary about the dynasty.  Almost everything they are using for the "retroactive looks" at previous seasons is covered through publically available footage or interviews. 

So it would be weird to do it chronologically because all the film captured from behind the scenes would only be shown in the last couple of episodes.

It definitely isn't seemless, and its easy for me to follow because I lived through it, but I understand why they chose to do it this way.

I suppose that makes sense, but I find it distracting.  Last night they were last game in MSG in the throwback shoes (behind the scenes footage), so naturally we went back to the initial Nike deal.  I guess if you're trying to do a comprehensive Michael Jordan/Bulls Dynasty documentary, that stuff needs to be in there.  And if you want to build it around the unseen behind the scenes footage, you've got to jump around a lot.

[MU82]

Also cost Scottie a lot of glory.

Scottie infamously took himself out of Game 3 with 1.8 seconds left when Jackson called Kokuc's number for the decisive shot -- which Kukoc hit for the win.

Jackson's brilliance was fully on display here. First, it was a great play call -- even Pippen admitted that later. Kukoc caught the ball in stride from a place he could make the shot, and he wasn't defended the way Pippen would have been.

More important was the way Jackson handled it afterward. Rather than suspending Pippen for the insubordination or even benching him for a single game, Jackson handled it as quietly and professionally as possible, and his comments in the aftermath of the incident served to help Pippen keep his dignity. It probably would be hyperbole to say Jackson "saved Pippen's career," but he certainly played a role in Pippen not being ostracized for years.

Remember, this was 26 years ago, when coaches and players didn't see eye-to-eye as often as they do today. Many a coach would have handled it differently -- and wrong.

I honestly think Jackson is underrated as a coach, as hard as that might be to believe.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Pippen came back with a huge game in Game 4 and had that massive dunk on Ewing in Game 6 too.

[withoutbias]

A couple of observations about last night:

1. MJ really made the turn from the "fun superstar" to the "kind of a prick" between that first and third championship.  Probably was always that way but still.

2. That Knicks Game 5 ending with "poor Charles Smith" getting blocked repeatedly was ridiculously intense.  They didn't show the best part though which was Jordan and the Bulls just sprinting off the floor when it was all done.  Everyone knew the Knicks were toast at that point.

3. Could you imagine what the reaction would be if Lebron went to a casino the evening before a playoff game?

Re: 3. Could any more media possibly have squeezed into the Bulls practice gym the next day?  There wasn't any open court space while their practice was supposed to be starting.  Articles written.  Questions about it for weeks.  It probably wouldn't have been any worse.  The difference would have been that after falling behind 0-2 and being in the limelight, LeBron probably would've pouted and they would've been swept out of the series, while MJ goes out and dominates his way to a 3 peat.  But I'll give him credit.  LeBron doesn't do that stuff.  He stays out of the limelight.

Imagine if MJ would have gotten coaches fired left and right rather than being pissed Doug Collins was fired and then walking away when Phil Jackson was let go.  Blatt, Lue, and Walton fired to appease LeBron, and Spoelstra would've been too if Pat Riley wasn't possibly the one person in the NBA that will actually stand up to LeBron (which led to LeBron leaving town).

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Cant beleive no one has mentioned the glass Gatorade bottles.  Awesome to drink out of, fun to smash in the garbage after a little league game, sucked when it broke in your sports bag.

[DegenerateDish]

Cant beleive no one has mentioned the glass Gatorade bottles.  Awesome to drink out of, fun to smash in the garbage after a little league game, sucked when it broke in your sports bag.

To this day, any drink flavor, glass > plastic.

[Lennys Tap]

What they are doing is using all the behind the scenes footage they have for the final season to build a documentary about the dynasty.  Almost everything they are using for the "retroactive looks" at previous seasons is covered through publically available footage or interviews. 

So it would be weird to do it chronologically because all the film captured from behind the scenes would only be shown in the last couple of episodes.

It definitely isn't seemless, and its easy for me to follow because I lived through it, but I understand why they chose to do it this way.

Fluff,

I’m with you. I was in my 40s so I remember everything - don’t need a chronological recounting. Because of that, I’ve actually found the editing has enhanced the narrative.

[MU82]

Fluff,

I’m with you. I was in my 40s so I remember everything - don’t need a chronological recounting. Because of that, I’ve actually found the editing has enhanced the narrative.

It had to be a tremendous undertaking.

There were several ways they could have gone, and I have found the way they have gone about it to be increasingly interesting as the series has progressed.

Each episode has tried to do 3 things -- focus on an individual who was core to the dynasty; recap the Bulls' chronology since drafting Jordan; recap the way the 1997-98 season played out. So far, I have liked the way the storytellers have weaved it all together.

[dgies9156]

David Halberstam wrote a book about Michael Jordan, Playing for Keeps: Michael Jordan and the World He Made in the mid 2000s that wrote about most of the stories told in this series. In fact, it follows the Halberstam book close enough that the series could have a tag line saying "Based on the Book by David Halberstam."

The stories about Dan Majerle, about Tony Kukoc and about the visceral hatred of Jerry Krause all were covered extensively in Mr. Halberstam's book.

I think Jordan is less a jerk than a driven competitor who must win. And a guy who does not like slights either. The whole Sports Illustrated thing over the "Bag it Michael" cover is amusing if not sad. My guess is Mr. Jordan is less worried about his image now than ever before.