2019 Coaching Carousel

[Cheeks]

I agree with your first paragraph.

As for the second, I also agree and would like to add that it must be nice to work at an extremely high paying job where there’s next to no pressure to do anything other than avoid total disaster.  Good work if you can get it!

Just dumb.  No pressure, give me a break.

[Silent Verbal]

Just dumb.  No pressure, give me a break.

Zero heat from the media.  The admin loves him, by all accounts.  Not much pressure to exceed the fair to middling results we’ve seen thus far, though I’m sure he’s a competitive guy and wants to do better.

[Shooter McGavin]

Time. Few has been at Gonzaga for 30 years, 20 as head coach. Wright has been at Villanova for 18 years. Maybe if Crean stays we're at that same level. Maybe even if Buzz stays. If Wojo stays, maybe we get there in 10 years. Or maybe we reset and wait and see for 15 years with the next guy.

Hiring the right coach and retaining that coach for a couple decades is the difference.

Yes.  This is exactly right.  But people want to fire wojo with the arrow pointing up and the possibility of immediate future success breeding more sustained success.   It’s mind boggling.   

This season finished poorly with a run of losses but get some perspective.

[Cheeks]

Zero heat from the media.  The admin loves him, by all accounts.  Not much pressure to exceed the fair to middling results we’ve seen thus far, though I’m sure he’s a competitive guy and wants to do better.

Milwaukee historically isn’t a media market that calls for people’s heads.  There would be no reason to do so anyway in this situation, they aren’t as emotional as some of the posters here.

People that strive for great outcomes put pressure on themselves to succeed, Wojo is no different.

The administration loved Terri Mitchell, too, and fired her. 

The school understands what he inherited and the process / time it would take.  You guys may not like the results in the tournament, nor does Wojo, but the arc is what he is being judged on at the moment and that is nothing of the middling variety you mention.

[Cheeks]

Yes.  This is exactly right.  But people want to fire wojo with the arrow pointing up and the possibility of immediate future success breeding more sustained success.   It’s mind boggling.   

This season finished poorly with a run of losses but get some perspective.

Our fans have no patience and then they point to examples that required 3 to 5x the patience we give our own coaches. It is mind boggling. They also forget how much Zaga fans bitched about Few and Nova fans wanted Wright gone....until years later they didn’t.

[fjm]

Gonzaga "did it" by promoting an assistant, Dan Monson, and then, after he bolted for Minnesota, promoting his assistant, Mark Few. It took Monson/Few a combined 18 seasons to reach the Elite Eight and a combined 20 seasons to reach the Final Four.

Nova "did it" by hiring a mid-major guy from Hofstra (where he had a losing record after 4 seasons). It took Jay Wright 4 years at Nova to make the NCAA tourney, 4 more years to reach the Final Four, and 7 years after that -- his 15th season at the school and 22nd as a head coach -- to win the title.

So if we are to follow the Gonzaga/Villanova model, all we need to "do it" is hire either an assistant or a mid-major coach and give him time to build a great program.

What you're really saying is that you want the Gonzaga/Villanova success without having to live through the time it takes to get to that success.

Hey man, I get it. We all want a quick fix. We all want to hire the best and have him lead us to the promised land, and to do it in just a season or two.

But that is the extreme, extreme, extreme rarity. Even when a school gets fortunate enough to hire a Few or a Wright, that school has to stay patient while the program grows and blossoms.

In staying patient, a program might find out it hired the wrong guy. That happens all the time, not just at Marquette. I watched a lot of Illinois basketball; they got lucky with Self, fairly lucky with Weber, but a lot less lucky since; they saw themselves on the brink of "elite," but never quite got there. Texas Tech? Chris Beard fell into their lap; had he not been a 10-year Texas Tech assistant with family in the area, he'd be winning big at UNLV now.

We at Marquette got very, very, very, very (can I write a few more "verys"?) lucky with Al. He was a guy who had gone 13-39 his last 2 years at Belmont Freakin' Abbey. He could have sucked worse than Dukiet. But he ended up being the right mid-major (hell, not even mid-major) man for the right school at the right time.

Do I know if Wojo is the guy who will "do it" at Marquette the way it turned out that Few and Wright have done it at their schools? No I do not. But he has built some momentum, we did have a nice season, we have an even better team coming back next year. I am willing to be patient and see what it brings.

Others are not willing to be patient. They look at Gonzaga and Villanova and say, "Why not us, too?" But they don't want to hear about what it took for Gonzaga and especially Villanova to get to now. I guarantee that many Scoopers would have grumbled about hiring a guy from Hofstra and then, 3 years later, would have wanted that guy fired due to his 52-46 record (21-27 in the BEast), zero NCAA tournament appearances and 11th-place finish in his third year.

I got a real kick out of all the folks who were waxing poetic recently about Kevin Willard -- a hire from Iona who would have killed to have a first 5 seasons as good as Wojo's were.

Doc, you already have made up your mind that Wojo never should have been hired and, once hired, should have been fired long ago. That's your right as a fan, of course. I'm guessing you also felt Buzz should never have been promoted, which was also your right.

Just know that those of us who are a little more patient also very much want our Warriors to win again. I agree we can be the next Villanova if we get the right man in charge and keep him in charge for a long stretch. In my mind, we don't know yet if Wojo is the right man. In your mind, you are already positive that he is not.

I have to say that I hope I'm right on this one.

This is a home run of a reply. Well said.

[Shooter McGavin]

Can you just post this reply every time this subject comes up.  Sums up the two sides of this argument beautifully.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Zero heat from the media.  The admin loves him, by all accounts.  Not much pressure to exceed the fair to middling results we’ve seen thus far, though I’m sure he’s a competitive guy and wants to do better.

Maybe the media, admin, and everyone other than the vocal minority on scoop recognize that the results haven't been fair to middling eh?

[Billy Hoyle]

A couple of questions, Doc:

When did this "drop down" happen? When is the last time Marquette went out and hired away a highly regarded head coach from a top conference?

Answer:

Never! (Or at least never in the Al-and-beyond era.)

Al was hired from Belmont Abbey, where he was 13-39 his last two seasons. (I can practically hear the wailing that would have emanated from Scoop1964 after that hire!)

Hank was promoted from assistant.

Rick was promoted from assistant.

Dukiet was hired from St. Peters.

KO was an Arizona assistant.

Deane was hired from Siena.

Creane was a Michigan State assistant.

Buzz was promoted from assistant.

Wojo was a Duke assistant.

A bunch of assistants and mid-major coaches, starting with some clown who won 13 games in his last 2 seasons at the basketball juggernaut that was Belmont Abbey.

In other words, Doc, by your definition, Marquette has ALWAYS been a mid-major in the eyes of those who matter, hey?

Let's look at this year's Elite Eight and their coaching hires:

Duke v. MSU - K from West Point, Izzo a career assistant promoted from within
Auburn v. Kentucky - Disgraced former coach out of work for 4+ years v. established and successful head coach
UVA v. Purdue - Head coach from a Power 5 program (albeit the worst program in the worst P5 conference) v. coach in waiting promotion after 1 year HC at MVC school
Texas Tech v. Gonzaga - 1 year as HC at low major v. internal assistant hire.

Even going to the sweet 16 of the 8 teams that lost, Va Tech, UNC and Michigan had direct high major to high major hires. The others were as follows:

Oregon - mid-major (then MVC Creighton)
LSU - mid-major (A10 VCU)
Florida State - fired NBA coach (with previous college success at a high major)
Tennessee - coach fired from a high major
Houston - disgraced high major coach fired from his previous job

High major to high major moves are pretty rare, often there is some preexisting relationship that spurs the move.  Most go the assistant or low to mid major route when hiring. And don't forget, we had high major coaches beating down the door for the job - Cuanzo (Cal), Howland (fired from UCLA) and Weber (K State).

[jesmu84]

Gonzaga "did it" by promoting an assistant, Dan Monson, and then, after he bolted for Minnesota, promoting his assistant, Mark Few. It took Monson/Few a combined 18 seasons to reach the Elite Eight and a combined 20 seasons to reach the Final Four.

Nova "did it" by hiring a mid-major guy from Hofstra (where he had a losing record after 4 seasons). It took Jay Wright 4 years at Nova to make the NCAA tourney, 4 more years to reach the Final Four, and 7 years after that -- his 15th season at the school and 22nd as a head coach -- to win the title.

So if we are to follow the Gonzaga/Villanova model, all we need to "do it" is hire either an assistant or a mid-major coach and give him time to build a great program.

What you're really saying is that you want the Gonzaga/Villanova success without having to live through the time it takes to get to that success.

Hey man, I get it. We all want a quick fix. We all want to hire the best and have him lead us to the promised land, and to do it in just a season or two.

But that is the extreme, extreme, extreme rarity. Even when a school gets fortunate enough to hire a Few or a Wright, that school has to stay patient while the program grows and blossoms.

In staying patient, a program might find out it hired the wrong guy. That happens all the time, not just at Marquette. I watched a lot of Illinois basketball; they got lucky with Self, fairly lucky with Weber, but a lot less lucky since; they saw themselves on the brink of "elite," but never quite got there. Texas Tech? Chris Beard fell into their lap; had he not been a 10-year Texas Tech assistant with family in the area, he'd be winning big at UNLV now.

We at Marquette got very, very, very, very (can I write a few more "verys"?) lucky with Al. He was a guy who had gone 13-39 his last 2 years at Belmont Freakin' Abbey. He could have sucked worse than Dukiet. But he ended up being the right mid-major (hell, not even mid-major) man for the right school at the right time.

Do I know if Wojo is the guy who will "do it" at Marquette the way it turned out that Few and Wright have done it at their schools? No I do not. But he has built some momentum, we did have a nice season, we have an even better team coming back next year. I am willing to be patient and see what it brings.

Others are not willing to be patient. They look at Gonzaga and Villanova and say, "Why not us, too?" But they don't want to hear about what it took for Gonzaga and especially Villanova to get to now. I guarantee that many Scoopers would have grumbled about hiring a guy from Hofstra and then, 3 years later, would have wanted that guy fired due to his 52-46 record (21-27 in the BEast), zero NCAA tournament appearances and 11th-place finish in his third year.

I got a real kick out of all the folks who were waxing poetic recently about Kevin Willard -- a hire from Iona who would have killed to have a first 5 seasons as good as Wojo's were.

Doc, you already have made up your mind that Wojo never should have been hired and, once hired, should have been fired long ago. That's your right as a fan, of course. I'm guessing you also felt Buzz should never have been promoted, which was also your right.

Just know that those of us who are a little more patient also very much want our Warriors to win again. I agree we can be the next Villanova if we get the right man in charge and keep him in charge for a long stretch. In my mind, we don't know yet if Wojo is the right man. In your mind, you are already positive that he is not.

I have to say that I hope I'm right on this one.

This is so good. Needs to be pinned to the top

[Cheeks]

Gonzaga "did it" by promoting an assistant, Dan Monson, and then, after he bolted for Minnesota, promoting his assistant, Mark Few. It took Monson/Few a combined 18 seasons to reach the Elite Eight and a combined 20 seasons to reach the Final Four.

Nova "did it" by hiring a mid-major guy from Hofstra (where he had a losing record after 4 seasons). It took Jay Wright 4 years at Nova to make the NCAA tourney, 4 more years to reach the Final Four, and 7 years after that -- his 15th season at the school and 22nd as a head coach -- to win the title.

So if we are to follow the Gonzaga/Villanova model, all we need to "do it" is hire either an assistant or a mid-major coach and give him time to build a great program.

What you're really saying is that you want the Gonzaga/Villanova success without having to live through the time it takes to get to that success.

Hey man, I get it. We all want a quick fix. We all want to hire the best and have him lead us to the promised land, and to do it in just a season or two.

But that is the extreme, extreme, extreme rarity. Even when a school gets fortunate enough to hire a Few or a Wright, that school has to stay patient while the program grows and blossoms.

In staying patient, a program might find out it hired the wrong guy. That happens all the time, not just at Marquette. I watched a lot of Illinois basketball; they got lucky with Self, fairly lucky with Weber, but a lot less lucky since; they saw themselves on the brink of "elite," but never quite got there. Texas Tech? Chris Beard fell into their lap; had he not been a 10-year Texas Tech assistant with family in the area, he'd be winning big at UNLV now.

We at Marquette got very, very, very, very (can I write a few more "verys"?) lucky with Al. He was a guy who had gone 13-39 his last 2 years at Belmont Freakin' Abbey. He could have sucked worse than Dukiet. But he ended up being the right mid-major (hell, not even mid-major) man for the right school at the right time.

Do I know if Wojo is the guy who will "do it" at Marquette the way it turned out that Few and Wright have done it at their schools? No I do not. But he has built some momentum, we did have a nice season, we have an even better team coming back next year. I am willing to be patient and see what it brings.

Others are not willing to be patient. They look at Gonzaga and Villanova and say, "Why not us, too?" But they don't want to hear about what it took for Gonzaga and especially Villanova to get to now. I guarantee that many Scoopers would have grumbled about hiring a guy from Hofstra and then, 3 years later, would have wanted that guy fired due to his 52-46 record (21-27 in the BEast), zero NCAA tournament appearances and 11th-place finish in his third year.

I got a real kick out of all the folks who were waxing poetic recently about Kevin Willard -- a hire from Iona who would have killed to have a first 5 seasons as good as Wojo's were.

Doc, you already have made up your mind that Wojo never should have been hired and, once hired, should have been fired long ago. That's your right as a fan, of course. I'm guessing you also felt Buzz should never have been promoted, which was also your right.

Just know that those of us who are a little more patient also very much want our Warriors to win again. I agree we can be the next Villanova if we get the right man in charge and keep him in charge for a long stretch. In my mind, we don't know yet if Wojo is the right man. In your mind, you are already positive that he is not.

I have to say that I hope I'm right on this one.

Solid.  And for the record Mike, I get it and why we have done it year after year.  My point has been there is more risk that comes with doing it that way and I'd like to cut down on the risk.  That said, I get why we have done it and will likely continue to do it.

[muguru]

Wojo has been here 5 years now...has nothing to show for it. Instead of comparing to other Coaches at other programs...let's compare him to the two previous Coaches at MU in the same time frame..That seems more than fair(though many won't want to talk about this or use some excuse). By year 4, Crean had MU in a Final Four and had won a Conference championship.

By year Four Buzz had MU in a sweet sixteen, and by year have a conference championship, and an Elite 8.

Both with conference titles, and minimum of second weekend appearances in the tournament by year 4.

In 5 years Wojo has....well...uhhh...let's see he's got...well sh*t..Ummm...Ohhhhh I got it...he has two NCAA tourney blowouts! That's what it was..I was having a hard time remembering all the memorable achievements he's had these past 5 years.

Point being...if Buzz and Crean could accomplish what they did...AT THE SAME school where Wojo Coaches..why should Wojo be given a "break"?? They did it(which proves it can be done at MU), yet, you all fawn all over Wojo like his accomplishments have been spectacular. Why hasn't Wojo done the same?? Seems reasonable to expect that, doesn't it?? after all, there's a track record based off the previous two Coaches.

*here come the Wojo apologists and the Excuses, even though my FACTS just took them all behind the woodshed..Not really defendable in Wojo's favor*

[Oldgym]

*here come the Wojo apologists and the Excuses, even though my FACTS just took them all behind the woodshed..Not really defendable in Wojo's favor*

So you've won the argument? Then why are you still arguing?

[Pakuni]

Wojo has been here 5 years now...has nothing to show for it. Instead of comparing to other Coaches at other programs...let's compare him to the two previous Coaches at MU in the same time frame..That seems more than fair(though many won't want to talk about this or use some excuse). By year 4, Crean had MU in a Final Four and had won a Conference championship.

By year Four Buzz had MU in a sweet sixteen, and by year have a conference championship, and an Elite 8.

Both with conference titles, and minimum of second weekend appearances in the tournament by year 4.

In 5 years Wojo has....well...uhhh...let's see he's got...well sh*t..Ummm...Ohhhhh I got it...he has two NCAA tourney blowouts! That's what it was..I was having a hard time remembering all the memorable achievements he's had these past 5 years.

Point being...if Buzz and Crean could accomplish what they did...AT THE SAME school where Wojo Coaches..why should Wojo be given a "break"?? They did it(which proves it can be done at MU), yet, you all fawn all over Wojo like his accomplishments have been spectacular. Why hasn't Wojo done the same?? Seems reasonable to expect that, doesn't it?? after all, there's a track record based off the previous two Coaches.

*here come the Wojo apologists and the Excuses, even though my FACTS just took them all behind the woodshed..Not really defendable in Wojo's favor*

A few questions, guru:
1. Do you believe anything you say here will change the minds of those who disagrees with you?
2. Is there anything that someone who disagrees with you can say that will change your mind?
3. If the answer to those questions is "no," why do you continue to beat a horse that's as dead as anything that's ever been dead?

[TSmith34, Inc.]

*here come the Wojo apologists and the Excuses, even though my FACTS just took them all behind the woodshed..Not really defendable in Wojo's favor*

Oh, good lord, what a dope.

[Pakuni]

Stan reads Scoop:

 Stan Johnson @MUCoachJohnson
Congrats to our friends the @Bucks what a difference a year makes! Better yet, what a difference 5 years make. It’s been fun to watch the entire organization grow and improve over time. The things that last the longest, take the longest to develop! #mubb is behind you! #process

[MU82]

Wojo has been here 5 years now...has nothing to show for it. Instead of comparing to other Coaches at other programs...let's compare him to the two previous Coaches at MU in the same time frame..That seems more than fair(though many won't want to talk about this or use some excuse). By year 4, Crean had MU in a Final Four and had won a Conference championship.

By year Four Buzz had MU in a sweet sixteen, and by year have a conference championship, and an Elite 8.

Both with conference titles, and minimum of second weekend appearances in the tournament by year 4.

In 5 years Wojo has....well...uhhh...let's see he's got...well sh*t..Ummm...Ohhhhh I got it...he has two NCAA tourney blowouts! That's what it was..I was having a hard time remembering all the memorable achievements he's had these past 5 years.

Point being...if Buzz and Crean could accomplish what they did...AT THE SAME school where Wojo Coaches..why should Wojo be given a "break"?? They did it(which proves it can be done at MU), yet, you all fawn all over Wojo like his accomplishments have been spectacular. Why hasn't Wojo done the same?? Seems reasonable to expect that, doesn't it?? after all, there's a track record based off the previous two Coaches.

*here come the Wojo apologists and the Excuses, even though my FACTS just took them all behind the woodshed..Not really defendable in Wojo's favor*

I shouldn't even dignify this Rant #9477 of yours with a response, but ...

How 'bout this ... maybe Wojo isn't quite as good a coach at this stage of his career as Crean and Buzz were.

If I admit that -- and I'm only admitting to "maybe" -- then what solution would you suggest right here and right now, guru? If you were the MU president, you would fire Wojo today? And then what?

Let's hear your "solution," guru. And make it realistic, please. Neither Tony Bennett nor Chris Beard nor John Calipari is walking through that door.

[Cheeks]

Wojo has been here 5 years now...has nothing to show for it. Instead of comparing to other Coaches at other programs...let's compare him to the two previous Coaches at MU in the same time frame..That seems more than fair(though many won't want to talk about this or use some excuse). By year 4, Crean had MU in a Final Four and had won a Conference championship.

By year Four Buzz had MU in a sweet sixteen, and by year have a conference championship, and an Elite 8.

Both with conference titles, and minimum of second weekend appearances in the tournament by year 4.

In 5 years Wojo has....well...uhhh...let's see he's got...well sh*t..Ummm...Ohhhhh I got it...he has two NCAA tourney blowouts! That's what it was..I was having a hard time remembering all the memorable achievements he's had these past 5 years.

Point being...if Buzz and Crean could accomplish what they did...AT THE SAME school where Wojo Coaches..why should Wojo be given a "break"?? They did it(which proves it can be done at MU), yet, you all fawn all over Wojo like his accomplishments have been spectacular. Why hasn't Wojo done the same?? Seems reasonable to expect that, doesn't it?? after all, there's a track record based off the previous two Coaches.

*here come the Wojo apologists and the Excuses, even though my FACTS just took them all behind the woodshed..Not really defendable in Wojo's favor*

Nothing to show for it?  Just stop.  The last three years, three post season bids, two of them NCAA bids.  Those are something. You may not like the outcomes, including losing to one team that went to the Final Four, but they are something.

A kid that became AP 2nd Team All American and Finalist for Wooden Award.  That is something

Highest attendance in years, first time ever in top 10 attendance.  That is something.

Etc, etc

Just stop

 

[MrCNote]

A few questions, guru:
1. Do you believe anything you say here will change the minds of those who disagrees with you?
2. Is there anything that someone who disagrees with you can say that will change your mind?
3. If the answer to those questions is "no," why do you continue to beat a horse that's as dead as anything that's ever been dead?

Because Guru is a one trick pony!!!Repeat..repeat… repeat.. Maybe then some one will believe him.

[21Jumpstreet]

Stan reads Scoop:

 Stan Johnson @MUCoachJohnson
Congrats to our friends the @Bucks what a difference a year makes! Better yet, what a difference 5 years make. It’s been fun to watch the entire organization grow and improve over time. The things that last the longest, take the longest to develop! #mubb is behind you! #process

The day you plant the seed is not the day you eat the fruit.

[StillAWarrior]

...you all fawn all over Wojo...

I don't think that phrase means what you think it means.  Even the people on this board who are supporting Wojo -- and I generally would place myself in that category -- have expressed a fair amount of concern.  My read on the situation is that a lot of people feel the same way I feel:  over all a pretty good season; disastrous end; trending in the right direction; hasn't done anything warranting being fired; outlook for next year looks good on paper; he needs to get better.  None of that is even remotely close to "fawning all over Wojo" in my opinion.

[texaswarrior74]

Wojo has been here 5 years now...has nothing to show for it. Instead of comparing to other Coaches at other programs...let's compare him to the two previous Coaches at MU in the same time frame..That seems more than fair(though many won't want to talk about this or use some excuse). By year 4, Crean had MU in a Final Four and had won a Conference championship.

By year Four Buzz had MU in a sweet sixteen, and by year have a conference championship, and an Elite 8.



Both with conference titles, and minimum of second weekend appearances in the tournament by year 4.

In 5 years Wojo has....well...uhhh...let's see he's got...well sh*t..Ummm...Ohhhhh I got it...he has two NCAA tourney blowouts! That's what it was..I was having a hard time remembering all the memorable achievements he's had these past 5 years.

Point being...if Buzz and Crean could accomplish what they did...AT THE SAME school where Wojo Coaches..why should Wojo be given a "break"?? They did it(which proves it can be done at MU), yet, you all fawn all over Wojo like his accomplishments have been spectacular. Why hasn't Wojo done the same?? Seems reasonable to expect that, doesn't it?? after all, there's a track record based off the previous two Coaches.

*here come the Wojo apologists and the Excuses, even though my FACTS just took them all behind the woodshed..Not really defendable in Wojo's favor*

Are we somehow forgetting that Crean was fortunate to have D Wade fall into his lap as a partial qualifier- something that doesn’t exist any more for many reasons. Without that I seriously doubt he has the success he did in such a short time.

[muguru]

I shouldn't even dignify this Rant #9477 of yours with a response, but ...

How 'bout this ... maybe Wojo isn't quite as good a coach at this stage of his career as Crean and Buzz were.

If I admit that -- and I'm only admitting to "maybe" -- then what solution would you suggest right here and right now, guru? If you were the MU president, you would fire Wojo today? And then what?

Let's hear your "solution," guru. And make it realistic, please. Neither Tony Bennett nor Chris Beard nor John Calipari is walking through that door.

Thad Matta...end of discussion.

[muguru]

Nothing to show for it?  Just stop.  The last three years, three post season bids, two of them NCAA bids.  Those are something. You may not like the outcomes, including losing to one team that went to the Final Four, but they are something.

A kid that became AP 2nd Team All American and Finalist for Wooden Award.  That is something

Highest attendance in years, first time ever in top 10 attendance.  That is something.

Etc, etc

Just stop

Game...set...match...guru. That one's deep and not playable. Great job avoiding answering why TC and Buzz were where they were at MU after year 5, but Wojo couldn't match that??

Trust me..we are going to find out just how good of a Coach Wojo really is next year. Could be ugly.

[Billy Hoyle]

Are we somehow forgetting that Crean was fortunate to have D Wade fall into his lap as a partial qualifier- something that doesn’t exist any more for many reasons. Without that I seriously doubt he has the success he did in such a short time.

"fall into his lap?" Crean went to the mat for Wade and got MU to accept him whereas in the past they would not have done so. It's not like Wade was some unknown kid in rural Alaska that Crean just happened to find on vacation or that Wade just happened to show up in his office one day and ask if he could be on the team, as Rony Seikaly did at Syracuse.